Saw this interesting thread over at Bethesda forums regarding the Fallout 4 trailer and the protagonist who is another 'dark haired white dude'. It made me reflect on the mixed feedback when Rockstar announced GTA SA would have a black protagonist. And yet, despite the racist comments, GTA SA went on to become a lot of people's favorite GTA game to this day.
What are your thoughts on the 'dark haired white dude' being the go to default protagonist for most games? Results of market research? Should people 'get over it'? Or do you think devs should mix it up a little Rockstar?
My protagonist is always a young, lesbian, rock chick who ditches the crappy blue clothes for the first leather or risque piece of armor she comes across. Who also hates whiny weak people and loves to join the fun loving raiders.
I never look anything like default guy. So yeah they should mix it up a little.
My protagonist is always a young, lesbian, rock chick who ditches the crappy blue clothes for the first leather or risque piece of armor she comes across. Who also hates whiny weak people and loves to join the fun loving raiders.
I never look anything like default guy. So yeah they should mix it up a little.
Hopefully, they''ll include a raiders faction in Fallout 4. Could be cool to see more 'bad guy' factions like the Legion.
@HipHopBeats: I love being a total prick in those games. I hope there will be no immortal NPC's like they did in New Vegas. I think other then children who just run off, yes man was the only none killable character.
@HipHopBeats: you do know you can choose your gender in Fallout?
Also
Let me break this down, GTA IV had a slavic protagonist, in Dragon Age you can play as a man or a woman, same goes for Mass Effect. Also why is Starkiller in there twice?
While the incredibly uncreative characters in games is a problem, I don't think it matters in a game like Fallout. Your character is a blank slate for you to add your own personality onto, and as others have said you can customize what they look like. What would be the point in them creating an interesting character if the players are just going to change it?
@HipHopBeats: you do know you can choose your gender in Fallout?
Also
Let me break this down, GTA IV had a slavic protagonist, in Dragon Age you can play as a man or a woman, same goes for Mass Effect. Also why is Starkiller in there twice?
Something wrong about this pictures because it has 3 Starkiller's, turok, and a I believe a ufc/mma fighter. Not to mention Shepard and Hawke. But I never understand the reason for this picture.
@HipHopBeats: you do know you can choose your gender in Fallout?
Also
Let me break this down, GTA IV had a slavic protagonist, in Dragon Age you can play as a man or a woman, same goes for Mass Effect. Also why is Starkiller in there twice?
Something wrong about this pictures because it has 3 Starkiller's, turok, and a I believe a ufc/mma fighter. Not to mention Shepard and Hawke. But I never understand the reason for this picture.
It's just their marketing model like the default Dohvakiin model they used for Skyrim. You make your own character in game like the previous fall outs.
In the end we'll all be playing as the worst abomination we can make.
@HipHopBeats: you do know you can choose your gender in Fallout?
Also
Let me break this down, GTA IV had a slavic protagonist, in Dragon Age you can play as a man or a woman, same goes for Mass Effect. Also why is Starkiller in there twice?
Something wrong about this pictures because it has 3 Starkiller's, turok, and a I believe a ufc/mma fighter. Not to mention Shepard and Hawke. But I never understand the reason for this picture.
It also has Geralt who looks nothing like the rest of him. I mean, he sticks out like a sore thumb lol. It's like one of those easy "where's waldo" things.
Kinda Irrelevant to complain about that regarding Fallout 4 considering the game will likely let you customize the race, skin color and hair color/type of your character.
People 'Getting over it' would seem to be the best answer. It's Fallout, after all, where you generally end up being able to make your character whatever sort of male/female/freak'o'nature that you wish to. The generic stand-in lead on the box cover/videos is of no real concern.
@Flubbbs: This. So god damn much this. It's never been easier to get into game development than it is now, and all the energy people spend complaining proves they clearly have the energy to take it up.
Kinda Irrelevant to complain about that regarding Fallout 4 considering the game will likely let you customize the race, skin color and hair color/type of your character.
This, but in general the "standard white guy template" is pretty common for most games and it wouldn't hurt for them to show more diversity. I like what Rust does, which is randomly role your character's appearance and race and it doesn't let you change it.
@Flubbbs: This. So god damn much this. It's never been easier to get into game development than it is now, and all the energy people spend complaining proves they clearly have the energy to take it up.
But this violates the first principle of internet activism: bitch loudly until someone else fixes the problem.
@Flubbbs: This. So god damn much this. It's never been easier to get into game development than it is now, and all the energy people spend complaining proves they clearly have the energy to take it up.
But this violates the first principle of internet activism: bitch loudly until someone else fixes the problem.
All this time and they haven't added a like button on the forums...
Totally. Finally someone said it. They should have made 30 different trailers. One with a male and female white, black, hispanic, asian and indian (1 billion people) each of which with three different hair colors. But we want to include everyone right? Lets double that to 60 trailers cause we want to cover dwarfs as to not discriminate. What about people that are like, "Why isn't my chihuahua in the trailer, I don't have a German Shepherd." Now we have (60 x n) where n is the number of distinguishable dog species. 'I'm so glad we made (60 x n) trailers so that everyone is happy'... said the Fallout 4 employee who was just laid off as result of an overblown marketing budget.
Kinda Irrelevant to complain about that regarding Fallout 4 considering the game will likely let you customize the race, skin color and hair color/type of your character.
This, but in general the "standard white guy template" is pretty common for most games and it wouldn't hurt for them to show more diversity. I like what Rust does, which is randomly role your character's appearance and race and it doesn't let you change it.
-Byshop
True, They could've made the character in the end of the trailer a dark skinned woman and it'd likely not remove any of the excitement for those looking forward to the game.
@Coco_pierrot : Well unless you play the game in third person view, which several does.
@Flubbbs: This. So god damn much this. It's never been easier to get into game development than it is now, and all the energy people spend complaining proves they clearly have the energy to take it up.
But this violates the first principle of internet activism: bitch loudly until someone else fixes the problem.
All this time and they haven't added a like button on the forums...
better like this. That only promotes prejudice and bias.
First off, Fallout games allow players to customize both gender and race.
Second, Bethesda and many other gaming companies are headquartered in the US, which is still a white majority country, and many game developers are white males, so of course they are going to base their main characters off themselves.
Third, if you don't like it, you can either write them a letter and pointlessly bitch about it or you can invest in your own gaming company and make your game characters the way you want.
Fourth, political correctness in general needs to die, but political correctness in gaming REALLY needs to die. Keep this political bullshit out. Please.
Maybe I don't want to be a default black guy. Sue me. Young black men are disproportionately perpetrators of crimes, so naturally most people don't want to be stuck with that kind of avatar.
I understand your logic.
Since many young black men perpetrate crime, disproportionately, all young black men are likely to perpetrate crime.
Let's keep the race wars out of Games Discussion, thanks.
On-Topic: I like the customization options in Fallout, but the fact the default character is a Caucasian male is not a moot point. Sometimes, it is good to speak with your wallet if you are unwilling or unable to invest hundreds of hours to learn game development. I am computer science student, so this would be familiar work for me in some ways, but not everyone wants to make games as a career, @Ish_basic and @DarkCatalyst. For those of us that do, best of luck.
I wonder if you would say that people should make their own vehicles if they do not like the standards set by current vehicle manufacturers. In addition, if they do not then they are doing something wrong.
On-Topic: I like the customization options in Fallout, but the fact the default character is a Caucasian male is not a moot point. Sometimes, it is good to speak with your wallet if you are unwilling or unable to invest hundreds of hours to learn game development. I am computer science student, so this would be familiar work for me in some ways, but not everyone wants to make games as a career, @Ish_basic and @DarkCatalyst. For those of us that do, best of luck.
I wonder if you would say that people should make their own vehicles if they do not like the standards set by current vehicle manufacturers. In addition, if they do not then they are doing something wrong.
I think voting with your wallet is great! It's a good practice in and of itself, and something we all participate in on some level whether we realize it or not. What I can't get behind is this notion that the game industry somehow owes society anything more than the unaltered creative output of its developers. If anything, it's society that owes the game industry for constantly providing it with an endless stream of worlds that are fundamentally superior to the one we live in.
Game development is no longer the immense time and money investment it once was. In fact, it can now be done on the side without actually making it one's career, if one is actually interested in being part of the solution to any perceived problems with gaming as it is (and I would say that yes, it can be taken up in approximately the amount of time some spend complaining about aspects of gaming). In other words, the barrier of entry for game development has lowered considerably and can't even be remotely compared to the barrier of entry for automotive R&D/manufacturing. It may have been similar in the past. Certainly not now.
Hell, I'm even making games now, what does that say about how easy it's gotten? LOL
I think voting with your wallet is great! It's a good practice in and of itself, and something we all participate in on some level whether we realize it or not. What I can't get behind is this notion that the game industry somehow owes society anything more than the unaltered creative output of its developers. If anything, it's society that owes the game industry for constantly providing it with an endless stream of worlds that are fundamentally superior to the one we live in.
Game development is no longer the immense time and money investment it once was. In fact, it can now be done on the side without actually making it one's career, if one is actually interested in being part of the solution to any perceived problems with gaming as it is (and I would say that yes, it can be taken up in approximately the amount of time some spend complaining about aspects of gaming). In other words, the barrier of entry for game development has lowered considerably and can't even be remotely compared to the barrier of entry for automotive R&D/manufacturing. It may have been similar in the past. Certainly not now.
Hell, I'm even making games now, what does that say about how easy it's gotten? LOL
That is intriguing. I would like to make a game, but I \would like to also accomplish other things. Perhaps I shall be able to perform this task, successfully.
I think voting with your wallet is great! It's a good practice in and of itself, and something we all participate in on some level whether we realize it or not. What I can't get behind is this notion that the game industry somehow owes society anything more than the unaltered creative output of its developers. If anything, it's society that owes the game industry for constantly providing it with an endless stream of worlds that are fundamentally superior to the one we live in.
Game development is no longer the immense time and money investment it once was. In fact, it can now be done on the side without actually making it one's career, if one is actually interested in being part of the solution to any perceived problems with gaming as it is (and I would say that yes, it can be taken up in approximately the amount of time some spend complaining about aspects of gaming). In other words, the barrier of entry for game development has lowered considerably and can't even be remotely compared to the barrier of entry for automotive R&D/manufacturing. It may have been similar in the past. Certainly not now.
Hell, I'm even making games now, what does that say about how easy it's gotten? LOL
That is intriguing. I would like to make a game, but I \would like to also accomplish other things. Perhaps I shall be able to perform this task, successfully.
Go for it. :) I work a full-time job in addition to my media/podcasting stuff and still find the time to work on a project here and there.
Doesn't matter. It's a Bethesda game. You'll play in first person because Bethesda never has and never will make a well done and properly implemented third person perspective. It'll be a poorly animated weird looking character who is just haphazardly pasted onto the screen, as always.
I think we are living in a beta generation where people complain about every little thing, it's like they sit down and search the games to see what they can complain about.
The trailer is advertising the game. They had to choose SOME gender and ethnicity for the avatar, but they aren't advertising THAT. They are advertising the game. Now, I can see some debate over why they chose THAT specific demographic as their example character in the trailer, but as everyone pointed out, you can be anything you want in the game, so nobody is being excluded in the title itself.
I don't have the stats memorized, and I'm sure someone is waiting to pounce on speculations like this: but I suspect the most populous demographic for Fallout titles is white males. So that's probably the cold, hard, and straightforward reason why they chose that avatar for the trailer. Nothing nefarious or anti-___, just cold hard advertising reasoning.
Not defending anything or making any personal statements about who should have been in the trailer, here. Just observing.
@Yams1980: there's also The Walking Dead, GTA 5 (well, there are 3 protagonists, but Franklin is black), and Prototype 2, to name a few games with Black protagonists.
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