Recently I've listened to conversations about future consoles being built around the concept of, "downloadable only." The rumors floating around right now about the PSP Go!say there will be noUMD disc. The only way you can purchase games and play them are to download them using your PS3 or PC and upload them onto the new PSP or possibly download games directly through a Wi-Fi connection.
I consider myself a hardcore gamer. I currently own roughly 100 xbox 360 games along with a number of others for PS3 and Wii. I will use thefuture generationXbox for my example and question. Say the next Xbox is downloadable only to a massive built in harddrive. The 360 has had the RROD problem and mine has RROD'ed 3 times since launch day. No problem as long as Microsoft is repairing the problem. But, like consoles from my past, a new generation comes a long and I store the downloadable console in the garage for about 10 years, but I want to go pull it out of the garage and play some old games, I plug it in and it RROD's. Microsoft is no longer repairing the console.
Say over the course of the life of the console I purchased 200 games at $50 a piece, that's a $10,000 investment in games that I have now lost and can never get back. With older consoles today, if you pull one out and it quits on you, you can go on ebay and purchase one that works from someone and play your old games. Something that most likely will not be possible with a downloadable console.
Knowing this, would you want a console that was downloadable only?
Downloadable only consoles? Losing $10k in games?
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I hate the idea also,I always liked to have a case,solid copy of the game and a manuel
Knowing this, would you want a console that was downloadable only?rclaybI've always wanted to download a console :lol: Seriously, no: I dread the idea of not having a disc and a dvd case to store on my shelf. DD is the devil.
Everyone's likely going to say no.
But its going to happen. Theres entirely too many advantages for both the consumer and the producers to not go strictly download. If anything, you can always look at PC technology to see whats going to eventually happen to consoles. Consoles have ALWAYS just tried to mimic PC gaming, and guess whats happening to PC gaming? Digital download services, like Steam, are becoming immensely popular, and starting to become closer to the norm.
Considering you purposely rigged the post by displaying a negative scenario of digital distribution, let me provide you a counter scenario:
Because every game will require the internet, to atleast download the first time around, it means you are connected online. Microsoft maintains the games for you to download. They can also modify and update the games if they need to whenever people download it in the future. Microsoft could update each game individually to work on future systems. You wouldn't need to bother finding on older Xbox model for you games to play, because they've been updated to work on your newer systems.
That sounds like a definite win for me. Why have multiple old systems around to play old games when i occasionally feel like playing a certain old title, when one box can do it?
If I had unlimited redownloading privelages, I could back up games to a hard drive and the hard drive was large enough to hold many full games at once (the PS3 meets the first two conditions) I'd have no problem witha console which centered around downloadable games. Both pirates and retailers who push used games (every time I go to Gamestop employees try to talk me into buying used games over new and now everybody else is following their example) are eating into the profits of companies involved in game development.
Looking at the pricing of games on Steam, PSN and XBL (lots of special deals, special bundles, etc) consumers as well as developers could benefit from a move away from retail.
Everyone's likely going to say no.
But its going to happen. Theres entirely too many advantages for both the consumer and the producers to not go strictly download. If anything, you can always look at PC technology to see whats going to eventually happen to consoles. Consoles have ALWAYS just tried to mimic PC gaming, and guess whats happening to PC gaming? Digital download services, like Steam, are becoming immensely popular, and starting to become closer to the norm.
Considering you purposely rigged the post by displaying a negative scenario of digital distribution, let me provide you a counter scenario:
Because every game will require the internet, to atleast download the first time around, it means you are connected online. Microsoft maintains the games for you to download. They can also modify and update the games if they need to whenever people download it in the future. Microsoft could update each game individually to work on future systems. You wouldn't need to bother finding on older Xbox model for you games to play, because they've been updated to work on your newer systems.
That sounds like a definite win for me. Why have multiple old systems around to play old games when i occasionally feel like playing a certain old title, when one box can do it?
XaosII
OK, what happens if Microsoft goes out of business or gets shut down or something? Or, what if Microsoft doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and instead makes developers handle all that stuff you just mentioned and those developers/publishers go out of business? IMO there are nowhere near the amount of upsides for the consumer when it comes to digital distribution for videogames and movies as there is for music.
As it stands right now I can't even watch or play all the stuff I downloaded off Xbox Live unless I'm connected, which can't happen all the time, and when I got my Xbox back from getting repaired I had to download everything I purchased over again. I'm sorry, but that is way too much of a hassle.
And if the PSP Go is WiFi only, then that is the stupidest idea ever. What happens if you live in an area that doesn't have WiFi, like me? And I don't live in the boondocks either. If that was the case I wouldn't be able to buy the new PSP, which isn't a good thing for a company that is getting dominated in both the home and portable markets.
OK, what happens if Microsoft goes out of business or gets shut down or something? Or, what if Microsoft doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and instead makes developers handle all that stuff you just mentioned and those developers/publishers go out of business? IMO there are nowhere near the amount of upsides for the consumer when it comes to digital distribution for videogames and movies as there is for music.
As it stands right now I can't even watch or play all the stuff I downloaded off Xbox Live unless I'm connected, which can't happen all the time, and when I got my Xbox back from getting repaired I had to download everything I purchased over again. I'm sorry, but that is way too much of a hassle.
And if the PSP Go is WiFi only, then that is the stupidest idea ever. What happens if you live in an area that doesn't have WiFi, like me? And I don't live in the boondocks either. If that was the case I wouldn't be able to buy the new PSP, which isn't a good thing for a company that is getting dominated in both the home and portable markets.
Gamefan1986
Alright, so what happens if Microsoft gets a larger foothold in entertainment and can provide movies, music, and games that work across anything running a Windows based OS? Or, what if Microsoft gets a dedicated "legacy team" to provide backwards compatibility to many more games? What if they even start to support PC only games on future Xboxes?
Opinion or not, its just a simple fact that digital distribution is better overall. Whether you like it or not, is entirely different.
I doubt that future PSP will be Wifi only. There will likely be a wired connector of some kind, but even if it Wifi only, i'm not understanding what you mean by not living in an area with Wifi...... Get a wireless/wired router then, and now you have Wifi. You dont have to go around looking for a Wifi point or nything. Make your own.
i'd have no problem downloading games, as long as I could make a backup copy on a disc. However, for reasons already stated, if you can't make a disc from the info, it's not a good investment imo.
No way am I spending $50 to download a game with no hard copy. I mean, I'm sure all of us in here download music for our laptops or mp3 players one way or another and we pay for that. But we don't say anything cuz we can always burn a disc. That's all I'm saying. A games not too portable if it's only in the HD of the console.
[QUOTE="Gamefan1986"]
OK, what happens if Microsoft goes out of business or gets shut down or something? Or, what if Microsoft doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and instead makes developers handle all that stuff you just mentioned and those developers/publishers go out of business? IMO there are nowhere near the amount of upsides for the consumer when it comes to digital distribution for videogames and movies as there is for music.
As it stands right now I can't even watch or play all the stuff I downloaded off Xbox Live unless I'm connected, which can't happen all the time, and when I got my Xbox back from getting repaired I had to download everything I purchased over again. I'm sorry, but that is way too much of a hassle.
And if the PSP Go is WiFi only, then that is the stupidest idea ever. What happens if you live in an area that doesn't have WiFi, like me? And I don't live in the boondocks either. If that was the case I wouldn't be able to buy the new PSP, which isn't a good thing for a company that is getting dominated in both the home and portable markets.
XaosII
Alright, so what happens if Microsoft gets a larger foothold in entertainment and can provide movies, music, and games that work across anything running a Windows based OS? Or, what if Microsoft gets a dedicated "legacy team" to provide backwards compatibility to many more games? What if they even start to support PC only games on future Xboxes?
Opinion or not, its just a simple fact that digital distribution is better overall. Whether you like it or not, is entirely different.
I doubt that future PSP will be Wifi only. There will likely be a wired connector of some kind, but even if it Wifi only, i'm not understanding what you mean by not living in an area with Wifi...... Get a wireless/wired router then, and now you have Wifi. You dont have to go around looking for a Wifi point or nything. Make your own.
Well we can all think of positive and negative scenarios until we are blue in the face, but bottom line is to me Digital Distribution is not a good option for movies and games like it is for music mainly because I do not trust a company to make equipment that can hold every single piece of entertainment that I own durable enough that it won't break. Because until internet speeds get to the point where I can download TBs worth of data in a few minutes then it will really get me POed to redownload everything I've ever bought. On the other hand, I have never had a disc not work unless it has been scratched a lot, which is preventable.
As for the PSP thing, I could do that, but that would require money that I don't have at the moment, and it would also defeat the purpose of a portable if I'm using most of its functions at home.
Thank you for the intelligent responses. My biggest concern would be the idea of losing a couple hundred games that I purchased and only being able to get those games again by purchasing them all over again. I hate the idea of paying double for something that I never should have had to in the first place. I feel if we get to a console future where everything is download only, that possibility becomes much more realistic.
Now see, if the company is smart, you'll have content codes tied to your account that will let you download your content again. But don't expect that to happen, though. :PThank you for the intelligent responses. My biggest concern would be the idea of losing a couple hundred games that I purchased and only being able to get those games again by purchasing them all over again. I hate the idea of paying double for something that I never should have had to in the first place. I feel if we get to a console future where everything is download only, that possibility becomes much more realistic.
rclayb
I do NOT want a downloadable only console. I love being able to actually hold the game. JustPlainLucasYou're not. You're holding the case for a disc that contains a bunch of bumps on it interpreted as meaningful data by a machine. It's not a notion to be attached to, IMO. A hundred years from now, the learned behavior of gamers then will be the satisfaction of holding all of your games on a single gaming device, and they would think it unimaginable, even offensive, for their titles to be broken up and put into different individual discs. Too inconvenient! Where's that feeling of holding all of your titles when you grab your system? I'm about the games. If they can reduce the amount of time it takes to switch between them, the way downloadable only would, I'm for it, because it makes gaming itself slightly better.
[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]I do NOT want a downloadable only console. I love being able to actually hold the game. Oilers99You're not. You're holding the case for a disc that contains a bunch of bumps on it interpreted as meaningful data by a machine. It's not a notion to be attached to, IMO. A hundred years from now, the learned behavior of gamers then will be the satisfaction of holding all of your games on a single gaming device, and they would think it unimaginable, even offensive, for their titles to be broken up and put into different individual discs. Too inconvenient! Where's that feeling of holding all of your titles when you grab your system? I'm about the games. If they can reduce the amount of time it takes to switch between them, the way downloadable only would, I'm for it, because it makes gaming itself slightly better.
yeah because it takes forever to change a disc,just last week i had to battle through a swamp,slay a dragon from the realm of eternal dark,summon a fat chocobo,save him from bandits,get my disc from the chocobo and then battle my console to take the disc out to replace with disc 2.On the bright side i did gain 459exp
[QUOTE="Gamefan1986"]
OK, what happens if Microsoft goes out of business or gets shut down or something? Or, what if Microsoft doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and instead makes developers handle all that stuff you just mentioned and those developers/publishers go out of business? IMO there are nowhere near the amount of upsides for the consumer when it comes to digital distribution for videogames and movies as there is for music.
As it stands right now I can't even watch or play all the stuff I downloaded off Xbox Live unless I'm connected, which can't happen all the time, and when I got my Xbox back from getting repaired I had to download everything I purchased over again. I'm sorry, but that is way too much of a hassle.
And if the PSP Go is WiFi only, then that is the stupidest idea ever. What happens if you live in an area that doesn't have WiFi, like me? And I don't live in the boondocks either. If that was the case I wouldn't be able to buy the new PSP, which isn't a good thing for a company that is getting dominated in both the home and portable markets.
XaosII
Alright, so what happens if Microsoft gets a larger foothold in entertainment and can provide movies, music, and games that work across anything running a Windows based OS? Or, what if Microsoft gets a dedicated "legacy team" to provide backwards compatibility to many more games? What if they even start to support PC only games on future Xboxes?
Opinion or not, its just a simple fact that digital distribution is better overall. Whether you like it or not, is entirely different.
As much as you'd like to believe your opinion is fact, it's not. Furthermore, your argument in support of DD is a pure pipe-dream. There's absolutely no incentive for ANY console producer to ensure backwards compatibility. If there was, Microsoft would've achieved perfect emulation for Xbox games and Sony wouldn't have actually removed their BC. To be clear, if this was likely to happen, we'd already be seeing companies provide this kind of support and we're clearly not. DD would be an absolute nightmare for consoles. I understand why DD has a place on PC (it's upgradable and an open platform). But to suggest that it's somehow possible to replicate on consoles is easily foolish. I would argue that, at least for a console, going to a digital model would be almost purely negative for the consumer. And sorry, we're consumers here- I don't care about developers and publishers. The good news for all of us is, I doubt that day will come any time soon. MP3s haven't killed the CD and digital distribution hasn't even come close to killing the retail copy on PC. I don't mind console producers/ digital distribution platforms on PC appearing to offer the consumer more choice- that's a great thing for us. But I'd never want to see any platform go DD only for $60 games. I know I'd pretty much stop buying all but the best games and only at deep discounts.[QUOTE="XaosII"][QUOTE="Gamefan1986"]
OK, what happens if Microsoft goes out of business or gets shut down or something? Or, what if Microsoft doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and instead makes developers handle all that stuff you just mentioned and those developers/publishers go out of business? IMO there are nowhere near the amount of upsides for the consumer when it comes to digital distribution for videogames and movies as there is for music.
As it stands right now I can't even watch or play all the stuff I downloaded off Xbox Live unless I'm connected, which can't happen all the time, and when I got my Xbox back from getting repaired I had to download everything I purchased over again. I'm sorry, but that is way too much of a hassle.
And if the PSP Go is WiFi only, then that is the stupidest idea ever. What happens if you live in an area that doesn't have WiFi, like me? And I don't live in the boondocks either. If that was the case I wouldn't be able to buy the new PSP, which isn't a good thing for a company that is getting dominated in both the home and portable markets.
LongZhiZi
Alright, so what happens if Microsoft gets a larger foothold in entertainment and can provide movies, music, and games that work across anything running a Windows based OS? Or, what if Microsoft gets a dedicated "legacy team" to provide backwards compatibility to many more games? What if they even start to support PC only games on future Xboxes?
Opinion or not, its just a simple fact that digital distribution is better overall. Whether you like it or not, is entirely different.
As much as you'd like to believe your opinion is fact, it's not. Furthermore, your argument in support of DD is a pure pipe-dream. There's absolutely no incentive for ANY console producer to ensure backwards compatibility. If there was, Microsoft would've achieved perfect emulation for Xbox games and Sony wouldn't have actually removed their BC. To be clear, if this was likely to happen, we'd already be seeing companies provide this kind of support and we're clearly not. DD would be an absolute nightmare for consoles. I understand why DD has a place on PC (it's upgradable and an open platform). But to suggest that it's somehow possible to replicate on consoles is easily foolish. I would argue that, at least for a console, going to a digital model would be almost purely negative for the consumer. And sorry, we're consumers here- I don't care about developers and publishers. The good news for all of us is, I doubt that day will come any time soon. MP3s haven't killed the CD and digital distribution hasn't even come close to killing the retail copy on PC. I don't mind console producers/ digital distribution platforms on PC appearing to offer the consumer more choice- that's a great thing for us. But I'd never want to see any platform go DD only for $60 games. I know I'd pretty much stop buying all but the best games and only at deep discounts.There's lots of incentive. MS didn't plan for B/C and the change in gpu providers made the B/C route tough (remember they used to announce 20 or so B/C game every 6 months or so). Sony did plan for B/C (the PS2 had perfect compatibility with the PS1, early PS3s had perfect compatibility with the PS1 and the PS2) but to Sony's shock, consumers were unenthusiastic about a $600 pricetag, so Sony had to start looking for things to cut. In short B/C benefits companies because it helps foster consumer loyalty (it gives people with old system reasons to buy your new system) but the stars weren't in alignment for Sony or MS this gen.
People complaining about the risks kind of lose me. With the game's presence on external hard drives, the original server and the system itself, only a series of unfortunate events could cause one to lose a game forever. Whereas with physical collections, one fire or burglary (or whatever) and you kiss your collection goodbye forever.
If you are fixated on cases and instruction manuals as opposed to games, that's a personal problem. Since 99% of games have tutorials and/or in-game control maps, its been years since I've opened an instruction manual. And I'm not a big fan of the special edition/metal box thing. I own a couple, but I've found that at the end of the day, its the quality of the game that will either keep me coming back or move me to get rid of the game.
Last but not least, I don't see how a gamer couldprofess not to care about developers and publishers. Its like a wine aficianando saying he doesn't care about grapes. Its not an impossible position (if it was, there would be no pirates) just a strange one.
I doubt physical media will completely go away anytime in the near future but its days are numbered.
Again, where's the financial incentive to provide backwards compatibility? While MS did attempt to start providing BC, there's a reason they stopped- it didn't matter. If droves of gamers were demanding full BC, Microsoft would still be releasing updates. But they're not because it's not like anyone's waiting on the sidelines for GUNVALKYRIE to be playable on a 360. Sony cut theirs due to the cost of their system, but again, if it was in such high demand, it wouldn't have gotten the axe. The risk of losing your entire game collection is lost on you? Now, I know you suggested a house burning down, but that was either a freak accident or you did something stupid (or I suppose arson). All of those are extreme and unfortunate. However, you can lose your entire game collection simply because ToS changes. I always point this out when talking about Steam- if you don't agree with Valve's policies every day for the rest of Steam's existence, you have no access to your games. So yeah, pardon me for thinking one would have to be totally nuts to spend thousands of dollars in games that can be taken away on a whim. Accidents happen and that sucks when you lose your stuff by that....but the ToS is not an accident. And yeah, I don't care about developers and publishers. It's pretty simple; we engage in a business transaction. Sega isn't my best friend nor am I dating EA. Those companies seek to nickel and dime you for everything you're worth. Therefore, I should do everything within my power (legally) to get the most out of them. You don't really believe DD is for the consumers, do you? I'm not saying there are no benefits to consumers, but the major benefits are solely for the publisher. They want to destroy the second-hand market, despite the fact that all other mediums have such a market and thrive perfectly fine. Gamestop does some pretty low things, but again, this hurts you and I. Buy a game out of hype and it turned out to be a dud to you? With the physical copy, hop on ebay and get maybe $30 back. For the DD? Deal with the $50+ you'll never see again. And don't even get me started on how bad pricing would be if a console went DD only. A theoretical DD-only PC platform could work because it's open, so the competition between sellers remains. There's Steam, Impulse, D2D, Gamersgate, Gamestop.com, and I'm sure more would pop up in such a scenario (and for now we still have retailers). But for a console? Once you've bought that platform, you are locked into Sony/MS/Nintendo's pricing no matter how ridiculous it is.There's lots of incentive. MS didn't plan for B/C and the change in gpu providers made the B/C route tough (remember they used to announce 20 or so B/C game every 6 months or so). Sony did plan for B/C (the PS2 had perfect compatibility with the PS1, early PS3s had perfect compatibility with the PS1 and the PS2) but to Sony's shock, consumers were unenthusiastic about a $600 pricetag, so Sony had to start looking for things to cut. In short B/C benefits companies because it helps foster consumer loyalty (it gives people with old system reasons to buy your new system) but the stars weren't in alignment for Sony or MS this gen.
People complaining about the risks kind of lose me. With the game's presence on external hard drives, the original server and the system itself, only a series of unfortunate events could cause one to lose a game forever. Whereas with physical collections, one fire or burglary (or whatever) and you kiss your collection goodbye forever.
If you are fixated on cases and instruction manuals as opposed to games, that's a personal problem. Since 99% of games have tutorials and/or in-game control maps, its been years since I've opened an instruction manual. And I'm not a big fan of the special edition/metal box thing. I own a couple, but I've found that at the end of the day, its the quality of the game that will either keep me coming back or move me to get rid of the game.
Last but not least, I don't see how a gamer couldprofess not to care about developers and publishers. Its like a wine aficianando saying he doesn't care about grapes. Its not an impossible position (if it was, there would be no pirates) just a strange one.
I doubt physical media will completely go away anytime in the near future but its days are numbered.
CarnageHeart
You're not. You're holding the case for a disc that contains a bunch of bumps on it interpreted as meaningful data by a machine. It's not a notion to be attached to, IMO. A hundred years from now, the learned behavior of gamers then will be the satisfaction of holding all of your games on a single gaming device, and they would think it unimaginable, even offensive, for their titles to be broken up and put into different individual discs. Too inconvenient! Where's that feeling of holding all of your titles when you grab your system? I'm about the games. If they can reduce the amount of time it takes to switch between them, the way downloadable only would, I'm for it, because it makes gaming itself slightly better.Oilers99Well, I guess I can kinda see your point. I do, however, have my entire music collection on my iPod, but I've still kept my CDs. I also still enjoy that little ritual of bringing home a plastic case, unwrapping plastic of that case, and removing plast out of that case, but I suppose that sentimentality amongst gamers will dissipate in the next century. I will say this, though. The biggest negative drawback is that you'll to take your entire console over to a friend's house to play a game there. What if he wants to borrow just one game? He'll have to use your system for as long as he's done with that just one game.
[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]Again, where's the financial incentive to provide backwards compatibility? While MS did attempt to start providing BC, there's a reason they stopped- it didn't matter. If droves of gamers were demanding full BC, Microsoft would still be releasing updates. But they're not because it's not like anyone's waiting on the sidelines for GUNVALKYRIE to be playable on a 360. Sony cut theirs due to the cost of their system, but again, if it was in such high demand, it wouldn't have gotten the axe. The risk of losing your entire game collection is lost on you? Now, I know you suggested a house burning down, but that was either a freak accident or you did something stupid (or I suppose arson). All of those are extreme and unfortunate. However, you can lose your entire game collection simply because ToS changes. I always point this out when talking about Steam- if you don't agree with Valve's policies every day for the rest of Steam's existence, you have no access to your games. So yeah, pardon me for thinking one would have to be totally nuts to spend thousands of dollars in games that can be taken away on a whim. Accidents happen and that sucks when you lose your stuff by that....but the ToS is not an accident. And yeah, I don't care about developers and publishers. It's pretty simple; we engage in a business transaction. Sega isn't my best friend nor am I dating EA. Those companies seek to nickel and dime you for everything you're worth. Therefore, I should do everything within my power (legally) to get the most out of them. You don't really believe DD is for the consumers, do you? I'm not saying there are no benefits to consumers, but the major benefits are solely for the publisher. They want to destroy the second-hand market, despite the fact that all other mediums have such a market and thrive perfectly fine. Gamestop does some pretty low things, but again, this hurts you and I. Buy a game out of hype and it turned out to be a dud to you? With the physical copy, hop on ebay and get maybe $30 back. For the DD? Deal with the $50+ you'll never see again. And don't even get me started on how bad pricing would be if a console went DD only. A theoretical DD-only PC platform could work because it's open, so the competition between sellers remains. There's Steam, Impulse, D2D, Gamersgate, Gamestop.com, and I'm sure more would pop up in such a scenario (and for now we still have retailers). But for a console? Once you've bought that platform, you are locked into Sony/MS/Nintendo's pricing no matter how ridiculous it is.There's lots of incentive. MS didn't plan for B/C and the change in gpu providers made the B/C route tough (remember they used to announce 20 or so B/C game every 6 months or so). Sony did plan for B/C (the PS2 had perfect compatibility with the PS1, early PS3s had perfect compatibility with the PS1 and the PS2) but to Sony's shock, consumers were unenthusiastic about a $600 pricetag, so Sony had to start looking for things to cut. In short B/C benefits companies because it helps foster consumer loyalty (it gives people with old system reasons to buy your new system) but the stars weren't in alignment for Sony or MS this gen.
People complaining about the risks kind of lose me. With the game's presence on external hard drives, the original server and the system itself, only a series of unfortunate events could cause one to lose a game forever. Whereas with physical collections, one fire or burglary (or whatever) and you kiss your collection goodbye forever.
If you are fixated on cases and instruction manuals as opposed to games, that's a personal problem. Since 99% of games have tutorials and/or in-game control maps, its been years since I've opened an instruction manual. And I'm not a big fan of the special edition/metal box thing. I own a couple, but I've found that at the end of the day, its the quality of the game that will either keep me coming back or move me to get rid of the game.
Last but not least, I don't see how a gamer couldprofess not to care about developers and publishers. Its like a wine aficianando saying he doesn't care about grapes. Its not an impossible position (if it was, there would be no pirates) just a strange one.
I doubt physical media will completely go away anytime in the near future but its days are numbered.
LongZhiZi
There's demand for B/C but there's also the matter of cost. If Sony and MS plan better in the future (according to OXM, MS was ambivalent about B/C until the 11th hour, so its no wonder it was patchwork and of course Sony's assumption that people would be willing to pay more than twice what the majority of them had paid in the past was equally problematic) B/C for the PS4 and X720 should be a lot smoother.
Also, don't get confused, I sketched out worst case scenarios, not past experiences.
If pricing is lower (with the middleman cut out, why wouldn't it be?) and/or more flexible for DD games than games at retail, consumers will benefit.
If you make a lot of impulse buys, I can see how you'd be deeply opposed to DD, but $60 is will outside what I spend on impulse. Before I buy a game I've played the demo, read user impressions (which I tend to find more useful than reviews) and have watched lots of gameplay footage. So I've never picked up, say Lair quality garbage which I've tried to return the next day. But if you buy games because they are based on your favorite movie or something, I understand your opposition to DD.
Your claims about pricing don't even rise to the level of nonsense since there isn't price competition among physical retailers. Whether one buys at Wal-Mart or Gamestop, they are all selling new games for the same price.
Speaking of Wal Mart, supporting second hand games is fine and good, but once again, you part ways with reality when you talk about how the secondary market for games is the same secondary market every other product faces. Wal-Mart (the nation's largest retailer) sells used games, but not used music or movies (or anything else).
Also, the only reason I have a use for Gamestop is they tend to stock games the day after release and they stock obscure games. If DD became a reality, I no longer have a use for them, and wouldn't have to listen to a clerk try to push used games onto me every time I make a purchase or even better, explain why purportedly new games aren't in the box and are damaged.
#1 For the xbox and every other digital distribution system that i've ever seen, your games are tied to your account, not the console. At worst, you have to redownload all of your games again... for free.
Digital Distribution is the future. The people who knock it usually have a false impression (like this guy saying you can't redownload stuff). There are no cons in it for people like me. Zero replacement fee for games, cheaper priced games, and I can still play all of my games like normal. Alot of people are like, "Buh buh I won't have a box to stare at cuz I like staring at boxes rather than playing the games inside the box" will complain. People like that will probably end up getting screwed over and buying a physical collector's edition for some crazily exorbitant price just so they can have a manual that's severely lacking (like 99% of modern console games) and a box to put on a shelf.
I can't wait for digital. I can have every game on the system. Never again will I have to get up and change a disc. I'll just press a button and instantly be able to access every game in my collection, likely spanning multiple generations. Never again will I walk over to my stack of games and open up and empty case like, "where the hell did I put this game?". Losing a disc, having a game stolen (whether it's cuz they borrowed it and you forget about it or legitimate theft), scratching a disc... all of that is gone.
OK, what happens if Microsoft goes out of business or gets shut down or something? Or, what if Microsoft doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and instead makes developers handle all that stuff you just mentioned and those developers/publishers go out of business? IMO there are nowhere near the amount of upsides for the consumer when it comes to digital distribution for videogames and movies as there is for music.
As it stands right now I can't even watch or play all the stuff I downloaded off Xbox Live unless I'm connected, which can't happen all the time, and when I got my Xbox back from getting repaired I had to download everything I purchased over again. I'm sorry, but that is way too much of a hassle.
And if the PSP Go is WiFi only, then that is the stupidest idea ever. What happens if you live in an area that doesn't have WiFi, like me? And I don't live in the boondocks either. If that was the case I wouldn't be able to buy the new PSP, which isn't a good thing for a company that is getting dominated in both the home and portable markets.
Gamefan1986
#1 Your first paragraph is fantasy stuff. Can you honestly see MS going out of business anytime soon? What if MS doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and makes developers handle... wtf? LOL, Developers already pay to develop their games. You make it sound like When EA makes a harry Potter game, MS is paying for the Harry Potter license on behalf of EA. The licensing fee to make games for MS system is sold BY MS to other companies. They aren't spending money, it's income. Also, if developers can't afford to make games, they're gonna die whether it's digital distribution or physical distribution. If MS went out of business, i'm sure there'd be a solution for people, much like how Steam is setup Plus, MS isn't gonna go out of business anytime soon so this really isn't a worry for the forseeable future.
Your complaint about having to be connected to the internet seems minor to me. We're talking about the future here. Do you really think that internet speed and access to the internet will decrease as time goes on? Every day more and more people are getting access to high speed internet, not the opposite. Even for today, yeah you have to be connected to the net... lol, but if you're buying XBLA games obviously you already have the internet and this isn't an issue for you.
Physical media is dying. It's on it's way out. The biggest platform in the world, the PC, is primarily digital distribution. Physical CD sales have been dropping and internet ones rising basically every year since MP3s were sold online. You cannot fight the future. Punch and kick all you want, those seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years are still gonna go flying by.
Consider something else. If you had an online account, and downloaded a ton of games, the company could keep track of what games you've purchased. If you lost your console for whatever reason or your hard drive spontaneously combusted, the company could let you just re-download the game. They would know you've already paid for it. They could be tied to your account.
I think it will be quite a while before we see download only consoles. I'm sure it will happen eventually, but that won't be until internet speeds increase and connections become more dependable on a larger scale. There's still too many areas, in just the U.S. alone, where poor internet connection quality kills the feasibility of this happening anytime soon.
There is definitely pros and cons to this scenario (just like everything else in life), but whether we like it or not, it will happen. It makes too much sense from a business perspective to not have this happen. Whether it takes shape in form of the current model for XBLA games, whereby you spend your points, download the game, and it's yours to keep (even though you may have to hassle with transferring licenses and such if your system goes belly-up); or it follows the model that Microsoft uses for the Zune Pass program, where you pay a monthly subscription fee and have access to those games only while your subscription is current. No subscription, no games. Then again, it may be something totally different.
Also, it's not uncommon to hear the occasional gripe about how the secondary market is hurting software sales, so something like this would kick that option to the curb. No doubt software companies lose money if I don't buy directly from them, but I don't think the secondary market is causing any companies to go out of business. I could be wrong, though. The question is, why do software companies make a big deal of this when you don't seem to hear this complaint in any other retail industry? I buy and sell used books, CDs, boardgames, etc. all the time, and obviously the authors, artists, and designers aren't getting any cash or royalties from me, but I personally haven't heard much, if any, complaint from those areas of the retail market.
It seems that when it comes to software, especially with EULAs and TOSs, we are not buying the software, we're just renting it. All those agreements basically give us the right to use the product, and they do not give us ownership of the product we paid for. It wasn't always that way. In the early days of computer software, you bought it and owned it. I don't recall having to deal with any EULA. Over time, little steps have gotten us to where we are now, and eventually we will only have the rights to our software as long as we keep the money flowing to whomever holds the subscription service.
My biggest gripe with a download only console is the necessity to be connected to the internet at all times. If I can download my game and play whether I'm connected or not, then I'm okay with it. I already own quite a few XBLA games which obviously aren't taking up any shelf space in my apartment, so this is okay with me. What I don't own too many of are the Community Games that are offered through the XBOX LIVE Marketplace. Why? Because I can't play those games unless I'm connected to the LIVE servers. The connection in my area is pretty damn good, but I haven't found the justification for networking my 360 and PC together when I live by myself. Generally, I'm either on my PC or the 360, not both. Because of that, I have to occasionally swap cables from my modem, depending on which machine I want to use at the time. That means there are many times when I'm disconnected from LIVE while playing my 360. I really dislike having to connect to LIVE just to play a local game.
I'm one who likes to see all my games sitting on my shelf, and I've bought a few collector's editions here and there, but as was already mentioned, if a fire or theft occurs in my apartment, I'm SOL. Chances are they would take my 360 anyway, but if I bought a replacement console, and there was a process in place where I could prove to the software vendor that I had previously purchased the game, so all I had to do was download it to the new console, then it would most definitely benefit me. Maybe collector's editions could give me exclusive content instead of a fancy box.
Okay, this post got quite lengthy so I'll call it quits for now. I might just have to chime in a little later though.
It's the future people.
A) Its much cheaper and easier to make a game then distribute it over the internet. Once you add production costs, transportation, advertisement, etc., the price of the disc multiplies and this is why they are so expensive right now. The companies pass the cost on to the consumer.
B) Yes, I enjoy seeing what I buy, but I also like the idea of having all of it right at my fingers with a press of a button. Imagine if the MP3 or the iPod hadn't taken off like they had? How annoying is it to haul around CD's and such when you can just press a button to play a song.
C) They are already taking steps to eliminate physical media. Why do you think music stores like Sam Goody and other properties are shutting down or stopping completely? Because consumers don't like the idea of buying a CD for 20$ when they can go online and get it for half that price.
D) Yes, certain countries have caps on downloads and such. I'm sorry to say it however, they don't make up the majority of people who buy games. The countries that make up the biggest markets have the technology and internet speed to do this. Eventually countries will get to the point where internet isn't a problem anymore, and DL games will really make their debut then.
I still very much prefer to have the physical copies of my game as a seperate disk or cartridge. I don't mind having digital distribution available as an option but I don't think I'd care for it as being the only means to get a game for the many reasons already pointed out in this thread. It certainly comes in handy for those games you can't find for sale anymore in stores.
#1 For the xbox and every other digital distribution system that i've ever seen, your games are tied to your account, not the console. At worst, you have to redownload all of your games again... for free.
Digital Distribution is the future. The people who knock it usually have a false impression (like this guy saying you can't redownload stuff). There are no cons in it for people like me. Zero replacement fee for games, cheaper priced games, and I can still play all of my games like normal. Alot of people are like, "Buh buh I won't have a box to stare at cuz I like staring at boxes rather than playing the games inside the box" will complain. People like that will probably end up getting screwed over and buying a physical collector's edition for some crazily exorbitant price just so they can have a manual that's severely lacking (like 99% of modern console games) and a box to put on a shelf.
I can't wait for digital. I can have every game on the system. Never again will I have to get up and change a disc. I'll just press a button and instantly be able to access every game in my collection, likely spanning multiple generations. Never again will I walk over to my stack of games and open up and empty case like, "where the hell did I put this game?". Losing a disc, having a game stolen (whether it's cuz they borrowed it and you forget about it or legitimate theft), scratching a disc... all of that is gone.
[QUOTE="Gamefan1986"]
OK, what happens if Microsoft goes out of business or gets shut down or something? Or, what if Microsoft doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and instead makes developers handle all that stuff you just mentioned and those developers/publishers go out of business? IMO there are nowhere near the amount of upsides for the consumer when it comes to digital distribution for videogames and movies as there is for music.
As it stands right now I can't even watch or play all the stuff I downloaded off Xbox Live unless I'm connected, which can't happen all the time, and when I got my Xbox back from getting repaired I had to download everything I purchased over again. I'm sorry, but that is way too much of a hassle.
And if the PSP Go is WiFi only, then that is the stupidest idea ever. What happens if you live in an area that doesn't have WiFi, like me? And I don't live in the boondocks either. If that was the case I wouldn't be able to buy the new PSP, which isn't a good thing for a company that is getting dominated in both the home and portable markets.
Senor_Kami
#1 Your first paragraph is fantasy stuff. Can you honestly see MS going out of business anytime soon? What if MS doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and makes developers handle... wtf? LOL, Developers already pay to develop their games. You make it sound like When EA makes a harry Potter game, MS is paying for the Harry Potter license on behalf of EA. The licensing fee to make games for MS system is sold BY MS to other companies. They aren't spending money, it's income. Also, if developers can't afford to make games, they're gonna die whether it's digital distribution or physical distribution. If MS went out of business, i'm sure there'd be a solution for people, much like how Steam is setup Plus, MS isn't gonna go out of business anytime soon so this really isn't a worry for the forseeable future.
Your complaint about having to be connected to the internet seems minor to me. We're talking about the future here. Do you really think that internet speed and access to the internet will decrease as time goes on? Every day more and more people are getting access to high speed internet, not the opposite. Even for today, yeah you have to be connected to the net... lol, but if you're buying XBLA games obviously you already have the internet and this isn't an issue for you.
Physical media is dying. It's on it's way out. The biggest platform in the world, the PC, is primarily digital distribution. Physical CD sales have been dropping and internet ones rising basically every year since MP3s were sold online. You cannot fight the future. Punch and kick all you want, those seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years are still gonna go flying by.
OK...you seem to have completely missed the point of what I was saying. I didn't say it was even likely that MS would go out of business...I said IF they did...you would be screwed, and if MS didn't WANT to hold every single game from every developer on their servers, then the developers would need their own.
Think of it this way...Say we had DD only right now, and you were a huge Mortal Kombat fan...Midway is just about gone, so you would not be able to play any MK game for the rest of your life....that's all I was trying to say, and either way both sides of the argument are just speculating right now.
Oh and whoever actually believes that prices will be lower just because everything is DD only are nuts...we would probably end up being thankful that they don't raise the prices.
[QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]
#1 For the xbox and every other digital distribution system that i've ever seen, your games are tied to your account, not the console. At worst, you have to redownload all of your games again... for free.
Digital Distribution is the future. The people who knock it usually have a false impression (like this guy saying you can't redownload stuff). There are no cons in it for people like me. Zero replacement fee for games, cheaper priced games, and I can still play all of my games like normal. Alot of people are like, "Buh buh I won't have a box to stare at cuz I like staring at boxes rather than playing the games inside the box" will complain. People like that will probably end up getting screwed over and buying a physical collector's edition for some crazily exorbitant price just so they can have a manual that's severely lacking (like 99% of modern console games) and a box to put on a shelf.
I can't wait for digital. I can have every game on the system. Never again will I have to get up and change a disc. I'll just press a button and instantly be able to access every game in my collection, likely spanning multiple generations. Never again will I walk over to my stack of games and open up and empty case like, "where the hell did I put this game?". Losing a disc, having a game stolen (whether it's cuz they borrowed it and you forget about it or legitimate theft), scratching a disc... all of that is gone.
[QUOTE="Gamefan1986"]
OK, what happens if Microsoft goes out of business or gets shut down or something? Or, what if Microsoft doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and instead makes developers handle all that stuff you just mentioned and those developers/publishers go out of business? IMO there are nowhere near the amount of upsides for the consumer when it comes to digital distribution for videogames and movies as there is for music.
As it stands right now I can't even watch or play all the stuff I downloaded off Xbox Live unless I'm connected, which can't happen all the time, and when I got my Xbox back from getting repaired I had to download everything I purchased over again. I'm sorry, but that is way too much of a hassle.
And if the PSP Go is WiFi only, then that is the stupidest idea ever. What happens if you live in an area that doesn't have WiFi, like me? And I don't live in the boondocks either. If that was the case I wouldn't be able to buy the new PSP, which isn't a good thing for a company that is getting dominated in both the home and portable markets.
Gamefan1986
#1 Your first paragraph is fantasy stuff. Can you honestly see MS going out of business anytime soon? What if MS doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and makes developers handle... wtf? LOL, Developers already pay to develop their games. You make it sound like When EA makes a harry Potter game, MS is paying for the Harry Potter license on behalf of EA. The licensing fee to make games for MS system is sold BY MS to other companies. They aren't spending money, it's income. Also, if developers can't afford to make games, they're gonna die whether it's digital distribution or physical distribution. If MS went out of business, i'm sure there'd be a solution for people, much like how Steam is setup Plus, MS isn't gonna go out of business anytime soon so this really isn't a worry for the forseeable future.
Your complaint about having to be connected to the internet seems minor to me. We're talking about the future here. Do you really think that internet speed and access to the internet will decrease as time goes on? Every day more and more people are getting access to high speed internet, not the opposite. Even for today, yeah you have to be connected to the net... lol, but if you're buying XBLA games obviously you already have the internet and this isn't an issue for you.
Physical media is dying. It's on it's way out. The biggest platform in the world, the PC, is primarily digital distribution. Physical CD sales have been dropping and internet ones rising basically every year since MP3s were sold online. You cannot fight the future. Punch and kick all you want, those seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years are still gonna go flying by.
OK...you seem to have completely missed the point of what I was saying. I didn't say it was even likely that MS would go out of business...I said IF they did...you would be screwed, and if MS didn't WANT to hold every single game from every developer on their servers, then the developers would need their own.
Think of it this way...Say we had DD only right now, and you were a huge Mortal Kombat fan...Midway is just about gone, so you would not be able to play any MK game for the rest of your life....that's all I was trying to say, and either way both sides of the argument are just speculating right now.
Oh and whoever actually believes that prices will be lower just because everything is DD only are nuts...we would probably end up being thankful that they don't raise the prices.
even if microsoft held one copy of every game ever made on their servers they would have plenty of room they are not holding 1million copys of halo 3 on their systems it would be one copy of halo 3 and when you download it you get a copy also stardock is allready implameanting a code system so you can allways get their games if they die out or you decided you dont like steam anymore and your going to use D2Dlets think here why would prices be lower perhaps because they dont have to make a case ,cd and manual. they dont have to ship it all over the place,
oh and they dont have to pay $$$ to gamestop for shelf space. if you dont believe me then why do you think steam can have a deal every weekend mostly its 25-75% a game
one part of DD no ones talked about is gaming in a cloud i think the biggest benfit would be the fact that in idhao theres a SOB of a server thats can run crysis 5. (i really wonder how well pysics can be transferred)
[QUOTE="Gamefan1986"]
[QUOTE="Senor_Kami"]
#1 Your first paragraph is fantasy stuff. Can you honestly see MS going out of business anytime soon? What if MS doesn't want to spend the money for the licences to other companies IPs and makes developers handle... wtf? LOL, Developers already pay to develop their games. You make it sound like When EA makes a harry Potter game, MS is paying for the Harry Potter license on behalf of EA. The licensing fee to make games for MS system is sold BY MS to other companies. They aren't spending money, it's income. Also, if developers can't afford to make games, they're gonna die whether it's digital distribution or physical distribution. If MS went out of business, i'm sure there'd be a solution for people, much like how Steam is setup Plus, MS isn't gonna go out of business anytime soon so this really isn't a worry for the forseeable future.
Your complaint about having to be connected to the internet seems minor to me. We're talking about the future here. Do you really think that internet speed and access to the internet will decrease as time goes on? Every day more and more people are getting access to high speed internet, not the opposite. Even for today, yeah you have to be connected to the net... lol, but if you're buying XBLA games obviously you already have the internet and this isn't an issue for you.
Physical media is dying. It's on it's way out. The biggest platform in the world, the PC, is primarily digital distribution. Physical CD sales have been dropping and internet ones rising basically every year since MP3s were sold online. You cannot fight the future. Punch and kick all you want, those seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years are still gonna go flying by.
07pops07
OK...you seem to have completely missed the point of what I was saying. I didn't say it was even likely that MS would go out of business...I said IF they did...you would be screwed, and if MS didn't WANT to hold every single game from every developer on their servers, then the developers would need their own.
Think of it this way...Say we had DD only right now, and you were a huge Mortal Kombat fan...Midway is just about gone, so you would not be able to play any MK game for the rest of your life....that's all I was trying to say, and either way both sides of the argument are just speculating right now.
Oh and whoever actually believes that prices will be lower just because everything is DD only are nuts...we would probably end up being thankful that they don't raise the prices.
even if microsoft held one copy of every game ever made on their servers they would have plenty of room they are not holding 1million copys of halo 3 on their systems it would be one copy of halo 3 and when you download it you get a copy also stardock is allready implameanting a code system so you can allways get their games if they die out or you decided you dont like steam anymore and your going to use D2Dlets think here why would prices be lower perhaps because they dont have to make a case ,cd and manual. they dont have to ship it all over the place,
oh and they dont have to pay $$$ to gamestop for shelf space. if you dont believe me then why do you think steam can have a deal every weekend mostly its 25-75% a game
one part of DD no ones talked about is gaming in a cloud i think the biggest benfit would be the fact that in idhao theres a SOB of a server thats can run crysis 5. (i really wonder how well pysics can be transferred)
I didn't say anything about Microsoft's CAPABILITY to do such a thing I was just saying that they may not WANT to.
You are assuming that companies will pass all those savings off to the consumer. Steam may offer discounts because there are other options when we are talking about PCs...I mean retail copies of PC software are mostly cheaper than consoles because of it's an open platform, etc.
If there was more than 1 DD only console I HIGHLY doubt that they would do that unless they all did...but they would all try to fleece people for as much as they can because there would be no other options.
I'm not saying that it is impossible, just that I doubt it.
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