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Facebook's Zuckerberg Appeared in Court Today in ZeniMax Case, Here's What He Said

"Like most people in the court, I've never even heard of ZeniMax before."

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[UPDATE] The New York Times attended the first day of the trial today, reporting that Zuckerberg wore a suit instead of his trademark hoodie and jeans. He also blasted the ZeniMax lawsuit and its claims.

"We are highly confident that Oculus products are built on Oculus technology," the Facebook founder said. "The idea that Oculus products are based on someone else's technology is just wrong."

"It is pretty common when you announce a big deal or do something that all kinds of people just kind of come out of the woodwork and claim that they just own some portion of the deal," he added. "Like most people in the court, I've never even heard of ZeniMax before."

Here are some other highlights from today's proceedings, as relayed by NYT reporter Mike Isaac:

The original story is below.

Mark Zuckerberg, founder and CEO of Facebook, is set to appear in court today, January 17, to defend his social media company and its subsidiary Oculus against claims they stole virtual reality technology.

The accusations come from ZeniMax Media, the parent company of Fallout publisher Bethesda and Doom developer Id Software. ZeniMax is suing Oculus and Facebook for $2 billion, the same figure Facebook bought Oculus for in 2014.

According to the BBC, Zuckerberg will argue that "ZeniMax was slow to appreciate the potential of VR--and that it was Oculus' own work that made it the valuable technology it is today."

Facebook founder and CEO Mark Zuckerberg.
Facebook founder and CEO Mark Zuckerberg.

An Oculus spokesperson told the BBC, "We're eager to present our case in court."

"Oculus and its founders have invested a wealth of time and money in VR because we believe it can fundamentally transform the way people interact and communicate.

"We're disappointed that another company is using wasteful litigation to attempt to take credit for technology that it did not have the vision, expertise, or patience to build."

ZeniMax's argument revolves around revered game programmer John Carmack, who had worked for ZeniMax from 2009, when the corporation acquired his studio Id Software for $405 million. In November 2013, he resigned to join Oculus full-time.

But for several months before his departure from Zenimax, Carmack was effectively working for both companies. A year prior to this, he was also helping build a virtual reality version of Doom 3 for Oculus VR.

ZeniMax alleges Carmack "copied thousands of documents from a computer at ZeniMax to a USB storage device."

"He never returned those files or all copies of them after his employment with ZeniMax was terminated," states the lawsuit (via Game Informer). Zenimax lawyer Tony Sammi has said the case is "one of the biggest technology heists ever."

Oculus chief technology officer and ex-ZeniMax employee John Carmack.
Oculus chief technology officer and ex-ZeniMax employee John Carmack.

In a statement to Ars Technica, the Id and Bethesda parent said, "ZeniMax and Id Software welcome the opportunity to present substantial evidence of the Defendants' misappropriation of our Virtual Reality (VR) intellectual property.

"That evidence includes the theft of trade secrets and highly confidential information, including computer code. ZeniMax will also present evidence of the Defendants' intentional destruction of evidence to cover up their wrongdoing. ZeniMax and Id Software are the visionary developers of breakthrough VR technology and look forward to the vindication of our claims."

Carmack testified last week, reportedly calling the case "absurd." His comments reflect those of previous statements by Facebook and Oculus, who previously branded ZeniMax's arguments as "ridiculous." They later said it was ZeniMax's attempt to rectify a "massive missed opportunity."

The case is taking place in a Dallas, Texas court, and it is expected to last three weeks.

Disclosure: Leslie Moonves, president and CEO of GameSpot parent company CBS, is a member of the ZeniMax board of directors.

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colbster

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"If you guys were the inventors of Oculus, you'd have invented Oculus."

"The rest of my attention is back at the offices of Oculus, where my colleagues and I are doing things that no one in this room, including and especially your clients, are intellectually or creatively capable of doing."

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mirage_so3

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Psh. I invented VR. Everyone else just copied me.

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Heqteur

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quote "We are highly confident that Oculus products are built on Oculus technology," the Facebook founder said. "The idea that Oculus products are based on someone else's technology is just wrong."

Well.... How can I say it... I mean, without sounding like a condescending jerk.... I know Zuckerberg won't come here to read some comments, but listen to me you damn noob (geez... I failed the "without sounding like a condescending jerk). Saying you're confident about your business practice is nowhere close to being a satisfyuing proof for a judge. You HAVE to back up that claim with evidences or proof. Not some good faith claims.

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SexyJazzCat

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@heqteur: That's his testimony. He's not using it as evidence against the opposing party. I'm surprised you would even assume a billionaire wouldn't be somewhat familiar with how the court system works.

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cilvar

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Edited By cilvar

"Like most people in court....." ? Talk about a hilariously desperate plea to connect to the members of said court. LOL

You're a shit stain Zuckerberg, who is everything wrong with capitalism, in a single, disgusting, meat bag.

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esqueejy

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@Chernnunos: More like a anti-competition, antitrust-violating plutocrat oligarch, which is indeed pretty much everything wrong with capitalism that eventually causes its decent into reactionary populist neo-fascism..every...single...time...

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datriax

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Edited By datriax

Technology nerd has never heard of Zenimax. Ok. Coming from a blatant thief and con artist, just call em on perjury and toss him in the block.

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esqueejy

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Last time the little turd stole other peoples' ideas it made him a billionaire. Why the hell wouldn't he try to do it again?

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soulfulDAGGER

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Edited By soulfulDAGGER

ZeniMax did not create the VR technology. Oculus was working on the technology long before Carmack was even in the picture. Just because Carmack had some ideas in his head and perhaps sketched some ideas on his computer related to some kind of VR tech, does not make those thoughts or ideas automatically ZeniMax's. If that was the case then people all over the industry and beyond would be affected. Corporations and companies do not own people, as much as they've tried to portray. ZeniMax is still butthurt over Carmack's decision to leave them, they should be ashamed of themselves and i hope the court hammers them severely.

After this case i hope the industry goes Union or something. Something needs to be done to protect the talented workers in the industry. Otherwise you'll have an industry full of early access games and Kickstarter's. No wonder people working in the industry say hell with it and start their own thing. Because of horrible companies like ZeniMax. Go ahead folks, keep shoveling them money. It's hilarious how people are defending them.

ZeniMax basically made their money off of modders who made free content for their games (Fallout 3, 4, Skyrim, etc.) Think about it. How does ZeniMax thank the fans and modders for their success? They don't! They could care less! They are the one's "stealing" and making a profit of other people's works (see the new remastered Skyrim as proof how they stole modder ideas) . If ZeniMax wins the case, then each and every person who made mods for Bethesda games should be compensated financially.

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barom

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@soulfulDAGGER: ZeniMax is not claiming that they created VR. They claimed they (includes Carmack) built something and that Carmack took it and ran to Oculus with it. ZeniMax put money and resources into a project and if that project was used in some shape or form at Oculus then they do have a claim. Here's another way to look at it, if you pay someone (Carmack) to work for you and he/she uses company time and resources to do work for another company, how would you feel?

At first, this did sound crazy but when you look at the evidence, it's starting to look bad for Oculus. The change in tone says everything. It went from Oculus calling it "absurd" and "ridiculous" to now being "ZeniMax trying to capitalize on missed opportunity". I mean the conversation between Zuckerberg and Amin (deal maker) is crazy too:

Amin to Zuck: "There are things they told us that are simply not true.”

Zuck:"keep pushing forward until we have something we can sign on a moment’s notice, then we can figure out how long we wait for diligence.”

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Spectralfire0

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@soulfulDAGGER: "If ZeniMax wins the case, then each and every person who made mods for Bethesda games should be compensated financially."

Seems fair.

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MrDoomLWest

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Edited By MrDoomLWest

@Spectralfire0: No, mods are done by free will, and the creator is not seeking any compensation. Most ask for support (donations) to help make more mods. There is a difference, also keep in mind that most use portions of the code use to build the game. In some cases the developer allows access to tools, so that mods can be made. If a mode creator want compensation, he/she should ask for it, and create their own tools and code to do so. If the mode is good, the community will gladly pay for it. PC gamers are not cheap, like some thing, we support the gaming community, Here, you have someone who use the work done on one company, to release the final product on another company.

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faseli

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@Spectralfire0: No it doesn't. Because at the very least Carmack would have signed an NDA. Normal footsoldiers wouldn't have been allowed to take a USB stick home with them, in many companies that would have been seen as rights for disciplinary and possible dismissal.

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Spectralfire0

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@faseli: It seems the internet is not a good place for sarcasm. Though I don't blame you for taking what I say at face value.

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trust2112

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Of Course no one has ever heard of Zenimax, because The Elder Scrolls/ Skyrim was such a crappy game... (End Sarcasm) I fully believe that Suckerturd stole the foundations of the technology, but will digress that Oculus did make VR happen. And it's not like EVERYONE who's into tech doesn't know that Suckerturd stole the idea of facebook.

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SexyJazzCat

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@trust2112: I love how Mark's ass is the one your grinding instead of John Carmack, you know, the guy who actually stole the tech (if proven to be true anyways).

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TheSpicyChiken

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@trust2112: agreed

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nickw59524

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@trust2112: people heard of Bethesda but definitely not their parent company.

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TEFUKAM

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Zuckerburgler is stupid

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PETERAKO

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Edited By PETERAKO

"Like most people in the court, I've never even heard of ZeniMax before."

oooooooh

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IndySandbagTrik

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Oh you haven't heard of Zenimax before Zuck bro?

Well they are about to ream you for 2,000,000,000 frakkin dollars my friend, learn their name.

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kanekan-slaugh

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everyone being sued: friggin hell Zack you aren't helping us at all!

Zack: Yep.

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ariyan-hm

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Edited By ariyan-hm

zenimax is probbly on the righ foot here but it doesn't give them rights to hold this big ass lawsuit . people like carmak are hot headed people , copying files of his previous works from the system he was working on at zenimax or id software is very likely , because he thinks it was his own work and since zenimax doesn't want them or value them why i left them there , **** zenimax . even i would probably do such a thing but however he didnt expected this to happen . at the same time its shitty thing for zenimax to do this . now they can see the value of vr they want their toys back . i believe if they supported the vr in the first place carmak wouldn't leave id software

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Tekarukite

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@ariyan-hm: To be fair to Zenimax, it doesn't sound like a case of "see the value of vr they want their toys back" it's more of a case of they WERE working on VR and Carmack taking his stuff with him set them way back in R&D to the point they can't compete.

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lostn

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Edited By lostn

"Like most people in the court, I've never even heard of ZeniMax before."

This is not a valid defense against an accusation. It's just using rhetoric to deflect attention away from the charges against him. Saying you've never heard of someone is actually a personal attack. Not having heard of someone who claims to own technology in your product does not make you innocent of the charges against you and is in fact irrelevant.

I do not know if Oculus stole anything. I only wanted to add that this sentence is not a defense.

I also want to point out that even if Zenimax wins this suit, I don't think they'll be getting the $2 billion they want. That is an obscene sum. When Apple sued Samsung for infringing patents, they only asked for $1 billion, and the scope of that lawsuit was much bigger than this. There are far more Galaxy phones out there than Rifts which would be a few hundred thousand at most. The accusation of copying Apple's products extended far beyond borrowing a few books that they didn't return and some source code (which would only be a fraction of the total source code needed to make the OR). Stealing a few resources doesn't equate to the entire Oculus company and all of its technology including the Rift in its entirety is the property of Zenimax. If a company worth $2 billion stole a few things from a company, but 99% of their work was their own, that company is not entitled to $2 billion in damages. Get real.

This is likely going to get settled out of court and Zenimax would receive a much much smaller sum than they think they deserve. Maybe Zucks will get $200k just to get rid of these people.

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sargentpsgamer

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@lostn: That's what they want. They don't expect to get 2 billion, but they have reasoning for asking for it. Facebook paid 2 billion for the product, and ZeniMax feels that money belongs to them. At the end of the day they will probably get 200 million out of it and see it as a victory.

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ariyan-hm

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@lostn: 200k? thats price of a milk shake . 200 million ? maybe

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PrinceNoctis

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Well theyll probably come to a settlement and Zenimax would walk away with a shit ton of money and some european hookers.

Thats how these things work. Trust me i know.

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IndySandbagTrik

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@princenoctis: If Zeni puts a good chunk of it into developing TES VI that'd be just great, thanks Zeni ;)

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soulfulDAGGER

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@IndySandbagTrik: No thanks. I hope devs see the light and leave Bethesda asap.

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Iamkalell

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I don't believe him for a second, but if he doesn't know who ZeniMax is he better find out real quick. It's not a company that should be taken lightly. How is someone like Zuckerberg able to run one of the biggest companies in the world?

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sargentpsgamer

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@Iamkalell: Statement shouldn't be taken literally, he was simply belittling them. He knows who they are.

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lostn

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@Iamkalell: He delegates. Like with most CEOs, other people do most of the work. It's not his concern to know the names of everyone the company deals with. Though he absolutely ought to know the name of the plaintiff suing him in the courtroom that very day.

I think that was just rhetoric. He does know who Zenimax is. There's no way you can get all the way to the day of a court hearing and still not have heard of them. He's just trying to dismiss them as irrelevant, opportunistic gold diggers as a defense of his company.

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almatha

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god what an idiot he is . he didnt know what zenmax was? lol

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kanekan-slaugh

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@almatha: There's a difference between being eccentric and an idiot.

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TheSpicyChiken

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@kanekan-slaugh: Yeah, that difference is usually money.

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StevePatterson93

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Good call by the author for the disclosure about Moonves. (Rare enough seeing honest journalism these days.)

Zuck is a tool. He has a history of trying to screw people out of their money - just look at the way he launched FB in the first place.

Fact is, at 19 and starting a company, he never had the business experience to even learn simple rules like "when you work for one company, they usually have documentation in place that anything created while on the clock at said company will be owned by said company. So, if you're going to be making a great new invention or writing a million dollar screenplay. Do it...OFF THE CLOCK."

Not at work and then download thousands of files to a thumb drive. SMH.

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hystavito

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"Like most people in the court, I've never even heard of ZeniMax before."

That's probably how a lot of tech theft situations are, the victim isn't widely known :). Seriously though, that kind of statement is just out of place, it has no bearing.

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ahpuck

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I think Carmack dropped the ball on this one. Any technology that he may have created for Oculus while being an employee at ZeniMax, belongs to ZeniMax. Maybe he didn't created anything, who knows? It's going to be an interesting trial, that's for sure.

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KiLLLeR150

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"I've never even heard of ZeniMax before."

That's ignorance at best, perjury at worst. What a complete liar.

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alaskancrab

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Zuckerberg is an idiot to begin with... anyone that things people are going to where a helmet to talk about their ugly babies and pets is on something powerful.

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turkeygod

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irrelevant comments by irrelevant people for this case

now if zenimax wins he looks like a idiot

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immortality20

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Yep, definitely not buying that you didn't hear of ZeniMax before, pure B.S.

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