A question of gameplay.(new ffs gp style,and mini side rant)

Have I read this same topic and post somewhere already or am I just have this deja vu thing or something I am hearing?, 'coz I really think I've seen it before, especially the first part of the post.

Anyway, my favorite FFs are FF5, FF7, and FFX, with FF4, 6, 8, and 9 as good games, but not necessarily my faves, FF1 and 3 being all right, while FF2, FFX-2 and XII, althoug I played thoroughly, did not really appeal to me that much.

FF8 has the usually despised "draw" system, but I think it is all right, especially t othose who know what they are doing. FFX and FFXII are just different overall.

Well, just like what I said in one of the other threads, my favorite FF era is the PS1 days where everytime a new FF is announced, I easily become pumped in excitement. Right now, although I have high hopes for FFXIII and Versus XIII, I'm not really paying much attention to it (of course, except, when I am doing news updates). What i want to say is, FF has lost a lot of its charm, though it is still capable keeping me to the series.

As for FPS, as many of the people here know, I'm not really into that genre, so I cannot comment much abou it. :P

Have I read this same topic and post somewhere already or am I just have this deja vu thing or something I am hearing?, 'coz I really think I've seen it before, especially the first part of the post.

Anyway, my favorite FFs are FF5, FF7, and FFX, with FF4, 6, 8, and 9 as good games, but not necessarily my faves, FF1 and 3 being all right, while FF2, FFX-2 and XII, althoug I played thoroughly, did not really appeal to me that much.

FF8 has the usually despised "draw" system, but I think it is all right, especially t othose who know what they are doing. FFX and FFXII are just different overall.

Well, just like what I said in one of the other threads, my favorite FF era is the PS1 days where everytime a new FF is announced, I easily become pumped in excitement. Right now, although I have high hopes for FFXIII and Versus XIII, I'm not really paying much attention to it (of course, except, when I am doing news updates). What i want to say is, FF has lost a lot of its charm, though it is still capable keeping me to the series.

As for FPS, as many of the people here know, I'm not really into that genre, so I cannot comment much abou it. :P

Fantasy_Gamer

I try not and post so much here :P

what did you think of FFX ?

For me FF8 was abit broken in design I really hated the lack of a good equipment system that with the story left me luke warm then the draw and junction systems killed me, FF12 is even more obscure/broken the theme is not bad neither are the characters but good lord between the boring equipment and the broken skill system it makes me want to poke my eyes out.

FFX was also abit lackluster but the customization system kind saved it for me.

Looking at the past FFs I do not have much hope for the new FFs.

IF you ask me, Final Fantasy XII is exactly what needed to happen to the series. It needed to change. Every FF battle system plays out almsot exactly alike. Random encounters and you take turns attacking on a battle screen. FFXII changed tyat by doing away with the random battles and hte battle screen, though it didn ot do away with the active time battle system featured in damn near every FF from 4 onward. It was enough, though. It resulted in the player having more control over the characters than ever before, if they chose to.l You could have just as much or as little control over hte flow of battle as you wanted via the use or not use of gambits. That was part of the brillians of that system. It also was the perfect AI system. No one can honestly claim that the ally AI in Final Fantasy XII is bad. If it isn't geting the job done, reset your gambits. Boom. It is suddenly working again. That was brilliant.

It also moved away from the tired and played out 'ultimate pretty boy villian tries to destroy the world and you must stop him; plot line that Final Fantasy has been using forever in favor of a more political, deeper and darker storyline. This was definitely a breath of fresh air for the series, and the quality of hte writing, directing and voice acting improved drastically with it. It dod something else important, though. It brought back a form of the crystals, which is something that Final Fantasy has laregely forgotten about post 6. There were crystals EVERYWHERE in that game. Even the frickin save points were crystals. IT was great nostalgia, to say the least.

At any rate, Final Fantasy XII is the best 3D FF period and hte best FF since the SNES days. It delivered everything that is required of a tried and true FF. Fantasy worlds. Crystals. In depth characters and story. All that. Not many post VI FF games have delivered all of this, sadly. I, for one, was glad to see it hark back to the days of the sprite era while pushing the series forward for once

IF you ask me, Final Fantasy XII is exactly what needed to happen to the series. It needed to change. Every FF battle system plays out almsot exactly alike. Random encounters and you take turns attacking on a battle screen. FFXII changed tyat by doing away with the random battles and hte battle screen, though it didn ot do away with the active time battle system featured in damn near every FF from 4 onward. It was enough, though. It resulted in the player having more control over the characters than ever before, if they chose to.l You could have just as much or as little control over hte flow of battle as you wanted via the use or not use of gambits. That was part of the brillians of that system. It also was the perfect AI system. No one can honestly claim that the ally AI in Final Fantasy XII is bad. If it isn't geting the job done, reset your gambits. Boom. It is suddenly working again. That was brilliant.

It also moved away from the tired and played out 'ultimate pretty boy villian tries to destroy the world and you must stop him; plot line that Final Fantasy has been using forever in favor of a more political, deeper and darker storyline. This was definitely a breath of fresh air for the series, and the quality of hte writing, directing and voice acting improved drastically with it. It dod something else important, though. It brought back a form of the crystals, which is something that Final Fantasy has laregely forgotten about post 6. There were crystals EVERYWHERE in that game. Even the frickin save points were crystals. IT was great nostalgia, to say the least.

At any rate, Final Fantasy XII is the best 3D FF period and hte best FF since the SNES days. It delivered everything that is required of a tried and true FF. Fantasy worlds. Crystals. In depth characters and story. All that. Not many post VI FF games have delivered all of this, sadly. I, for one, was glad to see it hark back to the days of the sprite era while pushing the series forward for once

fs_metal

The story was not bad the battle system could use tweaking it was to graphically noseiy for me the system was a bit to automated I don't mind the realtime but it needed some TB/RTS interfaces speed throttling got put in the Int. release which is nice but I would have liked more control over indavendaul characters, the equipment and skill systems just ruin the games fun factor IMO.

Overall I guess the direction is well meaning but the equipment is much to meek for my taste.

I still would like a full TBS mode so i can place characters on the filed and do other things like sneak pincher attacks or have 2 characters sneak attack at once, with more polish over the battle system you ca enact a sense of stealth and other action adventure aspects.

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]

IF you ask me, Final Fantasy XII is exactly what needed to happen to the series. It needed to change. Every FF battle system plays out almsot exactly alike. Random encounters and you take turns attacking on a battle screen. FFXII changed tyat by doing away with the random battles and hte battle screen, though it didn ot do away with the active time battle system featured in damn near every FF from 4 onward. It was enough, though. It resulted in the player having more control over the characters than ever before, if they chose to.l You could have just as much or as little control over hte flow of battle as you wanted via the use or not use of gambits. That was part of the brillians of that system. It also was the perfect AI system. No one can honestly claim that the ally AI in Final Fantasy XII is bad. If it isn't geting the job done, reset your gambits. Boom. It is suddenly working again. That was brilliant.

It also moved away from the tired and played out 'ultimate pretty boy villian tries to destroy the world and you must stop him; plot line that Final Fantasy has been using forever in favor of a more political, deeper and darker storyline. This was definitely a breath of fresh air for the series, and the quality of hte writing, directing and voice acting improved drastically with it. It dod something else important, though. It brought back a form of the crystals, which is something that Final Fantasy has laregely forgotten about post 6. There were crystals EVERYWHERE in that game. Even the frickin save points were crystals. IT was great nostalgia, to say the least.

At any rate, Final Fantasy XII is the best 3D FF period and hte best FF since the SNES days. It delivered everything that is required of a tried and true FF. Fantasy worlds. Crystals. In depth characters and story. All that. Not many post VI FF games have delivered all of this, sadly. I, for one, was glad to see it hark back to the days of the sprite era while pushing the series forward for once

ZippyDSMLee

The story was not bad the battle system could use tweaking it was to graphically noseiy for me the system was a bit to automated I don't mind the realtime but it needed some TB/RTS interfaces speed throttling got put in the Int. release which is nice but I would have liked more control over indavendaul characters, the equipment and skill systems just ruin the games fun factor IMO.

Overall I guess the direction is well meaning but the equipment is much to meek for my taste.

I still would like a full TBS mode so i can place characters on the filed and do other things like sneak pincher attacks or have 2 characters sneak attack at once, with more polish over the battle system you ca enact a sense of stealth and other action adventure aspects.

You say you want TBS as if FFT is the only FF you like.

[QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"][QUOTE="fs_metal"]

IF you ask me, Final Fantasy XII is exactly what needed to happen to the series. It needed to change. Every FF battle system plays out almsot exactly alike. Random encounters and you take turns attacking on a battle screen. FFXII changed tyat by doing away with the random battles and hte battle screen, though it didn ot do away with the active time battle system featured in damn near every FF from 4 onward. It was enough, though. It resulted in the player having more control over the characters than ever before, if they chose to.l You could have just as much or as little control over hte flow of battle as you wanted via the use or not use of gambits. That was part of the brillians of that system. It also was the perfect AI system. No one can honestly claim that the ally AI in Final Fantasy XII is bad. If it isn't geting the job done, reset your gambits. Boom. It is suddenly working again. That was brilliant.

It also moved away from the tired and played out 'ultimate pretty boy villian tries to destroy the world and you must stop him; plot line that Final Fantasy has been using forever in favor of a more political, deeper and darker storyline. This was definitely a breath of fresh air for the series, and the quality of hte writing, directing and voice acting improved drastically with it. It dod something else important, though. It brought back a form of the crystals, which is something that Final Fantasy has laregely forgotten about post 6. There were crystals EVERYWHERE in that game. Even the frickin save points were crystals. IT was great nostalgia, to say the least.

At any rate, Final Fantasy XII is the best 3D FF period and hte best FF since the SNES days. It delivered everything that is required of a tried and true FF. Fantasy worlds. Crystals. In depth characters and story. All that. Not many post VI FF games have delivered all of this, sadly. I, for one, was glad to see it hark back to the days of the sprite era while pushing the series forward for once

fs_metal

The story was not bad the battle system could use tweaking it was to graphically noseiy for me the system was a bit to automated I don't mind the realtime but it needed some TB/RTS interfaces speed throttling got put in the Int. release which is nice but I would have liked more control over indavendaul characters, the equipment and skill systems just ruin the games fun factor IMO.

Overall I guess the direction is well meaning but the equipment is much to meek for my taste.

I still would like a full TBS mode so i can place characters on the filed and do other things like sneak pincher attacks or have 2 characters sneak attack at once, with more polish over the battle system you ca enact a sense of stealth and other action adventure aspects.

You say you want TBS as if FFT is the only FF you like.

yes...and no....they don't really give you a solid TB mode in FF12 its more pause and command, they focused their attention on automated real time and not so much on the rest of it, KOTOR and Dungeon Siege have better group controls.

Don't get me wrong the automated thing is great for mindless leveling but in more complicated fights you really don't have more control over you can disable gambits and use pause or TB but it feels like there is something missing by trying to go that control route.

It's not bad but I would like a more polished group system so I can place/guide and plan out attacks.

I believe for one of the newer FFs they are trying a action point system, game arts the makers of Grandia and Lunar used it in their TB RPGs although it was heavily raped in the Lunar PSX remakes, would be nice if placement and range of foe become a element of battle, this could easily translate to real time IE you get more attacks when you are close to a target and some spells/attacks could have radius damage bonuses.

FF12 did a good job on a simple RPG real time battle system and level design it kind a goes downhill from here with the equipment being only 2nd to worse than the skill system.

Although I guess if you could equip 4 accessories it would have added enough life to the equipment system one could over look it…

I stopped reading once you called ht FFXII battle system mindless. That alone is proof positive that you have no idea what you are talking about. The active time battle system used in FFIV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX and X-2 is still very much in place. They jsut eliminated random battles, thus giving you more control than ever beforefs_metal

And if you use a gambit like system...let people store up to 5 presets each character. ZippyDSMLee

I just thought this is a great idea. Maybe being able to name the gambit combo you made is also a good addition. I just hated it when I need to set and reset my gambits in order to suit the needs of each battle circumstances. It is a tedious job, more tedious than the much hated junction system.

Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutfs_metal

If you can not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

[QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]And if you use a gambit like system...let people store up to 5 presets each character. Fantasy_Gamer

I just thought this is a great idea. Maybe being able to name the gambit combo you made is also a good addition. I just hated it when I need to set and reset my gambits in order to suit the needs of each battle circumstances. It is a tedious job, more tedious than the much hated junction system.

I'd rather have the junction system >>

I mean really thats how bad FF12 can be you add up all the lil things and your head explodes, now for FF8 junction+draw= head implosion LOL
Hell I think FF1's magic system is better handled than FF8s >

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutZippyDSMLee

If you can not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

IF you ask me, Final Fantasy XII is exactly what needed to happen to the series. It needed to change. Every FF battle system plays out almsot exactly alike. Random encounters and you take turns attacking on a battle screen. FFXII changed tyat by doing away with the random battles and hte battle screen, though it didn ot do away with the active time battle system featured in damn near every FF from 4 onward. It was enough, though. It resulted in the player having more control over the characters than ever before, if they chose to.l You could have just as much or as little control over hte flow of battle as you wanted via the use or not use of gambits. That was part of the brillians of that system. It also was the perfect AI system. No one can honestly claim that the ally AI in Final Fantasy XII is bad. If it isn't geting the job done, reset your gambits. Boom. It is suddenly working again. That was brilliant.

It also moved away from the tired and played out 'ultimate pretty boy villian tries to destroy the world and you must stop him; plot line that Final Fantasy has been using forever in favor of a more political, deeper and darker storyline. This was definitely a breath of fresh air for the series, and the quality of hte writing, directing and voice acting improved drastically with it. It dod something else important, though. It brought back a form of the crystals, which is something that Final Fantasy has laregely forgotten about post 6. There were crystals EVERYWHERE in that game. Even the frickin save points were crystals. IT was great nostalgia, to say the least.

At any rate, Final Fantasy XII is the best 3D FF period and hte best FF since the SNES days. It delivered everything that is required of a tried and true FF. Fantasy worlds. Crystals. In depth characters and story. All that. Not many post VI FF games have delivered all of this, sadly. I, for one, was glad to see it hark back to the days of the sprite era while pushing the series forward for once

fs_metal

[QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]And if you use a gambit like system...let people store up to 5 presets each character. Fantasy_Gamer

I just thought this is a great idea. Maybe being able to name the gambit combo you made is also a good addition. I just hated it when I need to set and reset my gambits in order to suit the needs of each battle circumstances. It is a tedious job, more tedious than the much hated junction system.

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]

IF you ask me, Final Fantasy XII is exactly what needed to happen to the series. It needed to change. Every FF battle system plays out almsot exactly alike. Random encounters and you take turns attacking on a battle screen. FFXII changed tyat by doing away with the random battles and hte battle screen, though it didn ot do away with the active time battle system featured in damn near every FF from 4 onward. It was enough, though. It resulted in the player having more control over the characters than ever before, if they chose to.l You could have just as much or as little control over hte flow of battle as you wanted via the use or not use of gambits. That was part of the brillians of that system. It also was the perfect AI system. No one can honestly claim that the ally AI in Final Fantasy XII is bad. If it isn't geting the job done, reset your gambits. Boom. It is suddenly working again. That was brilliant.

It also moved away from the tired and played out 'ultimate pretty boy villian tries to destroy the world and you must stop him; plot line that Final Fantasy has been using forever in favor of a more political, deeper and darker storyline. This was definitely a breath of fresh air for the series, and the quality of hte writing, directing and voice acting improved drastically with it. It dod something else important, though. It brought back a form of the crystals, which is something that Final Fantasy has laregely forgotten about post 6. There were crystals EVERYWHERE in that game. Even the frickin save points were crystals. IT was great nostalgia, to say the least.

At any rate, Final Fantasy XII is the best 3D FF period and hte best FF since the SNES days. It delivered everything that is required of a tried and true FF. Fantasy worlds. Crystals. In depth characters and story. All that. Not many post VI FF games have delivered all of this, sadly. I, for one, was glad to see it hark back to the days of the sprite era while pushing the series forward for once

book55

Not dissgreeing with the direction just with the implamentation..and I really hatethe lackluster skil/equipment systems....

[QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutfs_metal

not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

[QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutfs_metal

If you can not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

Try games like dungeon siege 1-2 the way you can control a group in real time pause or slow RT and give commands out its a much more efficient,that and I can break the group up and put characters where I want, I guess once you play something with a superior design the flaws in something that caught up to it or cloned it just makes it aggravating more than it should.


I guess dungeon siege is a RT RPG more than a RTS, I don't like the definition of combat RPGs, CRPGs should be about full control overplayer movement in a action setting not a click fest of visual noise.
Don't like dungeon siege 2 much I wish they had a mode where you could make it like DS1 you kill a monster it dose not come back, it makes the game much more interesting :X

For me FF12 failed on giving me the control I want in a manner thats not cumbersome (resetting gambits, battle control nuances) add on the skill system that makes every FF titled game look better even FFX2 and a minmilized equipment system in these areas is more of the same, however level design is great and the theme of the story and setting is more FF than 8,X and X2, I still like FF9 the most out of 3D FFs the equipment and character abilities and skill system really made the game shine.

Ah sorry for the incoherence it takes my stupid ass mind a day or 2 to process a freaking train of thought

Speaking of FFs hows the DS FFs?
How bad is the FF4 remake?

I dont mind the realtimeaspect butwould love for some slow/fast toggles I don't like pauseing all the damn time to give out commands.

[QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutZippyDSMLee

not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

[QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutfs_metal

If you can not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

Try games like dungeon siege 1-2 the way you can control a group in real time pause or slow RT and give commands out its a much more efficient,that and I can break the group up and put characters where I want, I guess once you play something with a superior design the flaws in something that caught up to it or cloned it just makes it aggravating more than it should.


I guess dungeon siege is a RT RPG more than a RTS, I don't like the definition of combat RPGs, CRPGs should be about full control overplayer movement in a action setting not a click fest of visual noise.
Don't like dungeon siege 2 much I wish they had a mode where you could make it like DS1 you kill a monster it dose not come back, it makes the game much more interesting :X

For me FF12 failed on giving me the control I want in a manner thats not cumbersome (resetting gambits, battle control nuances) add on the skill system that makes every FF titled game look better even FFX2 and a minmilized equipment system in these areas is more of the same, however level design is great and the theme of the story and setting is more FF than 8,X and X2, I still like FF9 the most out of 3D FFs the equipment and character abilities and skill system really made the game shine.

Ah sorry for the incoherence it takes my stupid ass mind a day or 2 to process a freaking train of thought

Speaking of FFs hows the DS FFs?
How bad is the FF4 remake?

I dont mind the realtimeaspect butwould love for some slow/fast toggles I don't like pauseing all the damn time to give out commands.

FFXII is only as aggervating as you make it because you have just as much or as little control as you want. If you are having problems with it's battle system, it's your fault. Set up your gambits different.

[QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"][QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutfs_metal

not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

[QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutfs_metal

If you can not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

Try games like dungeon siege 1-2 the way you can control a group in real time pause or slow RT and give commands out its a much more efficient,that and I can break the group up and put characters where I want, I guess once you play something with a superior design the flaws in something that caught up to it or cloned it just makes it aggravating more than it should.


I guess dungeon siege is a RT RPG more than a RTS, I don't like the definition of combat RPGs, CRPGs should be about full control overplayer movement in a action setting not a click fest of visual noise.
Don't like dungeon siege 2 much I wish they had a mode where you could make it like DS1 you kill a monster it dose not come back, it makes the game much more interesting :X

For me FF12 failed on giving me the control I want in a manner thats not cumbersome (resetting gambits, battle control nuances) add on the skill system that makes every FF titled game look better even FFX2 and a minmilized equipment system in these areas is more of the same, however level design is great and the theme of the story and setting is more FF than 8,X and X2, I still like FF9 the most out of 3D FFs the equipment and character abilities and skill system really made the game shine.

Ah sorry for the incoherence it takes my stupid ass mind a day or 2 to process a freaking train of thought

Speaking of FFs hows the DS FFs?
How bad is the FF4 remake?

I dont mind the realtimeaspect butwould love for some slow/fast toggles I don't like pauseing all the damn time to give out commands.

FFXII is only as aggervating as you make it because you have just as much or as little control as you want. If you are having problems with it's battle system, it's your fault. Set up your gambits different.

I know I have trouble with comprehension but come on already, let try this again if you fail to understand it I have played RT-X games with a better control scheme, I dislike the cam sticking to one character I dislike not being able to plan out sneak attacks since the ATB bar kicks in pre attack, I dislike not being able to move the characters where I want individually, the nuances of the control scheme with the cumbersome gambit system make it lesser than other RT-X games I have played.

I am surprised they did not implement a preset gimmick, buy the preset slots start it at 1500 for the first one and 5K for the rest or in incrementsof5K up to 10 or 15 presets slots.

Sell them at gambit and skill shops.

[QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"][QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutZippyDSMLee

not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

[QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutfs_metal

If you can not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

Try games like dungeon siege 1-2 the way you can control a group in real time pause or slow RT and give commands out its a much more efficient,that and I can break the group up and put characters where I want, I guess once you play something with a superior design the flaws in something that caught up to it or cloned it just makes it aggravating more than it should.


I guess dungeon siege is a RT RPG more than a RTS, I don't like the definition of combat RPGs, CRPGs should be about full control overplayer movement in a action setting not a click fest of visual noise.
Don't like dungeon siege 2 much I wish they had a mode where you could make it like DS1 you kill a monster it dose not come back, it makes the game much more interesting :X

For me FF12 failed on giving me the control I want in a manner thats not cumbersome (resetting gambits, battle control nuances) add on the skill system that makes every FF titled game look better even FFX2 and a minmilized equipment system in these areas is more of the same, however level design is great and the theme of the story and setting is more FF than 8,X and X2, I still like FF9 the most out of 3D FFs the equipment and character abilities and skill system really made the game shine.

Ah sorry for the incoherence it takes my stupid ass mind a day or 2 to process a freaking train of thought

Speaking of FFs hows the DS FFs?
How bad is the FF4 remake?

I dont mind the realtimeaspect butwould love for some slow/fast toggles I don't like pauseing all the damn time to give out commands.

FFXII is only as aggervating as you make it because you have just as much or as little control as you want. If you are having problems with it's battle system, it's your fault. Set up your gambits different.

I know I have trouble with comprehension but come on already, let try this again if you fail to understand it I have played RT-X games with a better control scheme, I dislike the cam sticking to one character I dislike not being able to plan out sneak attacks since the ATB bar kicks in pre attack, I dislike not being able to move the characters where I want individually, the nuances of the control scheme with the cumbersome gambit system make it lesser than other RT-X games I have played.

I am surprised they did not implement a preset gimmick, buy the preset slots start it at 1500 for the first one and 5K for the rest or in incrementsof5K up to 10 or 15 presets slots.

Sell them at gambit and skill shops.

You can switch who the character is focused on. Problem solved.

PReset your gambits or stop the game all together and pre select your attacks. Problem solved.

Slect the character and move him or her with the thumb stick. Problem solved.

It appears to me that you just don't know how to properly woprk the battle system., which is causing all your problems.

[QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"][QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"][QUOTE="fs_metal"][QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutfs_metal

not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

[QUOTE="ZippyDSMLee"]

[QUOTE="fs_metal"]Again, if you think that the system in FFXII is mindless or sloppy, you have no idea what you are talking aboutfs_metal

If you can not comprehend the fact that it is sloppy for GROUP and precise control then you have never played any RTS.

I'll even scale it for you
scale 1-10
1 :sloppy=Bad action/rpg hybrid
10: precise control=RTS

FF12 falls to 5 maybe 6, sloppy..ok I am hyperlobing alil on sloppyness :P
Butt is not great they could have incorporated more RTS gameplay mechanics.

Try games like dungeon siege 1-2 the way you can control a group in real time pause or slow RT and give commands out its a much more efficient,that and I can break the group up and put characters where I want, I guess once you play something with a superior design the flaws in something that caught up to it or cloned it just makes it aggravating more than it should.


I guess dungeon siege is a RT RPG more than a RTS, I don't like the definition of combat RPGs, CRPGs should be about full control overplayer movement in a action setting not a click fest of visual noise.
Don't like dungeon siege 2 much I wish they had a mode where you could make it like DS1 you kill a monster it dose not come back, it makes the game much more interesting :X

For me FF12 failed on giving me the control I want in a manner thats not cumbersome (resetting gambits, battle control nuances) add on the skill system that makes every FF titled game look better even FFX2 and a minmilized equipment system in these areas is more of the same, however level design is great and the theme of the story and setting is more FF than 8,X and X2, I still like FF9 the most out of 3D FFs the equipment and character abilities and skill system really made the game shine.

Ah sorry for the incoherence it takes my stupid ass mind a day or 2 to process a freaking train of thought

Speaking of FFs hows the DS FFs?
How bad is the FF4 remake?

I dont mind the realtimeaspect butwould love for some slow/fast toggles I don't like pauseing all the damn time to give out commands.

FFXII is only as aggervating as you make it because you have just as much or as little control as you want. If you are having problems with it's battle system, it's your fault. Set up your gambits different.

I know I have trouble with comprehension but come on already, let try this again if you fail to understand it I have played RT-X games with a better control scheme, I dislike the cam sticking to one character I dislike not being able to plan out sneak attacks since the ATB bar kicks in pre attack, I dislike not being able to move the characters where I want individually, the nuances of the control scheme with the cumbersome gambit system make it lesser than other RT-X games I have played.

I am surprised they did not implement a preset gimmick, buy the preset slots start it at 1500 for the first one and 5K for the rest or in incrementsof5K up to 10 or 15 presets slots.

Sell them at gambit and skill shops.

You can switch who the character is focused on. Problem solved.

PReset your gambits or stop the game all together and pre select your attacks. Problem solved.

Slect the character and move him or her with the thumb stick. Problem solved.

It appears to me that you just don't know how to properly woprk the battle system., which is causing all your problems.

It's still missing something perhaps it's not the control that's lacking but the skill and equipment systems dragging the game down so much it feels like the control is off.

i dont find the system as good as ffx-2s thoughjohngebreadman

If FFX-2 had a equipment systemit would have been better 8,X and 12 *drool*…at least in trems of Cl-a-ss/Equipment.

When it comes to Cl-a-ss/skill and equipment FF4 is a my favFF5 is a mishmash with lame story and characters I can do without it FF6 polishes well the cl-a-ssic FF system however it gets rid of free magic casting weapons this saddens meas FF1 and FF4 fckign rocked with the addition of "caster equipment".

Still FF6 was epic without it.

FF7 is a mixed bag mixes a bit too many things but over all dose well to balance thigns.

FF8 is another mishmash.

FF9 is a solid FF system with a simi solid cast and setting.

FFX yet another mishmash tossing out the overworld and using a very warped setting, my only complaint is the overworld for one and every other item shop should have done weapon customization, I would kill for a code breaker code to let me start the game with customization and or inf items in battle only.

FFX2(or 2by4 as in the plank…) is too much a cash in crap fest it dose do some things nicely but it's much much too shallow and casual for me.

Now we have FF12 first off the skill system is broken and sloppy, the equipment system overly meek, and a cumbersome AI toggle equip thing these issues annoy me to no end.

The control of the RT system is not bad..if it was a mindless action game, the TB mode doesn't offer anything more than better cueing, the combination with the gambit system allows for some control but at the price of redoing it every 5-30 minutes.

To improve it I would have

1.Make the group more independent of each other for better placement and attacks, this could be done by mode switching( similar to the old FF part line up).

2.Gambit preset system,save u to 5-10 gambits a charatcer

3.Put in skill or item that allows "first attack " before the bar kicks in.

4.Polish the cueing system so commands can be programmed out to about 5 per character.

5.Time scale not only be able to adjust ATB on the fly but "FPS" as well, I want to make normal minor grinding fast and a painless(FF12Int has something like this).

For the skill system I have set it up as either free for all mindless skill grinding or by the cl-a-ss.

(I also want Edger's tech system fromFF6 for balmier so bad :X)

I also want a dual wield cl-a-ss…WTF is up with FF dropping dual wield, it's like the only other FF they played is F11 *shudders*

The equipment system is better than X and X2 and 8 all it really needs is to let you equip about 4 accessories to be a nice and fun FF equipment system.

BTW is there a way to turn off HTML in posts?

it wants to block/censore cl ass and st ayle all the damn time....

This is rediculous... and for the record plz stop mass quoting we know what the previous posts state.

You are disecting ff12 FAR to much.... 12s system was perfectly fine, many argue that the gambits played too much of an uncontroled part, wich is hardly the case when the harder intese fights start occuring..

Now... on teh other hand, i personaly think that ff12s story was far from engaging and follows the same formula that most ff games base there story around, along with alot of obsolete events, characters and information that the game could have done without for example al-cid, cid, the judges, recks, fran and her "mysterious" ability, Balthier being a "judge" in the past, and rozzalia.

When the game got to its end, all that didnt matter, ashe was as cliche as most heroines, and vayne was just like the rest, seeking a power beyond the normal world to rule everything, there was very little politics in the game, especially compared to powerfukl political story found in the original ff tactics.

And cant disagree more with the fact that ff9 is the greatest 3d final fantasy, lol how? with its simplistic character design that renders 75% of the playable cast of characters obsolete in the end? its story, that isnt much different or inovative as others? dont get me wrong, i enjoyed 9 a great deal, the characters were unique and entertaing, and it had a great ost, and of course it was graphicaly appealing (but that doesnt count). 7, 8, 10 and 12 offer complete character customization and flexabilty whereas 9 restricts u to particular characters if u want a certain ability, for the exception of the equipable skills learned from accesories.... and the trance system alone was lackluster as well.

10 was on par with 8? lol how so? are u against anything that offers flexability? I cant think of any similarities that those games share.. and if ur argument is based on lack of equipment or wichever, then that is an incredibly weak claim indeed.

So in your opinion, every character has to have there own indevidual set of abilites, with 6 different slots for equiopment and no character customization option? final fantasy 1-4 were exceptions simply because of the times. 5-6 were showing improvement to character options wich then evolved into 7 and 8, ff9 simply brought it back to its roots, and for some thats good, but it was far too easy compared to final fantasy 4-6 and left the player with little options.

and stop bashing 8 simply because u dont like it, even if the drawing system was tedious.

Speaking of FFs hows the DS FFs?
How bad is the FF4 remake?

ZippyDSMLee

It's not bad.... It's not possible to make FFIV bad. It was basicly the same game with way better graphics (and awesome cutsceens), voiceovers (which wern't too good), and some new additions (that wern't really needed but were cool to have and offered some customization to your characters.)