GameSpot may receive revenue from affiliate and advertising partnerships for sharing this content and from purchases through links.

Knull Creators Want To Be Paid For His Appearance In Venom: The Last Dance

Donny Cates and artist Ryan Stegman share their responses to seeing their creation in Venom: The Last Dance.

14 Comments

Earlier this week, the new trailer for Venom: The Last Dance revealed that the character's ultimate adversary, Knull, will be in the movie. The villain, who was created in 2018 by writer Donny Cates and artist Ryan Stegman, is making his first live-action appearance. And both creators would very much like to be paid for that.

On social media, Stegman noted that he had not received any advance notice about Knull's cinematic debut while jokingly speaking about what he would use his share of the money for the character's appearance.

Cates had a more concise response. He flipped the Venom logo so it looks like it spells out "money."

Cates and Stegman introduced Knull as a cosmic god who created Venom's symbiote race before his creations turned against him and imprisoned him for ages. Knull was eventually used as the primary villain in Cates and Stegman's King in Black crossover in 2020. Last year's Venom-centric Spider-Man 2 video game didn't feature Knull, but his insignia was included in the game which seemingly teased his existence.

Marvel does reportedly have a policy in place to pay creators when characters that originated with them are used in film or television projects. A 2022 story in The Hollywood Reporter suggested that although the initial contracts called for $25,000, the payment shrank down to $5,000 for each of the creators of Yelena Belova, Florence Pugh's character in Black Widow. It's unclear if those terms remain, or if they've been updated since then.

Venom: The Last Dance will hit theaters on October 25.

Got a news tip or want to contact us directly? Email news@gamespot.com

Join the conversation
There are 14 comments about this story
14 Comments  RefreshSorted By 
GameSpot has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to toxic conduct in comments. Any abusive, racist, sexist, threatening, bullying, vulgar, and otherwise objectionable behavior will result in moderation and/or account termination. Please keep your discussion civil.

Avatar image for simonthekid7
Simonthekid7

1389

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 5

"Knull"..

if you knew what it means in swedish ..


3 • 
Avatar image for brxricano
brxricano

1154

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@simonthekid7: we won't learn unless you teach us.

2 • 
Avatar image for feral411
Feral411

316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Did they sell their creation to a company and give up their rights to it? If so then why do they think they can demand payment?

3 • 
Avatar image for ceelogreen94
ceelogreen94

577

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@feral411: Knull is a new character in Spiderman so Sony doesn't own the rights to him at all. The fact that they didn't clear that up with this man. Sony can and most likely will be sued at this point.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for feral411
Feral411

316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@ceelogreen94: according to a quick google search he appeared in 2018 and was also a nameless entity in a Thor comic from 2013… so not sure what your definition of “new” is.

Also, companies such as Sony, generally know exactly, down to fine details, what IP they are allowed to use and what they can’t. It doesn’t make sense for them to just risk using something they aren’t allowed to and leave themselves open to a lawsuit. Far cheaper to just pay the IP owner for permission then to be sued.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for ceelogreen94
ceelogreen94

577

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By ceelogreen94

@feral411: when I say " New " he is a new character. Sony got the rights to Spider-man in the 90's I think. Knull wasn't introduced or even a Character in the 90's so Sony has no claims to him. The guy created him really holds all the cards unless Sony brought the rights from him.

"The Marvel Comics character Knull was first introduced in Venom vol.4 #3 in August 2018.Writer Donny Cates and artist Ryan Stegman created the character."

That should help me better explain this.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for feral411
Feral411

316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By Feral411

@ceelogreen94: but you’re making a huge assumption that Sony hasn’t acquired any other characters since that date. My point still stands that it’s far more likely Sony only uses IP they have the right to use than stuff they don’t. The creator would likely be saying more than just pay me if that were the case.

Further, it’s been discussed in the past. This article sums up why Knull would be with Sony: https://www.cbr.com/knull-rights-exaplained-marvel-sony/

Upvote • 
Avatar image for ceelogreen94
ceelogreen94

577

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@feral411: Sony hasn't acquired any new characters from the spider-verse in that time. That much I know for certain. Knull belongs and is the property of those two artists and Marvel has a small claim to as well simply due to " Publishing " and nothing else.

I'm pretty sure these two artists may have worked, or I hope they would have worked something out with Marvel to get royalties from this. This wouldn't be the first time that Sony has gotten sued for copyright issue pertaining to ownership rights of a character or characters.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for feral411
Feral411

316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@ceelogreen94: I’d love to see your source to definitively prove that Sony hasn’t acquired any other characters. Unless you’re an insider or have a source, you’re just making claims with no confirmation.

Time will tell.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for ceelogreen94
ceelogreen94

577

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

Edited By ceelogreen94

@feral411: I'm a media consultant and I work with a lot of Creators/Movie contracts. This is why I can tell you for a fact that Sony doesn't own the rights to Knull at all and they haven't acquired any new rights at all for characters created after 1999 for sure and Knull wasn't a thing back then.

I have seen Marvel Contracts, and I have also seen what Characters Marvel can lay claim to as well. Just like before with Black Panther, I worked closely with the legal team to make sure that they knew what they could use and couldn't use. Kill-monger was owned by Disney so that is why they choose him first, plus it was a great starting point for the franchise. However, the reason you all had to wait so long for Black Panther 2 was that Disney didn't own the rights Namor, those had to come from 20th century Fox at the time. Just like Marvel doesn't own the rights to the Hulk but they worked out a deal with 20th century to use the characters. This is also why you will most likely never get another standalone movie for hulk unless they get the rights back.

So I can know for sure that Sony is walking a fine line here using that Character and I wouldn't be surprised if they do get sued if they didn't break marvel off for the use of the character and the creator as well. Sony has been doing shady dealings for some time in films and it will catch them in the end.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for feral411
Feral411

316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@ceelogreen94: those movies were years ago. Unless you have seen any / all recent contracts or deals made you again CAN’T say for certain.

Like I said, time will tell… not some guy making bold claims on the internet that he knows everything about the inner workings of Sony’s movie rights

Upvote • 
Avatar image for Wraith3
Wraith3

1250

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@feral411: Right. If they created it while working for Marvel, then I'd guess it's property of the company. It would be like each designer of a car demanding GM/Ford pay them royalties.

4 • 
Avatar image for clubhouse
Clubhouse

77

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@Wraith3: Bingo, I bet they have a small bonus they give for it going to a new medium.

Great comic arc though one of marvels better newer ones.

Upvote • 
Avatar image for ceelogreen94
ceelogreen94

577

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 5

@Wraith3: No Knull is new to the comics and the spider verse Sony only owns all previous characters and villains, so Knull wouldn't fit into that category. Sony maybe getting ready to be sued and this guy would win big at this point.

Upvote •