Eurogamer's Halo 3: A Retrospective

I believe this is something both fans and people less optimistic about Halo can enjoy:

Halo 3: Retrospective

Eurogamer's Halo 3 review was the one I personally agreed with the most so reading this was very interesting. Both of the writers bring forth good points but I'm (surprise surprise) on Welsh's side. He "gets" it (IMO), describes exactly what sets it apart from all other games in a much better manner than I've seen any other Halo fan do. Alec Meer uses arguments we've all heard many times and that do hold true if you take that point of view, but one thing that bothered me was the following statement:

"...the former Halo fan (that's me) says unbrokenness is not the same as greatness. To my naive mind, a series with this much clout and influence has a duty to gaming, to push things forward, to set new standards."

Is that not exactly what Halo 3 did with saved films, forge, 4 player co-op, bungie.net, the adjustable single player difficulty and scoring and so on? Obviously these features have been in previous games in some form many times over, but never have all of these been incorporated in the same game (except maybe if you count HL2 with mods). The game set a new standard for especially console games when it comes to allowing the player easily use his own creativity and community features in general, a standard I believe will stand until Bungie's next game is released.

One thing I feel Welsh could have talked more about is the AI, which IMO is the reason Halo's singleplayer works as well for me as it does. While the NPCs in Halo might not possess the flanking and teamworking abilities of the enemies in for example Far Cry, they are the most adapting enemies in any fps I've ever played. It's because of the AI you can play Halo as for example a stealth game, a pure run and gunner, a tactical shooter or a brawler, all depeding on what you feel like. Obviously some variants are easier than others but the AI responds in a realistic manner (and the game is still fun to play) whichever you choose, making the gameplay feel much deeper as even if you would play through the whole game using one style you still know you could have tackled every single encounter in the game completely differently. This is the reason I've got more playthtroughs on the Halos than any other fps in existence and one of the main reasons they are among my favorite single player fps's in general.

Also, it's an achievement for a game to still now 5 months from its release manage to force me to write something like this as fast as possible due to the fact I want to play big team battle with my friends :P

Halo trolls are the best trolls.... anyway, good read Inoperative. I've been playing the game a little more lately, after a long dry spell. We should have a GGD Halo 3 night sometime.rragnaar

They're quite the amusement.

I think a Halo 3 game night would be great. I wonder how many GGD regulars would be up for it?

Good read.

I've played many, many FPS games on various different platforms and I certainly think that Halo 3 is just as good as any other of the great FPS games regardless of platform. It looks great, plays great, and is simply just a whole lot of fun to play whether that be single-player, single-player co-op, or online multiplayer. I actually really enjoy the Halo storyline and mythos. The Saved Film feature is incredibly cool and fun to mess with as is the Forge level editor and I find the online to be incredibly addictive. Aside from maybe one particular boss fight that I would have liked to have seen played out I felt the Halo 3 was pretty much the perfect culmination of the trilogy and I'm really looking forward to seeing where they take it to next for the Halo universe.

Overrated. It's crap like Halo that makes me question whether certain companies make a pact with Satan to be mega successful. Seems the only plausible solution.Hoobinator

[QUOTE="Hoobinator"]Overrated. It's crap like Halo that makes me question whether certain companies make a pact with Satan to be mega successful. Seems the only plausible solution.rragnaar

I know it's terrible. Everyone should like what I like and developers should only make games that cater to my tastes. As Agent Smith so eloquently put it in The Matrix: Reloaded - "Me, me, me, ... me too.

[QUOTE="Hoobinator"]Overrated. It's crap like Halo that makes me question whether certain companies make a pact with Satan to be mega successful. Seems the only plausible solution.rragnaar

I have Halo 3, I mildly enjoy Halo 3. But. But. And may I say But. I cannot for the life of me see why this game sells so much, or has the massive following it does. It's a competent, above average shooter, but not up there with the best.

[QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Hoobinator"]Overrated. It's crap like Halo that makes me question whether certain companies make a pact with Satan to be mega successful. Seems the only plausible solution.Hoobinator

I have Halo 3, I mildly enjoy Halo 3. But. But. And may I say But. I cannot for the life of me see why this game sells so much, or has the massive following it does. It's a competent, above average shooter, but not up there with the best.

Well that's a pretty different sentiment then what you're intial post came across as. This one might have been a better one to have gone with then the first one.

I can understand not liking Halo, but there sure are alot of people who outright hate it.

Fine, blame the massive sales on hype......but repeat business don't lie. Every Halo game has sold more than the prior one. So, those people who bought Halo 1 must have been so into the hype that they didn't just buy #2 and #3, they talked their friends into it too....right. Compare that to a series like Metal Gear, where #3 sold half as much as #2.....now that's a game where the hype is far greater than the quality.

IMO, Halo is easily one of the best FPS games in the genre's history, especially when you consider the Marathon ancestry...it's a revolutionary series in every way. #3 was great too....The weapons and enemies have character, the graphics and game engine are solid and the gameplay is unique, fastpaced and carries pristine balance. It's a great game, period.

[QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Hoobinator"]Overrated. It's crap like Halo that makes me question whether certain companies make a pact with Satan to be mega successful. Seems the only plausible solution.Hoobinator

I have Halo 3, I mildly enjoy Halo 3. But. But. And may I say But. I cannot for the life of me see why this game sells so much, or has the massive following it does. It's a competent, above average shooter, but not up there with the best.

I'm calling shenanigans! First, you say that it is overrated and doesn't deserve the success it has. Then, you claim to be part of said success. Either you are a hypocrite, a troll, or exist in some parallel universe where you are the first person to complain about Halo 3 without saying exactly why you didn't like it!

Now, let him sit in the corner, and continue the discussion!

[QUOTE="Hoobinator"]

[QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Hoobinator"]Overrated. It's crap like Halo that makes me question whether certain companies make a pact with Satan to be mega successful. Seems the only plausible solution.AtomicTangerine

I have Halo 3, I mildly enjoy Halo 3. But. But. And may I say But. I cannot for the life of me see why this game sells so much, or has the massive following it does. It's a competent, above average shooter, but not up there with the best.

I'm calling shenanigans! First, you say that it is overrated and doesn't deserve the success it has. Then, you claim to be part of said success. Either you are a hypocrite, a troll, or exist in some parallel universe where you are the first person to complain about Halo 3 without saying exactly why you didn't like it!

Now, let him sit in the corner, and continue the discussion!

I have the game. I got to level 30 online in approx 2 weeks of playing, not even that much, about an hour a day.

The game is so overrated it is not even funny. There are far better shooters out there. Graphics are mediocre, gunplay feels weak, melee is far overpowered with some unbalanced guns. Online community is horrible, but hey it's Halo don't expect an intellectual discussion online. I was annoyed that they had all these cool game types and then didn't include a way to play over LIVE with them, apart from inviting people or friends into your custom games. Some of the maps downright stink. Not enough maps, especially since they're not all open to all game types. The gameplay mechanics of Halo are focused too much on fragging and not enough on teamwork. No kill cam. Overpowered and far too easy to use grenades, just grenade spam all over the place.

Want more??

Want more??

Hoobinator

[QUOTE="Hoobinator"]

Want more??

rragnaar

I'll admit that other people may like it for whatever reason, but I will also state categorically that there are better games out there. We can comapare games an objective level if you want. But fact, there are better games out there.

[QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Hoobinator"]

Want more??

Hoobinator

I'll admit that other people may like it for whatever reason, but I will also state categorically that there are better games out there. We can comapare games an objective level if you want. But fact, there are better games out there.

[QUOTE="Hoobinator"][QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Hoobinator"]

Want more??

rragnaar

I'll admit that other people may like it for whatever reason, but I will also state categorically that there are better games out there. We can comapare games an objective level if you want. But fact, there are better games out there.

I get annoyed when generic trash achieves success over far more deserving games. But society is stupid, they'll fall for the hype and buy whatever is spoon fed into their madden filled mouths.

Fact.

I get annoyed when generic trash achieves success over far more deserving games. But society is stupid, they'll fall for the hype and buy whatever is spoon fed into their madden filled mouths.

Fact.

Hoobinator

So society is stupid for supporting generic trash because they bought Halo 3... and you bought Halo 3... but you are different... Well that argument holds up really well.

If Halo 3 bothers you that much, why not move along? There is nothing you can say at this point that would convince me that you aren't just out for a troll. It is one thing to have a dissenting opinion, it is another thing to be inflammatory about it. If you had started this thread with the following:

"I don't like Halo 3, and here's why:

blahblahblah...blah blah blahblahblag..."

I could respect that.

Instead you took the low road and called it crap.

[QUOTE="Hoobinator"]

I get annoyed when generic trash achieves success over far more deserving games. But society is stupid, they'll fall for the hype and buy whatever is spoon fed into their madden filled mouths.

Fact.

rragnaar

So society is stupid for supporting generic trash because they bought Halo 3... and you bought Halo 3... but you are different... Well that argument holds up really well.

If Halo 3 bothers you that much, why not move along? There is nothing you can say at this point that would convince me that you aren't just out for a troll. It is one thing to have a dissenting opinion, it is another thing to be inflammatory about it. If you had started this thread with the following:

"I don't like Halo 3, and here's why:

blahblahblah...blah blah blahblahblag..."

I could respect that.

Instead you took the low road and called it crap.

I bought it for half price and there was nothing else out there. Just to let you know I never bought or played Halo 1 or 2. But 3 is a joke. Last Halo game I'll be buying. It is generic trash. Generic faceless characters, generic story, generic gunplay.

I reckon Bungie did make a pact with satan, I mean it would probably fit the game, what with you having to kill religious covenant forces.

Why are people who are not interested in a game goes into a thread regarding that game? Oh yeah that's right to troll :|D3s7rUc71oN

You could say my posts in this thread are my retrospective on Halo 3. ;)

I think I'm not meant for this world. I've played the entire Halo series and I don't think they're the best games ever and I don't hate them just for being Halo. I'm stuck somewhere thinking they are wonderfully solid games that I enjoy playing but quickly move on to something else.

I am alone in this world.

I think I'm not meant for this world. I've played the entire Halo series and I don't think they're the best games ever and I don't hate them just for being Halo. I'm stuck somewhere thinking they are wonderfully solid games that I enjoy playing but quickly move on to something else.

I am alone in this world.

smerlus

Wow I didn't think anything like that was possible. :P

I know what you mean though there are some games that others worship and while I think they may be really good or great even I just can't see what they see in them that brings them to such a fervor about the game.

Anyway does anyone know if there is any new content coming soon for Halo 3? I know the maps they released earlier should be available for free sometime soon I think. While some more maps will not doubt be upcoming I wouldn't mind seeing some different kind of content. Perhaps even some stuff that comes with some more Achievements.

I think I'm not meant for this world. I've played the entire Halo series and I don't think they're the best games ever and I don't hate them just for being Halo. I'm stuck somewhere thinking they are wonderfully solid games that I enjoy playing but quickly move on to something else.

I am alone in this world.

smerlus

There is no middle ground. Either you dislike Halo 3, or you are a complete moron who just lets MS spoonfeed you whatever crap they churn out.

Halo 3 isn't my favorite game, but the mere FACT that you and I agree there are better games out there, doesn't make it a fact that there are better games out there. Maybe I get too caught up on people trying to state their opinions as facts, and maybe I just get too caught up on people trying to crap on threads with lame overused words like 'overrated'. If you tried to do a search for 'Halo 3 Overrated', Gamespot would explode. People in your camp have expressed their opinions to a point where it is tiresome, but that doesn't mean that all of you are right. It just means that there is a large contingency of people who get annoyed with games that they don't appreciate getting attention and having success.rragnaar

Um ... wow. Insert slow clap. That's like one of the best responses I've ever heard to a relentless Halo basher. I've put most of them on mental ignore, but at least there are some out there that can still represent.

Regarding the OP, though, I finally read both pages of that article and found it to be a very interesting juxtaposition of how gamers have splintered into two general groups: enjoyers and complainers. One looked for what to enjoy in Halo 3 the game and the other complained about what Halo the phenomenom has become. And they both mention CoD4 in the expected way as well: the Halo 3 fan still recognizes what makes CoD4 fun and great while acknowledge that it is largely by-the-numbers and the Halo 3 hater lauds CoD4 for the handful of things it does fantastic while ignoring the bigger picture. Its all become so typical now that it bores me.

Its sad that so many refuse to see past their own preconceptions to see why Halo 3 is such a great experience and a marvelous game. Yeah, it sold extremely well, but the backlash against its success unfortunately blinds many gamers from the efforts of the developers to truly make a compelling gameplay experience. Oh well.

Um ... wow. Insert slow clap. That's like one of the best responses I've ever heard to a relentless Halo basher. I've put most of them on mental ignore, but at least there are some out there that can still represent.

Darth_Tigris

:lol: Thanks... You would think that Halo was a vampire that drank the blood of puppies and kittens for as much as people love to rail against it.

[QUOTE="Darth_Tigris"]

Um ... wow. Insert slow clap. That's like one of the best responses I've ever heard to a relentless Halo basher. I've put most of them on mental ignore, but at least there are some out there that can still represent.

rragnaar

:lol: Thanks... You would think that Halo was a vampire that drank the blood of puppies and kittens for as much as people love to rail against it.

If it actually did that.... it would be the best game ever

[QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Darth_Tigris"]

Um ... wow. Insert slow clap. That's like one of the best responses I've ever heard to a relentless Halo basher. I've put most of them on mental ignore, but at least there are some out there that can still represent.

smerlus

:lol: Thanks... You would think that Halo was a vampire that drank the blood of puppies and kittens for as much as people love to rail against it.

If it actually did that.... it would be the best game ever

Oh... so THAT'S why it is overrated. It all makes sense now.

[QUOTE="smerlus"][QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Darth_Tigris"]

Um ... wow. Insert slow clap. That's like one of the best responses I've ever heard to a relentless Halo basher. I've put most of them on mental ignore, but at least there are some out there that can still represent.

rragnaar

:lol: Thanks... You would think that Halo was a vampire that drank the blood of puppies and kittens for as much as people love to rail against it.

If it actually did that.... it would be the best game ever

Oh... so THAT'S why it is overrated. It all makes sense now.

yep... i expect all console FPS's to have photorealistic puppy and kitten killing in 1080p at least.

Now if I can push the elderly down stairs in HD, put razor blades in apples and hand them out to kids.... then the game is perfect

[QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="smerlus"][QUOTE="rragnaar"][QUOTE="Darth_Tigris"]

Um ... wow. Insert slow clap. That's like one of the best responses I've ever heard to a relentless Halo basher. I've put most of them on mental ignore, but at least there are some out there that can still represent.

smerlus

:lol: Thanks... You would think that Halo was a vampire that drank the blood of puppies and kittens for as much as people love to rail against it.

If it actually did that.... it would be the best game ever

Oh... so THAT'S why it is overrated. It all makes sense now.

yep... i expect all console FPS's to have photorealistic puppy and kitten killing in 1080p at least.

Now if I can push the elderly down stairs in HD, put razor blades in apples and hand them out to kids.... then the game is perfect

If we are lucky Tryarch will deliver the goods in COD9.

I always have mixed feelings about Halo. On one hand its a great franchise that has turned out 3 of the better games over the past 2 generations. It has a solid SP campaign and great multiplayer support, even though Halo's brand of "rush for the power weapons" gameplay isn't my cup of tea. But on the other hand Halo sets a dangerous precedent. Halo CE was one of the best games I've played, it was fun, exciting, well paced and the multiplayer kept the game fun long after you finished the campaign. The problem is Halo 2 and Halo 3 really didn't add much in the grand scheme of things. While Halo 2 added online multiplayer, there were already a ton of great online multiplayer games available on consoles. While Halo 3 added customization features, it wasn't anything we haven't seen from PC gaming over the years. When I play Halo 2 and Halo 3, it feels more like I'm playing an expansion pack to Halo CE than a true sequel. They added new features, new weapons, new vehicles etc., but it never felt like a new experience.

I always have mixed feelings about Halo. On one hand its a great franchise that has turned out 3 of the better games over the past 2 generations. It has a solid SP campaign and great multiplayer support, even though Halo's brand of "rush for the power weapons" gameplay isn't my cup of tea. But on the other hand Halo sets a dangerous precedent. Halo CE was one of the best games I've played, it was fun, exciting, well paced and the multiplayer kept the game fun long after you finished the campaign. The problem is Halo 2 and Halo 3 really didn't add much in the grand scheme of things. While Halo 2 added online multiplayer, there were already a ton of great online multiplayer games available on consoles. While Halo 3 added customization features, it wasn't anything we haven't seen from PC gaming over the years. When I play Halo 2 and Halo 3, it feels more like I'm playing an expansion pack to Halo CE than a true sequel. They added new features, new weapons, new vehicles etc., but it never felt like a new experience.

PBSnipes

but you have to realize that this was a trilogy in the same way the LOTR was. You really can't change much between the sequels because the game is supposed to feel familiar and continuous.

[QUOTE="PBSnipes"]

I always have mixed feelings about Halo. On one hand its a great franchise that has turned out 3 of the better games over the past 2 generations. It has a solid SP campaign and great multiplayer support, even though Halo's brand of "rush for the power weapons" gameplay isn't my cup of tea. But on the other hand Halo sets a dangerous precedent. Halo CE was one of the best games I've played, it was fun, exciting, well paced and the multiplayer kept the game fun long after you finished the campaign. The problem is Halo 2 and Halo 3 really didn't add much in the grand scheme of things. While Halo 2 added online multiplayer, there were already a ton of great online multiplayer games available on consoles. While Halo 3 added customization features, it wasn't anything we haven't seen from PC gaming over the years. When I play Halo 2 and Halo 3, it feels more like I'm playing an expansion pack to Halo CE than a true sequel. They added new features, new weapons, new vehicles etc., but it never felt like a new experience.

smerlus

but you have to realize that this was a trilogy in the same way the LOTR was. You really can't change much between the sequels because the game is supposed to feel familiar and continuous.

I never got how people who have been gaming for years and have had a fair number of games pre-Halo could ever consider Halo revolutionary, let alone in the top 20 games. I always here the words 'revolutionary' and 'innovative' used but when asked why many simply reply with a vague response 'The game introduced the 2 weapon system, streamlined console controls' really not only was the 2 weapon system done before, but Halo has still not made any impact on FPS games, I still see games that have a 'magic pocket' mechanic, as for streamlining console controls, yes it did, but something so trivial deserves no recognition. What I also find trivial is that people seem to praise the Marathon inspiration, once again pretty trivial to mention really, especially when you're trying to convince somebody that it deserves to be critically acclaimed (also considering how 2% of the population, including me, have actually PLAYED Marathon).

I can however get why it is popular in terms of sales, you see this game had something everyone loves, killing aliens, it was a shooter and it was simple, simply titled and on a console. This appealed to the casual market and they bought it, word of mouth spread and soon every kid had Halo. Then Halo 2 came along with online play and its popularity increased even more with the casual market. Since the casual player loved it so much (since it was a simple game to get in to, as well as the things mentioned above) they were quick to call it the 'Greatest FPS ever' of course some of them played past FPS games but since Halo was more streamlined and modern (and for many their first FPS they really got into) they weren't into games such as System Shock 2 or Duke Nukem or Perfect Dark. This is a theory of mine however, but I'm pretty confident that is the scenario for many Halo fans.

I felt that Halo 3 brought quite a bit of new things to the series. New weapons like the Spartan Laser, Brute Spiker, Brute Hammer, and the Spike Grenade. Support weapons like turrets, missle pods, and the flame thrower which offer increased firepower at the cost of mobility. Equipment like trip mines, grav lift, bubble shield, and the other one whose name escapes at the time that will drain an opponent's sheild or stop a vehicle dead in it's tracks. New vehicles like the Mongoose, the Hornet, the Elephant, and the Brute Chopper. The single player campaign has more varied and more open environments. The AI is pretty well done and the difficulty levels seem spot on with Legendary mode being a very intense and satisfying expeirence without being overly frustrating. It has alot of those "Oh wow, that was cool moments." whether it be in single player fighting the Scarabs or in online multi-player when you get a satisfying stick with a plasma grenade on a Warthog filled with your opponents.

Like I said before I've played many other great shooters on various platforms and I have no qualms at all placing the Halo games among those other greats. The expeirence I've had with the series has been just as solid and as fun as those others.

I never got how people who have been gaming for years and have had a fair number of games pre-Halo could ever consider Halo revolutionary, let alone in the top 20 games. I always here the words 'revolutionary' and 'innovative' used but when asked why many simply reply with a vague response 'The game introduced the 2 weapon system, streamlined console controls' really not only was the 2 weapon system done before, but Halo has still not made any impact on FPS games, I still see games that have a 'magic pocket' mechanic, as for streamlining console controls, yes it did, but something so trivial deserves no recognition. What I also find trivial is that people seem to praise the Marathon inspiration, once again pretty trivial to mention really, especially when you're trying to convince somebody that it deserves to be critically acclaimed (also considering how 2% of the population, including me, have actually PLAYED Marathon).

I can however get why it is popular in terms of sales, you see this game had something everyone loves, killing aliens, it was a shooter and it was simple, simply titled and on a console. This appealed to the casual market and they bought it, word of mouth spread and soon every kid had Halo. Then Halo 2 came along with online play and its popularity increased even more with the casual market. Since the casual player loved it so much (since it was a simple game to get in to, as well as the things mentioned above) they were quick to call it the 'Greatest FPS ever' of course some of them played past FPS games but since Halo was more streamlined and modern (and for many their first FPS they really got into) they weren't into games such as System Shock 2 or Duke Nukem or Perfect Dark. This is a theory of mine however, but I'm pretty confident that is the scenario for many Halo fans.

greenghost123

Wait a second here! I played Doom and Wolfenstien way back, and I really liked Halo! Really, I did!

It is totally true that none of what Halo did was truly awesome by itself. However, to think that a game has to turn the whole industry on its head is a tad unrealistic, don't you think?

What made Halo stand out was the little things it did, and these are little things that have been copied by tons of other games since, even in the sacred realm of the PC. Regenerating health/shields is awesome, and the way it was handled in Halo showed us a different way that health could be handled in a game. Grenades were actually well-integrated. Instead of being a weapon you had to select independently, you just push one button instead of having to select grenades as a weapon. The motion tracker was a great way to solve the problem of FPS tunnel vision without letting you know where all your enemies are at all times. Halo was a game of small revolutions in the way we handle an FPS, which put together, created a great game.

I'm sure there are some more that I'm forgetting, but to say Halo was totally unoriginal and derivative would be a lie. Thanks for not being a troll though and actually writing out reasons why, because even if I disagree with them, it is refreshing to see the same anti-Halo argument with decent grammar and such!

Wow, this isn't exactly what I had intended this thread to turn into when I made it, but considering it contains an article that actually says something good about Halo in the OP I suppose it was to be expected.

I think a GGD Halo night would be awesome if we could put one together! I live in Europe so the time difference could be a bit of a problem but if we choose a saturday night there shouldn't be a problem for me at least (if that is possible for you guys). My GT is "UAc KiLr", feel free to add me and we could try to set something up.

And to response to greenghost123, I like many other Halo fans have played fps's since Doom or around that time (I personally started with the Marathons). The Halo fanbase like any other larger fanbase is extremely diverse so there's no point in trying to generalize by using stereotypes.