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Mass Effect Dev Reveals Most Players Refused To Be The Bad Guy

Even with no one watching, we're compelled to do good.

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If you played through any of the Mass Effect trilogy, there's a high probability you played Shepherd as a Paragon opposed to a Renegade--at least on the first playthrough. And the stats back it up.

According to former Bioware cinematic designer John Ebenger, around 92% of players opted to be the good guy in their Mass Effect playthrough. "Something like 92% of Mass Effect players were Paragon. And we put a lot of work in to the Renegade content too :(," Ebenger wrote in a tweet.

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Now Playing: The History of Mass Effect

Paragon and Renegade occupied opposite sides of Mass Effect's binary morality system. Players could choose different lines of dialogue and actions that fit one of the two sides, with each decision adding points to their character's score as a either a Paragon or Renegade. Filling up one side would open up more choices down that path, so you were incentivised to pick one and stick with it instead of mixing and matching according to the situation.

Paragon was the typical goody two shoes path, encompassing compassion and acts of heroism. Renegade, meanwhile, focused on selfishness and just generally being a piece of work--like when punching a reporter in the face--but an argument can also be made for the ends justifying the means in some instances.

One Twitter user replied to Ebenger, criticising the morality system's tendency to incentivise sticking to one path over the other. "Yup, that's why it was changed for [Mass Effect 3]," wrote Ebenger in response.

Bioware experimented with the system throughout the trilogy, beginning with a total points score that then morphed into a percentage-based system in Mass Effect 2. Significant changes were introduced in Mass Effect 3, boiling it down to a single reputation meter which Paragon and Renegade points both contributed to. On the flip side, Mass Effect: Andromeda abandoned the morality system altogether.

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pixelstuff

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Edited By pixelstuff

Freedom is the ability to become the bad guy, and then you don't.

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Maize84

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I did 8+ plays of the ME trilogy, and only ever did 2 renegade runs (one for each gender of Shepard)

I honestly didn't like the renegade writing as well. Most of the time it was fine, with being expedient or practical options that aren't good and proper. The problem always came with some mustache twirly choice that came out as a Saturday morning cartoon villain playbook. Also It was hard to be renegade when Tali was around.

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doodoflife

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How about remastering this trilogy so we can all be renegades?

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hostyl1

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Edited By hostyl1

It's funny, but it seems like some people pick Paragon options because they feel it is the "right" thing to do. On sister site GiantBomb, Alex Navarro played through ME 1&2 and you could hear him talking through his feelings at certain points in the game. It would seem like he wanted to be dickish to a character... but would then choose the Paragon option. I went for more what I felt I'd be more likely to do for real and for the most part, that was Renegade. I mean, I talked Wrex down, because I really liked Wrex. I killed the Rachni Queen because a) I hate roaches, b) seemed like too big a threat. I was maxed out Renegade but still was able to be merciful here and there.

Edit: And I absolutely loved Hale's Renegade FemShep!

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gamingdevil800

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It's actually way more fun going renegade loads of good one liners and interruptions. My favourite moment is in Mass Effect 2 when a Merc starts saying "While we've been talking my men have been lining up shots..." then you can just interrupt him by blasting him in the face then shooting down scaffolding on his buddies.

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SbargoVox3

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When the ending (oh god the horror) is the same, might as well not be a douchebag who punches reporters in the face — or casually commits genocide just 'cause they can. The games also very heavily incentivized full paragon or full renegade playthroughs, giving you access to exclusive skills and dialogue options and it isn't like the choice between the two alignments was terribly nuanced. You literally chose between being a dick and not being a dick.

Hell, with an imported save, the final game pretty much shafts a renegade character into the worst possible endings because of a lack of ending-o-matic resource that paragon players get showered with because renegades went around pissing off or killing anyone willing to help.

And now I've reminded myself of just how bad the ending to the trilogy was, goddamnit.

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lostn

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i find it harder to be a jerk in video games than in real life. It ought to be the other way around.

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gamingdevil800

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@lostn: It's way more fun being the bad guy in rpgs only downside is whether or not companions hate your bad behaviour.

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Devil_wings00

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I always played both. One play through as good and one as bad. The game punished you for trying to be in between (you'd miss out on options that needed certain Good or Bad value to access) so that was never a real option. Also, renegade choices made you just shy of a baby killing maniac while paragon you were the righteous goodie two shoes hero. It made no narrative sense to ping pong and made shep seem like a bi-polar psychotic weirdo if you tried.

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deactivated-64efdf49333c4

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...k.

So how about that new Mass Effect game we know they're working on?

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mogan

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mogan  Moderator

I always went paragon. Couldn't bring myself to be a dick in Mass Effect.

Except for the renegade interrupts where you fry the gunship mechanic and kick the dude out the skyscraper window. Couldn't not do those.

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Rekonym

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How about the 'Paragade' or the 'Renegon'?

Mixtures of both, which is pretty much what I played in my 'canon' playthrough, the one I used from ME1 and imported it to ME2 and continued on with ME3. It was mostly Paragon with some Renegade choices, ratio was about 70% Paragon, 30% Renegade.

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javalino

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Nah. I always play renegade ! no matter if i lose itens or such. Hit Wrex with a Shotgun had no price!!

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Bloody_Sky

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Eh, I was always renegade on my first playthrough of the Mass Effect games. I just thought Commander Shepard (especially male Shep) was better as being a "don't take no crap" bad ass. I thought Mark Meer delivered the renegade lines very well and seemed to fit the role better than paragon. I'm sure there will be people who will disagree, but that's how I felt. I enjoyed the trilogy so much that, over the years, I have played as both a good and bad female and male Shepard. IMO, Renegade - Male Shepard, Paragon - Female Shepard.

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sepir

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I think about 80% of my 20+ playthroughs of the trilogy are paragon. Only one of those renegade ones, the first one, did I betray the Krogan. Couldn't do it again partly because Wrex, and partly because you lose too much if you do.

That said my first renegade play through in ME1 was with a femshep, and that changed the way I play games. Used to always chose a male protagonist if there was a choice until then, now it is almost always female.

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deactivated-64efdf49333c4

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@sepir: To be fair, the vast majority of gamers have no idea what they're missing by going full renegade, so it's unlikely that they will be making all of their choices with actual gameplay consequences in mind. Also, there is nothing stopping anyone from making the odd Paragon choice in a Renegade run like, say, sparing certain characters so you don't lose them? It's still possible to max out the Renegade bar. This idea that you can't make ANY Paragon choices in a Renegade game is kind of silly.

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moonwatcher99

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@Barighm: @Barighm: Yeah, I usually go Paragade. I definitely tend more to the Paragon than Renegade line, especially in ME1 - no way was I going to support that racist jerk on the Citadel just for a few Renegade points. There are a few, though, that I just can't be that nice to. The dude in Chora's Den comes to mind...

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Xero_Kaiser

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I went Renegade in the first two games but the Renegade choices in ME3 were so spectacularly stupid that I couldn’t force myself to pick them.

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Kyrylo

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Yeah, maybe because you get punished for being bad guy so it doesnt makes sense to be one.

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lostn

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@Kyrylo: no you don't. They balanced it so that if you kill X character, some new character will take their place and serve the same role.

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Thanatos2k

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Edited By Thanatos2k

Most people will always choose the good path in games that give them a choice, not just because they want to play a hero but because they don't trust the devs to not punish them for choosing the "bad" path.

I chose most Paragon choices in ME3, except the Renegade ones that resulted in Shepard punching people in the face because they were always quality scenes.

If they want people to make a bigger variety of choices, don't reveal the color of the choice until after they make it, and don't give people gameplay bonuses for only sticking on one side.

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gamer112696

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@Thanatos2k: Exactly. In any game where you are given a choice of being lethal or nonlethal, I always choose nonlethal because I’m worried my ending will change like Dishonored (luckily I knew before hand in that so I got the good ending). Even if a certain character seems like they should die, I have to think more about what the developers want me to do rather than what I would do lol.

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deactivated-64efdf49333c4

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@Thanatos2k: You're speaking for yourself, of course. In reality, most people really do prefer to play the hero, even among the hardcore gaming crowd. It has very little to do with rewards or what the gamer thinks of the dev. This has been noted many times, and not just with Mass Effect. Even games with more grey zones like The Witcher get the odd gripe from people not getting the "good" outcome that they were hoping for.

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Thanatos2k

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Edited By Thanatos2k

@Barighm: Not sure what you're talking about. In almost every game being the bad guy punishes you in various ways, from getting worse rewards to failing quests to having entire quests locked out if you kill NPCs. Players have long been conditioned to not be evil whenever give a choice to get the best rewards, or keep a save in the back pocket to load after your rampage. I am absolutely not speaking for myself, and Bioware found out exactly this and the statistics back it up.

The best choice they made in the entire series is the Kaiden Ashley choice near the end of the first game. There is no right choice, or wrong choice, or Paragon choice, or Renegade choice, and neither choice is "better" than the other either narratively or gameplaywise. You pick who you want to live, and who to die. You get to rationalize the choice to no one but yourself.

But had they put blue and red on that choice the statistics of who chose what would have been WAY different, and that's the point.

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asnakeneverdies

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@Barighm: Actual choice happens in the core, Barighm. All this is tracking is what people did once presented with some intrusive color coded binary prompt. Discrete reckoning is all about the developer, not the player.

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BigDaveX

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Edited By BigDaveX

@Thanatos2k: They tried a more "realistic" system in ME: Andromeda... and most people seem to agree that it completely sucked balls compared to the Paragon/Renegade system.

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mogan

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mogan  Moderator

@bigdavex: Well, that was more because the writing in Andromeda was terrible than anything else. There wasn’t enough depth to the Ryder character to be good or bad no matter what you chose.

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