.:: 2010 Turkish GP - 28-29-30 May ::.

.:: 2010 TURKISH GRAND PRIX ::.

Welcome to the 2010 Turkish GP Thread. cjek and mjk1 will keep the thread updated with the latest times as they happen.

RANDOM FACT

Sebastian Vettel became the first man to qualify on pole but fail to win the race in Turkey last year.

CIRCUIT STATS

2010 Race Number: 7
Circuit Event Number: 6
Circuit Length: 3.32 miles
Number of Laps: 58
Lap Record: 1:24.770 (J.P.Montoya, 2005)

2009 Podium
1. Jenson Button (Brawn GP)
2. Mark Webber (Red Bull)
3. Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull)

POINTS OF DISCUSSION

1. The track has become notorious for being Felipe Massa's land. With his current form, and with Red Bull's current form, can he make it 4 wins from 6, or is it too much to ask?
2. Speaking of Red Bull, both currently sit at the top of the championship on 78 points each. Which driver do you feel at this stage looks best to take the title - or finish ahead of the other?
3. Monaco also sparked the debate of the wording of Sporting Regulation 40.13 - "If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking." - should drivers be allowed to fight for position if they're all bunched together for the final corner, even if it heightens the risk of an accident?
4. Monaco marked the first time all 3 of the new teams failed to finish the race - is this surprising to you, or are you glad that - whilst they may not have the speed - they at least have the reliability to finish?
5. Do you think that with extra fuel and different tyres, the infamous turn 8 will begin to cause drivers problems yet again?

SCHEDULE FOR WEEKEND (All Times UK)

Fri 28 May: Practice 1 0800-0930; Practice 2 1200-1330

Sat 29 May: Practice 3 0900-1000; Qualifying 1200

Sun 30 May: Race 1300

WEEKEND WEATHER

FRIDAY: Sunny, Max. 28 deg. cent.
SATURDAY: Sunny, Max. 27 deg. cent.
SUNDAY: Light Rain Shower, Max. 25 deg. cent.

PRESS CONFERENCE SCHEDULE

THURSDAY:Rubens Barrichello (Williams), Karun Chandhok (HRT), Michael Schumacher (Mercedes), Jarno Trulli (Lotus) & Mark Webber (Red Bull). Midday BST.

FRIDAY:Ross Brawn (Mercedes), Stefano Domenicali (Ferrari), Adam Parr (Williams) & Franz Tost (Toro Rosso). 1PM BST.

QUALIFYING:Mark Webber (Red Bull), Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) & Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull).

RACE:Lewis Hamilton (McLaren), Jenson Button (McLaren) & Mark Webber (Red Bull).

BBC CIassic GP's
1981 San Marino GP | 1982 Swiss GP | 1982 US GP West | 1985 European GP | 2009 Turkish GP
Extended Highlights: 1985 European GP | 2009 Turkish GP

The Red Light: Turkish GP Preview

BBC Presents the 2010 Turkish GP

PREVIOUS SESSIONS
Friday Practice 1
Friday Practice 2
Qualifying
Race
Forum

And this marks the fourth year in a row I will miss Turkey qualifying, meaning I have never seen qualifying here...XSamFisherX

Even though this is the 6th year of the Turkish GP?

1. While the Ferrari is good I think the Red Bull is in a class of it's own and he doesn't have a hope of a win in normal conditions.
2. Webber is on a role but Vettel is made of stern stuff as well. Vettel is younger, probably more hungry, and arguably faster in most conditions but if Webber gets everything right he is quite unbeatable - see all his wins.
3. The rules need clarification that's all I've got to say.
4. Surprised it took so long to happen personally, they've been more reliable than expected in my eyes, if slow.
5. The drivers should experience more oversteer early in the piece with the higher loads on the rear and more understeer as the stints go on and the arguably weaker front tyres lose their grip - ultimately lap times will suffer more heavily in sector 2 than the 1st and last sectors.

[QUOTE="XSamFisherX"]And this marks the fourth year in a row I will miss Turkey qualifying, meaning I have never seen qualifying here...Redders1989

Even though this is the 6th year of the Turkish GP?

And now I'm back to watching SPEED sadly. Bye bye Crofty and Davidson. Hello advertisements four laps from the end.XSamFisherX

Know of the infamous ITV incident? The great 2005 San Marino battle between Alonso and Schumi, and with three laps to go, they had an advert break. Came back with one lap to go, and to "make up for it", they replayed the final three laps straight after - a buzzkill when you know the end result already.

Another ad blunder from ITV was the 2006 Japanese Grand Prix, Schumacher had just pitted and as it he was about to go under the bridge, his engine blew, I saw smoke and then it was ads... I spent 3-4mins praying it was him XDkipi19

I wasn't around for that one, I was on holiday watching it on a Greek channel which showed it happening live.

HERBERT TO ADVISE STEWARDS IN TURKEY

Johnny Herbert will return to the role of the stewards' driver advisor at this weekend's Turkish Grand Prix.

The former F1 driver undertook the stewards' duties in Malaysia earlier this year, and will once again offer input to the three other stewards for this weekend's event in Istanbul.

The other stewards are Radovan Novak, Dr. Gerd Ennser, and Haluk Unsal.

SOURCE: Autosport

With Seb's poor "Luscious Liz" damaged, the German has moved on to his new car, "Randy Mandy".

McLaren and Mercedes looking good then..

Finally, the Council announced that, with immediate effect, drivers are banned from wearing jewellery while competing, with "jewellery" defined as "body piercing and heavy chains".Official F1 Website on 31st March 2005

Lewis Hamilton was wearing studs in his ears during Friday Practice - unbelievably, that means he can be penalised for it!

How can Red Bull have such a bad session and STILL be 1st and 4th!?!

If that's not rubbing it in the face of all the other teams, I don't know what is.

PRACTICE 3

Pos  Driver         Team                   Time              Laps
 1.  Vettel         Red Bull-Renault         1:27.086            18
 2.  Rosberg        Mercedes                 1:27.359  + 0.273   16
 3.  Hamilton       McLaren-Mercedes         1:27.396  + 0.310   14
 4.  Webber         Red Bull-Renault         1:27.553  + 0.467   15
 5.  Kubica         Renault                  1:27.784  + 0.698   20
 6.  Alonso         Ferrari                  1:27.861  + 0.775   18
 7.  Schumacher     Mercedes                 1:27.879  + 0.793   16
 8.  Button         McLaren-Mercedes         1:27.963  + 0.877   17
 9.  Massa          Ferrari                  1:27.969  + 0.883   20
10.  Petrov         Renault                  1:28.344  + 1.258   18
11.  Buemi          Toro Rosso-Ferrari       1:28.610  + 1.524   22
12.  de la Rosa     Sauber-Ferrari           1:28.652  + 1.566   20
13.  Alguersuari    Toro Rosso-Ferrari       1:28.734  + 1.648   21
14.  Kobayashi      Sauber-Ferrari           1:29.036  + 1.950   20
15.  Hulkenberg     Williams-Cosworth        1:29.044  + 1.958   18
16.  Liuzzi         Force India-Mercedes     1:29.211  + 2.125   15
17.  Barrichello    Williams-Cosworth        1:29.305  + 2.219   14
18.  Trulli         Lotus-Cosworth           1:30.618  + 3.532   19
19.  Kovalainen     Lotus-Cosworth           1:30.884  + 3.798   22
20.  Glock          Virgin-Cosworth          1:31.341  + 4.255   21
21.  di Grassi      Virgin-Cosworth          1:32.180  + 5.094   16
22.  Senna          HRT-Cosworth             1:32.230  + 5.144   21
23.  Chandhok       HRT-Cosworth             1:32.762  + 5.676   19
24.  Sutil          Force India-Mercedes     No time              1

All Timing Unofficial

AUTOSPORT

Red Bull make it 7 out of 7 ..

Interesting quote from Fernando Alonso...

We are behind Red Bull, McLaren, Renault and Mercedes.Fernando Alonso

Are Ferrari really the 5th fastest team overall?

VETTEL'S CAR HIT BY ROLL BAR FAILURE

A broken rear roll-bar was the cause of Sebastian Vettel's problems in final qualifying for the Turkish Grand Prix, Red Bull Racing has discovered.

Vettel complained of a locking front left brake in the Q3 session - which cost him any chance of beating team-mate Mark Webber to the pole position.

And although it was suspected the issue could be a repeat of the brake problems that he suffered in Spain, investigations by Red Bull Racing have uncovered another part of the car was to blame.

Team principal Christian Horner said: "It looks like it was the roll-bar linkage. With no control over the roll of the car, as soon you turn in the car just rolls over. So he just locked the inside front wheel as it stuck up in the air."

Although parc ferme regulations mean that the team cannot touch the car tonight to make any change, Red Bull will be able to replace any broken parts on Sunday morning.

Horner also said that the set of tyres Vettel will have to start on did not suffer any flat spots when he locked up.

"We cannot see any damage," he said.

SOURCE: Autosport

What a race. Silly drive from the Red Bulls... Mark should probably have given more space, Vettel shouldn't have tried turning right INTO Webber... Good to see some serious racing between the McLaren boys, woulda been good to see them crash out themselves :lol: kidding, they were there to pick anything up and that was the case. Had Red Bull not bit the dust it woulda been a 1-2 for sure.

Ferrari a mile off the pace, Mercedes doing well Renaults mixing it with the Ferrari's as well which is good for them. Virgin make to race end, thats always positive.

DotD: Vitaly Petrov - a darn good showing from the rookie, pity it ended in a puncture.
SotD: None, no one did anything extraordinarily good today in my eyes, but maybe there was something I missed.

I think it's 95%/5% there. Totally Vettel was at major fault, but I think there was a very small move by Webber in to the direction of Vettel (which would seem strange, maybe it's just my eyes). Seb calling Mark "crazy" won't have done him any help, and shows that he still has that immaturity that lost him some major points last year too.

Vettel refusing to put a blame on anyone in the interview though.

KA's started it, so continue it peeps - DotD and SotD nominations. 5PM BST tomorrow is yer deadline.

DotD - Hamilton. Put plenty of pressure on the Red Bulls and, thanks to another Red Bull mess-up, got a win out of it. Managed to hold off Button as well.

SotD - Petrov. KA's reasons.

Dunno if I'm the only one, but I have no idea what the infatuation is with constantly looking into Hamilton's garage during a race, first it was with his dad and now it's his girlfriend. I can see them doing it once or maybe twice a race, but any more than that is incredibly annoying imo.

And that Red Bull incident wow, looked like a hard racing incident but watching the interview now, Webber seems to be choosing his words very wisely and not saying much. Imagine if the Mclaren guys repeated that soon after, that was another close battle but with a more desirable outcome for Mclaren.

Watching the slow replays, Vettel moves to the right which causes it, BUT (and that's a very big BUT), Webber DOES turn his steering wheel very slightly left just before the incident.

Take from that what you will.

DotD: Hamilton; kept his cool despite it seeming impossible to pass Webber, and then Vettel, and then again with the Button battle. Solid drive.

SotD: Petrov; held off Alonso for a very long period of the race, and set the fastest lap somehow.

Think it was just a receipe for disaster; Vettel trying to pull off a very gutsy pass on Webber, who really didn't give him an inch and it ended all wrong for them. If either of them would have been less aggresive I think Red Bull would still have had a 1-2 finish.

DoTD: Hamilton, he was there the entire race, and why he was able to snatch victory from the Red Bull incident.

SoTD: Kobayashi, he drove a quiet race but mainly for him finally getting his first point of the season. And Sauber's first race where both cars finally finished :D

What an exciting race - most entertaining one of the season so far that wasn't weather induced!! Having a 4 car train at the front made for interesting viewing - hope it stays that close! Think Red Bull should take Vettel outside and shoot him - maybe not 100% his fault but certainly in the 95% + region! I think Webber did very well not to be critical in the press conference although while Button was talking you could see Webber showing Hamilton with his hands what happened and he clearly thought Vettel was to blame!

DotD - Has to be Hamilton for the way he hustled and hassled the Red Bulls and for keeping his cool holding Button at bay!

SotD - toss up between Petrov and Kobayashi because both did very well - going to go with Kobayashi for getting his first point!

This is all getting highly interesting now - and very confusing.

Clearly from what we've seen, Vettel moves considerably to the right which causes the incident in the first place, and a very subtle left move from Webber (can only be seen in slow-mo). Webber, Vettel and Horner all refused to put the blame on anyone on the BBC coverage, but let's dig a little deeper.

Ted Kravitz presented data from the four laps prior to the incident - 4 laps before, Webber was up by a tenth - on average, it was about the general pace he was doing over Seb. The following three laps all have Seb three tenths faster than Mark, which is a little confusing that Mark would all of a sudden lose the pace, and Martin Brundle picked up on that during the live coverage itself.

Prior to this data being shown, Ted wrote down key quotes from Webber from the press conference in questions asked off-air, where heseemed to besuggesting that something might have happened.

Then later, Lee McKenzie tells us the media from other networks have been interviewing Horner who sided with Vettel in regards to the incident, rather than putting it down to a racing incident as he had on the BBC.

If I can I'll try and find stuff from the other media and see what they've picked up in regards to this, and - whilst we can go on nothing more than pure speculation - stuff like this can break down a team. Certainly Webber's upturn in form came as a surprise, but I need to find a lot more facts about this before I can see a clear pattern coming out of this. Everything, seemingly, is not as rosey as the team portrayed it on the BBC.

Another thing I don't get is Hamilton's answers in regards to the fact he wasn't his true self when he won. What, exactly, was "confusing"? A race win is a race win, and he worked hard for it. He deserved the win, along with Webber, and I can't see why he doesn't feel he should've if this is the case. As a racer you expect drivers to try and overtake, so not expecting Button doesn't pass either. It certainly seemed in the back and on the podium, Jenson had to re-assure Lewis of something.

I'm finishing this weekend a very confused man.

Anyone else think the Mclaren radio messages about conserve fuel, was probably code for hold position? Since team orders are banned.

And this is going to be an interesting 2 week break before Montreal for Red Bull.

Anyone else think the Mclaren radio messages about conserve fuel, was probably code for hold position? Since team orders are banned.SchumiF1

If they wanted to hold position from the pit stop. This is something else that confuses me too. I thought that it might have been a "hold position" call, but if they had it since the first stop (and Lewis got the call first apparently), then how could they still run that quick?

I just don't understand this race... it's beyond me. it really is.

Anyone else think the Mclaren radio messages about conserve fuel, was probably code for hold position? Since team orders are banned.

SchumiF1

Perhaps, and maybe this is why there was confusion from Hamilton post-race. Something was clearly bothering him enough that he didn't celebrate like he normally would, and had to ask Button about something rather serious before stepping onto the podium. I don't think Hamilton was expecting to be overtaken, based on what he was told over the radio. Specifically the part when he was told that the situation was the same for both cars. Now to me that would possibly suggest that Hamilton interpreted this as a 'hold position' message, whereas Button interpreted it literally as 'save fuel', and just eased of a little, but not as much as Hamilton had. Button did recently say that he doesn't always understand how things are done at McLaren and that he's still learning, so this is possible.

I don't think there will be anything from this McLaren incident; it seems like a misunderstanding, and Hamilton seemed to be much happier when on the BBC Forum later after the race, and if there's a problem it wasn't with Button personally. It's probably been cleared up already

Webber says not responsible for Red Bull shunt. Says Vettel came towards him.legardj on Twitter

Just reinterviewed Christian Horner who now feels Webber pushed Vettel onto dirty side and says Webber slow as saving fuel!LeeMcKenzieF1 on Twitter

That foreign media stuff I was talking about has begun reaching the BBC's interviews.

UPDATE:

Mark Webber was ordered to turn his engine down on the lap that Sebastian Vettel tried the move on him.NobleF1 on Twitter

More details in regards to this soon.

I asked Christian if Vettel was "Red Bull's darling" he said definately not. Both drivers get equal support.LeeMcKenzieF1 on Twitter

WEBBER IN FUEL-SAVING MODE IN CRASH

Mark Webber had to turn his engine down on the lap that Sebastian Vettel tried to pull a move on him for the lead, Red Bull Racing has confirmed, but the team insists that was still no excuse for its drivers colliding.

Mystery surrounded the exact circumstances of what happened on lap 40, when Vettel closed in on Webber and drafted past him on the back straight before they crashed into each other.

Suspicions that all was not straightforward surfaced immediately after the race when Webber told journalists in the post-race press conference that they should 'dig more' to find out what had really happened.

Although the team initially believed that both its drivers were running exactly the same engine settings during their battle for the lead, the post-race debrief on Sunday night revealed that Webber had needed to save fuel and turn his engine down on lap 40 - while Vettel was still able to run at full power.

Even though such an order may not have come directly from the pits via the radio, a readout on Webber's dashboard would probably have told him that he needed to begin conserving fuel.

Vettel had been able to save fuel when running behind other cars early on, and he had enough extra petrol on board to be able to run one more lap at full power before he too would have had to turn his engine down.

That meant his only realistic chance of getting past Webber was on lap 40, when he would have enjoyed a brief car advantage over his team-mate.

Speaking in the Istanbul paddock on Sunday night, team principal Christian Horner said that he was finally aware of what had happened in the race.

"We now have all the facts," he said. "Mark had changed down into a fuel saving mode that cost him a little bit of performance on the straights, which also explains how Sebastian got a very clear run on him.

"The large mistake remains that not enough room was given, and the explanation is there on how Sebastian had managed to get into the tow. He had managed to save an extra kilogramme of fuel - as both cars start the race with the same amount of fuel.

"Effectively he had one more lap of the optimum engine mode, but we couldn't back him off because he was under pressure from Lewis Hamilton behind."

He added: "The frustrating thing is we have given away 28 points today and it should have been a 1-2. Both drivers have also lost points. From a team point of view it doesn't matter which way around they are, but the priority is to finish 1-2 and that is exactly what we should have done today."

Horner did not feel either driver was any more responsible than the other for the crash - but said that he was disappointed they had not given each other enough room.

"I think Mark put Sebastian on the dirty side, gave him just enough room and Sebastian came across obviously quite aggressively - but he was quite a long way down the side.

"So, it was very, very frustrating. We saw the McLarens racing each other and giving themselves a bit more room, we've seen drivers racing each other previously in Malaysia - which springs to mind as a recent race and they are usually very, very good at giving each other room. Today, for whatever reason, that didn't happen."

Horner was confident, however, that there would be no lingering hard-feeling between the drivers over the crash - and that Red Bull Racing would be able to shift its focus on to winning the next race on the calendar in Canada.

"Absolutely. This will be dealt with before we go to Canada. I've spoken to both drivers. They are both grown ups, they are both big boys, they are both competitors, and the most important thing is that we have given away a load of points today. It must not happen again. They must learn from it.

"It is right to let the drivers race. We saw McLaren today letting their drivers race, but when drivers are in the same team it is important that they give each other a bit more respect and concede if one has got a run on the other."

Horner also denied suggestions that the Turkish Grand Prix provided any evidence that Red Bull Racing favoured Vettel over Webber.

"Both our drivers are treated absolutely equally," he said. "They both have the same equipment, they both have the same opportunity. That is a policy we operate and that is the way that the team is - he managed to save a bit more fuel because he was in a slipstream for some of the race and he took advantage of that - as is his right to do.

"He [Vettel] was under a lot of pressure from Hamilton behind, which got him into a position to pass Mark. Our priority at that stage is that we want to win the race. Even if the cars wanted to change position we were still first and second, and it is still 43 points for the team and both drivers were pulling away from McLaren in the championship."

SOURCE: Autosport

Q. (Livio Oricchio - O Estado de Sao Paulo) Mark, was your strategy to keep Vettel inside, not to make him brake before and you keep your position, even if you brake late, he would go straight?

MW: It wasn't my plan to get him on the inside but he got there and I thought OK, I would just stay in the middle, as straight as I can, to make his line as tight as possible into the next corner obviously. And once we got to the braking point, he was obviously in a very strong position, but before we got there he came across to the right and I couldn't react fast enough, because I wasn't at all expecting that at that point, and that's why it happened so fast and there was contact. Of course in Seb's car, it obviously feels very bad for him that I've turned left into him, but I'm pretty confident that there was some drift from his way and then it was a ******* disaster. So you have the line.Post-Race Interview

RED BULL DENY FAVOURING VETTEL

Red Bull's motorsport advisor Helmut Marko insists that both its Formula 1 team's drivers are treated exactly the same - even though he has publicly blamed Mark Webber for trying to defend his position during his Turkish Grand Prix crash.

Webber and team-mate Sebastian Vettel collided in their fight for the lead at Istanbul - throwing away the team's chances of taking the win, and handing victory to main title rivals McLaren.

But although it has emerged that race leader Webber's position was compromised by having to turn his engine down to save fuel, while Vettel was allowed to attack him at full power, Marko is adamant both men are given a fair and equal chance.

"We are handling our team and both drivers in the same way," insisted Marko. "Vettel was under such pressure and if such a situation comes up - you have to look after the team. We still could have been 1-2."

Marko says Vettel was allowed to attack Webber because there was no option to back him off - as Lewis Hamilton was right behind the Red Bull Racing drivers.

"It wasn't a situation where we were racing each other," said Marko. "We were under enormous pressure from the McLarens - they were much faster on the straights so we had to gain our advantage in the corners.

"He had to attack otherwise he would have got overtaken by Hamilton - it would have been completely different if the McLarens were 10-seconds behind, but that wasn't the case."

Asked for his views on the accident, Marko reckons that Vettel was in the right to turn across the track, even with Webber there, since the German had got his nose ahead.

"He [Vettel] was already ahead, at least two metres ahead, and there was a corner to the left side coming, so he had to go for the line," he said. "He cannot brake on the dirt because for sure he knows what happens.

"But it was unnecessary the whole situation. We will talk with everybody quite clearly to make it not happen again."

Marko said that he had spoken to Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz and he explained the Austrian was 'not amused' by the events of Turkey.

SOURCE: Autosport

Just caught up on the race after missing the start and deciding to iplayer it. After last years snooze fest turkey provided one of the best races this year, shame no one was there to watch it.

Dotd: Senna: given the car hasn't changed since the first race it's good to see them mixing it up with the other new teams, shame neither HRT finished,

Sotd: the red bull employee who got into a fight with the journalist as Vettel headed back to the Red Bull motor home

[QUOTE="LeeMcKenzieF1 on Twitter"]Just reinterviewed Christian Horner who now feels Webber pushed Vettel onto dirty side and says Webber slow as saving fuel!Redders1989

Christian Horner Interview  scroll down the page to see the interview, you can certainly tell whose side Christian is on. Maybe that will change given time and a more in-depth look at the incident.

Like Racky just finished watching the race on iplayer and it was certainly good watch.

DotD: Hamilton

StoD: Passing move between Button and Hamilton. 

The Red Light on the Red Bulls

If you're wondering what the inaudible conversation was about prior to the podium in Turkey, here's your answer:

A moment of misunderstanding as Mark Webber was telling Lewis Hamilton about his collision with team-mate Sebastian Vettel in the Turkish Grand Prix could have led to trouble in the McLaren team. "Mark said something about the move," said Hamilton "and I said, 'He did the same thing to me'. And Jenson [Button] thought it was about him. But I said, 'No, no, I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the situation when I was trying to overtake Vettel."BBC Gossip Column

Alonso was lucky to finish as well, apparently - his left rear tyre was severely damaged after his collision with Petrov.