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CD Projekt Red Shouldn't Waste Cyberpunk 2077's Night City

We really don't need a whole new map for every single game.

41 Comments

When it comes to open-world video games, we've been all over the world and across the multiverse, from the relatively small cities of Skyrim to the vastness of Los Santos and Assassin's Creed's take on Paris. One of the biggest games in this space, though, needs to take a page from one of the most compact. That is, as CD Projekt Red looks to the future of the Cyberpunk series, it should look to Like a Dragon--formerly called Yakuza in Western territories--and its hyper-detailed world of Kamurocho.

Sega and its RGG Studios team have been developing this series since the release of the original entry in the early 2000s. They looked at Tokyo's red light district, Kabukicho, and brought it to life in startling detail--you can quite literally navigate your way around Kabukicho if you know the Kamurocho map well enough. Including the Like a Dragon main series, its spin-off games, and the two Judgment games, there are at least 15 games set primarily or partially in Kamurocho.

CD Projekt Red announced Cyberpunk 2077 in 2012, and then unveiled the game--or something intended to look like it--in 2018. The game finally released in 2020, and received its massive 2.0 overhaul update in 2023. When you look at the resulting game, it's easy to see where a lot of that time was spent. Night City and its outlying areas make for some of the most expansive and detailed areas you can explore in a video game. In terms of first-person games, Cyberpunk makes its next-nearest siblings like Fallout and Elder Scrolls look sparse in comparison. If we factor in third-person games, it's only when we look at Assassin's Creed's version of Paris and GTA V's Los Santos that we see comparatively vast and detailed cities.

Night City
Night City

The team at CD Projekt Red clearly spent a massive amount of time developing Night City. Even after two playthroughs of Cyberpunk 2077--one at launch and one after Phantom Liberty's release--totaling over 200 hours, I feel like I haven't even scratched the surface of Night City. It was only when I began to complete all of the NCPD Scanner Hustles in the game that I felt like I was truly exploring Night City. Those miniature distractions will take you into the deepest and darkest corners of the city, giving you an excuse to see what's behind and underneath the city's towering skyscrapers. And you know what? There's a ton of stuff there.

Here's where the two games meet: RGG Studios has reused Kamurocho, tweaking its look and feel but keeping much of its structure. As a longtime fan of the series, I feel like I've been able to watch this little district in Tokyo evolve and change as if it was a real place. Every few years we come back, and a few things have changed. Some shops are different. Maybe a skyscraper blew up. A building that once housed a flourishing yakuza business has locked doors. It's allowed me to develop a real ongoing relationship with the city, and I want CD Projekt Red to do exactly the same with Night City.

Efficiencity

Kamurocho
Kamurocho

First and foremost, it's just smart use of resources. With a place the team has spent so much time building, why use it only once?

For all the bespoke areas available in the first game, there are entire city blocks that you just pass through on your way to something important. You might visit a couple of them on foot early on, but after that, it's all driving and fast travel. In Night City, the brunt of the work has been done; the city is there. Why should we only visit it once?

While it's not the only location for this franchise to take us to, Night City's certainly a massive center of this world in the same way that Los Angeles is in 2024. We should be going back in the sequel, even if that's not where we spend all of our time. What does the city look like after Jefferson Peralez is elected mayor? How does Arasaka, a major tenant in the city, change Night City after its new CEO--who could change depending on which path you take--takes their seat? Or if we went back in time, to the distant future of 2024, what does Night City look like when it's just 30 years old?

There are countless stories that CD Projekt Red could explore in Night City, or that other developers could explore, Fallout: New Vegas-style. Why re-do all the work of building a new, different place, when so much of this current one is ripe for additional development?

Thanks for the memories

Night City
Night City

As you explore Night City with a new character, inside a new story, you'd remember the places you visited as V. I blew up a car with Kerry Eurodyne at this bus stop! Misty read my tarot here!

That's part of what makes Kamurocho such an important place for Like a Dragon fans. As Kiryu, Majima, or Ichiban, we've made countless memories. We remember when Majima popped out of a manhole cover on Tenkaichi Street. We remember when Kiryu got talked into acting in a commercial around the corner from a Smile Burger. Or when he ordered literally everything on the menu at Kanrai.

While some will cry foul at the idea of re-using an existing map as being "lazy," fans of the Like a Dragon series know that revisiting a city like this transforms it from a simple backdrop and into a living, evolving place. You don't have to shoehorn in recurring characters when they would already be there. You also get to have emotional moments that you've earned with your players just by placing important story moments around the city. Who isn't going to find an excuse to revisit the rooftop above Misty's Esoterica to see what kind of memorial there might be to Jackie Welles? Who isn't going to visit Afterlife and order a drink called V?

Of course, we want to go elsewhere, and the Like a Dragon games do that, too. We've spent time in Okinawa, Osaka, Nagano, Yokohama, and elsewhere throughout the series, and those places, too, have grown with time. In Cyberpunk 2077, we get a glimpse of a very different East Coast in one ending, for example. We get references to cities like Tokyo, countries like Brazil. It would be fun to explore these! But Night City should act as the center of the Cyberpunk world: a place we return to over and over.

More. Now. Please.

Kamurocho
Kamurocho

There's also a greedy element to this. We had to wait eight-plus years to play Cyberpunk. In the time between the 2012 announcement and the 2023 update, we got Yakuza 5, 6, 0, Kiwami, Kiwami 2, Like a Dragon, The Man Who Erased His Name, and Ishin, among others.

More and more, the video game market is showing that long development cycles on mega-sized games are unsustainable. Cyberpunk 2077 itself was a victim of this. Developers inside knew the game wasn't ready, but between continuing development costs and pushes from investors (and executives eager to please those investors), CD Projekt Red released the game too soon. Now, though, CD Projekt Red has a popular IP established in Cyberpunk 2077. It has a great sandbox in Night City.

Instead of taking another eight years to bring us the next game, it should focus on telling us new stories about new characters in a familiar, evolving space.

Eric Frederiksen on Google+

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gunnyninja

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I played Elex and Elex 2. They are both set in the same place, yet, the sequel is barely recognizable to me. Places that I had been before did not feel the same. I suppose I will have to go back to the first one to see why. But the idea of reusing the map is why I never wanted to play Far Cry New Dawn.

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ganondorf77

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Whaaat, this article is wrong. WTF, you are trying to legitimize live service games?. Every single game needs a new map, period. WTF.

The only legit way is to add expansions (NOT DLCs) to keep on with the same map (and even in this case sometimes it's better to expand). DLCs have a hidden potential to be pure spam, the concept is perverse, it's perverted and corrupt. We should never use it. Expansions on the other hand should double the game length for half the price (or in huge games like cdpr games, 20-30h is fine enough), and cdpr is extremely honest and fair with this dlc/expansion issue.

Any other way of seeing this is legitimizing dishonest business models. The fact that this article is written by a self-called gamer... pfff what a pity.

The case of cp2077 in particular is kinda different because of the massive failure at start that canceled possible future expansions. And that's it. We are lucky to have at least 1. You cannot take cp2077 as an example. CDPR is one of the few companies with the balls to say: let's scrap everything, clean slate. But it's just because the context, nothing more. If it happened to be a blast since day one a couple of expansions might have happened or even 3 (at most that for sure). But we have what we have and that's it. CDPR is an example like no other of good fair pro-gaming pro-industry decisions (Being EA Ubi Activision Konami Bethesda Blizz etc the exact opposite).

Whatever.

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Bamda

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I have zero problem with that idea. I love Night city.

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SpaceManLegend

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I think the 3 very successful Spider-Man games prove this article's point. I would play a new or spinoff Spider-Man story in that same city in a heartbeat. Dev time is only increasing as expectation for higher fidelity graphics and story grow. An obvious way to compromise is to reuse assets wherever possible. I think CP's Night City is the most interesting open world I've played in so far and a lot of that is down to the excellent characters that inhabit it. I'd love to see where they've ended up and who else we can get into trouble with.

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SebB

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I think maybe another story dlc.

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AlleDragonfyre

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Edited By AlleDragonfyre

Agreed! Whatever the new platform is, please keep Night City, Night City!

No one is saying to keep the same engine and build on it. I think we're trying to say we want the original Night City on the new engine. Recreate our home in this new platform, please!

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SebB

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@alledragonfyre: porting an entire game world to another engine will take many years and a lot of money. Only worth it if they can get several games worth out of it. I say this as a software engineer who has programmed game engines from scratch before.

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AlleDragonfyre

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Edited By AlleDragonfyre

@sebb: you don't think they're going to do that with Cyberpunk 2? Are we just going to float around in the air with no world to explore? All the request was is to recreate Night City as it was laid out in 2077. Why would they not do this? How is it at all simpler to rebuild a city, a new and completely different city, than the one that already exists as a point of reference? Why would you spend all that effort to alienate your fan base by removing the world everyone knows and loves? Sounds like a lot of extra design work to make people unhappy.

Also, I'm aware that there is no "import' function in a new engine as a rule. But having a reference point is way better than going back to square one with concepts only.

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SebB

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@alledragonfyre: I wasn't saying they won't do it, just that it will take a few years, and that it would have to be worth it financially for them (getting more than one game's worth out of it). Which clearly they have decided it is, as they have decided to do it.

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SpaceManLegend

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@sebb: That's not actually the case. The world assets and textures weren't designed in Red Engine. Having all of the models and textures already created, would save years, even if moving to a new engine. Fleshing out the city is where they could focus most of their time. Adding interiors and missions or job systems to go with them.

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SebB

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@spacemanlegend: it's not as simple as click "import existing assets". Objects are made up of not just textures but attributes and methods that are specific to the engine they were developed on. That will not be the same in a different engine. Therefore the entire world has to be redone, except the textures already exist. Which will speed up development but there would still be considerable work to be done.

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SpaceManLegend

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@sebb: No one said it would be easy. I only said that you were incorrect. But it seems like you halfway agree but half disagree in an attempt to still be right somehow. But facts are facts, regardless of how you try to spin them. I'll simply say good luck to you, hope you figure things out!

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SebB

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@spacemanlegend: this is what my original comment said, scroll up and see it for yourself:

"porting an entire game world to another engine will take many years and a lot of money. Only worth it if they can get several games worth out of it. I say this as a software engineer who has programmed game engines from scratch before."

How is this wrong and not fact?

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SpaceManLegend

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@sebb: I had no idea that industry experience could lead to such counter intuitive insights. Guess there's certain things you just can't know until the curtain is pulled back.

What games did you work on and what was your specific focus?

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SebB

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@spacemanlegend said:

@sebb: I had no idea that industry experience could lead to such counter intuitive insights. Guess there's certain things you just can't know until the curtain is pulled back.

What games did you work on and what was your specific focus?

In game programming, you have assets (textures, audio, etc.), that are used by the game engine. Those assets can be used by another game engine but to use them, you would have to reprogram all the 3D models and levels that existed in the previous game engine. And that takes years.

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SpaceManLegend

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@sebb: it would still be faster than creating all the models and textures from scratch.

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SebB

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@spacemanlegend: I did not work on any mainstream game. I'm a software engineer who has built in-house 2D game engines from scratch.

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Bakula

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No it shouldn’t go to waste. Third-person thanks.

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Hamwise666

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I think they need to rebuild Night City.

The primary reason is the driving.

As CDPR had never done a driving based game before the entire map of night city kind of sucks for driving: narrow roads, overly tight turns, unusable off-road space. This would not improve if they reused the asset. The insights they've gained from a couple of years of supporting the game will help them design a new Night City that is fun to drive in, including cool drops and jumps that the current game has zero of. Sure, there are places to jump a car but none of them were designed as such; just a happenstance.

That doesn't mean they can't reuse some assets to shorten development: Megabuildings and the main corporate towers, for example. Those could be fleshed out.

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fbplayer1086

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In general I completely disagree with the premise of this article that games should keep reusing the same map. Funny enough even the Yakuza series proves that gamers want new maps as LaD 8 is easily the best selling entry in the series and introduces a huge new map.

As for night city I can see another game set there because the city is beautiful, but very lifeless and not much to do. If they could expand the interactivity and include generous side content like LaD or GTA has I'd be cool with the same city for the next game.

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Willhouse4

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I loved Cyberpunk, and I feel like they could squeeze a few more games out of the current Night City map. For example, the Netflix anime could possibly have been a game instead. I'm not sure if you call that an expansion or a sequel though.

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wr3zzz

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So basically you want us to pay full prices for expansion or DLC efforts if they just call it something else?

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AlleDragonfyre

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@wr3zzz: I think they want Night City rebuilt on the new engine. Not keep it the same.

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Afamkingo

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@wr3zzz: no they're saying you dont need an entirely different map. Which you dont. Night city is cyberpunk. You just reinvent the city, we've barely scratched the surface of night city. They absolutely can use it again. The timeline for the game is important as well. Cities grow and change...

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wr3zzz

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Edited By wr3zzz

@afamkingo: The author literally said in the end of the article that he prefers the model of 4 games using the same assets within a 7 year window instead of one AAA original game plus expansions. It's pretty much the same effort but the developer gets to charge 4 full price games instead one full price game plus 2-3 expansions at lower prices.

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Wraith3

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I agree. There's so much they could open up with building interiors that it would feel new even if we know the city. The environment in this game is great, just flesh it out a little more in the next game.

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deactivated-65c42a53986b7

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No way. One of the main criticisms of the Yakuza series is how different games in the series feel way too similar. The main reason I couldn't get into TOTK was the because I'd already been to everything and it was essentially the same. The magic of discovery felt gone. Using the same map instantly brought that game from a 10 to a 7 for me and I just find it a chore to slowly trudge through the same crap I saw over and over 6 years ago. I cannot understand how the complete lack of graphical upgrades (the original was designed for the damn Wii U!) and the reuse of literally every map and asset didn't get called out in reviews and hurt its score. Its a freaking game about exploration and they re-released the same mfing map. Such a damn criminally overrated (but good) game. It's absolutely ridiculous what reviewers let nintendo get away with there and so so so many people hate that they used the same map and reviewers somehow seemed to not mind at all. If a Far Cry or AC game had done this you all would have crucified them.

Is map size really such a big issue for devs compared to other aspects of development? TOTK is the only example of straight up reusing a map and I think it was an extremely lazy money grab by them. It took them 6 years to make BOTW and then it somehow took them 6 more years to make TOTK despite reusing the entire map with a few tweaks and reusing pretty much everything else from animations to assets to UI. And they are Nintendo. That makes me think the map isn't the biggest deal. AC and Far Cry games are churned out constantly with huge maps. Procedural generation and game engines have made making large outdoor maps pretty trivial.

The main draw of open world games is the freedom of exploration and I sure as hell don't want to explore the same map in the sequel.

Focus on density and interactivity over size in game maps? For sure.

Reusing the same map for a sequel years later? That's just boring and lazy.

So many open world games have endless uninspired areas with boring geography and nothing to do so that they can say the map is big.

Also they didn't actually start fully developing CP 2077 until blood and wine was finished in 2016. 2012 is just when they started promoting the game to get traction. They were still making The Withcher 3 then.

CD Project managed to make new maps for Blood and Wine and Phantom Liberty and both expansions would have been way way way less interesting if theyd just stuck them in the old game worlds.

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Tiwill44

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@bren7473: It's pretty wild how refusing to lower our standards is now considered a bad take or unhinged. People actively trying to make us accept copy-pasted game worlds as the norm.

You've hit the nail on the head when talking about exploration and discovery being the main appeal of open worlds. We barely have level design in these games, and now they want to take away the feeling of discovery too?

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esqueejy

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@Tiwill44: Nah, it's just that there's a practical reality to deal with and these extremely long development cycles kill games, kill profit margins, kill peoples' careers, kill peoples' home lives and, for most developers, the article is correct that it is unsustainable as a business model/industry model. Overlong development cycles also exacerbate the feedback loop of unrealistic expectations being disappointed when the product is released, causing major backlash, internet tantrums and gaming community division. You can see the set up already in this thread, with people already manufacturing pre-justifications for going ballistic.

It's not about lowering standards. Games should work, not be buggy messes, have good stories, good gameplay mechanics, all of that. It's more about expectations becoming completely hyperbolic in terms of what it is actually reasonable to expect most developers to deliver.

That being said, CDPR is one of the best and that lends itself to justifiably high expectations...but some of the shit people demand is out of whack and their emotionally charged and instantly infantile reactions to any suggestion that what they demand may not be forthcoming come close to being DSM-V material.

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Afamkingo

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@bren7473: the amount of bad takes in one comment man.

Night city is cyberpunk, it wont look the same. Just like vice city wont look like gta 6.

It might not have been in full development but that doesn't mean it wasn't being heavily worked on. You still have to build the foundations and groundwork, story, characters and art design.

As for huge maps. They do take time, alot of time... it just depends how they are made, how much care and detail is put into making the map.

Assasins creeds churn out these worlds because they have several studios and each one works on a game with 4-5 years of development. Its not as if the maps made in a year before the next release. A bad example as well as they're bland and lifeless. Night city has insane potential, just look what they did with dogtown and imagine a whole city with that much density. The games not going to be around until close to 2030 anyway. It will be hugely different with some obvious nods and locations from the previous games littered around.

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Jarrkha

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Entire city blocks that can't be traveled to in addition to scores of buildings that can't be accessed or entered?

Additionally, consider many of the major inanimate objects of the city itself not as interactive -- in an era of open-world games where we should very soon focus less on gfx and visual corpuscular/granular detail, but more on logistical details (layouts/geography) and asset behaviours? (Except for sands, some rocks and other natural textures.... For the love of God, devs, even games being published in 2024 have grounds that look like mush or toy plastics. Keep pushing graphics for those).

Yes, there's tons of potential virtual places in Night City, ripe for the taking, that could make a sequel rife with "content." Absolutely would've made CP2077 better tbw if it had focused a little less on visuals and tech.

However, it's more important that they have a pipeline and system ready for the next game, which is at least half of the essential argument you've made. The layout is there; nuanced tweaks to an existing template and urban expertise could make obsolete the act of handcrafting a new city layout from scratch. In addition a pipeline for asset creation itself - a fast way to build buildings and such. They already have modern urban architecture down pat.

If I'm not mistaken, one COULD think that because they are switching to UE5 that they've rendered existing pipelines a bit moot, but UE5 has Nanite and other methods for expediting raw development. I guess in this day and age it's tedious to craft variations of bricks, concrete, grass, etc.

Anyway, good read.

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Dushness

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They finally made it amazing and people wanting more, but its over...

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ItsNotA2Mer

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This game is so awesome now. I'm definitely ready for more.

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TeshamMutna

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Edited By TeshamMutna

They should add more districts and increase the number of enterable buildings

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Tiwill44

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I guess if half of this console generation's library is going to be remasters anyway, might as well copy-paste every map for actual sequels too. Seems like it worked for Zelda. GTA 6 should just use the map from Vice City. Elden Ring 2 should just be The Lands Between again but with sky dungeons and more recycled bosses in them.

In fact I've got an even better idea: every game should just be an asset flip that reuses the soundtrack from the previous game. After all, we wouldn't want any of the artists to waste their precious work. Then, games can become subscription-based, and you can pay to get a few extra AI-generated lines of dialog somewhere in the world every month. That way, even the writing can be recycled and regurgitated into new stuff.

Great satire article, really makes you think.

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StrangeDr

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@Tiwill44: Who hurt you?

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GotDamnCJ

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Mannnnnnnn. Ive beat Cyberpunk in every way imaginable. Smh. After that update its soo great. Need more. I was actually sad when it ended and Johnny was gone. Mannnn. Such a great game. Need more asap

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mogan

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Edited By mogan  Moderator  Online

Night City is basically the Forgotten Realms to Cyberpunk’s D&D. It’s the default setting, and I agree, they should keep the next game there. Just build a larger, more interactive version of Night City. Expand the wastelands around it to include more stuff as well, but there’s enough to Night City to stay there for another game.

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mrbojangles25

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@mogan: Would love to see more down with verticality and building interiors. Even if they had to add some sort of loading system to the game to compensate for it, I think it'd be fun if they made randomized "dungeons" except they were bunkers or skyscrapers or abandoned factories or something.

Imagine Judge Dredd-style "megablocks" like in the recent Dredd movie where you'd go in and have to fight your way to the top, or going into an old bunker in the wastelands or something.

I don't know, they could even add some sort of "roguelike" mechanic to it if they wanted to.

But yeah, agree with the overall sentiment of the article; Night City is great, don't waste it.

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