Forgotten shooters

This topic is locked from further discussion.

Avatar image for Temporius
Temporius

502

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#1 Temporius
Member since 2008 • 502 Posts

I'm not refering to FPS games nobody remembers, I'm refering to an entire genre of games that are still called shooters by only the few people whoe recognize them. The 2d shooter is still alive outside of things like geometry wars and other things you might find on download services, but very few people know about that. I've come up with a few reasons as to why:

1.Difficulty. Unlike most games, 2d shooters appear to have become harder rather than easier over time. That doesn't mean the older ones were easy either. R-type, while generally well liked, is far harder than any modern game, demanding that the player memorize the entire game to have a chance. Gradius lacked memorization, but made every life after the first one meaningless, and was still harder the Demon's Souls. More modern shooters tend be bullet hell, such as Mushihime-Sama Futari, which, on its highest difficulty, makes Battletoads look easy. Even easier bullet hell games, such as the Touhou series, are still much more than most modern games, even on easy. The few games that are easy enough for the average gamer tend be terrible games in a subgenre known as "euroshmups", which tend to leave people with bad impressions. More recently, a few not insane games have appeared, most notably Genetos, which is a great introduction, as well as freeware.

2.Perception. The above mentioned euroshmups are all most people hear about. They're told the genre as a whole is generic, derivative garbage that you can clear while blindfolded. Some of them have their only experience from videos like this one, probably having seen only this one, and think that 2d shooters are completely impossible and that only a lunatic would play them. The reviews often don't help, and always have the same complaints: too short, can credit feed to the end, too easy because of infinite continues, or alternatively, way too hard and infinite continues are the only thing that make it bearable. Also, the majority of these games have not seen a release outside of Japan, although DeathSmiles is going to be coming out some time this year.

3.Length. A 2d shooter lasting more than an hour per playthrough is rare. The majority of people are unused to score hunting, and instead only play to see the ending. This leads to people simply continueing every time they die, often using several hundred continues in one stage, and calling the game "done". This is normally a bad idea, and will get you laughed at if you claim to have beaten a game this way. These games are often ports of arcade games, and as such were intended for people to try to clear the whole game on just one credit, or for people to try get a high score. If you attempt either, you will notice the game suddenly becomes much longer.

I'm not talking about any specific games, I'm talking about the entire genre. Several people I spoke to had not even heard of any games in it other than raiden, and could not even tell what genre I was talking about until I mentioned Raiden. The 2d shooter genre has seen recent releases, but they have not recieved any praise, and so among the people who do know about this genre, everyone thinks the whole genre is dead, and has been ever since 3d graphics came around. It isn't.

Avatar image for DazeHeart
DazeHeart

27

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#2 DazeHeart
Member since 2010 • 27 Posts
Forgotten and/or Under-Rated Shooters: Freedom Fighters - Forgotten, alas not under-rated. We would have seen a Freedom Fighters 2, but Kayne and Linch was made instead. Xcom Enforcer - Under-rated despite gamespot reviews. Great variety of weapons/aliens and it's explosive fun. Half Life 1 - A gem of the FPS line, however forgotten, and not played by the new generations of the ever-growing FPS community. There's more I can't remember right now.
Avatar image for Spirit_of_87
Spirit_of_87

2423

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3 Spirit_of_87
Member since 2003 • 2423 Posts

Forgotten and/or Under-Rated Shooters: Freedom Fighters - Forgotten, alas not under-rated. We would have seen a Freedom Fighters 2, but Kayne and Linch was made instead. Xcom Enforcer - Under-rated despite gamespot reviews. Great variety of weapons/aliens and it's explosive fun. Half Life 1 - A gem of the FPS line, however forgotten, and not played by the new generations of the ever-growing FPS community. There's more I can't remember right now.

DazeHeart

You're way off :wink:

He/she means this:

Image 22

and not this:

Image 4

Avatar image for chadwick1343
chadwick1343

944

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 36

User Lists: 0

#4 chadwick1343
Member since 2009 • 944 Posts
Contra Gradius
Avatar image for Polybren
Polybren

1678

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#5 Polybren
Member since 2004 • 1678 Posts
Mars Matrix And how dare you call Geometry Wars garbage. HOW DARE YOU SIR.
Avatar image for yagr_zero
yagr_zero

27850

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 0

#6 yagr_zero
Member since 2006 • 27850 Posts
[QUOTE="Polybren"]Mars Matrix And how dare you call Geometry Wars garbage. HOW DARE YOU SIR.

I remember that game. That was crazy good.
Avatar image for iano-87
iano-87

685

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#7 iano-87
Member since 2010 • 685 Posts

garbage like geometry wars

Temporius

wash your mouth out!

Avatar image for Spirit_of_87
Spirit_of_87

2423

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#8 Spirit_of_87
Member since 2003 • 2423 Posts

[QUOTE="Polybren"]Mars Matrix And how dare you call Geometry Wars garbage. HOW DARE YOU SIR.Yagr_Zero
I remember that game. That was crazy good.

I agree, Geometry Wars is garbage. But, Mars Matrix rocks!

The TC is not asking for a list of underrated or forgotten shooters, he is asking for reasons or opinions on why the genre as a whole, is not as popular as the others and why it remains a "niche" genre.

Avatar image for discipleofsin
discipleofsin

352

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#9 discipleofsin
Member since 2004 • 352 Posts

it generally remains a niche genre due to the fact that to the average person, shooters are ludicously difficult ... hell even to the "hardcore" these are some of the hardest games out there. when people cannot manage to continously make progress is a game, they get frustrated and stop playing the game ... it happens enough and people give up on a genre.

Avatar image for TylerW
TylerW

451

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#10 TylerW
Member since 2002 • 451 Posts

Your Gradius V screenshot makes me very happy.

Some of my favorites over the years - Life Force for the NES, Thunder Force III, Forgotten Realms for the Genesis, and if course, Ikaruga.

Avatar image for Ev-the-Nev
Ev-the-Nev

171

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#11 Ev-the-Nev
Member since 2008 • 171 Posts

Heres a few old skoolshooters i thought of after reading this that were awesome back in the day!

. Die Hard Trilogy

. Lifeforce Tenka

. Alien Trilogy

. Spec Ops (PS1 not the new one coming out)

. Duke Nukem 3d (Never to be forgotten)

.

.

.

"If it bleeds , , , we can kill it!"

Avatar image for SemiMaster
SemiMaster

19011

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 81

User Lists: 0

#12 SemiMaster
Member since 2006 • 19011 Posts

I was incredibly proud when I first was able to beat Life Force and Contra without the Konami Code.

SNK made some good ones too like Shock Troopers and Metal Slug.

Avatar image for Dire_Weasel
Dire_Weasel

16681

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 0

#13 Dire_Weasel
Member since 2002 • 16681 Posts

M.U.S.H.A and Space Megaforce are two of my favorite older shooters.

Avatar image for Temporius
Temporius

502

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#14 Temporius
Member since 2008 • 502 Posts
Yes, I'm referring to the space shooter/2d shooter/scrolling shooter/shmup. If you don't know what I'm talking about, click the link in the first post a play genetos. As for geometry wars: I'm standing by what I said. Scoring in the original consists of "shoot stuff and don't die", but nothing else, as well as having way too many particle effects, which have a tendency to make things hard to see. The game can also go on without end, meaning that once you become able to survive the game at it's hardest, the only thing that determines how high your score can go is how long you're willing to spend playing. The sequel adds a multiplier that goes up by something other than just firing, but still has the problem of endurance determining top scores more than skill. Having that as the only scoring mechanic is also out of date. There is not much difference between killing enemies and freely picking up the items they drop than just killing them. More recent games tend to feature far more elaborate scoring mechanics. For example, Genetos uses a relatively simple simple scoring mechanic: killing enemies with bombs or subweapon will cause a combo. The value of each enemy is multiplied by the current combo number. If you spend too long not killing enemies in this way, the combo resets. Any bullets hit by bombs are converted into point items as well. Instead of just shooting everything you see, you actually have to combine your bombs and subweapon in order to attain a high score. However, you can't get very enemy with these, so you also have to figure out when you need to use your normal shot. You also have to figure out what type of shot, bomb, and subweapon you want and get those. This leads to there being quite a lot more to scoring that just shooting.
Avatar image for Michael-Smith
Michael-Smith

909

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#15 Michael-Smith
Member since 2009 • 909 Posts
I'm not really a big shooter fan, but to this day Lifeforce on the NES is one of my favorite games from that generation. I actually played through it again a few times about a month ago on the VC. :)
Avatar image for Pvt_r3d
Pvt_r3d

7901

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#16 Pvt_r3d
Member since 2006 • 7901 Posts
Einhander
Avatar image for D1zzyCriminal
D1zzyCriminal

1839

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#17 D1zzyCriminal
Member since 2009 • 1839 Posts

I loved Tyrian that was a good game the weapon and ship modding was cool too. Thanks to DOSbox I can play it again after many years (Tyrian 2000).

Its worth checking out .

Avatar image for andalore
andalore

2644

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 0

#18 andalore
Member since 2007 • 2644 Posts

The Lost World:Jurassic Park on the Megadrive, on of my first games and one of my favourites of all time.

Avatar image for Maxynator
Maxynator

183

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#19 Maxynator
Member since 2010 • 183 Posts

Games have definitely been getting easier. Im 18, so the newer generation of gamers, but I dl'd Super Mario Bros 3 trough VC, and its incredibly hard. It takes a lot of time to get into the rhythm of older games if your new to it, a lot longer that with modern day games

Avatar image for Shame-usBlackley
Shame-usBlackley

18266

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 0

#20 Shame-usBlackley
Member since 2002 • 18266 Posts

garbage like geometry wars

Temporius

Care to back up that assertion? Because if you hadn't lost your mind, you'd realize what a lame statement that was. Geometry Wars is like Robotron 2084 pissed off, pumped with steroids, and given a red pepper enema. Robotron is STILL, to this day, considered one of the greatest shooters ever made, and Geometry Wars blows it away in just about every way -- from visuals to design.

It's nice to see a shmup thread from an obvious shmup fan, but for Christ's sake, dude. I mean..... DUDE. Really, dude. :|

Avatar image for TheRaiderNation
TheRaiderNation

1653

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#21 TheRaiderNation
Member since 2007 • 1653 Posts

Ray Crisis: Series Termination was a great shooter for the PS which I loved. I'd consider it a forgotten quality shooter.

I'd say Einhander as well coming out of that same era, but that game still comes up in gaming conversations. Einhander was one of the best shooters I have ever played!

Avatar image for Temporius
Temporius

502

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#22 Temporius
Member since 2008 • 502 Posts
Why has nobody mentioned anything modern? Several of these games have come out recently, and the huge in Japan DeathSmiles is coming soon to the US, but nobody has mentioned anything more recent than mars matrix, which was release in 2000. It seems like nobody know the genre is still alive.
Avatar image for Magnol49
Magnol49

459

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#23 Magnol49
Member since 2007 • 459 Posts

@ Spirit_of_87: What is the FPS in your 'not this' screenshot?

So not to derail: I heart R-Type games, gruelling though they may be.

Omega Five is a fun R-Type style shooter on XBL Arcade.

Avatar image for D1zzyCriminal
D1zzyCriminal

1839

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25 D1zzyCriminal
Member since 2009 • 1839 Posts

Why has nobody mentioned anything modern? Several of these games have come out recently, and the huge in Japan DeathSmiles is coming soon to the US, but nobody has mentioned anything more recent than mars matrix, which was release in 2000. It seems like nobody know the genre is still alive.Temporius

Thats because the thread is about "Forgotten" shooters. The more modern it is the less likely it is to have been forgotten.

Avatar image for Spirit_of_87
Spirit_of_87

2423

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26 Spirit_of_87
Member since 2003 • 2423 Posts

@ Spirit_of_87: What is the FPS in your 'not this' screenshot?

So not to derail: I heart R-Type games, gruelling though they may be.

Omega Five is a fun R-Type style shooter on XBL Arcade.

Magnol49

Darkwatch

Cool western/horror FPS that was released on the PS2 and Xbox.

Avatar image for Spirit_of_87
Spirit_of_87

2423

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#27 Spirit_of_87
Member since 2003 • 2423 Posts

Why has nobody mentioned anything modern? Several of these games have come out recently, and the huge in Japan DeathSmiles is coming soon to the US, but nobody has mentioned anything more recent than mars matrix, which was release in 2000. It seems like nobody know the genre is still alive.Temporius

That's like asking for a list of games by Cave, with a little G-REV, Milestoneand Konami. I am probably forgetting a few developers.

Let's see off the top of my head:

  • Ibara
  • Homura
  • Otomedius
  • Under Defeat
  • Karous
  • Radirgy
  • Gradius Rebirth
  • Thunder Force VI
  • Pink Sweets
  • Nano Stray 2
  • Chaos Field
  • The Monkey King (sucks)
  • Ketsui DS
  • Muchimuchi Pork
  • Parodius Portable (old but an awesome comp)
  • Twinbee Portable
  • Salamander Portable
  • Mushimesama
  • Espgaluda II (comes out this month)
  • Mushihimesama Futari
  • Space Invaders Extreme
  • Space Invaders Infinity Gene (which is like the game you linked too, an evolution of the genre)
  • Border Down

Well you get the idea. No one is talking about new releases because not everyone imports. Maybe 5% of the gaming population. People usually remember Ikaruga and Geometry Wars because they are the most accessible. Although, when compared to what you and I have played are considered (for lack of a better word) garbage.

Avatar image for Temporius
Temporius

502

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#28 Temporius
Member since 2008 • 502 Posts

[QUOTE="Temporius"]Why has nobody mentioned anything modern? Several of these games have come out recently, and the huge in Japan DeathSmiles is coming soon to the US, but nobody has mentioned anything more recent than mars matrix, which was release in 2000. It seems like nobody know the genre is still alive.D1zzyCriminal

Thats because the thread is about "Forgotten" shooters. The more modern it is the less likely it is to have been forgotten.

The title refers to the whole genre, not any of the specific games. The few shooters that have seen a US release are unheard of. Raiden IV, Castle Shikigami 3, and almost all of milestone's games were quickly pulled off store shelves because nobody knew what they were.
Avatar image for Temporius
Temporius

502

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 0

#29 Temporius
Member since 2008 • 502 Posts

March is Intergalatic Shmuppreciation Month. This is wherepeople who already know about the genre attempt to get new people interested. Though they haven't updated their contest yet, I expect they will soon. Aksys games, the people localizing DeathSmiles, are also hoping for this to be the "Year of the Shmup". Hopefully both will succeed.