Critique of violence in E3 press conferences

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for CarnageHeart
CarnageHeart

18316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#1 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

Stolen from the Neogaf. Saw this a bit of time ago, but didn't see fit to post it because I didn't think there would be much of a debate. Contrary to my expectations, there has been a pretty substantial debate on the Neogaf which indicates there is more diversity of opinion in the gaming community than I believed, so hopefully this post will generate a similar debate here.

http://www.gamespite.net/verbalspew/archives/entry_1604.php

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399066

In short,the writer is bothered by the fact too many big publishers lead with sadism and gore (though he recognized that there are quite a few non-sadistic/gory games at the show in a post I pasted at the bottom).

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Last weekend, I had dinner with my fiancée's mother. She spent a good part of that meal talking about how harrowing it had been living in war-torn Vietnam through four decades of conflict before finally emigrating to America in the '70s. She talked about being forced to seek bomb shelters daily during the Japanese bombings of World War II, about her uncle who didn't make it to a shelter on time and was literally eviscerated by shrapnel from a Japanese bomb. She told me that before her uncle's younger brother could bring his body home, he had to gather the dead man's scattered organs and shove them indelicately back into his abdomen. She explained how terrifying the Tết Offensive was, since America's war in Vietnam was largely restricted to the countryside; no one had expected the conflict to come to the cities, least of all on a holiday for which a cease fire had been declared.

A day later, I found myself sitting in a press conference in Los Angeles, watching a couple of guys demo a videogame on a wall-sized screen. Their avatars hijacked a Russian helicopter, guns blazing, then took off from a jungle clearing before peppering villages of Vietnamese shanty huts with turret fire and missiles.

With the previous day's conversation fresh in my mind, it made for an uncomfortable juxtaposition -- one that that no one else in the theatre experienced, of course, but no less unsettling for its specificity. What are videogames if not an experiential medium whose greatest strength is the way they adapt to everyone's individual approaches and yield so many different results?

Honestly, I don't even remember which game was being demoed -- Medal of Honor? Black Ops? All the shooters I saw at this week's conferences kind of blurred together for me in a stream of non-stop explosions and guns and "ripped from the headlines" power fantasies... and my rigid E3 schedule and general lack of sleep certainly didn't help. I think it was the former, but I suppose that doesn't matter so much as what I do remember... namely, the sensation that the games industry has forgotten how to communicate by any means other than screaming at the top of its lungs about the awesomeness of lovingly rendered gore.

I get that violence is a part of videogames; it always has been. Arguably the first videogame ever was Computer Space, which consisted of using detailed physics models to blow up someone else's spaceship. Most of the games I enjoy are fairly violent as well, or at least use conflict as their primary mechanic. After thinking about it for most of the past week, I've come to the conclusion that what upsets me about most of this year's E3 press conferences is that most of them opened up by focusing on games that cross a line. It's an invisible, but it's one that -- for me, at least -- is very real. It's a line built of motivation, of intent, of tone. The near side of the line is a place where violence exists as a means to an end; on the far side, violence is the end in and of itself, and the goal is to explore it with sociopathic abandon.

This is, of course, the point at which everyone comes out of the woodwork to tell me I'm a puritanical idiot who doesn't understand the concept of escapism, which is to be expected. But my gaming tastes have always been defined to some degree by that invisible line. I couldn't stomach Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain when I realized that the game forces you to survive by killing innocent people who have been chained up in dungeons; I couldn't find any joy in the premise of Wild 9, whose advertising tagline gushed about how thrilling it is to torture enemies. That same part of me watched Cliff Bleszinki present Bulletstorm with increasing unease as he showed off the game's focus on brutally slaughtering random bad guys in increasingly violent ways to the accompaniment of sub-comic-book tough-guy dialog. Shortly before that, the part of me that plays through every Metal Gear Solid game with the MK-22 tranquilizer gun as my primary weapon and could only watch the Rising trailer with horror as Raiden visibly cut human enemies into graphically rendered meat slices.

(Incidentally, the first thing I asked in our Rising roundtable interview is whether or not it's actually possible to take a non-lethal approach to the game. Supposedly, you can; disarming human enemies -- and not literally dis-arming them, I mean by destroying their weapons -- is a valid tactic, while the game will provide lots of robot foes in order to give you things to cut more directly without feeling bad about it. So that's something, I guess.)

I really enjoyed Sam Keith's The Maxx in high school, and a sequence in the comic's sixth issue has stuck with me over the years. The protagonist is ambushed by an assassin named Mako, who sets about pummeling Maxx as the scene cuts back and forth to a conversation about violence in the media; meanwhile, the comic's villain (of sorts), Mr. Gone, narrates the Maxx/Mako battle, editorializing on the manipulative nature of how violence is presented: "An' here's where th' hero is trapped! The evil villain is unstoppable! Look how strong he is! How powerful! 'Fight back!' we scream. 'Don't just take it! Fight back!'" And of course, the villain wails on the hero until a turning point is reached and the hero is finally able cut loose in retaliation -- but his own use of violence is of course fully justified by all that's been inflicted on him, so we can feel good about him resorting to the same means as the bad guy, because the bad guy deserves it.

Terry Pratchett touched on the same topic in The Fifth Elephant as surly-but-good guy Sam Vimes barely survives a werewolf's game of cat-and-mouse (er, dog-and-mouse?) and is eventually forced to kill the villain out of desperate self-protection. At that moment, Vimes rejects the urge to make an action hero quip as he strikes the fatal blow, aware that the moment he takes pleasure in the act he's reduced himself to a monster, same as the villain.

For me, those are two defining statements on the role and nature of violence in the media, and they're all the more effective for the way in which they're delivered in the context of media. I don't know that anyone's ever done the same thing with gaming, though -- BioShock's golf club sequence is the closest thing that comes to mind, or maybe The Sorrow in Metal Gear Solid 3, which is a shame given how thoroughly violence is woven into the fabric of gaming. You'd think someone would have stepped back and said, "Wait, here's another way." Unfortunately, it's clear from E3 that games are still very much in their creative adolescence, and that no one's really questioning why violence is so intrinsic to the medium -- for the moment, the only question anyone seems to be asking is, "How much more over-the-top can we make the killing aspect of our game?"

I don't question that there was a lot of creativity on display in this year's E3 demos! But so much of it was centered around interesting new ways to pierce, dismember, and brutalize the bodies of enemies, and that bothers me. It's one thing for a game like, to take an example from my current playlist, Persona 3 Portable to send you into a dungeon every midnight to slay demonic shadows that threaten to consume the world of the living, and quite another thing altogether to earn bonus point for chasing down a mutant who's running from you in terror and killing it by emptying a machine gun into its anus. (Achievement unlocked: "Fire in the Hole.") One of these places the player in the role of protector, the other in the role of psychopath. Personally, it's not a jump I'm comfortable making.

I realize it's pointless for me to write about this, though. People already have opinions, and they're not about to sway one way or another because of a blog post. People who agree will say, "Right on!" while those who don't will tell me to chill out, lighten up, grow a brain/spine/sense of humor, etc., etc. It's a shame, because I'd like to see a rational dialog on this subject, but the change can ultimately only come from within the medium... and as long as there's money to be made from pushing boundaries, those boundaries will continue to be pushed. And hey, fair enough; there's range for all manner of expression in the medium. My concern is that, at the moment, this freedom expression seems to be weighted disproportionately toward a particularly vicious end of the spectrum.

Here's hoping for a little balance sooner than later. In the meantime, I guess I'll just dwell here on the boring, puritanical side of the line and watch the happenings on the other side with dismay.

-------------------

Yes, there was a wonderfully diverse software lineup at E3, but the point I'm making is that most of the press conferences -- the public showings that were streamed live to giant screens in Times Square! -- put the ultraviolence front-and-center. These games are the medium's ambassadors to the public. They are the games publishers have chosen to use as their vanguard, as their public faces, as the framework by which to define their businesses. That is my complaint: That this E3, the biggest publishers in the industry said, "You know all those stereotypes about games and gamers? They're totally true!"

Avatar image for QuistisTrepe_
QuistisTrepe_

4121

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 QuistisTrepe_
Member since 2010 • 4121 Posts

Yes, there was a wonderfully diverse software lineup at E3,but the point I'm makingis that most of the press conferences -- the public showings that were streamed live to giant screens in Times Square! -- put the ultraviolence front-and-center. These games are the medium's ambassadors to the public. They are the games publishers have chosen to use as their vanguard, as their public faces, as the framework by which to define their businesses.Thatis my complaint: That this E3, the biggest publishers in the industry said, "You know all those stereotypes about games and gamers? They're totally true!"

I suppose hyperbole, begets more hyperbole. All this violence which includes motion controls navigating a tube down a river and a little girl playing with a tiger.:?While I can appreciate someone bringing up the point about gratuitous violence to the point where it becomes just plain stupid, but I sense this author is making a whole lot out of nothing.

When the Wii is the current marketshare leader featuring all the bloodletting from a couple of plumbers and friends to go along with the ever harrowing Zelda with an elf slashing away at baddies I just can't seem to get concerned about all the violence that is front and center. In all of the Big Three's conferences iirc, we see families sharing fun times playing together. Games are about the gameplay, not the violence.

Avatar image for CarnageHeart
CarnageHeart

18316

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3 CarnageHeart
Member since 2002 • 18316 Posts

I think it makes sense to open the conferences with scenes which are as rough as the conference gets so as not to lull parents with a false sense of security ('LBP is such an adorable game! I'll let my kid watch Sony's entire conference').

Avatar image for QuistisTrepe_
QuistisTrepe_

4121

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#4 QuistisTrepe_
Member since 2010 • 4121 Posts

I think it makes sense to open the conferences with scenes which are as rough as the conference gets so as not to lull parents with a false sense of security ('LBP is such an adorable game! I'll let my kid watch Sony's entire conference').

CarnageHeart

That had crossed my mind as well. As if to say, "See, see, look how they deceive people, those treacherous game companies!!!" Damned if you do, damned if you don't. The demographic of E3 is typically going to be comprised of younger, gaming enthusiasts. You have to play to the crowd.

Avatar image for UpInFlames
UpInFlames

13301

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 41

User Lists: 0

#5 UpInFlames
Member since 2004 • 13301 Posts

Honestly, this guy seems like just another wuss who can't stand some wholesome violence. Nothing wrong with that, there's plenty to choose from if you're not into that. Actually, with bull**** like Kinect, Move and Wii taking center stage, there wasn't ENOUGH violence at this year's E3. And I would much rather have any FPS be an ambassador of gaming than fitness "games" or whatever.

I am, however, annoyed by his first paragraph about his mother-in-law's war experience as if it's actually relevant to whatever point he's trying to make. Unlike the dude who wrote this, I actually experienced war first-hand (my home was destroyed, people I knew died, my uncle ended up with five bullets and three shrapnels in his stomach and literally held his insides in his hands on the way to the hospital - he survived, thank God) and all I can say is that the mere mention of it in the context of video game violence is incredibly idiotic.

Avatar image for DarkCatalyst
DarkCatalyst

21074

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#6 DarkCatalyst
Member since 2002 • 21074 Posts
(Achievement unlocked: "Fire in the Hole.")CarnageHeart
I LOL'd.
Avatar image for patsfan217
patsfan217

146

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#7 patsfan217
Member since 2009 • 146 Posts

I can see the point he's trying to make with his story, but I think that if you try and carry your ethics code into video games and feel bad about what you're doing to things that don't actually exist, you're missing the point. When I've had a tough day, it can feel really good to come home and blast some virtual person in the face. Of course, there are some people that confuse the line between video games and reality, and frankly those people really shouldn't be exposed to games such as CoD and Gears of War. You can go home and be an outlaw in RDR, butyou will most likely be completely normal and friendly the next day, without your play time affecting your personality outside of games.

As for this year's E3, I was really excited to see games such as Bulletstorm that were more creative, even if they're promotingthemost brutal way you can kill someone.

Avatar image for LoG-Sacrament
LoG-Sacrament

20397

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 33

User Lists: 0

#8 LoG-Sacrament
Member since 2006 • 20397 Posts
i agree that much of the video game releases we see feature violence as the major gameplay mechanic. however, publishers are going to publish whatever is selling. you put a gamer down with a fresh new game and they can do whatever they want. what do they want to do? put as many holes in people as they can manage, of course (yay for the 16-30 male demographic!). thats part of the reason why i dont object to the new audience motion controls are bringing in. sure, youre seeing a lot of little girls and prune juice drinkers joining now, but hopefully its just the first wave of a new audience that demands entirely new yet equally mature gaming content.
Avatar image for StanLords
StanLords

55

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#9 StanLords
Member since 2010 • 55 Posts

I understand where this guy is coming from but I think there might be a little too much sensitivity to this. An issue that we have here in the States is that video games are enjoyed by most demographics, all ages enjoy video games. That being said the way censorship works with parents is horrible in this country, I remember being in a Target and seeing a mother let her 9 (ish) buy Grand Theft Auto..that shouldn't happen. In other countries (Australia and Britain for instance) the average age of a gamer is a lot higher. We need to age sensor our games a bit more, that is true. But violence in video games is fine.

Going to this guys point of the presentation of the violence in E3, there is a simple solution, don't watch and don't play. It is your prerogative to watch or not to watch, and if criticism is your way of expressing yourself that's fine too. The problem comes when people who don't want to take part in the violence in video games try to prevent everyone else from playing games (ie California). If you don't like violence in video games that is fine, but that does not mean that the creative aspect of video games is in its "adolescence". That is simply attacking something because it unsettles you; it's not an impartialopinion. As far as Time square goes, I live in New York and work near time square. I went to check out the live broadcast for a bit, I didn't see anything inappropriate ( I obviously didn't stay the whole day or multiple days) but I suppose that as a New Yorker my concern with violence in Times Square does not include violence in Video games, so I suppose that is MY biased opinion

Avatar image for Solori
Solori

462

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 17

User Lists: 0

#10 Solori
Member since 2007 • 462 Posts

There are two major flaws in the blog. First, the guy is making a generalization from what amounts to anecdotal evidence. It is not logical to conclude that the gaming industry as a whole loves violence with a "sociopathic abandon" just because he didn't like the ad campaigns for the select number of FPSs that he watched at the latest E3. Second, he undercuts his own argument with examples of games that he enjoys that do not treat violence with sociopathic abandon.

But what really hit me when I read this blog was that this was one more gamer who falls in line with all the censorship bs that is out there. It always amazes me how many gamers out there buy into the arguments that violence in video games is dangerous and deserves special condemnation over all other forms of violence in the media.

It's interesting how these kinds of gamers compartmentalize the violence. It's OK for them to enjoy video game violence because (1) they are well-balanced, mature individuals (yeah, even the 15 year olds and younger gamers consider themselves mature), but they fear for the fate of those unbalanced immature gamers out there with their lazy, no good parents who let them play violent video games and torture the family cat or (2) their games are OK because they only include socially acceptable violence, but they fear for the fate of those who play games with socially unacceptable violence because who can resist such violence. Clearly, the blogger falls into the second category. He makes it clear that the kinds of violent video games that he enjoys are perfectly OK and socially acceptable but the kinds of violent video games that he doesn't enjoy are seen as evil and corrupting. I call bs on that whole line of argument.

I especially take issue with the blogger's notion that the only socially acceptable use of violence in the media is when a hero is relunctantly forced to punish a bad guy who deserves it. Talk about "creative adolescence." Painting the world black and white/good versus evil is not a mature world view.

Are there games out there that I find distasteful? Hell yes. Am I scared by them? No way. It has been my anecdotal observation that the really distasteful games do not sell. I'm perfectly comfortable with letting the market take care of this issue. I'm certainly not going to sit down next to the blogger on his high perch and "look with dismay" on all the people who do not share his narrow viewpoint of what is acceptable in video games and what is not.

Avatar image for StanLords
StanLords

55

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 0

#11 StanLords
Member since 2010 • 55 Posts

There are two major flaws in the blog. First, the guy is making a generalization from what amounts to anecdotal evidence. It is not logical to conclude that the gaming industry as a whole loves violence with a "sociopathic abandon" just because he didn't like the ad campaigns for the select number of FPSs that he watched at the latest E3. Second, he undercuts his own argument with examples of games that he enjoys that do not treat violence with sociopathic abandon.

But what really hit me when I read this blog was that this was one more gamer who falls in line with all the censorship bs that is out there. It always amazes me how many gamers out there buy into the arguments that violence in video games is dangerous and deserves special condemnation over all other forms of violence in the media.

It's interesting how these kinds of gamers compartmentalize the violence. It's OK for them to enjoy video game violence because (1) they are well-balanced, mature individuals (yeah, even the 15 year olds and younger gamers consider themselves mature), but they fear for the fate of those unbalanced immature gamers out there with their lazy, no good parents who let them play violent video games and torture the family cat or (2) their games are OK because they only include socially acceptable violence, but they fear for the fate of those who play games with socially unacceptable violence because who can resist such violence. Clearly, the blogger falls into the second category. He makes it clear that the kinds of violent video games that he enjoys are perfectly OK and socially acceptable but the kinds of violent video games that he doesn't enjoy are seen as evil and corrupting. I call bs on that whole line of argument.

I especially take issue with the blogger's notion that the only socially acceptable use of violence in the media is when a hero is relunctantly forced to punish a bad guy who deserves it. Talk about "creative adolescence." Painting the world black and white/good versus evil is not a mature world view.

Are there games out there that I find distasteful? Hell yes. Am I scared by them? No way. It has been my anecdotal observation that the really distasteful games do not sell. I'm perfectly comfortable with letting the market take care of this issue. I'm certainly not going to sit down next to the blogger on his high perch and "look with dismay" on all the people who do not share his narrow viewpoint of what is acceptable in video games and what is not.

Solori

Good points all around.

Avatar image for T_REX305
T_REX305

11304

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12 T_REX305
Member since 2010 • 11304 Posts

very long. someone summerize it for me plz :P

Avatar image for icy06
icy06

727

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#13 icy06
Member since 2005 • 727 Posts

Well I only read half of it.

But, I don't see what the big deal is regarding violence in video games. I mean way back in history we had gladiators that would fight to the death. We have films the depict the most horrific gore / killings you could imagine. Now we have video games that depict violence. What is the problem? I don't want to hear anyone say "but video games are interactive" either. Yes, they are interactive, but they are still a work of fiction.