Cheating versus Time Saving

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mstc_Q

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#1 mstc_Q
Member since 2007 • 1901 Posts

So, some people have called me a cheater on several occasions when I've used hacking devices to boost my levels in roleplaying games, or get money in some action games that require inordinate amounts of it to purchase the best weapons.



Personally, I don't consider this cheating. When a game requires a grind to experience the whole thing, it's simply one of those unnecessary delays that I don't really consider all that fun. If I were willing to put hours of time into the game, I would have the exact same result, except with a hacking device, I can spend that precious time doing other things.
Killing the same monster over and over again doesn't improve my skill in the game, it only causes me to sink into reptetitive processes that seem to work time and time again, and if I let it, it could even destroy my ability to be innovative in new situations.

Do you consider it cheating? That is, using some sort of method in a grinding situation to get the reward without doing the grind?

In my opinion, Cheating describes creating a situation in which you are able to do things that you otherwise could not do in the game; using hacks to avoid grinding doesn't fall under that category because if I were willing to put the time in, I would have the stuff. IE Godmode cheating versus getting the best armor and weapons in FFX; there's a big difference.

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nosferatu

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#2 nosferatu
Member since 2002 • 4292 Posts

In all honesty, I don't consider any sort of modification of a single-player game to be cheating. You are not robbing anybody else of their experience nor are you giving yourself any sort of competitive advantage.

I often find myself using cheats, mods, etc to maximize my enjoyment of a game. I'll use a particular example involving FPS's with health meters that is almost universal for me. I am extremely OCPD (obsessive compulsive personality disorder... look it up, it's not as bad as it sounds and I bet many of you will be surprised to find you are too, it tends to fit many gamers' mindsets) and therefore do not like to save if I have expended too much health or ammo on a particular encounter. Instead, I will find myself repeating the same area until near perfection is achieved. The problem is, I'm a medical student and don't really have the time for that (at least, not with my unending appetite for new games). Combine those 2 things and, for the sake of my time and sanity, I really only have 1 choice: I cheat. I often turn on invincibility and infinite ammo in these kinds of games (Halflife 2 and Doom 3 being the most recent examples I can think of where I did this since most shooters have moved away from health meters).

This is essentially accomplishing the same thing as my repetitive replaying of an area with quick save and quick load, except it takes me FAR less time. This increases MY satisfaction with the game: the ultimate consideration. I still play the game as if I didn't have the cheats on. I go out of my way to try and avoid getting hit, take cover, etc.... I just know that at the end of it I won't have to actually worry about redoing that segment because I'm not 100% satisfied with my outcome.

I sometimes find myself doing similar things in resource collection RTS's that have extensive buildup times due to long resource collection periods or, as mentioned earlier, RPG's that have endless grinds (see: reasons I quit WoW). These "cheats" increase my enjoyment of the game as they eliminate the elements I dislike and have absolutely no impact on others. How is this anything but beneficial?

For those who want to proclaim that my "cheating" robs me of experiencing the game as it is intended to be experienced, I would argue back that I am compensating for flaws in the game design (at least, flaws as they are perceived by me). I recently played through and beat COD4 on veteran with no cheats because the experience felt right without them. I only use them when I feel the game warrants it.

I also may be a different type of gamer from many of you. I am not a "challenge" gamer: I perceive no added benefit to overcoming a significant, yet frustrating challenge (by no means does this mean I like things overly easy though, I tend to default to the "hard" mode of most games). Instead, I often find myself to be an "experience" gamer: I like to see what new is coming, the additions to the story, etc. Perhaps this difference may explain it better to some of you.

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DeathByOrc

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#3 DeathByOrc
Member since 2006 • 52 Posts
I personally don't use cheats because I like a good challenge, but I really don't care if anyone else uses cheats in single player. I only care when people hack or cheat in multiplayer.
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foxhound_fox

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#4 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Do I consider modifying a single-player experience cheating? Hell no, I enjoy it myself quite a bit, with some games it can end up being quite fun and add length to the game (cheats in games like Doom, GTA, Timesplitters, etc), or in your case shorten it. :P

It is when people modify their games to gain a competitive advantage in multiplayer when I take offense.
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skp_16

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#5 skp_16
Member since 2005 • 3854 Posts

In your case, no.

I also hate level grinding. I don't like to do thing for so long that doesn't progress the story.

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1fast6

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#6 1fast6
Member since 2004 • 729 Posts

I too hate level grinding... it all comes down to the level of frustration I am experiencing... if the game is ceasing to be fun at a particular point, I do not hesitate to throw in a cheat to move on... IMHO, particularly hard or frustrating levels take away from the entertainment experience of the game... imagine if you are watching a movie, and for some reason, in the middle, just as it is getting really interesting, suddenly the "play" button on the remote no longer works, because the movie producer has decided that a combination of buttons must be pushed in the correct sequence and at the right time to get the movie to resume playing... NOBODY would argue that the movie producer decided it should be that way and looking for workarounds would be cheating...

besides, I get my challenges from real life, not video games...

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Thiago26792

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#7 Thiago26792
Member since 2007 • 11059 Posts
I really don't like using cheat codes on games, to be honest.
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mstc_Q

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#8 mstc_Q
Member since 2007 • 1901 Posts

I'm glad that a lot of you agree...


But here's an interesting twist. Lets say I figured out how to hack in World of Warcraft and not get caught; but I only used the hacks to attain the best gear possible for my character saving myself literally hundreds of hours of time.

Is this cheating?

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DeathByOrc

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#9 DeathByOrc
Member since 2006 • 52 Posts

I'm glad that a lot of you agree...


But here's an interesting twist. Lets say I figured out how to hack in World of Warcraft and not get caught; but I only used the hacks to attain the best gear possible for my character saving myself literally hundreds of hours of time.

Is this cheating?

mstc_Q
I say screw em over, I hate WoW :P
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ViscaBarcaInter

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#10 ViscaBarcaInter
Member since 2007 • 382 Posts
I think what you're doing IS cheating in the technical sense, but in a single player game it means nothing.
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mstc_Q

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#11 mstc_Q
Member since 2007 • 1901 Posts
[QUOTE="mstc_Q"]

I'm glad that a lot of you agree...


But here's an interesting twist. Lets say I figured out how to hack in World of Warcraft and not get caught; but I only used the hacks to attain the best gear possible for my character saving myself literally hundreds of hours of time.

Is this cheating?

DeathByOrc

I say screw em over, I hate WoW :P

But is it screwing them over?

I mean, if I wanted to, I could play all day, lose sleep, and attain the exact same thing by giving the proper amount of time.

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strayzilla

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#12 strayzilla
Member since 2004 • 560 Posts
Online it is cheating. It is messing up an online economy for certain amount of gear. Offline would be no issue.
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Ash2X

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#13 Ash2X
Member since 2005 • 3035 Posts

I think it depends a lot on the game.There are some games who are just poorly designed and unbeliveable hard through that.I personally don´t cheat often and only in special cases.

For example : I finished Blazing Angels almost completely on XBox and bought it for 360.After finishing all usual stuff and made most of the stuff already,I used cheats to save time becouse I was fed up with it.

In case of State of Emergency there was a mission I had to throw molotov cocktails into stores...which had more then egnough glitches.I cheated to make it because you had 5 chanches for 3 stores or you had to repeat it.After having luck with 2 stores,the 3rd didn´t work,no matter what I did.So I cheated some molotov cocktails.

In case of FarCry Instincts I cheated a bit on the highest difficulty because one hit often costed 1/4 to 1/3 of your energy which is almost impossible thanks to the game design (too much enemys that hit alsmost perfect).

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ebbderelict

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#14 ebbderelict
Member since 2005 • 3992 Posts
I think what you're doing IS cheating in the technical sense, but in a single player game it means nothing.ViscaBarcaInter
Agreed. I think it is cheating... but who cares? It's one of those things where we need to use a word that has a bad association with it, but there is no really bad thing going on here. Cheating. Modifying game elements to increase the joy-level. Semantics.
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nosferatu

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#15 nosferatu
Member since 2002 • 4292 Posts

I'm glad that a lot of you agree...


But here's an interesting twist. Lets say I figured out how to hack in World of Warcraft and not get caught; but I only used the hacks to attain the best gear possible for my character saving myself literally hundreds of hours of time.

Is this cheating?

mstc_Q

Yes, this is cheating. As soon as what you do impacts others (in this case, it devalues the time and effort others have spent towards attaining the same thing in a game where said gear is the main source of competitiveness) then you are cheating in a way that I cannot endorse. Do what you want, whenever you want as long as it only affects you. The moment that effect spreads to impacting others and their experience then I can no longer condone it.

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Lostboy1224

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#16 Lostboy1224
Member since 2007 • 3425 Posts
i hate needless grinding as well, and I don't really care if someone chooses the shortcut to save hours of needless grinding. The only time i even really care about people cheating is multiplayer games (halo, COD4, RB6 2). Just keep on having fun, that is what is important.
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kfjl

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#17 kfjl
Member since 2004 • 2469 Posts

I think the description in the original post is cheating, but it's the cheating equivalent of jaywalking or running a red light -- very minor. I don't do it, but I don't blame anyone who does because mindless time-wasting grinding is silly.

The WoW example is definitely cheating though. I'm guessing you'd get banned by Blizzard if they caught you with that.

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SirFrosty

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#18 SirFrosty
Member since 2006 • 610 Posts
Personally, I don't like to cheat in videogames until I have finished the main campaign. Also, I will not cheat to get 360 Achievements unless the Achievement is literally impossible without cheats (i.e. Buy a Guitar Already Achievement for Guitar Hero III...How in God's name is it possible to play Knights of Cydonia, One, or The Devil Went Down to Georgia with a 360 controller?). However, I don't mind when other people do it, as long as they don't cheat to beat something, then begin bragging to me about how they've beat it and I haven't...That's really annoying and makes me want to punch things :P
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mstc_Q

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#19 mstc_Q
Member since 2007 • 1901 Posts
[QUOTE="mstc_Q"]

I'm glad that a lot of you agree...


But here's an interesting twist. Lets say I figured out how to hack in World of Warcraft and not get caught; but I only used the hacks to attain the best gear possible for my character saving myself literally hundreds of hours of time.

Is this cheating?

nosferatu

Yes, this is cheating. As soon as what you do impacts others (in this case, it devalues the time and effort others have spent towards attaining the same thing in a game where said gear is the main source of competitiveness) then you are cheating in a way that I cannot endorse. Do what you want, whenever you want as long as it only affects you. The moment that effect spreads to impacting others and their experience then I can no longer condone it.

Assuming I'm only getting bind-on-pickup epic gear and not a whole bunch of gold (which WOULD ruin the economy, assuming I spent it on say, the Auction house and not just to get my flying mount) how is it that I am affecting anyone else?

Granted me having better gear than someone else affects people in a pvp situation, but as I said, if I was willing to put in the time, I could have the gear one way or another.

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Skylock00

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#20 Skylock00
Member since 2002 • 20069 Posts

Assuming I'm only getting bind-on-pickup epic gear and not a whole bunch of gold (which WOULD ruin the economy, assuming I spent it on say, the Auction house and not just to get my flying mount) how is it that I am affecting anyone else?

Granted me having better gear than someone else affects people in a pvp situation, but as I said, if I was willing to put in the time, I could have the gear one way or another.

mstc_Q

It still throws the game's economy/balance out of order (more of the latter, but still), and gives you an unfair advantage against other players whohave to invest that sort of time to either get the gear for PvP purposes, or even just PvE purposes.

It manipulates a game that is multiplayer focused to give you an unfair advantage. It's cheating.

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UT_Wrestler

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#21 UT_Wrestler
Member since 2004 • 16426 Posts
mstc, i would consider it cheating only if you use your hacked character in any sort of pvp setting. if you're only doing it in pve, then i have no problem
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nosferatu

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#22 nosferatu
Member since 2002 • 4292 Posts
[QUOTE="mstc_Q"]

Assuming I'm only getting bind-on-pickup epic gear and not a whole bunch of gold (which WOULD ruin the economy, assuming I spent it on say, the Auction house and not just to get my flying mount) how is it that I am affecting anyone else?

Granted me having better gear than someone else affects people in a pvp situation, but as I said, if I was willing to put in the time, I could have the gear one way or another.

Skylock00

It still throws the game's economy/balance out of order (more of the latter, but still), and gives you an unfair advantage against other players whohave to invest that sort of time to either get the gear for PvP purposes, or even just PvE purposes.

It manipulates a game that is multiplayer focused to give you an unfair advantage. It's cheating.

Agreed. You are also belittling the effort that others have put forth to achieve the same things which I have a problem with.

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#23 eXtenSion_FeAr
Member since 2008 • 25 Posts

I cheat only in single, not in multiplayer. As for single, I cheat only when:

1)Stupid bots rising from hell

2)Many bugs, poor performance/laggin - don't wont to die only due to sucking fps or bugs

3)If I don't want to improve my skill in shooting, or hunting) Some thing like that...