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The Marvel Cinematic Universe's Downward Spiral Kicked Into High Gear In 2023

After an unprecedented run of successes, Marvel has been stuck in one long stumble.

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It's official: The Marvels is the worst-performing MCU movie ever, making even less than Black Adam, DC's similarly poor performer from last fall. Over the last decade and a half, Marvel has proven to be hugely popular, with its biggest movies among the highest earning films of all time. Meanwhile, The Marvels star Brie Larson is a massively popular actor reprising a role from the MCU's Infinity Saga. Yet, this is where we are. So what's going on?

People throw around the term "superhero fatigue" as a reason to dismiss poorly performing comic book movies or TV shows. It's more complicated than that, though. In reality, a combination of factors are at play, including a misunderstanding of why people were so invested in the first arc of MCU movies, things Marvel Studios should've been doing to get viewers ready for the future of the franchise, and a wild miscommunication between the studio and its fans about what matters in these movies and shows.

People didn't actually like comic book movies

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I love superhero movies. You might love superhero movies. But for many people, the MCU ended with Avengers Endgame--the movie that literally had Endgame in its title. For them, it wasn't about liking superhero movies or even Marvel movies specifically. Rather, many of us got swept up in our love for Steve Rogers and Tony Stark (and a few others, of course). Endgame gave finality to two of its most popular characters, and in the process gave many fans of those earlier Marvel movies an excuse not to come back. Cap, Tony, and Black Widow were all irrevocably gone, and characters like Hulk and Hawkeye were in a confusing state of limbo.

That some Marvel characters were going to step away after Endgame was a foregone conclusion and Marvel Studios knew it was going to happen well in advance. However, while preparing for the next arc, the studio didn't do the work to endear us to other characters that we could carry on with. Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, Spider-Man, and Ant-Man are the closest things audiences currently have to Cap and Tony, but none of them have won over the hearts and minds of viewers in the same way. Captain Marvel is arguably one of the leaders of the MCU right now, but the Russos downplayed her presence in Avengers: Endgame because they couldn't (or didn't want to) deal with her nuclear powerset, missing a chance to give us a reason to care about the character in any meaningful way.

The characters that did carry over from the earlier age of the MCU, meanwhile, have had fewer movies and/or TV shows come out more slowly due to the growing cast of the MCU. Even Hulk was more or less a part-time sidekick in She-Hulk.

The COVID of it all

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2019 saw the three-punch combo of Captain Marvel, Avengers: Endgame, and Spider-Man: Far from Home all hit within five months of each other.

Then the forward momentum just stopped. Right after the end of one of the biggest storylines in pop culture, COVID hit hard and we wouldn't see another Marvel movie for two years. That's not just two years of movies in development, but also two years of planning for what to do after Endgame was also put on pause because none of the other parts of the Marvel Studios machine could really move, and it was up to the then-new Disney+ service to fill in the gaps with Marvel shows like WandaVision and Loki.

It really can't be understated how many wrenches COVID threw into the spinning gears of Marvel's machine. WandaVision was supposed to hit Disney+ just a few months before Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, rather than a year and a half earlier. Doctor Strange's second outing was also supposed to land before Spider-Man: No Way Home to kick off the multiverse for real, but delays, complications, and the fact that Spider-Man's cinematic likeness is ultimately owned by Sony all messed up the schedule there.

There's No Team In "I"

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In the earlier days of the MCU, it was easier to keep things straight. We had just a few characters with their own series in Cap, Iron Man, and Thor. With the exception of Iron Man (he had two), each member of that trio got one film before Avengers. Characters were introduced and new movies were released at a pretty reasonable cadence at that point, to the tune of 2-3 movies a year. Every two years or so, we'd get a team-up movie.

When we look at the post-Endgame MCU, though, we've had 11 films since the last team-up, including two Spider-Man movies and Black Widow, a long-overdue make-up film that told a story about a character whose ending we already knew--even Ms. Marvel herself, Iman Vellani, has voiced her feeling that it's been too long since Marvel Studios had a big team-up feature. Black Widow was essentially Marvel fulfilling a contract with Scarlett Johansson, and it was ultimately damaging to the MCU if only because it was comparatively boring and because it released in 2021 when worries about COVID were still everpresent. This isn't to say that Black Widow didn't deserve her own movie, but that Marvel Studios probably should've released it before, you know, she fell to her death on an alien planet.

We also had Eternals in there. Director Chloe Zhao presented us with some startling, exciting visuals, and the movie had its own merits. However, it largely didn't feel like a Marvel movie compared to previous outings. We were introduced to something like 10 brand-new characters that were supposedly around for Thanos' attack on existence itself, but were meant to believe that they had good reasons for not helping out. Avengers took five movies to introduce us to five characters, but this movie introduced us to all of these characters at once, and none of them had the charisma that helped us hook into the previous characters.

As for more familiar characters, the latest entries from Thor, Ant-Man, and Doctor Strange are all considered among the lowest points of the MCU in terms of quality. Then there's The Marvels, which is by all accounts a pretty good MCU film. Yet, still, it has the distinction of being the lowest-grossing Marvel tale yet. So in addition to the flood of new characters populating the universe, even the movies about the faces we're familiar with aren't exactly getting the job done.

This is the longest time between team-up movies in the MCU by a pretty wide stretch, and we're set to get another five movies before the next Avengers film. Before, we had The Avengers, a team of specific heroes. After 16 movies that will include four teams--Eternals, Marvels, Fantastic Four, and Thunderbolts, all of which introduce new characters--we'll finally get an Avengers movie. What's more, The Marvels even teased the possibility of yet another team, which could make things even more confusing.

Part of the problem here is that Endgame marked the end of the Avengers as we knew it, and there seemingly wasn't a plan for what the next team would look like at the time. The X-Men only rejoined Disney in 2019, and there were already years of films in production by that point. It's only in the last year that we've started to see hints and Easter eggs about Marvel's mutant team.

So instead of having a clear team to cheer for, what we have is a bunch of guys. Just guys everywhere. Little guys, big guys, flying guys, multidimensional guys.

Being a superhero is hard. Watching superhero movies shouldn't be.

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And that gets us to the problem that people are more or less aware of: Marvel movies have become homework. This is the same problem that began to drag on the CW's Arrowverse shows. The Marvel TV machine has spun up, and the Marvel movie machine is back up to speed. Not only have there been 11 films, but also 10 shows comprising 69 episodes and something like 51 hours of television.

Some of these series, like WandaVision and Ms. Marvel, have dovetailed into movies in some way. Others, like Moon Knight and Secret Invasion, happen entirely in the periphery. Moon Knight, for the fun show that it was, was more about Oscar Isaac's acting chops of playing a bunch of different weirdos, rather than connecting his character to a greater universe of characters. And Secret Invasion, which was released before The Marvels, certainly seems to be set after it. Otherwise, how was it not brought up even once?

Part of the allure of these movies was seeing our cool friends in weird costumes pop up, but now we have more places to look for them, and we're not even seeing them. Shang-Chi, Doctor Strange 2's America Chavez, Namor and, again, Moon Knight--each a compelling character on their own--haven't been seen anywhere else. Kit Harrington's Black Knight could've popped up in London at the same time as Moon Knight. Shang-Chi could've appeared in She-Hulk: Attorney-at-Law--the lack of MCU characters appearing in that show was just one of its failings. Members of the Eternals could've cropped up elsewhere--though again, despite some great casting, none of those actors has enough going on to make bringing them back interesting.

It's hard to tell which Marvel shows are 'required reading,' and there are a lot of Marvel shows. There's no red asterisk at the upper-right corner of the title to remind you that this show will matter to the greater Marvel story, and if skipping it will leave them confused or not, and people aren't willing to do work to figure that out.

The power of the supervillain

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Along with a clear team of recurring heroes to work with in the earlier days of the MCU, we had a great villain. Thanos acted as this specter for a bunch of movies and began to appear more and more until he had his moment as, essentially, the main character of Avengers: Infinity War.

The next storyline is supposed to be the Multiverse Saga, featuring Kang the Conqueror as the main threat. Let's set aside the fact that 'Kang the Conqueror' just sounds less intimidating and more obviously like he hails from the Silver Age of comics in which he originated when compared to Thanos. Following Majors being found guilty of assault and harrassment, Marvel Studios has now dropped him--the actor who was to shoulder this entire phase of Marvel movies--completely.

Marvel could absolutely recast Kang, and it could even make sense for the character. By his very nature, Kang isn't just one character--he's inherently lots and lots of characters. Variants of Kang have appeared in Loki Seasons 1 and 2, as well as Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. While they're all played by the same actor, though, they've been different characters. Victor Timely, He Who Remains, and Kang were all very different characters, and only Ant-Man's Kang actually used the name. Marvel Studios has failed thus far to make them feel connected to the greater audience.

At the same time, Studios has a mixed history when it comes to recasting characters. Mark Ruffalo replaced Edward Norton as Bruce Banner, and Don Cheadle replaced Terrence Howard as James 'Rhodey' Rhodes due to disputes between the studio and actors, and they chose to recast Thaddeus 'Thunderbolt' Ross following the death of William Hurt, with Harrison Ford playing the character for at least one appearance in the fourth Captain America film. However, Marvel Studios also decided not to recast T'Challa in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever following Chadwick Boseman's death. Kang was set to have a massively prominent role in the MCU; of the aforementioned characters, only Black Panther compares to Kang in terms of role prominence and billing. It's difficult at this point to say whether Marvel will actually move ahead with recasting the character.

On top of Marvel's struggles with making this character meaningful to the audience and with finding an actor who can play the role, multiverses are an inherently slippery concept, and Marvel is struggling--just like Loki in the Loki Season 2, ironically--to keep all of the different threads straight.

All of these disparate movies and characters have broken down the once straightforward continuity of the MCU. It was easy to tell who was who, when, and where. So we've had an explosion in casting, and a scattering in time and space. It's a long way from all the Super Friends living at the Avengers campus.

An industry in flux

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Another exacerbating factor in this is the presence of Disney+ itself as a reliable streaming source for Marvel content. The pandemic certainly inflated the importance of the service for Disney, as it was a stopgap solution to keep investors from getting antsy if the company's profits were somehow down during a time when the whole world was in their homes. In the process, though, it chipped away at the "event" status of Marvel Studios movies. Not only were we getting much more frequent doses of Marvel thanks to the constant stream of Marvel shows, but we knew the movies would end up there in short order. Marvel movies stopped being a theatrical event to being something you could just catch on streaming later, maybe, when you had time, if you remembered. And then Disney, like Netflix and Max, began to ramp up their prices from feeling reasonable to being a burden, so now people are canceling their services and not actually watching those eventually-maybe movies at all.

Also affecting overall sentiment is the state of VFX in Hollywood. As Marvel put out too many shows and too many films too quickly, all of these productions, which were happening at the same time as whatever else was going on in Hollywood at the time, reached a critical mass. Despite being a house built entirely on great VFX, Marvel never saw a need to build its own in-house VFX team, instead seeing fit to continue contracting out to these overworked VFX studios that were bidding lower and lower to get their business. Moviegoers have complained more about Marvel VFX in the last couple of years than in the decade before that--people are noticing.

All of these things have devalued Marvel movies in the eyes of fans. They're a dime a dozen, they don't look as good as they used to, they're confusing and feel scattered. They've gone from the biggest story in the world to a smattering of somewhat-connected threads that often don't end up getting tied off. It looks less like a line and more like It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia's Charlie Kelly's conspiracy board for Pepe Silvia. Even those of us who are still fans, who are still going to these movies on day one and watching the shows concurrently, can't keep it all straight.

The Marvels

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Let's talk about Captain Marvel and The Marvels specifically for a moment. Let's set aside the conflict between Brie Larson's sheer existence and the entire industry of YouTubers who have built empires on screaming about her. Marvel set her first movie in the 1990s, and then her next appearance was in Avengers: Endgame, where, again, the Russos seemingly only featured her as much as they were forced to, which wasn't much. Her best buddy in the MCU has consistently been Nick Fury, and our latest adventure with him was Secret Invasion, a snooze of a TV show that mostly just reminded us that Samuel L. Jackson is a 74-year-old man, and featured hide nor hair of Captain Marvel, the person who had helped establish the relationship with between Earth and the Skrull refugees. Monica Rambeau was an important character in WandaVision, but we haven't really seen her since then, and so when she appeared in this movie, plenty of people had forgotten about her. Oh yeah, and it also brought Iman Vellani's Kamala Khan into the fold, following her Ms. Marvel show on Disney+.

Say what you will about the quality of the movie, which we enjoyed. Only the most committed fans of Marvel movies can remember and track all of these characters and timelines. It's hauntingly similar to the collapse of comic books in the 1990s, when readership fell off hard and publishers were left only with dedicated fans who dutifully bought their books every single week.

I loved Marvels. I'm excited about so many upcoming Marvel projects like Blade, Deadpool 3, and whatever they end up doing with the X-Men. It's even fun to think about how Kevin Feige can redeem the Fantastic Four after exclusively bad movie adaptations. But it's harder than ever to blame people who have fallen off, as Marvel made missteps and turned their fandom into fan labor.

Eric Frederiksen on Google+

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Clemsixty

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The Marvel universe seems to have taken a downturn; the storylines feel peculiar, and characters like the Hulk have been portrayed in a less impressive manner. It's challenging to stay engaged with these films, and I suspect the creators might be influenced by unconventional ideas. Personally, I miss the days when the franchise captivated me, and I find the repetitive themes and lack of significant conflicts rather uninspiring. Perhaps exploring different movie genres, like "Bright Burn," or enjoying animated films such as "Invincible," could offer a refreshing change.

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Mutale97

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@clemsixty: brightburn was lame and what do u mean they arent significant conflicts?

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cwilli11

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Prioritizing representation over story telling will do it every time.

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Mutale97

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@cwilli11: so if they had straight white guys suddenly they care about stories

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alex33x

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@mutale97: People lose interest, when your favorite characters get race or gender swapped. This is a fact. Hence, why the MSheU is failing.

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himalaya

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Great article! Definitely see Black Panther getting recasted with the mystery son being a teen for the next Avengers team.

I also had the same 90s comic meltdown vibe from Marvel with the latest offerings.

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s1taz4a3l

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The problem is not the roster, is that a VERY large component of Marvel(comic) heroes are mutants, and in those 10 years of movies there are none, that leaves captain marvel as an omega level powerhouse when isnt omega level once mutants are added. So once omega level mutants are added to the MCU and she is bumped back to just a superpowered human, whats going to happen to those 10 years backwards of movies.

People are going to start poking holes as to how the avengers did even beat up thanos with no mutant help at all.

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Dushness

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@s1taz4a3l: well that's the thing, avengers didn't beat up thanos. thanos won.

then thanos almost won a second time, but for stark's perfectly timed nano-tech gauntlet grabbing the stones. a one-in-however many million chance..

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himalaya

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@s1taz4a3l: The power scale is broken in the MCU just like in the comics. IMO it’s more noticeable in the MCU since it’s crazy to see everyone fight together in Wakanda against Thanos and no one gets a call to help against Namor? And Wanda is out there just being nuts, but no one gets the Avengers back together?

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Dushness

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you have to think about who is going to go see these movies and what do they really want to see for two hours and want to see more than once. then decide if you want their money or not

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gamespotter_198

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For me, they really started to tank after Infinity War. I could barely watch Endgame honestly.

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deactivated-676d0be3d3464

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Hahahahhahahahahhaha

Captain Marvel is one of the main reasons why these movies tank. Brie Larson is one of the most obnoxious people in the movie industry, and the way Marvel (and many other producers and media outlets) has been treating the "armies of youtubers" -- aka fans -- is evidently a catalyst to this crysis. There is a huge fire right next to a grill, and people blame the fire on global warming. TURN OFF THE FREAKING GRILL!!!

There is no "hero fatigue". There is "woke fatigue". Make entertainment, not lectures.

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Mutale97

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@rickxy007: the only obnoxius people are those that brie larson as the evil monster. What exactly is "woke fatigue"?

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deactivated-676d0be3d3464

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@mutale97: took some time for me to receive the comment. Well, first of all, any person is certainly free to dislike public figures based off their moralizing and unequivocally misguided ideological positions. Advocating for justice when you sit in the very 0.001% of the world's population is hypocritical to say the least. In any case, actors voice their opinions publicly, and are certainly prone to public backlash. In the case of Brie Larson, she is a just a privileged and entitled white woman who finds it funny to ridicule the very fan base she should be supporting. They are the reason why she had that particular job, after all. If there were no people interested in super hero movies, by all means, she would have not played one. I wonder if she will still do that. Regarding woke fatigue, I assume you must be in your late 20s early 30s, some college education, maybe even a degree. So the very fact that you ask what woke fatigue is implies you must not agree with the definition (and uses) of woke, which have been extensively used in media, politics and social debates for quite a few years now. If you don't know what fatigue is, then you certainly don't have a college degree. Im any case, I would define woke fatigue as the backlash many fans have voiced against repeated patterns of moralism, identity politics and ideology (4th wave radical feminism, CRT, etc) applied in media -- in this case, super hero movies. It is supposed to be entertainment after all. One could go on and explain how Gramsci, Marcuse and the german philosophy/sociology (Marx comes to mind) operated, or go further and stick with the French and theory deconstructionists. That would be equally counter productive. What upsets me with Brie Larson is what upsets me about most white, privileged Americans, of which I assume you are a part (apologies if mistaken). There's a moralizing and utterly imperialistic approach into what people should and should not do/say/think, and if you don't, you are an X, Y or Z kind of person, usually associated with a specific "ism". Idiotic, but as one can easily detect, idiotic positions attract a lot of disingenuous people, and that's that. I hope I have answered your question. Next time, Google it :)

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fbplayer1086

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Edited By fbplayer1086

They just throw in these new characters that unless you are a comic book reader you have no idea who they are. The Marvels, never heard of them and the only character I recognize is from the one of the worst movies of phase 1. It worked from Guardians of the Galaxy because they are interesting looking characters, you're like "hmm never heard of them, but it looks fun". Just looking at the poster for The Marvel it literally looks like the b team of a WB show, and everything looks completely cookie cutter.

I'll go see spiderman movies, and Dr Strange movies and Chang Shai? because his movie was at least visually fun to watch. No reason to watch anything else since there isn't even a real overarching story right now.

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Mutale97

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@fbplayer1086: what character from phase 1 was in the marvels. How do the marvels look like a b team from a wb show but guardians of the galaxy didnt? The multiverse is the overaching story. Not every movie has to be part of an overarching story.

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santinegrete

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I'm just not intrigued by a movie that has this Captain Marvel in the cast. The other characters were introduced in series I watched and I enjoyed, but the problem with Captain Marvel's is not Brie Larson, nor her attitude, because she is doing a good job.

The problem is the script around the character, she is disconnected from the team, or a team in general. Looks like she doesn't give 2 doritos about earth (reinforced with her disconnection with her father). I find it hard to connect with it from the bigger standpoint to the person behind the character standpoint (person, not actress).

The character just fails misserably on being likeable and relatable. It doesn't make me cringe, it just pisses me off. I don't know if it is behind of an agenda or whatever.

I liked She Hulk waaaaay more: she tried to be self suficient and, like many people who went that route, had to go through a way they didn't like to get the bills paid, and she doesn't care what they think about her because she is getting things done, at least on the job part. The ending of the series, I didn't like it, but it was a not a downgrade enough to make me forget what I liked about the series.

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Mutale97

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@santinegrete: she is likeable in the marvels

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topmounter

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I subscribed to D+ for a month when it launched and gassed out entirely w/ MCU watching Avengers: Endgame.

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lord2fli

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Edited By lord2fli

The lack of interconnectivity and continuity has really hurt things imo. As much as I didn't care for the first two Avengers films, they served a waypoint to bring everyone together and reinforce the threat.

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TeshamMutna

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No one wants to watch several hours worth of a TV show that they might not like just to understand a film that is based off that show. There's just way too much content now for new comers to get caught up on.

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Mutale97

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@teshammutna: it didnt hurt multiverse of madness

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santinegrete

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@teshammutna: that's a way to put it I didn't think about. I honestly wanted more MCU so I bitted on the series. Could say they were good enough to watch at least once.... maybe the episode per week release schedule helped to soften the fatigue, if there was any.

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Silentchief

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The focus became making movies to appease the " Diversity warriors ". Focusing on heroes nobody gives a shit about while race swapping existing heroes to hit those check boxes and pander to a female audience that doesn't care about your movies. There's a reason " The Marvels" was the biggest flop in MCU history and all those " You Tubers" told you it was going to happen. The shill media and corporations can keep ignoring this simple fact but until you acknowledge this they will keep failing.

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Mutale97

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@silentchief: nobody cared about iron man, thor, captain america, black panther or the guardians. Normies dont care about race or gender swapping characters and they have done that before pre-endgame. Female audiences do care about the movies. No one really knows how well a movie will do they can guess but its never a guarantee.

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santinegrete

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@silentchief: I disliked one of the protagonists as a character, that was all it took for me. I elaborated more in a comment above, but if you are right for me, then by extension those youtubers were.

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crashchaos

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Edited By crashchaos

@silentchief: You've been watching waaaaaaay too many of those YouTube vids complaining and whining about wokeism. Also, who exactly was race-swapped other than Taskmaster's gender? You make it sound like a bunch of characters were race swapped or something.

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Silentchief

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@crashchaos: " Youtubers" are just telling you what a much larger silent majority already thinks. The difference is the average consumer doesn't create a " YouTube" video or go to forums. What they do is shrug their shoulders and say " no thanks" and stop going to your movies. It's been happening since after Endgame with the MCU bleeding fans by the movie. Who have they race gender swapped?

Taskmaster was gender swapped

Kang was race swapped

Namor was race swapped

Dar-Benn was race and gender swapped.

Heimdale was race swapped

Hogun was race swapped

High evolutionary was race swapped

And yes the " The ancient one" was race swapped.

Each and every one of those was dumb and uncessary.

Not only that they focused on all their efforts on shiity characters that were created in 2011 and beyond which are basically just diversity swaps of the core characters.

Ill tell you this now and you can act surprised later when it fails. " the young avengers " will flop. The iron heart show will flop and if any of these leaks are true about Fantastic 4 and X-Men the MCU is dead.

X-Men and Fantastic 4 is all that can save them and they need to cast perfectly or else they are better off selling Marvel.

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Mutale97

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@silentchief: ffh came after e dgame did well.

sHang did well

Eternals while mixed did decently

Multiverse of madness did well,

Love and thunder did well

Wakanda forever did well,

Guardians vol 3 did well,

Sure quantumania underperformed and yes the marvels bombed but other than that they havent been bleeding money.

When i think of kang i think of guy with a blue mask not a white guy,besides he was voiced by a black actor in earths mightiest heroes.

Ur ignoring all the characters they introduced like the eternals,shang-chi, moon knight, werewolf by night , she-hulk who were introduced in the 70s

Or echo a character first introduced in the 90s.

The only characters that have been introduced post 2010 is america chavez, ms marvel, ironheart.

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santinegrete

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@crashchaos: The ancient one was also race swapped. Not that I really care, but there is more than one.

Still I don't get why that is an important aspect. I'm a latino and I don't demand latinos in movies to watch them. I demand quality, like what they did with Spiderverse movies.

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Silentchief

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@santinegrete: I don't give a shit about representation I care about authenticity. The studios put diversity front and center.

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ID0ntKn0w7

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Good points, but no mention of the much-dreaded Disneyfication that was talked about back when the Mouse first bought up Marvel and Star Wars. It took a long time to hit, but right after Endgame it crescendo'd dramatically.

With X-Men and Spiderman (2), comic book movies were smuggled back into the public consciousness. Don't uncritically accept the early assertion in this article that people don't by and large like superhero movies (Batman, ahem). At the turn of the century people just didn't find them to be terribly adult. Raimi and Singer (and later Favreau) gave us increasingly more grounded, character-first films. The capes and the "fights" consisting largely of an actor standing in front of a greenscreen looking determined were replaced, albeit at first with second-rate wire work but hey, nobody's perfect. They were less cartoonish.

Now, with rushed CGI, minimal characterization and plot development, and swapped out "Superman Jr" -type characters, we're back to a corny Saturday morning cartoon vibe. It's all very cynical, and no amount of diverse casting will conceal it (minorities and women and queer people deserve good characters and stories too, Disney), and I guess everybody is finally acknowledging it now that that cynicism has dramtically affected Disney's wallet.

If they don't right the ship, I'll be sad that I never got to see a proper MCU take on the X Men, but they did indeed have a good run.

And hey, I loved Multiverse of Madness. It was classic Raimi

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BLKCrystilMage

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@id0ntkn0w7: The first Sam Raimi Spider-Man is still my favorite comic book movie. CGI-heavy action scenes with some quippy dialogue in lieu of a plot and character growth is fun for a while, but it's not indefinitely sustainable.

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santinegrete

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@id0ntkn0w7: that cynism is from writers, audience, or disney suits & stock owners?

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ID0ntKn0w7

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Edited By ID0ntKn0w7

@santinegrete: forgive the late response. I just got the notification today. Thanks, Gamespot!

All, but most especially, the people on top.

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Zartan3000

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I have watched all the MCU TV shows and movies with the exception of 'What If' which just came out ... but I have watching everything since 'Black Widow' on Disney + !!! ...... Whereas from 'Iron Man' to 'Spider Man Far From Home' I went to the theatres....So I would be interested to see the viewership stats there combined with ticket sales... But yeah I think it's gotten way too commercial with too many A-listers and not enough unknowns... I think they need to hit pause and maybe do a big reboot and/or team up movie. I am looking forward to the DCU by James Gunn actually a lot ....

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Mutale97

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@Zartan3000: they dont need a reboot

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s9743469

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Goes to show, if all you do is focus on DEI, all you get is DIE.

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Mutale97

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@s9743469: as if movies featuring white leads are automatically successful?

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BestDad94

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Yeah, I had a really hard time even getting to Endgame. After that, I went to a few in theaters, but quickly realized it wasn’t worth my time and money. I have literally zero interest in Marvel movies going forward.

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Boodger

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It'll recover eventually, it will just take some time. Once some of their bigger characters (Xmen, F4, Deadpool, more Spiderman) hit the ground running and a clear arc moving forward becomes evident, general audiences will reinvest. Plus, with more creative oversight and less projects each year, the quality will get better.

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Mutale97

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@boodger: just telling good stories will get people reinvested.

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mogan

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mogan  Moderator

Stories only last so long, and the MCU's ended with End Game. Disney's trying to keep the story going but they don't have a clear direction and they're trying to keep their new movies connected to the previous story arc, which only serves to remind people that the MCU's story is over and that these new movies bring nothing interesting to the table.

Set the MCU down for a while and give the creative people a chance to come up with some new ideas for it.

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Mutale97

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@mogan: how they dont bring anything interetsing the multi erse os interesting. The direction they have is the multiverse. How are the new movies connected to the previous arc.

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BLKCrystilMage

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@mogan: I've been saying for years that a well-made adaptation of Fury: My War Gone By would be Best Picture material, but good luck getting writers, directors, and actors good enough to make it happen. Not that a major studio would ever greenlight it anyway.

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santinegrete

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@mogan: I find you are kinda right about the direction. I don't know what they are fighting for, but those small scale conflicts in the series were at least interesting. STill, they were concluded, so I don't know there the thing is going since I haven't watched any MCU movie this year.

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