Damsels in Distress Part 2: Schrodinger's Misogynist

For anybody who cares, Anita Sarkeesian got her new video up.  It's 25 minutes long and can be found on youtube.

I anticipate the level-headed, rational and logical arguments the expert posters of this board are inevitably preparing.

This sounds like pretentious, overly sensitive and political correct buncha silliness. I'm not gonna click that link unless someone tells me what is is!

This sounds like pretentious, overly sensitive and political correct buncha silliness. I'm not gonna click that link unless someone tells me what is is!

xWoW_Rougex

There's really not much to say about it. She doesn't say anything new or interesting, she never comes off as being intelligent or saying anything new to make her worth watching. So far her project would barely have taken any time, thought, or research to accomplish. I think she gives a few poor examples like Resident Evil 5 and Shadows of the Damned (which was pretty much a parody), the rest is just obvious. I usually have the problem that when people talk about issues of sexism or poor stories in games they always seem to focus on big budget titles, in movie industry you don't expect quality writing from a Michael Bay summer blockbuster with millions behind it, the video game industry is pretty much the same way.

It's a shame that she got such a ridiculous amount of money for it when just about anyone I watch online could probably do a better job and already make better quality content and put it out at a much faster pace then her for a much lower profit. Of course, that really isn't her fault.

She isn't personally interesting or talented, her videos could be made by just about any person with a webcam, and she is doing nothing to make her series interesting, by talking to people in the industry or finding any new information for example. There's really no reason to care about her at all. 

And for the TC, why the signature?

VC is clearly a SRPG, only fools who have no concept of the different sub genres in the RPG genre would ever call VC a JRPG.

Is that not true?

Is that not true?Legolas_Katarn

Since JRPG isn't actually a genre, but rather a perceived style based entirely on where the game is made, I thought it was ironic that somebody assert that a game couldn't be a JRPG and SRPG at the same time. The very nature of a game being a "JRPG" is something in flux, since the label really only refers to its country of origin, and not any specific elements of design.

That said, I've had that signature for a really long time, and I think it's probably due for a change.

On topic, I posted this thread with the hope of getting a discussion going by actual gamers, because I was tired of having reddit and tumblr feminists all up in my **** because I think Sarkeesian is a total blow-hard.

Congratulations to her for finally getting part 2 up... About 6 months after she was supposed to have finished the series.

i did actually like her first video on damsels in distress. i didn't agree with every single point, but it was an interesting look at the overall trope and how people might be put off by it. and really, it was a lot better than the snarky response videos that were made with smug position of absolute correctness rather than making a level point and supporting it.

i watched the first 6 minutes of this one and may eventually get around to finishing it, but she came off just as silly as her more vocal detractors even if she meant it in earnest. i mean, she starts the video off with a warning for violence towards women. why is violence towards women specifically so worthy of warning? why not violence in general? it's inefficient wording at best and contradictory at worst. feminism is about the equality of women rather than seeking special shelter for them. both videos are supposed to be about the offensiveness of progressing this idea that women need to be saved.

I don't have her skills as a pop-culture critic, so I may be disqualified from having an opinion on this matter.

 

Since JRPG isn't actually a genre,

Greyfeld

Well, it is a subgenre.

If you read her thesis paper, you'd realize that the term "critic" is used far too loosely in regards to Anita Sarkeesian.Greyfeld

She calls herself a pop-culture critic.

Hm...pretty much what I expected. I have no problem with her seriously examining how women are portrayed in video games. But I don't know if Saarkessian is the right one to do it. So far I think these two Damsel in Distress videos have been far more fair and far better than a lot of her other videos. But in many cases in that video, I think she's still just cherry picking certain aspects of these game, then twisting them around to make it look like its sexism or misogyny. And on another note, what's been taking so long and what in the world did she do with all that money? Her videos still look mostly the same as her previous ones, they're just much longer with fancier effects.

I usually have the problem that when people talk about issues of sexism or poor stories in games they always seem to focus on big budget titles, in movie industry you don't expect quality writing from a Michael Bay summer blockbuster with millions behind it, the video game industry is pretty much the same way.Legolas_Katarn

This is a pretty good point that I didn't even think about.

and what in the world did she do with all that money?Lucky_Krystal

This is a pretty good point that I didn't even think about.

For the most part game stories and writing were at their best in the 90s (more for adventure and WRPG PC titles) and earlier 2000s when games had lower budgets and didn't need to sell millions of copies to be considered a success. Story quality started to suffer and now it is getting better again, but for the most part it is getting better because of indie and low budget titles, it's also where we tend to see more female characters and characters of a difference race as main characters (The Walking Dead, Portal 2, Braid, Journey, Spec Ops, Lone Survivor, Persona, Shin Megami Tensei, A Hate Story, etc).

Not to say that we never have descent stories coming from higher budget games but usually when we do the game ends up being nowhere near as popular as other big budget games or the story is considered excellent to new gamers while being considered almost laughably simple to people who have been playing games for a long time.

[QUOTE="Lucky_Krystal"]and what in the world did she do with all that money?Black_Knight_00

Really the videos should barely cost her any money, most online critics off of sites like thatguywiththeglasses do better effects, longer videos, a new video a week, etc but I don't think she really asked for that much money. I can't really blame her that people just kept giving her more and more money, Kickstarter doesn't have an option to end your project once its goal is met (likely because they wouldn't make as much money themselves).

I can tell what she hasn't used the money on, cause she's still wearing those same lumberjack shirts

That is odd. Hasn't it been the same thing from the Kickstarter, to both videos, and even on an interview she did recently?

I can't really blame her that people just kept giving her more and more moneyLegolas_Katarn

I can.

The Damsel in Distress trope is surely a problem to be examined but Anita fails to create stirring conversation by simply ignoring various story arcs or origins of the game in both original material and place of development.

First of all, she coins the term "damsel in the fridge" which is basically about a woman that dies but the hero still has to save her. This usually involves freeing her soul or diving into hell to rescue her. One of her examples of such a trope is found in The Darkness II. Now, I understand what she's saying, but it isn't quite so black and white in that game. I'll spoiler tag the following for anyone interested in The Darkness and it's sequel who just haven't gotten around to it yet.

[spoiler] Jackie and Jenny's relationship (in the original game) was explored with maturity and hit a level of subtle depth we rarely see in video game characters (from a romantic perspective). Jenny's death wasn't simply a damsel, and this is clearly evident as she was the only one who remained strong during that scene. She kept her cool, tried to calm Jackie even when she had a gun to her head. She was a character. She wasn't this hollow shell who was simply a woman to fuel the player's power trip, no, she was a character that existed for a specific reason in a well written plot. In the sequel, Jenny is handled with the same maturity and the whole "her soul is trapped in hell" angle exists because The Darkness knows that's the only thing it has to keep Jackie on the hook. When Jackie frees her, he actually ends up imprisoning himself and releases his ultimate enemy, The Angelus which is the antithesis of the trope she's talking about [/spoiler]

Essentially, The Darkness and it's sequel both possess strong narratives with great characters. And that's what they are. They're characters. They exist to tell a story and they tell a strong one. Jenny is handled extremely well, as is her death. There will always be weak female characters because there are weak females in real life. I would love to see stronger female protagonists ala Beyond Good & Evil and Mirror's Edge too (looking forward to Remember Me), don't get me wrong, but to insult good games with great stories simply because they're similar to other not-so-hot titles is wrong to me.

The Darkness is also adapted from a comic book, and it does take a fair amount of liberties with the story but still. They weren't about to change characters around so that it was less stereotypical.

Now, and this is fun, she does list "Dante's Inferno" in the same category and I feel the exact opposite I do with The Darkness. Dante's Inferno completely misses the point of the poem. Beatrice is completely changed just to be a hollow girl in need of saving and that's too bad. It also took a ton of liberties with source material, and while I didn't expect them to make an action game where you walk around as a poet talking to stuff, it really didn't handle the source material well. At all. 

And I guess that's my problem with Anita. She just blankets everything. There are problems to be explored, ala Dante's Inferno, but she groups them with things that try, like The Darkness. It makes me wonder if she's played these games and actually saw how well Jackie and Jenny's relationship was handled or how whored up Beatrice was made, or did she just Google a list of games in which the player dies.

-snip-

IndianaPwns39

Sarkeesian made it quite clear in her latest video; in her mind, the context in which these tropes appear in video games is completely irrelevant, because it all feeds into the same issue of misogyny and violence toward women.

Honestly, I can't wait until the rebuttal videos start streaming across Youtube.

 

Sarkeesian made it quite clear in her latest video; in her mind, the context in which these tropes appear in video games is completely irrelevant, because it....

Greyfeld

......it helps rationalize her intellectual laziness while appearing to address a serious issue in her own mind.

Thanks for that link you posted earlier by the way. While I've known her to be a fraud, I never realized how cowardly she is. She's just a dime-a-dozen internet troll when you get right down to it. This is the nonsense that Kickstarter funds? Heh, suckers. No wonder Dennis Dyack is mounting a comeback.

Comments and ratings still disabled, things taken out of context completely and she makes it seem as if those games are all about saving the girl when they're not. I stopped at DMC4, come on bitch, weren't Trish, Lucia and Lady enough for you? Really? Just grab a damned game. Go to the nearest video game store, you know what? Order any video game online and play the damned game. 

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]

 

Sarkeesian made it quite clear in her latest video; in her mind, the context in which these tropes appear in video games is completely irrelevant, because it....

ZhugeL1ang

......it helps rationalize her intellectual laziness while appearing to address a serious issue in her own mind.

Thanks for that link you posted earlier by the way. While I've known her to be a fraud, I never realized how cowardly she is. She's just a dime-a-dozen internet troll when you get right down to it. This is the nonsense that Kickstarter funds? Heh, suckers. No wonder Dennis Dyack is mounting a comeback.

I've been pushing those videos for a while to try to raise awareness, whenever this topic comes up.  You'd be surprised how many people just ignore it and shift the goalposts of the discussion.  "Oh, so you're saying it's OK that people threatened her?!"  That's pretty much the point where I "Welp.." right out of there.

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]

 

Sarkeesian made it quite clear in her latest video; in her mind, the context in which these tropes appear in video games is completely irrelevant, because it....

ZhugeL1ang

......it helps rationalize her intellectual laziness while appearing to address a serious issue in her own mind.

Thanks for that link you posted earlier by the way. While I've known her to be a fraud, I never realized how cowardly she is. She's just a dime-a-dozen internet troll when you get right down to it. This is the nonsense that Kickstarter funds? Heh, suckers. No wonder Dennis Dyack is mounting a comeback.

Does she at least write Schrödinger and not Schrodinger?

Does she at least write Schrödinger and not Schrodinger?

GaussRiemann

The title of the thread isn't a reflection of the new video's title, but a reflection of my feelings on her "analysis."  And I didn't type out the O with the tiddle over it, because I didn't feel like trying to find the appropriate character in the character map.

[QUOTE="GaussRiemann"]

Does she at least write Schrödinger and not Schrodinger?

Greyfeld

The title of the thread isn't a reflection of the new video's title, but a reflection of my feelings on her "analysis."  And I didn't type out the O with the tiddle over it, because I didn't feel like trying to find the appropriate character in the character map.

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

-snip-

Greyfeld

Sarkeesian made it quite clear in her latest video; in her mind, the context in which these tropes appear in video games is completely irrelevant, because it all feeds into the same issue of misogyny and violence toward women.

Honestly, I can't wait until the rebuttal videos start streaming across Youtube.

Yes, and that's part of the reason I can't take her seriously.

Clearly, Interview with a Vampire and Twilight possess the same level of literary excellence because both involve vampires.

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]

[QUOTE="GaussRiemann"]

Does she at least write Schrödinger and not Schrodinger?

Black_Knight_00

The title of the thread isn't a reflection of the new video's title, but a reflection of my feelings on her "analysis."  And I didn't type out the O with the tiddle over it, because I didn't feel like trying to find the appropriate character in the character map.

But that wouldn't have been nearly as snarky or entertaining :P

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="Greyfeld"]

The title of the thread isn't a reflection of the new video's title, but a reflection of my feelings on her "analysis."  And I didn't type out the O with the tiddle over it, because I didn't feel like trying to find the appropriate character in the character map.

Greyfeld

But that wouldn't have been nearly as snarky or entertaining :P

[QUOTE="Slashless"]>open video >TRIGGER WARNING: ahahaha nice try Anita no views for you\ Legolas explains it well though.Black_Knight_00

It's pretty safe to argue she's not trying to get through to gamers, because well....anyone who actually plays video games knows that shes full of crap.

She's appealing to mislead and ignorant pseudo-feminists who do far more harm than good to real feminist movements that actually tackle important issues.  She does this because that's where her money come from.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="Slashless"]>open video >TRIGGER WARNING: ahahaha nice try Anita no views for you\ Legolas explains it well though.keech

It's pretty safe to argue she's not trying to get through to gamers, because well....anyone who actually plays video games knows that shes full of crap.

She's appealing to mislead and ignorant pseudo-feminists who do far more harm than good to real feminist movements that actually tackle important issues.  She does this because that's where her money come from.