Do you guys think bioware will actually improve DA3 from an RPG perspective?

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Decrate

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#1 Decrate
Member since 2004 • 1731 Posts

or will they continue to dumb it down and make it appeal to CoD fans. god i hope they learn from the poor reviews DA2 is getting, 78% on PC which was the highest rated platform for Origins which got a 90%.

i'm losing faith in this company because the dragon age franchise was suppose to be the spiritual successor to baldur's gate

and DA2 is the complete opposite of what gamers who played that legendary title wanted

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Evil_Saluki

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#2 Evil_Saluki
Member since 2008 • 5217 Posts

Don't be silly. Magic will be put into 2 spells, X button for attack spell and Square for Heal spell! Depending on if the monsters are clustered or if your player is at full or low health, it will either cast a single target attack spell, a fireball area effect spell or on the beneficial side-a heal if needed otherwise some kind of buff that's not already stacked on the target. Also if you need to go afk the game will play itself and auto resolve combat.

This time round your not even allowed to pick male or female, yet alone race, also not allowed to pick class, your a mage like it or lump it. Also away with all the side quests, a lot of people complained abot side quests being fetch quests so they going out the window altogether, the game will be a single rail road to completion with only 1 ending, although you can be good or evil on the way it has the same ending no matter what, oh and your character has a stupid beard that makes him look like Picards number one.

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Treflis

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#3 Treflis
Member since 2004 • 13757 Posts
I seem to recall that they agreed that they had done things that fans disliked and aimed to correct this in the next one.
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morrowindnic

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#4 morrowindnic
Member since 2004 • 1541 Posts

DA3 will suck. Me3 looks even more dumbed down then ME2, even after the DA2 fiasco. Yea, don't trust bioware.

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LoG-Sacrament

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#5 LoG-Sacrament
Member since 2006 • 20397 Posts

if you mean adding in more stat type things, then im not sure. DA2 already had more play in skill trees but it went largely unappreciated.

however, laidlaw did mention that one of the reasons for not having different armor sets for allies was that he didnt like the generic feel of the origins sets. if they give DA3 more development time, id think they would design custom sets for each ally and give everyone back their inventory screens.

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Black_Knight_00

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#6 Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 78 Posts
or will they continue to dumb it down and make it appeal to CoD fansDecrate
When did 'CoD fan' become synonym of "dumb"? I am a CoD fan, are you calling me stupid? Go ahead, speak freely
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Vyse_Legends

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#7 Vyse_Legends
Member since 2007 • 9387 Posts

My main problem with DA2(having loved Origins and only played the DA2 demo) was what they did to combat. Seems they ****ing gave everyone crack cocaine and nobody can sit still.:? They're idea of "quicker and funner" combat basically boiled down to making me mash the X button.:|

Though I heard PC you just click and it attacks continusly after but hey I own a PS3 so I get to eat ****.:D

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Decrate

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#8 Decrate
Member since 2004 • 1731 Posts

My main problem with DA2(having loved Origins and only played the DA2 demo) was what they did to combat. Seems they ****ing gave everyone crack cocaine and nobody can sit still.:? They're idea of "quicker and funner" combat basically boiled down to making me mash the X button.:|

Though I heard PC you just click and it attacks continusly after but hey I own a PS3 so I get to eat ****.:D

Vyse_Legends
i actually think the combat speed was an improvement, and i only mean the attack speed and animations, if origins had everything the same but had the animations sped up a bit so it wouldnt be as "slow", it would of been a much more enjoyable game because the one thing i hated the most was the mage attack animation you know the mages attack animation in DA2 is 100x better than the one they do in origins anyways the the only pro i can think of as far as the speed is concerned but yeah i think if they mix the depth of origins as far as story, inventory, stats, spells, side quests, etc, with the streamlined interface of DA2, and the animations of DA2 (but with less corpse explosions from a dagger stab), and make the graphics more like origins than the cartoony feel of DA2, then DA3 will be a success
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Elann2008

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#10 Elann2008
Member since 2007 • 33028 Posts
I seem to recall that they agreed that they had done things that fans disliked and aimed to correct this in the next one.Treflis
This. I hope they really do too!
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Black_Knight_00

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#11 Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 78 Posts
[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="Decrate"]or will they continue to dumb it down and make it appeal to CoD fansDecrate
When did 'CoD fan' become synonym of "dumb"? I am a CoD fan, are you calling me stupid? Go ahead, speak freely

most users on this site, even mods, agree that CoD is for casuals and the simple-minded thats as close an answer as ill give you, make what you want from it

Since when is a mod's opinion worth more than yours or mine or anyone else's? They're people like us, dude. Anyway, I don't really mind your insults, but I think someone who's calling people 'dumb' and 'simple minded' is trolling. Just because you don't like something it doesn't mean people that do are idiots
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wiouds

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#12 wiouds
Member since 2004 • 6233 Posts

I found DA2 to be more of a RPG than ME2.

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wizdom

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#13 wizdom
Member since 2003 • 10111 Posts
I love how a company can make 10 good games then one bad game and everyone says they suck and people start losing faith in them, it's silly and sad at the same time, was DA2 a bad game? Imo yes it was due to some of the things you said already, but I'm not going to lose faith in a company over one bad game, that's silly and going over board.
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Decrate

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#14 Decrate
Member since 2004 • 1731 Posts

I found DA2 to be more of a RPG than ME2.

wiouds
this is true sadly, but only in the core RPG sense (stats, items, etc) however, ME2 surpassed DA2 in graphics, STORY, sound, STORY, side quests, STORY, characters, etc
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Decrate

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#15 Decrate
Member since 2004 • 1731 Posts
I love how a company can make 10 good games then one bad game and everyone says they suck and people start losing faith in them, it's silly and sad at the same time, was DA2 a bad game? Imo yes it was due to some of the things you said already, but I'm not going to lose faith in a company over one bad game, that's silly and going over board.wizdom
i dont think its silly it shows the future of where the company is headed want an example? Final Fantasy use to be amazing, but one small error after another made it into the mess it is today with Final Fantasy XIV so you see it only takes 1 bad game to show that the company is losing its focus and until Final Fantasy comes out with another memorable game like 4,6,7,8,9,10 was, then i consider my theory correct
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dkdk999

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#16 dkdk999
Member since 2007 • 6754 Posts

They are probably not going to do another dragon age:origins. But they might make more of an rpg. Mass effect 3 will probably have more custimization than ME 2. I bet thats the same with this game.

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jsh020

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#17 jsh020
Member since 2010 • 1168 Posts

judging from ME2 and DR2 ide say bioware is easily the biggets train wreck compony since RARE

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jsh020

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#18 jsh020
Member since 2010 • 1168 Posts

I found DA2 to be more of a RPG than ME2.

wiouds
dont call ME2 a rpg, thats just insulting to all rpg's and rpg developers, ME2 was generic shooter #3233 with some very very very VERY minor leveling up that effected jack sh*t
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jsh020

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#19 jsh020
Member since 2010 • 1168 Posts

They are probably not going to do another dragon age:origins. But they might make more of an rpg. Mass effect 3 will probably have more custimization than ME 2. I bet thats the same with this game.

dkdk999
hate to break ti to yah but fromt he gameplay of it, they didnt, it actually looks like they took away more content if thats even freaking possible
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wiouds

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#20 wiouds
Member since 2004 • 6233 Posts

[QUOTE="wiouds"]

I found DA2 to be more of a RPG than ME2.

jsh020

dont call ME2 a rpg, thats just insulting to all rpg's and rpg developers, ME2 was generic shooter #3233 with some very very very VERY minor leveling up that effected jack sh*t

Sorry...Then again DA2 is more of a RPG than Halo and an other shooter.

I know that Mass effect 2 is an action choose your own adventure.

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BlackDevil99

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#21 BlackDevil99
Member since 2003 • 2329 Posts

loved origins, loved DA2, i have faith in bioware's awesomeness.

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dkdk999

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#22 dkdk999
Member since 2007 • 6754 Posts
[QUOTE="dkdk999"]

They are probably not going to do another dragon age:origins. But they might make more of an rpg. Mass effect 3 will probably have more custimization than ME 2. I bet thats the same with this game.

jsh020
hate to break ti to yah but fromt he gameplay of it, they didnt, it actually looks like they took away more content if thats even freaking possible

I've been trying to stay away from the gameplay videos. But do you mean there are less powers you can use or what ? I wouldn't say just because it's more of an action doesn't mean it can't have more rpg elements if that makes sense.
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GhoX

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#23 GhoX
Member since 2006 • 6267 Posts
If EA allows, I suspect it will improve. If EA just wants another cash cow rushed out, then probably not.
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190586385885857957282413308806

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#24 190586385885857957282413308806
Member since 2002 • 13084 Posts
I seem to recall that they agreed that they had done things that fans disliked and aimed to correct this in the next one.Treflis
BioWare public relations is working in the Bizarro world. Everything they say is negative about their game also has a huge positive. I don't know how many times they said they were getting rid of things in ME2 and DA2 to make the game deeper. (it would if you actually expanded on things you left in the game but BioWare seems to think this is automatic) Also in the interview where they admit they lost a bunch of fans, they say they gained a whole bunch in the process. They said they will read posts on message boards and address those issues. However it depends on what message boards they go to. If they just rely on their own message boards where it's a bunch of loyal followers, once a dev asks questions and gives their "Oh we're removing that for depth." excuse, the posters are just going to turn into groupies and most of them will agree to kiss ass.
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190586385885857957282413308806

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#25 190586385885857957282413308806
Member since 2002 • 13084 Posts

I love how a company can make 10 good games then one bad game and everyone says they suck and people start losing faith in them, it's silly and sad at the same time, was DA2 a bad game? Imo yes it was due to some of the things you said already, but I'm not going to lose faith in a company over one bad game, that's silly and going over board.wizdom

You act is if their 10 games have the same amount of quality in them which is untrue. BioWare's earlier games are usually seen as RPG classics and I'd say that extends all the way to KOTOR. ME had issues, ME2 has people arguing if it's really an RPG, There was that Sonic Game, Jade Empire was take it or leave it, NWN original campaign was boring but the expansions improved it. DA was some what a return to form but the amount of stuff they put in the game still wasn't as good as BG II and DA2 was a fiasco.

People aren't seeing 10 terrific games. They're seeing a decline, they're seeing games that basically qualify for being an RPG, they see games being made for the COD crowd which isn't even into RPG's. DAII is just the last straw for some people.

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190586385885857957282413308806

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#26 190586385885857957282413308806
Member since 2002 • 13084 Posts
I guess to answer the topic's question: Nothing. I don't think every developer that makes RPG's has to replicate Planescape Torment. I saw an interview in which a rep stated they are trying to get people that aren't into RPG's into them so they can make money and use that money to focus on more RPG's. I believe that to be the truth up until the "and" part. There are plent of other RPG developers out there where I can get my depth fix from. It's just that you mostly need a gaming PC to do so. Obsidian's Mask of the Betrayer and NWN 2 was better than the original (unless you were looking forward to the online portion which was dead in the water), The Wicher is often seen as a better experience than the DA games. Gothic 1,2,3 and Risen are favorites of PC RPG fans over Oblivion. There is room for main stream RPG's and also lesser known but just as in depth RPG's. The JRPG crowd has the Final Fantasy series but when you ask them what the best JRPG's are you get answers like Persona 3, or obscure titles no one has ever heard of. They're not blockbusters but they may do things better than the titles that are advertised like crazy.
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Mewi

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#27 Mewi
Member since 2006 • 386 Posts

Even though I try really hard, something like 80% of my friends list is constantly playing Black Ops... and that is FAIL to me and I don't even play it LOL

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Gibsonsg527

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#28 Gibsonsg527
Member since 2010 • 3313 Posts

They should just stop with DA.

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Shmiity

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#29 Shmiity
Member since 2006 • 6625 Posts

I hope so. Thats what I think is missing. Its become almost as shallow as fable. Thats an insult. Fable is a shallow RPG experience. I want total customization control over my characters, lots of weapons and armor. ME 2 totally sucked in that regard. Shallow.

I hope ME3 and DA 3 have hugely expanded rpg elements. Stripping it down to action level just isnt the same... I mean, its FINE, but its not blowing my mind. Its just kind of brain dead gaming.

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Evil_Saluki

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#30 Evil_Saluki
Member since 2008 • 5217 Posts

I hope we don't play as Hawk, yeah they didn't conclude the story with that character but plase biowhere, I don't care, just leave it at that I'm happy enough, now let me make my own character please?

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ZEYAAM898

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#31 ZEYAAM898
Member since 2009 • 1921 Posts

Nope they wont. Mass effect 2 was the best Bioware can do but i dont think ME3 will be able to live up to its mark.

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-DirtySanchez-

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#32 -DirtySanchez-
Member since 2003 • 32760 Posts

i wish but i doubt it, they seem to think they need to draw in non rpg fans by making a simpler game and in the process they create a game no rpg fan likes and no nonrpg fan cares about because as far as they know its an RPG brand

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JustPlainLucas

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#33 JustPlainLucas
Member since 2002 • 80441 Posts
I'm still recovering from the gut wrenching stomach upheaval I endured from playing the DA 2 demo... honestly, I've never seen such a shameless blatant disregard for one's roots as I have DA 2 from DA:O. I have no hope that DA3 will be any better, considering what Bioware is currently doing with ME3...
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Blaze787

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#34 Blaze787
Member since 2007 • 535 Posts
I'm still recovering from the gut wrenching stomach upheaval I endured from playing the DA 2 demo... honestly, I've never seen such a shameless blatant disregard for one's roots as I have DA 2 from DA:O. I have no hope that DA3 will be any better, considering what Bioware is currently doing with ME3...JustPlainLucas
I agree that DA2 was severely dumbed down and nowhere near as enjoyable as DA1. However, I also happen to think ME2 was a welcome improvement over ME1 from a gameplay standpoint. What makes you think ME3 is going to be a bad game?
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wiouds

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#35 wiouds
Member since 2004 • 6233 Posts

Nope they wont. Mass effect 2 was the best Bioware can do but i dont think ME3 will be able to live up to its mark.

ZEYAAM898

Mass Effect 2 was the worst of Bioware game made from a RPG perspective.

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ReaperXL7

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#36 ReaperXL7
Member since 2008 • 34 Posts

Honestly at this point my opinion of Bioware has reached a level of dissapointment that I just cannot begin to explain. I used to be a huge fan of Bioware and almost believed nothing they could make was capable of being bad, then ofcourse I played DA2. It just seems like such a shame that they continue to strip away large chunks of make RPGs what they are and in the process creating games that belong to other genres. Mass Effect for instance is a shooter, first and formost. It's not terrible, but few would argue that it's an incredibly deep RPG, and fewer still would argue that it's a top tier shooter.

With DA what baffles my mind is that DA1 sold very well, and yet they still decided to dumb it down further and turn into a heap of garbage compared to the first. I don't mind that they sped up the combat, thats fine but almost every other desicion they made was at a detrement to the experiance as a whole, "Wave" Combat, the fact that ultimately the bulk majority of the Major choices in the game mean exactly nothing come the end game, a borderline non existant crafting system, 4 dungeons that make up the "world" in which you play the game, the inability to equip my party with loot making almost all of it pointless, the only saving grace was that atleast some of the characters were interesting to talk to. The framed narrative was an interesting experiment but it ended up making the story feel disjointed and a mess.

Caution spoilers:

Also when my love interest is Merill through out the entirety of the game, and during my ending scene Varric says that everyone pretty much parted ways and my character went off with Isabela who had stabbed me in the back only to never return in my game, leads me to believe that the choices in the game never mattered in the first place.

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onebeelo

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#37 onebeelo
Member since 2011 • 440 Posts
no fans of mass effect or dragon age should expect anything worth spending on. bioware maes great games > ea buys bioware > bioware make me2 and da2 > nothing else needs to be said we know where this company is going. dragon age fans have a glimmer of hope i guess since da2 failed. they may opt to bring back some rpg
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ReaperXL7

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#38 ReaperXL7
Member since 2008 • 34 Posts

no fans of mass effect or dragon age should expect anything worth spending on. bioware maes great games > ea buys bioware > bioware make me2 and da2 > nothing else needs to be said we know where this company is going. dragon age fans have a glimmer of hope i guess since da2 failed. they may opt to bring back some rpgonebeelo

See I don't know if I believe in the whole big bad EA brainwashing bit in this case for the simple fact that if you look at the way EA has handled developers within the past few years they really have done a major turn around from their old days and how they used to handle devs like west wood, bullfrog, etc. Look at Visceral and Dead Space, under EA back in the day Dead Sapce would have never made it out the door, and the Sequel is even better, now they are even taking studios as partners and just publishing the games like with 38 Studios and Insomniac.

I hate to say it but I really just think that Bioware has lost touch with it's fanbase and while it's a sad thing to see, the moment a Bioware rep said they wanted the COD crowed I think we all knew in which direction they were going as a development studio.

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Elann2008

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#39 Elann2008
Member since 2007 • 33028 Posts

[QUOTE="onebeelo"]no fans of mass effect or dragon age should expect anything worth spending on. bioware maes great games > ea buys bioware > bioware make me2 and da2 > nothing else needs to be said we know where this company is going. dragon age fans have a glimmer of hope i guess since da2 failed. they may opt to bring back some rpgReaperXL7

See I don't know if I believe in the whole big bad EA brainwashing bit in this case for the simple fact that if you look at the way EA has handled developers within the past few years they really have done a major turn around from their old days and how they used to handle devs like west wood, bullfrog, etc. Look at Visceral and Dead Space, under EA back in the day Dead Sapce would have never made it out the door, and the Sequel is even better, now they are even taking studios as partners and just publishing the games like with 38 Studios and Insomniac.

I hate to say it but I really just think that Bioware has lost touch with it's fanbase and while it's a sad thing to see, the moment a Bioware rep said they wanted the COD crowed I think we all knew in which direction they were going as a development studio.

Agreed. I really like EA.. considering they publish BioWare's, Visceral Games, the upcoming Shadows of the Damned, DICE (do I need to say more?), and their games have been nothing but great to excellent. EA said they were going to change, by turning it around and making better games.. and they have, time and time again. But people will always look for something to complain about like DLC. You're not forced to purchase them. It's a business as well and people need to respect that.
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AleksandarTale

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#40 AleksandarTale
Member since 2007 • 2906 Posts

I have faith in BioWare. They said they would fix the issues that the fans didn't like and I belive that they will.

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wiouds

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#41 wiouds
Member since 2004 • 6233 Posts

It seam to be that Bioware is doing what Square Enix did when they lost the respect of many gamers.

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onebeelo

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#42 onebeelo
Member since 2011 • 440 Posts

[QUOTE="onebeelo"]no fans of mass effect or dragon age should expect anything worth spending on. bioware maes great games > ea buys bioware > bioware make me2 and da2 > nothing else needs to be said we know where this company is going. dragon age fans have a glimmer of hope i guess since da2 failed. they may opt to bring back some rpgReaperXL7

See I don't know if I believe in the whole big bad EA brainwashing bit in this case for the simple fact that if you look at the way EA has handled developers within the past few years they really have done a major turn around from their old days and how they used to handle devs like west wood, bullfrog, etc. Look at Visceral and Dead Space, under EA back in the day Dead Sapce would have never made it out the door, and the Sequel is even better, now they are even taking studios as partners and just publishing the games like with 38 Studios and Insomniac.

I hate to say it but I really just think that Bioware has lost touch with it's fanbase and while it's a sad thing to see, the moment a Bioware rep said they wanted the COD crowed I think we all knew in which direction they were going as a development studio.

this isnt about other franchises and developers. its about how they have changed bioware. like i said, ea buys bioware and theyre next games are me2 and da2. it says it all. and from previews of me3 again they are making another shooter. regardless of how ea have improved right now theyre turning bioware to garbage
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dkdk999

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#44 dkdk999
Member since 2007 • 6754 Posts

[QUOTE="dkdk999"]

They are probably not going to do another dragon age:origins. But they might make more of an rpg. Mass effect 3 will probably have more custimization than ME 2. I bet thats the same with this game.

jsh020

hate to break ti to yah but fromt he gameplay of it, they didnt, it actually looks like they took away more content if thats even freaking possible

I've seen some of the stuff on ME 3. And wow rpg elements look alot more on par with what expect from bioware. Better than the rpg elements from ME 1 I think.

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KalDurenik

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#45 KalDurenik
Member since 2004 • 3736 Posts
Sadly i dont think Bioware will be able to turn it around. They have been on a steady decline and they are removing rpg elements left and right and calling it "innovation in the rpg genre".
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xWoW_Rougex

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#46 xWoW_Rougex
Member since 2009 • 2793 Posts

Hahah that Rpg now: title is hilarious. But what game is that in the rpg then: picture?


Personally I don't care much for Bioware right now, I don't have very high expectations.

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UniverseIX

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#47 UniverseIX
Member since 2011 • 989 Posts
Should DA3 be improved? I think that's what created a lot of the problems with DA2. The idea that the game needed to be improved. Shouldn't bioware follow more closely to the design DA: Origins? I think if they had followed DA: Origins more rigidly, DA2 would have been much more well received by the public. All fans really wanted was DA: Origins, with a new story, better graphics, tons of monsters to kill, new areas to explore, and new loot. But then where do you separate the games? There is so much pressure with sequels today that they have to have new mechanics, new this, new that. Sequels used to be just a continuation of a successful product to begin with.
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SemiMaster

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#48 SemiMaster
Member since 2006 • 19011 Posts
Bioware peaked at the first Mass Effect. They can't make good games, just write stories.
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190586385885857957282413308806

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#49 190586385885857957282413308806
Member since 2002 • 13084 Posts

Bioware peaked at the Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn. They can't make good games, just write stories.SemiMaster

Fixed

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SaintForHire

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#50 SaintForHire
Member since 2011 • 67 Posts

[QUOTE="Decrate"][QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] When did 'CoD fan' become synonym of "dumb"? I am a CoD fan, are you calling me stupid? Go ahead, speak freelyBlack_Knight_00
most users on this site, even mods, agree that CoD is for casuals and the simple-minded thats as close an answer as ill give you, make what you want from it

Since when is a mod's opinion worth more than yours or mine or anyone else's? They're people like us, dude. Anyway, I don't really mind your insults, but I think someone who's calling people 'dumb' and 'simple minded' is trolling. Just because you don't like something it doesn't mean people that do are idiots

Fight! For Your Right! To Pahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh-TAYYYYY!!!