Are sex or sexuality ever necessary for video games?

In comments with user drgrady in the GDC '08: Game devs 'terrified' of sex story the idea was raised that, "(drgrady has) yet to see a single game, movie, or tv show that had a sex scene necessary for the story unless the story was so worthless that it had nothing else to stand on." I disagree, citing a number of films such as Kids as examples. There is a lot of media with gratuitous sexuality, but I believe there are cases when it is necessary to move the plot forward or to make a necessary and relevant impact on the audience. It is only a matter of time, I believe, before a video game is released that makes a poignant statement that could not be made without a scene involving sexuality.

I am not much for debate, but wanted to hear the thoughts of the community at large on the topic. Please keep the thread clean, and discussion on topic. If the discussion leaves the core topic or becomes inappropriate, I will report you for moderation.

Cheers,

Bozanimal

Unless games want to sit at the kids table while all the other art forms out there deal with it in a mature matter, I think we have to figure out a way to tackle sexuality in games.

Hint: DOA isn't the answer. :P

What kind of a stupid question is that? If you have a good story to tell, and this story includes sexuality, then you should tell it as you intended to. What's the big deal.

phhsh, americans and sexuality. No one will ever understand.

What kind of a stupid question is that? If you have a good story to tell, and this story includes sexuality, then you should tell it as you intended to. What's the big deal.

phhsh, americans and sexuality. No one will ever understand.

Lothenon

is it necessary to have guts flying in many M rated games? Is it necessary for Mario to eat mushrooms to get bigger?

It just is because it is.

I think the taboo against sex in all media is a bit absurd. Sometimes, they best way to convey the emotion the developer wants to show might be to show 2 consenting, loving indivisuals expressing their love for each other. That's not to say that there should be sex scenes in games for no reason. But if it fits, i don't see why it can't be done.

As for the question "Is it ever necessary?" it's a tough question to answer. Some stories might be conveyed better through a sex scene, but most games will have them just for the sake of being edgy.

sex seems to be big topic in gaming industry, mostly because it isn't allowed in the industry.

as far as games are concerned, mostly we don't need sex. Xenogears, Xenosaga, and some other games did have implied sex scene that didn't show anything and due to those scenes the drama within the game and the story came to the players more powerfully, but those scenes showed nothing. You don't need to show sex itself to get the message across and show the important romance between characters.

would sex itself have made those scene better? Personally I don't think so. Even in movies it is difficult to see sex scenes being very romantic. Usually the moments they have after sex can tell more stories to the players as well as emotions.

I think only place sex and games is needed together is porn industry..... and some games like Leisure Suit Larry, and Manhunt 3 which probably will be about raping women because killing men brutally is losing the sick factor now.

no not even sex in movies unless its trying to be a porno which I guess is okay...

but really why put it in? its ok if somone makes a sex remarke and stuff but like stuff like DOA is really not needed

Two things come to mind: God of War and Mass Effect.

God of War's sex minigame was completely unnecessary - maybe not out of character for the game as a whole, and mildly amusing, but it didn't really offer anything other than confirmation of game developer's obsession with breasts and such.

Mass Effect handled its sex scenes with grace and used them as the climax of your relationship with a certain character, which up to that point was all handled with dialog, learning about them and gradually earning their trust. Maybe it was somewhat artificial in its execution but few games have managed that with such grace, especially the sex scene, which by that point in the game was totally earned. It's why seeing the story on Fox news and the article outing the game as an online rape simulator were doubly insulting, since Mass Effect was one of the few games that actually tackled its story in a mature manner and didn't giggle and point at the female character's jugs like most games do. It's no wonder some people don't take the medium seriously.

sex seems to be big topic in gaming industry, mostly because it isn't allowed in the industry.TriangleHard

Just a clarification that sex is allowed, but earns an Adults Only rating. there may be laws in some states banning outright sex in video games, but there is no national or worldwide censorship of the subject matter that I am aware of.

Boz

[QUOTE="TriangleHard"]sex seems to be big topic in gaming industry, mostly because it isn't allowed in the industry.Bozanimal

Just a clarification that sex is allowed, but earns an Adults Only rating. there may be laws in some states banning outright sex in video games, but there is no national or worldwide censorship of the subject matter that I am aware of.

Boz

I meant relatively.

console companies discourage the developers from making sexual contents and same with the general public.

I didn't mean it's illegal to do so.

It's a tough issue to approach. It's not necessary in a strict sense. I mean, games have been entertaining for a long time now, without the need of sexual content. Trying to shoehorn sexual content in a game without other purpose than shock value is meaningless, in my opinion, but trying to avoid sexual content because games don't need it would be naive, to say the least.

The thing is that videogames are constantly evolving, and at a faster pace than say movies or books. New technology has allowed to improve the way stories are told in videogames by a quantum leap in a really short period of time (not only in the visual field, but also because of game length, better writing, voice acting, you name it), and the possibility to reach a mature audience, makes the development of games with mature themes a viable and desirable choice.

Sexuality is a part of our lives. It's a part (an important one) of human relationships, as other posters have accurately stated it. Why should videogames (from all entertaining media) avoid it?

No.

Am I receptive to it to a certain level? Yes. Do you ever need to take this approach? No.

Does my favorite games feature that? Nope or not really.

It's a tough issue to approach. It's not necessary in a strict sense. I mean, games have been entertaining for a long time now, without the need of sexual content. Trying to shoehorn sexual content in a game without other purpose than shock value is meaningless, in my opinion, but trying to avoid sexual content because games don't need it would be naive, to say the least.

The thing is that videogames are constantly evolving, and at a faster pace than say movies or books. New technology has allowed to improve the way stories are told in videogames by a quantum leap in a really short period of time (not only in the visual field, but also because of game length, better writing, voice acting, you name it), and the possibility to reach a mature audience, makes the development of games with mature themes a viable and desirable choice.

Sexuality is a part of our lives. It's a part (an important one) of human relationships, as other posters have accurately stated it. Why should videogames (from all entertaining media) avoid it?

SteelAttack

Some very good points. I would add that no form of entertainment is truly necessary, as you point out. I think that maybe the question would have been better phrased as, "Are there games, movies, or other media whose experience would have been diminished without its scene(s) of sex or sexuality?"

I think the original question is directed more at the beliefs of the individual, spiritual and ethical, rather than at the art medium itself.

Cheers,

Boz

On the other hand there are games like The Witcher that include gratuitous sex simply because they can, and it cheapens the gameplay experience IMO.PBSnipes

How so? Every single one of those "gratuitous" sex scenes (even calling them sex scenes is a stretch) is completely optional. Besides, it fits the context of the gameworld - the books are like that so the game is like that. *shrugs*

"Are there games, movies, or other media whose experience would have been diminished without its scene(s) of sex or sexuality?"Bozanimal

I have a better and more relevant question - why does sex in games/films/whatever needs to be constantly justified?

[QUOTE="Bozanimal"]"Are there games, movies, or other media whose experience would have been diminished without its scene(s) of sex or sexuality?"UpInFlames

I have a better and more relevant question - why does sex in games/films/whatever needs to be constantly justified?

It's not just sex. Do you remember Jeff's last review? He said there was too much cussing in the game and most of it was "out of place" people usually tend to include the shock factor for sales. The question is would taking out sex scenes or whatever offensive subject from a game make affect it badly?

It's not just sex. Do you remember Jeff's last review? He said there was too much cussing in the game and most of it was "out of place" people usually tend to include the shock factor for sales. The question is would taking out sex scenes or whatever offensive subject from a game make affect it badly?gamingqueen

But only sex is being turned into an issue. Lots of developers don't get things right in a lot of games - whether it's violence, cursing, difficulty, learning curve, save systems, level design, AI....so what's the big deal with sex? Some developers can make it right and therefore a single game that does it right is worth enduring a hundred other games being allowed to do it wrong, in my opinion.

If some developers feel that it's necessary to move the story along, then there's nothing wrong with it.

If you were at work, would you be interetsed to hear the details of a story about someone who had sex with his wife? gamingqueen

[QUOTE="Bozanimal"]"Are there games, movies, or other media whose experience would have been diminished without its scene(s) of sex or sexuality?"UpInFlames

I have a better and more relevant question - why does sex in games/films/whatever needs to be constantly justified?

The primary market for video games is the young and young adults (though the population of adult gamers is rapidly growing), so I believe there is some merit in making sure that adult and mature scenes are warranted before their inclusion unless the game itself is specifically designed for adults. In a sense, I do believe they need to be justified.

It's not just sex. Do you remember Jeff's last review? He said there was too much cussing in the game and most of it was "out of place" people usually tend to include the shock factor for sales. The question is would taking out sex scenes or whatever offensive subject from a game make affect it badly? gamingqueen

It's funny, I felt the same way about the film "Knocked Up," one of the funniest, best-written movies I've seen in a long time. Every time there was swearing in the film, though, it felt awkward and out-of-place to me. Still, the directors must have thought it more accurately represented the characters or reality, so it was included. I don't think the removal of the vulgarity would have detracted from sales of the film in any way or diminished its plot. Then again, the odds of a bunch of stoners not swearing is probably pretty low!

But only sex is being turned into an issue. Lots of developers don't get things right in a lot of games - whether it's violence, cursing, difficulty, learning curve, save systems, level design, AI....so what's the big deal with sex? Some developers can make it right and therefore a single game that does it right is worth enduring a hundred other games being allowed to do it wrong, in my opinion.UpInFlames

I guess the next line of questioning then would be how sexual situations could be, "done right." This is the part I'm still chewing on, not only when it might add value, but how it might then be presented or add to the game's mechanics, because even though I believe it is okay to do so I do not know when or how sexuality might be used in a game in a way that makes sense.

Maybe a subterfuge or spy game with a female protagonist? Charisma attack? It certainly worked for James Bond (a lot) and Michael Douglas!

Boz

I don't mean to be rude guys but I think developers think why not kill two birds with one stone and make a game which serves two pleasures if you get what I mean. If sex scenes in games meant to erect gamers then I see it as a cheap way to sell a videogame and there's no need for it. Sadly, most sex scenes in games are used for that purpose. gamingqueen

In some cases sure... and in those cases it is degrading to all parties involved. I still feel like Mass Effect was above this. The optional sex scenes in it weren't meant to turn you on. They were a great example of character development.

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]I don't mean to be rude guys but I think developers think why not kill two birds with one stone and make a game which serves two pleasures if you get what I mean. If sex scenes in games meant to erect gamers then I see it as a cheap way to sell a videogame and there's no need for it. Sadly, most sex scenes in games are used for that purpose. rragnaar

In some cases sure... and in those cases it is degrading to all parties involved. I still feel like Mass Effect was above this. The optional sex scenes in it weren't meant to turn you on. They were a great example of character development.

You said it.. it was optional. I pesonally don't wanna play a game with people making out as to show that they're deeply in love with eachother... having sex isn't the only way nor the best way to show how much you love someone.

You said it.. it was optional. I pesonally don't wanna play a game with people making out as to show that they're deeply in love with eachother... having sex isn't the only way nor the best way to show how much you love someone. gamingqueen

It can be one of the ultimate expressions of it, particularly in the way Mass Effect handled the act. It showed both characters allowing themselves to become vulnerable to one another.

So long as we continue to see a more mature slant on sex scenes in games I'm all for them in moderation. I'd actually love to see developers skew back on violence in the same way, since it's far more meaningful when it builds to a climax rather than running around tearing enemies into bloody heaps all the time.

I think it was last week's 1up podcast that had someone saying they'd like to play a game where you only use one bullet, so it gives you more of a sense of what it's like to shoot someone, and actually makes you think about the decision you must make (Condemned was like this). I'm tiring of typing Mass Effect, but that was how the sex scene worked in that game.

It's as "necessary" as anything else is. Largely because the ridiculously out-of date, offensive mindset so many people have about the "evils" of sex need to be removed from society completely. One of the most important, natural parts of humanity has been censored, made taboo, villified by small minded idiots. The fact that so many people think sex in video games would be "damaging" to the players says lots about the insidious stupidity and small minded blame culture that surrounds the world, and NOTHING about the completely normal thing sex is.

Personally, I would have MORE sexuality in games, both straight and gay if nothing else, because people's prejudices need to be tackled and removed. There is nothing wrong with sex whatsoever, it is not evil or dangerous, your kids aren't going to be warped by seeing it. If games want to be treated as sophisticated art like any other, they NEED to include this most vital element of human nature.

The primary market for video games is the young and young adults (though the population of adult gamers is rapidly growing), so I believe there is some merit in making sure that adult and mature scenes are warranted before their inclusion unless the game itself is specifically designed for adults. In a sense, I do believe they need to be justified.Bozanimal

This is where we part on a fundemental level.

I guess the next line of questioning then would be how sexual situations could be, "done right." This is the part I'm still chewing on, not only when it might add value, but how it might then be presented or add to the game's mechanics, because even though I believe it is okay to do so I do not know when or how sexuality might be used in a game in a way that makes sense.Bozanimal

It would be the same as anything else about a game - completely subjective. I really don't see where the need to turn it into a philosophical--or worse, moral--question is coming from.

As anything else, sex can be depicted in a lot of different ways be it beautiful and emotional, primal and raw, or dark and disturbing. Dead or Alive is an example of sexuality done right, in my opinion. Bouncing boobies is awesome in a juvenile kind of way and completely fits the game's overall feel. On the flipside, Fahrenheit's (Indigo Prophecy) sex scene felt all wrong. Not because of the sex depiction itself which was very tasteful, but simply because it came out of nowhere and just felt thrown in. There was no context to it. I don't understand why does sex have to be depicted in a certain way to be done right. It's all relative.

Sex has no less of a right to be in videogames than it does to be in movies.

If 2 chicks kiss in a movie it can skip by with a PG-13 rating. If this happens in videogames it gets slapped with an MA rating and is bombasted by politicians the world over as being interactive porn.

This is where we part on a fundemental level.UpInFlames

Oh, I'm not sure that's the case. I'm more thinking on paper here; on one hand as a mature adult I enjoy adult entertainment and have no issues with other people enjoying it as well. To this end, games like The Guy Game and Leisure Suit Larry - classic - are targeted to their audiences and entertain those demographics. No problems there. But there seems to be some question as to whether it is appropriate in gaming, for one reason or another, moreso than other entertainment. I think the reasoning behind that might be tied to the misperception that only children and kids play video games. I'm not sure, and I think it is worth discussing all of these issues to determine what is appropriate, what is necessary, what rights developers and producers do and should have, etc. Personally I believe video games are like any other artistic medium - film, literature, painting, etc. - and deserves all of the same protections that those mediums are given. So while it might appear I am taking a stance one way or another, I'm really putting thoughts to paper (or type, as it were).

Cheers,

Boz

Well sex is as neccessary as unreasoned violence...nice when it´s there,but you won´t miss it if it´s not.As long as the game is good,nobody cares anyway.

Tale of Genji

'nuff said.

sex seems to be big topic in gaming industry, mostly because it isn't allowed in the industry.

as far as games are concerned, mostly we don't need sex. Xenogears, Xenosaga, and some other games did have implied sex scene that didn't show anything and due to those scenes the drama within the game and the story came to the players more powerfully, but those scenes showed nothing. You don't need to show sex itself to get the message across and show the important romance between characters.

would sex itself have made those scene better? Personally I don't think so. Even in movies it is difficult to see sex scenes being very romantic. Usually the moments they have after sex can tell more stories to the players as well as emotions.

I think only place sex and games is needed together is porn industry..... and some games like Leisure Suit Larry, and Manhunt 3 which probably will be about raping women because killing men brutally is losing the sick factor now.

TriangleHard

I was just thinking of Xenogears too. It doesn't need to be explicitly shown, but an implication like in Xenogears seems perfectly fitting.

sex is a part of life so it is as necessary in a game as is any other part of life. IE: when it fits. Nothing is really "necessary", but these things can add to the experience and are a part of the game creators' vision. what more need be said?OneWingedAngeI

I completely agree.

well after all's said and done, sex itself might not be part of gaming industry but the idea of sex is huge part of gaming industry.

At least in terms of sales.

Can anyone honestly say DoA would've had success it had now without the trio of hot virtual chicks and bouncing boobs?

having cute virtual chicks and bouncing boobs don't make fighting game any better, but it sure hell is a great eye candy and extra entertainment as well as being secure money flow.

I mean to sell sex, developers go out of their way to do so. Lara wears short shorts when there is nothing but snow around her. In terms of art, that's a major failure not being able to adjust to your surroundings.

To be very honest, I do have more fun with games when it has hot virtual chick in it for me to scream "moe~" so in a way sex is needed in games, but in terms of storytelling, artistic approach, expression, gameplay, etc it is not needed.

About sexuality...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkRTyP86Jcg

It's as "necessary" as anything else is. Largely because the ridiculously out-of date, offensive mindset so many people have about the "evils" of sex need to be removed from society completely. One of the most important, natural parts of humanity has been censored, made taboo, villified by small minded idiots. The fact that so many people think sex in video games would be "damaging" to the players says lots about the insidious stupidity and small minded blame culture that surrounds the world, and NOTHING about the completely normal thing sex is.

ViscaBarcaInter

definitely agreed. There are so many other more relevant conversations in a game forum (such as, are random battles really ever necessary?). That this even comes up illustrates our hypersensitivity to one of the most basic and necessary acts for any biological lifeform. Certainly there are a host of other ideas that make their way into games we could argue over the necessity of, but we don't - so why this? I don't mean to be condescending, but there are a lot of us out there that could use some growing up (myself included, i'm sure). If someone wants to put sex in a game, i say go for it. Besides, when has "necessary" ever had anything to do with "entertainment?" Just make the game you want to play, and if I have a problem with it, i'll play something else.