.:: 2008 Belgian GP Thread ::.

  • 82 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#1 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

.:: 2008 Belgian GP ::.

Welcome to the 2008 Belgian GP thread, where you can discuss anything to do with this weekend's race. cjek will update the thread with the latest times as they happen.

Photobucket

RANDOM FACT

Kimi Raikkonen looks to become the third person to win 4 Belgian GP events in-a-row, behind Jim Clark (1962-5) and Ayrton Senna (1988-91).

POINTS OF DISCUSSION

  1. Valencia brought up an interesting point - whilst Massa did have an unsafe pit exit, should a driver be penalised on-track or not? And if so, what should be the penalty?
  2. Speaking of Valencia, what did you make of the first race there?
  3. Spa-Francorchamps is well known to be a Raikkonen circuit, but recently his performance is not so great. How much of a bounceback can the Iceman have in the Title race at a circuit which he should win at?
  4. Also with underperforming, what's happening to "Quick Nick"?
  5. The world championship has reached the final third. What can you see happening after the following:
    1ST THIRD:
    HAMILTON: 38 pts.
    MASSA: 34 pts.
    RAIKKONEN: 35 pts.

    2ND THIRD:
    HAMILTON: 70 pts. (+32)
    MASSA: 64 pts. (+30)
    RAIKKONEN: 57 pts. (+22)

ITV-F1 PRESENTS LIVE STREAMING OF THE BELGIAN GRAND PRIX WEEKEND: FRIDAY PRACTICES, QUALIFYING & THE RACE

Avatar image for KimisApprentice
KimisApprentice

2425

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 KimisApprentice
Member since 2006 • 2425 Posts

I desperately want to see Kimi come back in this last third, and Spa is very much a Kimi and Ferrari circuit. Hopefully Kimi will stick it on pole and join Jim Clark and Ayrton Senna in that 4 wins in a row at Spa club. However as it stands, he isn't quite there.

As for the pit-lane infringement, personally, they were both in the fast lane of the pits, side by side, no danger there, it happens often. The only dangerous bit was when Massa was getting near the wall where it narrows, where he backed off. If it WERE dangerous however I would expect an in race penalty.

The first race at Valencia? Disappointing it had alot of promise, but with the cars as they are it was more or less Monaco on steroids.

I have no idea whats wrong with Heidfeld, since he grew that goofy beard and got his My Chemical Romance look he has slowed down, coincedence? I THINK NOT! (kidding) The car just doesn't seem to suit him quite as much as it does Kubica.

Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#3 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

THURSDAY PRESS CONFERENCE: Nick Heidfeld (BMW Sauber), Kazuki Nakajima (Williams), Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari) & Sebastian Vettel (Toro Rosso)

Q: Kazuki, this is your first time here in F1. But you have been looking at it on the simulator?
Kazuki Nakajima:
Yeah, not very much but I did some work on the simulator. Obviously it is not exactly the same as a real track but I got some feeling of how to drive here in an F1 car.

Q: What is different when you use a simulator?
KN:
Obviously, I could get some feeling of how the speed is on the track or how the car balance will be or a feeling for the braking point. That is the thing. Obviously for Valencia I think it helped us quite a lot.

Q: You had your best qualifying performance ever in Valencia. What made the difference do you think?
KN:
Nothing really but fortunately we had a very good car, much more competitive than the last few races. That helped me a lot and for Nico as well. The weekend was quite good for us. For me, especially, apart from the first lap of the race. We had a good feeling. It just gave me a bit more confidence, especially as we had had a difficult few races, so it was very good to come back to a good position.

Q: What is the situation for next year?
KN:
I have not got any for news for next year but I really hope to stay at Williams. That would be my best choice, I think. I don't think there are many other choices. But I think to stay at Williams is the ideal thing for me.

Q: And there is a possibility of staying at Williams?
KN:
I hope so.

Q: Is there a good possibility?
KN:
I think so, but we will have to wait for the team's decision.

Q: Sebastian, it was your best ever qualifying performance as well in Valencia?
Sebastian Vettel:
Yeah, it was true.

Q: What made the difference with you?
SV:
We had a very, very good weekend in Valencia. Everything was running perfect, I think. We had a very good preparation day on Friday and obviously a very good qualifying day on Saturday and also a good race. It is difficult to point out what made the difference. In the end we were trying to do our best. I think the car was very competitive there. I like the circuit and I think that was the key to success.

Q: In the press release Giorgio Ascanelli said 'we must be doing something right, but I don't know what.'
SV:
As I say we had a perfect weekend. We have been working very hard to get where we are now and now the job is to stay there. I think it will be difficult enough, but if you see the development we have made during the season the whole team has changed. The whole attitude if different now, everybody is extremely motivated and extremely willing to achieve something. It has not always been like that in the past. We have become much stronger than we were and I think that is the key, that is the reason why. There is no secret or anything funny or anything special. We came to Valencia and we had no new parts, we had no track knowledge like everyone, so it was down to pure work I guess.

Q: Do you think the next two circuits will suit you and the car?
SV:
I think so. Monza is a bit extreme but I think both kinds of circuit, the layout and the characteristics should suit our car. Here we have a lot of fast corners and I think that should be very good for us and Monza obviously there is a lot of straight lines but I think we have an efficient car, so I think we should be in a strong position there as well. But all in all you have to say we have to keep our feet on the ground. In Valencia, as I say, we had the perfect weekend and we were even able to follow a bit the pace of the guys in front and that was very surprising. Obviously, you cannot expect that to happen every race. We have to focus and we have to try to maximise our own potential every time possible. If we can get some points or get close to the top 10 positions, it is very good for us.

Q: Do you remember your race here last year?
SV:
It was quite short. At first I had a technical problem, then a problem with the steering rack. I was going up to Eau Rouge and the car didn't steer like I wanted it to. It was quite a bit funny. We retired, so it was not the best race for me.

Q: You would prefer to wipe that one?
SV:
Exactly.

Q: Kimi, you are the winner here for the last three years.
Kimi Raikkonen:
Yes, it has been a good place. Hopefully it will be this year also.

Q: A lot has been written about your last few races. Do you feel there is a problem of some sort or is it just circumstances?
KR:
Definitely, it hasn't been races that we wanted. There has been a problem but it is not the first time and it is not the end of the life. We have been trying to fix them and hopefully we have found something now and we can get back where we should be. Things go wrong sometimes. You have bad races but hopefully now we can have a stronger weekend and get back.

Q: When you say hopefully you have found something, was that in the test in Monza?
KR:
I mean we tried many things and we were pretty happy with the car but you never know from a test. It can be a good test and then you come to the next place and it is a different circuit with different conditions. It can get back to where it was, so hopefully we found something and we can be stronger but I mean it is too early to say. We had a good feeling from the test but we will see now.

Q: The team have said that they feel the qualifying performance should be better after the Monza test.
KR:
Mainly there. In the races, apart from the last race, we have not been too bad speed-wise but if you are stuck behind other cars, then it is pretty much over at that point. If you can qualify at the front, it will help big time and we should be fine. Anyhow, we try to improve on all areas and hopefully that has happened.

Q: You had the engine failure in Valencia. Are you confident that that is not going to happen again?
KR:
Yeah, I think we know what the problem was and it was more or less the same issue with Felipe's engine the race before. Hopefully we fixed it. So far in testing and on the bench we have been okay. It can happen again but we are pretty sure that we have fixed the problem and it should be fine.

Q: Nick, in some ways you've been through a similar sort of patch but then you were fastest in testing in Monza.
Nick Heidfeld:
Yes, I mean it's quite similar to what Kimi said. Testing goes well but that doesn't mean that it will be perfect here. But definitely I was happy with Monza testing. We tried a couple of things which most likely will only work at Monza but anyway, we go there after this race, so it's not looking too bad and we also tried some small things which should help me.

Q: Are you feeling a bit under pressure? Mario Theissen has been quoted as saying he needs points from both drivers now.
NH:
Yes, but I put myself under pressure more than anybody else could do from the outside. It's pretty clear; if one car finishes on the podium and I finish ninth, nobody needs to tell me anything.

Q: So what can you do about it? You're obviously working hard in testing, what more can you do?
NH:
Well, obviously it's all about understanding the problems and then changing some things and trying to go quicker. I was in a similar situation a while ago this year and I thought I had put that behind me and then I was a bit surprised to run into a similar sort of problem again in Valencia. I knew roughly where to search and I think I've made steps forward but we will find out in the next couple of races.

Q: Since you had the problem in qualifying, your qualifying seems to have been quite erratic, it's been up and down.
NH:
It has, actually. I think lap time-wise, pace-wise, I was a lot better than earlier this season, so I was pretty happy with that but on the one hand I had some bad luck with traffic but secondly, I made more mistakes than usual but that's obviously something I'm also working on but I don't think that's as difficult to change as the pace problems I had earlier in the season. Although qualifying didn't go perfectly, I was rather happy with the pace I had.

Q: You qualified sixth here and finished fifth last year, is it a circuit on which you would hope to do the same again?
NH:
Well, you always hope for more obviously but if I would finish there, most likely it wouldn't be a bad result but nobody knows what will happen here on Sunday. The weather forecast isn't the best. It could rain which I wouldn't mind because I enjoy driving in wet conditions but you cannot predict and say I would be happy with this or that.

QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR

Q: (Heikki Kulta - Turun Sanomat) Kimi, you have a variety of weather here; what would you prefer for this weekend?
KR:
Either it's dry or raining all the time. It's much easier for everybody. When it gets between those two weathers you have more luck involved. It's more if you get it right or wrong when it starts raining and it gets drier, so hopefully it's... for me, anything is good but maybe dry would nice.

Q: (Juha Päätalo - Financial Times Deutschland) Kimi, last year you had similar problems in qualifying but you were able to solve that. How much can the work of last year help you to find a solution because it hasn't yet been that way. Is the car very different from last year on that point?
KR:
No, but we haven't solved the issues yet. We had similar issues last year at some point of the season. We were pretty OK at the beginning of this season and then it seems to have turned a bit worse. Hopefully we will get back to where we were earlier on but we will see now if we have made improvements or not, then we will go from there.

Q: (Mike Doodson) This is a question for all four of you about pit stops. David Coulthard recently said that he thought the racing would be more interesting if there were no pit stops. He thinks that pit stops distort the results of the races. We've also had incidents with fires in Hungary and a mechanic who was hurt in Valencia. I'm interested to know if you drivers would be interested or would like to see the end of pit stops, which, incidentally, came in 15 years ago.
NH:
Well, hopefully we will see more overtaking next year with the new regulations but until we've had a couple of races we don't know. And as we all know, overtaking is so difficult that I think it would be a good idea to keep the pit stops to at least see some (overtaking).
KR: We see now most of the overtaking taking place at the pit stops, so without them, we probably will be running behind each other more, nothing really happening. Sometimes people get hurt in the pit stops unfortunately but that's part of racing, so it hasn't been too bad.
SV: I think when we are about to retire, we are looking for more interesting races as well because we will be in a position to watch the races. Honestly, in the car the races are pretty interesting and you are pretty busy. As Nick said, next year there should be more overtaking, so hopefully that by the time we are retiring the racing is more interesting.
KN: In my opinion it's better to keep the pit stops because at the moment that's the thing which makes the difference between other drivers, so we have a bit of choice for strategy. Sometimes it makes the racing more interesting.

Q: (Thierry Wilmotte - Le Soir) Kimi, everybody knows that team orders are not allowed, but can you imagine that at the end of the season you can decide on your own to help Felipe to fight for the title?
KR:
It can happen. It all depends on how the next races go and where we are at the end of the year but we race as a team. We will see. Hopefully we don't end up in this situation, hopefully I will be in the championship up to the last race. But you never know what happens.

Q: To all of you: what is on your i-Pod?
KN:
Any kind of music but most of it is Japanese pop. Since I came to Europe, I especially tend to listen more to Japanese songs, maybe to remind me of home.
SV: Any kind really, German folk songs are my favourite. Anything really, a bit of everything.
KR: Mostly Finnish music, all sorts. You wouldn't know, so it doesn't matter what I say.
NH: Yeah, similar to the others, a lot of different stuff, not a lot of c_lassic stuff. No German folk music, more in the direction of R&B, hip-hop, not so much techno, more chill-out but various stuff.
SV: Why don't you like folk songs?
NH: Why do you like it, that's more difficult to answer, I think?
SV: I like the lyrics.
NH: I like the smile on the singers' faces, just like yours.

Q: Is Eau Rouge your favourite corner, and if so why?
NH:
Ah, that's pretty easy to answer for me. It's not my favourite corner. In the past it was very exciting but nowadays with V8s and so much grip, it is not a big challenge any more.
KR: Yeah, from a driving point of view, at least, it's not really a corner. It's more straight for us. In the wet it's quite exciting but as Nick said, before it was much more challenging and the cars are better and we don't go so fast, so it's not a big deal any more.
SV: I still think it's a very nice corner and everybody would miss it if it wasn't part of the calendar but it's true, it's not that challenging, at least in dry conditions. I crashed here in wet conditions and it's more challenging definitely.
KN: For me it was good in GP2 but I will probably find it's going to be easier to go flat-out (in F1), so maybe less fun.

Q: If you were not an F1 driver, what would you be doing?
KN:
That's a very difficult question. I have no idea but I think I would probably be doing something related to racing because that's the only thing that I'm interested in, even not as a driver, maybe doing something in racing.
SV: If I wouldn't have made it, I think I would look for the best possible education to get in the highest position to tell the drivers that made it in motorsport how they should do it the right way.
KR: It would probably be something to do with motorsport. It's always been part of my life, so I wouldn't think it would be much different in some other category or motocross or something like that.
NH: Yeah, pretty similar, actually. I enjoy sports a lot and most likely with an engine involved, probably motorbikes would have been interesting, rallying or whatever, just competing, travelling the world and doing sport.

Q: (Mike Doodson) So which is your favourite corner?
NH:
My favourite corner is the Esses at Suzuka which have not been there (on the calendar this year), so I'm looking forward to next year.
KR: I don't really know. There are a lot of nice corners, so it's hard to pick one.
SV: Yeah, I would say there are too many. Probably the one in Montreal when you go to the personal parking, the right hander is quite nice! No, there are so many corners. I enjoy all of the tracks, so I like a lot of corners.
KN: Yeah, I agree with Nick, I think the Esses or the first and second corners at Suzuka would be nice, which I've never done in an F1 car but I'm sure it will be good.

SOURCE: OFFICIAL F1 WEBSITE

Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#4 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts
Weather updates for Spa show a wet day on Friday, but with reasonable temperatures. Looks like a typical day in Britain. Saturday will be dry with avergae temperatures for Spa, but Sunday is going to be terrible. Heavy rain, extremely cold - If this comes to fuitation, expect a chaotic race.
Avatar image for XSamFisherX
XSamFisherX

3414

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#5 XSamFisherX
Member since 2003 • 3414 Posts

I like the smile on the singers' faces, just like yours.Quick Nick

Aww... How cute.

Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#6 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

FP1 TIMES:

1.MASSA Ferrari 1m47.284s
2.RAIKKONEN Ferrari1m47.623s
3.HAMILTON McLaren1m47.878s
4.KOVALAINEN McLaren1m47.932s
5.ALONSO Renault1m48.104s
6.WEBBER Red Bull1m48.428s
7.BOURDAIS Toro Rosso 1m48.557s
8.VETTEL Toro Rosso1m48.958s
9.GLOCK Toyota1m48.997s
10. PIQUETRenault1m49.068s
11. KUBICA BMW1m49.139s
12.HEIDFELD BMW1m49.185s
13.ROSBERG Williams 1m49.611s
14.TRULLI Toyota1m49.625s
15.COULTHARD Red Bull 1m49.849s
16.FISICHELLA Force India 1m49.986s
17. SUTILForce India1m50.117s
18.NAKAJIMA Williams1m50.125s
19.BUTTON Honda 1m50.464s
20. BARRICHELLO Honda 1m50.905s

SOURCE: ITV-F1

ED: Where I am right now, I think we've got the weather the Belgians were meant to have.

Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#7 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

Absolute Chaos in FP2. According to Live text I'm reading:

Webber off
Coulthard crashes
Raikkonen crashes
Alonso off
Fisichella crashes
Piquet crashes

The heavens opened big time by the sound of it. Can't wait to watch the highlights, although would've loved to watch the proper thing :(

Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#8 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

FP2 STANDINGS:

1. ALONSO Renault 1m48.454s

2. MASSA Ferrari 1m48.504s

3. KOVALAINEN McLaren 1m48.740s

4. HAMILTON McLaren 1m48.805s

5. RAIKKONEN Ferrari 1m49.328s

6. ROSBERG Williams 1m49.405s

7. VETTEL Toro Rosso 1m49.427s

8. SUTIL Force India 1m49.585s

9. TRULLI Toyota 1m49.715s

10. HEIDFELD BMW 1m49.725s

11. KUBICA BMW 1m49.875s

12. COULTHARD Red Bull 1m49.922s

13. BOURDAIS Toro Rosso 1m49.948s

14. GLOCK Toyota 1m50.281s

15. NAKAJIMA Williams 1m50.364s

16. FISICHELLA Force India 1m50.740s

17. BUTTON Honda 1m50.925s

18. BARRICHELLO Honda 1m51.238s

19. PIQUET Renault 1m51.334s

20. WEBBER Red Bull 1m51.640s

SOURCE: ITV-F1

Avatar image for KimisApprentice
KimisApprentice

2425

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9 KimisApprentice
Member since 2006 • 2425 Posts

Big differences in the Renaults and good to see Honda at the sharp end of the grid.

Hahaha :D just tricking!

Ferrari seem clear of McLaren at the front for now...

Avatar image for cjek
cjek

14327

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts

Sorry about missing the other sessions timings, I was a little busy with school related stuff

Avatar image for kipi19
kipi19

4590

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#11 kipi19
Member since 2005 • 4590 Posts
Hmmm, Qualiy seems to show the Lewis and Felipe are ready to duke it out for the race win, Lewis will want to protect turn one all the way to Les Combes, He can't afford Massa to get in front, He'll need Heikki to be very brave and try to attack Felipe
Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#12 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts
Yep, I'll take a Hamilton pole for my birthday thanks :D even if I did actually watch qualifying at 1AM of the day after my birthday... :lol:
Avatar image for cjek
cjek

14327

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#13 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts

All I can say is.. what.. the.. hell. What a crazy finish to the race, I really thought Raikkonen had won it.. then Hamilton.. then Raikkonen again for a second.. then Hamilton finally won it after doing tortoise speeds around the last lap.

Avatar image for mjk1
mjk1

10309

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts
Absolutely crazy end to the race, felt sad for kimi when he crashed.
Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#15 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

Anyone order carnage to the extreme?

WHAT THE HELL!?! ******* AMAZING END!

I'm in stitches right now, but if anything, we saw both sides of Kimi today. He was dominant once he took the lead, and the real Kimi was back at long last. And then the last 2 laps, sure, he wanted the win, but common sense says play it safe and go for 2nd. But no, he had to try and push when he had absolutely no grip. Thus, he visits wall. Massa wouldn't have pushed him to be honest, so it's all his own fault tbf. It's a real shame because it's now a 2-way race for the title. Kimster blew it for himself, and when he'd been the real Kimi for 99% of the race.

Also, this investigation - if it's about the tussle at the end of the lap, Lewis did let Kimi back - so you'd REALLY have to think there's not something right with the stewards if there is a punishment...

One guy you have to feel for is Webber - unfairly punted out by a silly move by Heikki, and then just missed out on the points by just over a second.

Still, it's going to take some time to recover from that end... oh good lord :lol:

Avatar image for cjek
cjek

14327

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts
An incident between Hamilton and Raikkonen is under investigation, believed to be relating to when Hamilton cut the final chicane, allowed Raikkonen to pass and then overtook him again. McLaren say that they told Hamilton to let Raikkonen pass, which he did, but I think the issue is whether or not the momentum from cutting the corner was used to then overtake him in the following corner. According to McLaren, the race director says the move was legit, and from looking at the replay, Hamilton ends up fully behind Raikkonen before passing him again. It looked like an acceptable pass, but yet again we are left in the dark over the result of an event; something I'm quite frankly sick of after the last 2 seasons of off track debate.
Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#17 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

An interesting way to look at the top 4's most recent performances is by looking at the points since Britain (when Lewis, Massa & Kimi all had 48 and Robert had 46). In te 4 races since then:

LEWIS: +32
MASSA: +24
KUBICA: +12
RAIKKONEN: +9

That just shows you how much Kimi is struggling recently. And even if you take into account if he'd finished Valencia, that's only about 12/13 he'd have... it also highlights how much Lewis has matured, and how much better Felipe has become.

Avatar image for nravasi
nravasi

511

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#18 nravasi
Member since 2005 • 511 Posts
This ending reminded me why I think Spa is better than all the other circuits put together. What a finish! You don't know the relief I felt when I finally saw Lewis cross the line, I thought my heart would stop when he passed Eau Rouge and the Bus Stop in the last lap. Also, he made a great passing move, in the edge of the rules, but I think it was fair, then he lost the position thanks to a spun Williams, and he recovered from Kimi's spin. And Kimi shouldn't have pushed afterwards, he knew his car behaved worse than the McLaren, had he driven cautiously he might have passed Lewis after the two mistakes he made in the last lap.
Avatar image for General-Doug
General-Doug

230

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#19 General-Doug
Member since 2006 • 230 Posts

Anyone order carnage to the extreme?

WHAT THE HELL!?! ******* AMAZING END!

I'm in stitches right now, but if anything, we saw both sides of Kimi today. He was dominant once he took the lead, and the real Kimi was back at long last. And then the last 2 laps, sure, he wanted the win, but common sense says play it safe and go for 2nd. But no, he had to try and push when he had absolutely no grip. Thus, he visits wall. Massa wouldn't have pushed him to be honest, so it's all his own fault tbf. It's a real shame because it's now a 2-way race for the title. Kimster blew it for himself, and when he'd been the real Kimi for 99% of the race.

Also, this investigation - if it's about the tussle at the end of the lap, Lewis did let Kimi back - so you'd REALLY have to think there's not something right with the stewards if there is a punishment...

One guy you have to feel for is Webber - unfairly punted out by a silly move by Heikki, and then just missed out on the points by just over a second.

Still, it's going to take some time to recover from that end... oh good lord :lol:

Redders1989

Ditto mate. I think that was probably the most epic finishes to Grand Prix I've seen in all my life. Pure Madness! :lol: As for the incident between Lewis and Kimi near the end, if the stewards even think about changing the result of the race over a silly incident like that I'm going to tear them limb from limb and make sure they never ruin a great race ever again!!! :evil:

Avatar image for yuxwallin
yuxwallin

385

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#20 yuxwallin
Member since 2006 • 385 Posts
After Lewis had passed Kimi into La Source, I did wonder whether he would be penalised, as Alonso was in Japan '05 for passing Klien - but after Raikkonen chucked it into the wall, it would be harsh to deny Hamilton the win.
Avatar image for mjk1
mjk1

10309

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21 mjk1
Member since 2003 • 10309 Posts

Hamilton Penalised

Lewis Hamilton has lost his victory at the Belgian Grand Prix after he was given a penalty for cutting a chicane when fighting with Kimi Raikkonen.

The stewards gave Hamilton a drive-through penalty after the race had ended, meaning 25 seconds were added to his time.

The win goes to Brazilian Felipe Massa, second in the race. The penalty has dropped Hamilton to third place in the race.

Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#23 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts
This is the biggest bunch of **** I have ever heard.
Avatar image for kipi19
kipi19

4590

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#24 kipi19
Member since 2005 • 4590 Posts
Blatent ****ing favouritism, i don't care if you're a Ferrari fan or not, if you do not agree with me, then there must be something wrong with you...

I'm so angry right now...
Avatar image for TannerRules
TannerRules

268

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#25 TannerRules
Member since 2006 • 268 Posts
that was.... a shock to say the least:shock:
Avatar image for General-Doug
General-Doug

230

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#26 General-Doug
Member since 2006 • 230 Posts

:shock:....... What ....... the ....... F***!!!!!!!11!!11@one!11 :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:

Boys!! Someone get me a chainsaw and a rusty old axe. I've got some business to do!!!!

Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#27 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

:shock:....... What ....... the ....... F***!!!!!!!11!!11@one!11 :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:

Boys!! Someone get me a chainsaw and a rusty old axe. I've got some business to do!!!!

General-Doug

C'mon boys, we're joining him!

I mean seriously. This year, I'll admit that decisions against McLaren have irritated me, bit in virtually every case, there's a good reason:

MALAYSIA: Yeah, it was deserved for both. I don't get why they'd slow down before the time limit was up, and it was a stupid thing to do.
CANADA: This needs no explanation. Of course Lewis' penalty was deserved here.
FRANCE: Heikki's Quali penalty was unfair tbh, he had absolutely nowhere to go, and the two that got held up made it through anyway. Lewis was questionable, but on replay, I agreed with the stewards - but it was very fine.
BELGIUM: Heikki, again, deserved it, it was a clumsy move on his behalf.

So in retrospect, yes, McLaren have been penalised a lot, but in all but one case it's justified. This seriously has to take the biscuit though. There is no justified reason for this, and you know that statement, when it's released, is going to be some load of BS. Even a few Ferrari-fan peeps I know don't agree with this decision, so that says it all really.

Felipe Massa is a smart man. He won't be happy with this win.

Avatar image for janti_hakouz
janti_hakouz

3190

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28 janti_hakouz
Member since 2004 • 3190 Posts

I think there is some point to the penalty, check this out:

Stewards deemed Hamilton did not properly allow Kimi Raikkonen to re-pass after overtaking the Ferrari driver by cutting the final chicane with just over two laps to go.

Hamilton did let the Finn pass him after the chicane, but he then used the slipstream of the Ferrari to immediately launch a successful overtaking move at the next corner.

Stewards also gave Toyota's Timo Glock a 25 second time penalty for overtaking the Red Bull of Mark Webber under yellow flags, which were waving in the wake of Raikkonen's race-ending crash.

The penalty promoted Webber back into to eighth place.

F1 Live

Source.

That bit might be the reason he won. if he wasn't so close to Kimi after cutting that corner, then maybe Kimi would have been more comfortable and could finish the race.

I'm not favoring anyone here, if any, I'm on Hamiltons side with his awesome driving today, but that's my opinion.

Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#29 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

McLAREN TO APPEAL:

McLaren have lodged an appeal against Lewis Hamilton's demotion to third place in the Belgian Grand Prix, the FIA confirmed on Sunday night.

Hamilton was handed a 25-second penalty for gaining an advantage against then race leader Kimi Raikkonen after cutting the chicane two laps from home at Spa-Francorchamps.

McLaren spent some time on Sunday night evaluating whether they could appeal the penalty, but an FIA statement said that the team had indeed notified the stewards of their intention to appeal.

It means the result of the Belgian Grand Prix will now be decided at a hearing of the FIA's International Court of Appeal.

Ferrari did not hide their criticism of the way Hamilton behaved after cutting the chicane, with their team principal Stefano Domenicali saying he had no doubt the way Hamilton retook the lead was the result of the benefit he had in cutting the chicane.

"Personally, I think it was a little bit extreme," he explained. "It's normal that when you attack that you are racing, but the problem is (of) the advantage that may take by doing a manoeuvre and this is the key point of it, so I think that that's the focus that has to be considered.

"What is really the advantage that you are taking in such conditions that can be used in the second situation at the first corner? That, in my view, is the most important thing. But this is racing."

Domenicali did not wish to make any comments on the decision to impose a 25-second penalty, however.

"As I said to your Italian colleagues, we are not used to commenting on decisions. The only thing I would say is that as soon as we had been summoned by the stewards, we gave our position to the stewards and that was it.

"Then the stewards for sure listened to the Hamilton discussion on that, and that is the decision. On that we don't want to take any further comment."

Ferrari have insisted that they did not lodge any official protest with the race stewards about the matter.

SOURCE: Autosport

ED: Makes sense, really.

Avatar image for wombat26
wombat26

2284

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#30 wombat26
Member since 2005 • 2284 Posts
The appeal certainly makes sense, but I can't see the decision being reversed.
Avatar image for cjek
cjek

14327

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31 cjek
Member since 2003 • 14327 Posts
I'm totally stunned by this penalty, which I believe was unjustified. Hamilton allowed Raikkonen to fully re-pass, and under any other circumstance, with any other cars, it would have been acceptable. He was simply the faster car given the conditions, which, had they looked at previous lap times and the difficulties Raikkonen was having with speed, would have been a massive factor in why Hamilton managed to repass him so quickly. He didn't slipstream him to any real extent, because he drove alongside him after he passed, gradually falling back (he lost speed in relation to Raikkonen, cancelling any benefit of the chicane cut), and then pulled in behind him, Raikkonen responded, leaving a hole for Hamilton to pull around him. I very much doubt the appeal will be successful, but the race result is completely unofficial until then I guess.
Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#32 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

RACE STEWARDS STATEMENT:

From: The stewards of the meeting

To: The team manager, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes

The stewards, having received a report from the Race Director and having met with the drivers and team managers involved, have considered the following matter, determine a breach of the regulations has been committed by the competitor and impose the penalty referred to.

No./driver: 22, Lewis Hamilton

Time: 15:21:33

Facts: Cut the chicane and gained an advantage

Offence: Breach of Article 30.3(a) of the 2008 FIA Formula 1 sporting regulations and Appendix L chapter 4 Article 2 (g) of the International Sporting Code.

Penalty: Drive-through penalty (Article 16.3 (a)), since this is being applied at the end of the race, 25 seconds will be added to the driver's elapsed race time.

FIA Stewards of the Meeting

Received by: Lewis Hamilton, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes

SOURCE: ITV-F1

Avatar image for The_Gabman
The_Gabman

173

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#33 The_Gabman
Member since 2008 • 173 Posts
This is frustrating counting that Massa only got a 10 000$ penalty last week.......
Avatar image for bloodling
bloodling

5822

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#34 bloodling
Member since 2006 • 5822 Posts
No way!
Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#35 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

Here's something interesting:

McLaren has since said that its data showed that after lifting to let Raikkonen back through, Hamilton was 6kph slower than the Ferrari as they crossed the start/finish line. ITV-F1

So what else will they come out with to say "No, we're right to impose this stupid penalty"?

Avatar image for KimisApprentice
KimisApprentice

2425

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#36 KimisApprentice
Member since 2006 • 2425 Posts

An epic race in the extreme and quite upsetting for a Kimi fan! We're in for a big race for the title.

The penalty, I'm very much on the fence.

On the one hand, yes Lewis did let Kimi back past completely and fairly however had they both come through the corner together Lewis would have to had lifted in a big way. Kimi had the inside line and thus track position so he is more than allowed to put the squeeze on Hamilton thus Kimi would have had a bigger gap between himself and Hamilton but again, Hamilton did let Kimi back through.

The investigation, if you notice, was initiated by the Race Director and not Ferrari. So aim all anger at the FIA :D

Avatar image for caddy
caddy

28709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#37 caddy
Member since 2005 • 28709 Posts

I can't believe the punishment. Hamilton let him through after he cut the corner, and then proceeded to overtake Raikkonen again. The decision is bad, and I bet the appeal will fail too.

Oh, by the way, hi guys, I just joined this union :)

Avatar image for kipi19
kipi19

4590

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 22

User Lists: 0

#38 kipi19
Member since 2005 • 4590 Posts

Hey there, always great to see new faces around here somewhere :)

Avatar image for chocolate1325
chocolate1325

33007

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 306

User Lists: 0

#39 chocolate1325
Member since 2006 • 33007 Posts
It was a very harsh decision and hopefully it won't end up deciding the world championship.
Avatar image for nravasi
nravasi

511

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#40 nravasi
Member since 2005 • 511 Posts

You can always count on the FIA to ruin great races. Hamilton lets a slow car pass him after a mistake and then overtakes it, and he's penalized with 25 seconds. Massa exits pits like a madman and he's only fined with $10000. Kimi ruins Sutil's race of his life and he gets by with no sanctions. And all is right in the Ferrari One, I mean Formula One.

I'm very angry. I just hope the appeal serves justice, but I'm not very hopeful

Avatar image for kingdre
kingdre

9456

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#41 kingdre
Member since 2005 • 9456 Posts
****ing stewards. What else did they want Hamilton to do? He let Kimi pass anyway. This McLaren hate is getting ridiculous.
Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#42 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

Just taking a brief moment away from the stewards' appauling decision, it's unusual to see Heidfeld smiling for once! :shock:

Anywhoos, back to the steward hating :D

Avatar image for kingdre
kingdre

9456

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#43 kingdre
Member since 2005 • 9456 Posts

Anywhoos, back to the steward hating :D

Redders1989

**** the stewards. :|

Avatar image for XSamFisherX
XSamFisherX

3414

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#44 XSamFisherX
Member since 2003 • 3414 Posts
Man I've never loved the stewards so much.
Avatar image for caddy
caddy

28709

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#45 caddy
Member since 2005 • 28709 Posts
Here is a BBC interview with Niki Lauda, former World Champion. He basically says what most of us have already said.
Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#46 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

Kovalainen's race was ended by a gearbox failure. Only the 2nd mechanical retirement for McLaren in almost the last 2 years. Never thought you'd hear that, eh? :lol:

Also, cjek, take the footage from Lewis and Kimi from the end of lap 42 until the end of lap 43 and add the Benny Hill music to it please? =D

Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#47 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

PETITION AGAINST STEWARDS' DECISION

You are able to make comments and send them to the FIA, if you so wish.

As I write, 14,682 signatures have been made.

Avatar image for comp_atkins
comp_atkins

38934

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#48 comp_atkins
Member since 2005 • 38934 Posts

while happy to see massa within 4 of the championship now, i do not really see anything lewis did wrong. he did give position back and then re-took first place. seems he followed the letter of the rules.

Avatar image for Redders1989
Redders1989

13410

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#49 Redders1989
Member since 2006 • 13410 Posts

Well this'll make people even happier - Raikkonen was under investigation for passing Lews under yellow flags, but did not take action because they deemed it "not worthy of their consideration"!

STEWARDS DIDN'T INVESTIGATE RAIKKONEN:

Ferrari have confirmed that the stewards did not question Kimi Raikkonen over why he overtook Lewis Hamilton under a yellow flag when they summoned him after the Belgian GP.

As Hamilton crossed the line to claim an apparent victory in Spa, notification came from the stewards that they were investigating an incident involving cars 1 and 22.

While it was subsequently confirmed that Hamilton was under investigation for cutting the chicane shortly before overtaking Raikkonen's Ferrari, the Finn's own driving came under heavy scrutiny after the race when it was noted that he overtook Hamilton later on the same lap despite yellow flags being waved to indicate that Nico Rosberg had slid off the track.

While Hamilton apparently slowed down, Raikkonen overtook the McLaren which was then required to take to the grass in order to avoid a collision. However, despite the obvious danger of the incident, the stewards deemed it not worthy of their consideration.

Specifically asked by Autosport whether Raikkonen had been questioned over the incident, Ferrari boss Stefano Domenicali confirmed: "No, no, no, at least not... when we were summoned we were asked to speak about the manoeuvre at the last chicane between Kimi and Lewis and events after that, so just speak about that."

SOURCE: MSN NEWS

Avatar image for kono11
kono11

947

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#50 kono11
Member since 2007 • 947 Posts

I can't believe the punishment. Hamilton let him through after he cut the corner, and then proceeded to overtake Raikkonen again. The decision is bad, and I bet the appeal will fail too.

Oh, by the way, hi guys, I just joined this union :)

Caddy06_88

welcome, man!

the race is weird enough at the last lap. I can't believe Bourdais that was on third is thrown out to 7th.