How to fix Xenogears

Playing Xenogears, it immediately became apparent that there was simply too much depth and complexity. The story is long, there's a lot going on, and how are people supposed to keep track of it all at once? No wonder it was a commercial failure.

Anyways, I think Xenogears is a great example of what not to do in games. Characters with depth. Stories that span over 50 hours. Too much of the plot isn't explained in clear enough detail. So basically I'd like to know what could be removed from Xenogears in order to make it a better game if Square ever decides to remake the title?

So...you'd rather want a cheap game with a bland story, no character development and basically nothing worth remember the game for; no memorable parts? I haven't played Xenogears but yeah, saying a game is "too" in depth and because you don't have a clear cut story makes it a bad game. Having a nice happy ending with every single question you have about the story answered makes it very boring.

1. The ability to skip certain scenes or scroll through text faster. 2. A log book of sorts, similar to Tales of Symphonia, to give you a recap of things that have happened and what you have learned as the game progresses. Add something for characters to the log book as well. 3. An expansion of disc 2 to give it the depth and open feel that disc 1 had, not to mention the lost sidequests being put back in. So basically, the game needs more, not less. :PMAILER_DAEMON

How to fix XenoGears? Don't rush it this time around, don't give the team a horrible budget to work with, voice overs, story log like in XenoSaga Ep.3, replace the anime scenes with high quality cell shaded FMV's, completely re-do the second disc. Even if they don't fix it I still find it to be the best Square title and best JRPG.

Ah, Clockwork.

Ah, Clockwork.

hakanakumono

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Ah, Clockwork.

MAILER_DAEMON

You don't fix Xenogears, period.

Playing Xenogears, it immediately became apparent that there was simply too much depth and complexity. The story is long, there's a lot going on, and how are people supposed to keep track of it all at once? No wonder it was a commercial failure.

Anyways, I think Xenogears is a great example of what not to do in games. Characters with depth. Stories that span over 50 hours. Too much of the plot isn't explained in clear enough detail. So basically I'd like to know what could be removed from Xenogears in order to make it a better game if Square ever decides to remake the title?

hakanakumono

I think its funny that people whine about gaming cliches, but once a story line forces people to pay attention, suddenly it has "too much depth and complexity." Go figure.:lol:

I genuinely wonder if this thread is just cleverly designed flamebait.

[QUOTE="MAILER_DAEMON"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Ah, Clockwork.

jasonharris48

Yep, flamebait confirmed.

How to fix XenoGears? Don't rush it this time around, don't give the team a horrible budget to work with, voice overs, story log like in XenoSaga Ep.3, replace the anime scenes with high quality cell shaded FMV's, completely re-do the second disc. Even if they don't fix it I still find it to be the best Square title and best JRPG.

jasonharris48

[QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

How to fix XenoGears? Don't rush it this time around, don't give the team a horrible budget to work with, voice overs, story log like in XenoSaga Ep.3, replace the anime scenes with high quality cell shaded FMV's, completely re-do the second disc. Even if they don't fix it I still find it to be the best Square title and best JRPG.

Threesixtyci

[QUOTE="Threesixtyci"][QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

How to fix XenoGears? Don't rush it this time around, don't give the team a horrible budget to work with, voice overs, story log like in XenoSaga Ep.3, replace the anime scenes with high quality cell shaded FMV's, completely re-do the second disc. Even if they don't fix it I still find it to be the best Square title and best JRPG.

MAILER_DAEMON

[QUOTE="Threesixtyci"][QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

How to fix XenoGears? Don't rush it this time around, don't give the team a horrible budget to work with, voice overs, story log like in XenoSaga Ep.3, replace the anime scenes with high quality cell shaded FMV's, completely re-do the second disc. Even if they don't fix it I still find it to be the best Square title and best JRPG.

MAILER_DAEMON

I had always felt that a significant part of game was left on the cutting room floor, I just never knew what the real story was. You really can't find fault with Square here. Sinking too much money into a risky project over a likely success of a major brand like Final Fantasy wouldn't have been a prudent business decision. Yes, it was amazing that Xenogears was released here, especially without being significantly neutered as that was back in the days of ,"let's try not offend our American Christian audience."

Without a game like Xenogears, we may never have seen the Shin Megami Tensei series in the states.

The Xenosaga situation he cites is true, too bloated of a budget and too many egos ruined that project and did cause the co-authors of Xenogears to leave midway through the production of Ep.2, but this was something completely separate.

How to fix XenoGears? Don't rush it this time around, don't give the team a horrible budget to work with, voice overs, story log like in XenoSaga Ep.3, replace the anime scenes with high quality cell shaded FMV's, completely re-do the second disc. Even if they don't fix it I still find it to be the best Square title and best JRPG.

I found Xenogears perfect, and the best traditional JRPG of the 5th generation. And I don't want to see it remade. Putting it on the PSN store like it is on the JP PSN would be fine. And MAYBE a PSP/DS port ala Chrono trigger. No remakes though, we've had enough of those from square enix for this gen and the next.

[QUOTE="Threesixtyci"][QUOTE="jasonharris48"]

How to fix XenoGears? Don't rush it this time around, don't give the team a horrible budget to work with, voice overs, story log like in XenoSaga Ep.3, replace the anime scenes with high quality cell shaded FMV's, completely re-do the second disc. Even if they don't fix it I still find it to be the best Square title and best JRPG.

texasgoldrush

You know, for a "love-it-or-hate-it-game" it sure has a skewed proportion of love to hate. 83% love it.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="Threesixtyci"] I seriously doubt that Xenogears was rushed. It's more likely the creator was too much of a perfectionist and took way too long on it. Probably why the same guy quit the Xenosaga series, during the middle of Episode 2. Also would explain why the Xenosaga series was cut short by 3 episodes. And why Episode 3, was condensed with so many plot points.hakanakumono

You know, for a "love-it-or-hate-it-game" it sure has a skewed proportion of love to hate. 83% love it.

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] It was rushed, but you are right in a way that the creator was a perfectonist and took too long on it. It had too many ideas and when it was rushed, couldn't impliment them well. Both the games creator and the executives were at fault for this. Disc 2 had the worst pacing I have ever seen in an RPG... It is still a good RPG, mid tier to top tier, but it is far from the greatest JRPG ever. Many JRPGs have better executed narratives and better gameplay.texasgoldrush

You know, for a "love-it-or-hate-it-game" it sure has a skewed proportion of love to hate. 83% love it.

In other words, every single game that had a decent budget that had good playtesters. I know I don't like FFVIII, and many of my friends don't like it either. Does that make FFVIII a "love it or hate it" game?

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"] It was rushed, but you are right in a way that the creator was a perfectonist and took too long on it. It had too many ideas and when it was rushed, couldn't impliment them well. Both the games creator and the executives were at fault for this. Disc 2 had the worst pacing I have ever seen in an RPG... It is still a good RPG, mid tier to top tier, but it is far from the greatest JRPG ever. Many JRPGs have better executed narratives and better gameplay.texasgoldrush

You know, for a "love-it-or-hate-it-game" it sure has a skewed proportion of love to hate. 83% love it.

Here's Final Fantasy VI, your so called universally loved game. A 6/10, a 6/10, and a 3/10? My goodness it must not be that great of a game because some people don't like it.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/review/562865.html

Or maybe, just maybe, Final Fantasy VI is an excellent game despite lower scores? People who don't like it? Xenogears gets a lot of love for doing exactly what you dislike it for. It has depth. Lot's of depth. And that's what makes it to the top of people's lists. Sure, there are the people who are mad because Xenogears isn't a good enough fighting game or because it has "too much depth," but those aren't really valid opinions in the first place.

Out of the very few reviews that scored below 7/10 for Xenogears (or even 8/10 for that matter) the majority of the criticism wasn't justified. "The cutscenes are too long" and "the game is too long" somehow brought the game down several points, because the reviewer couldn't be bothered to sit through the story. And one commented on how there was "barely any story" at all! ... What? People who have brains like Xenogears. If you can't sit down and read a book you probably can't play Xenogears, but that doesn't mean that it's Xenogears' fault you have the attention span of a chipmunk.

[QUOTE="texasgoldrush"][QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

You know, for a "love-it-or-hate-it-game" it sure has a skewed proportion of love to hate. 83% love it.

infested_ramza

In other words, every single game that had a decent budget that had good playtesters. I know I don't like FFVIII, and many of my friends don't like it either. Does that make FFVIII a "love it or hate it" game?

Actually, VIII is generally considred a love it or hate it game because it either spawns love or hatred, but little in between.

Xenogears, on the hand, isn't considered a love it or hate it game because it isn't really a dividing game. The general concensus is that it's good and it has a very small proportion of people who dislike it.

Our dear friend texasgoldrush's logic is that somehow public opinion defines how good a game is and that's why the game he lists are perfect; because no one criticizes them.

Anyways, I'm glad to see the poll go the direction it did. Most people seem to think Xenogears is one of the best JRPGs around, contrary to the opinion of texasgoldrush. Because people's opinions influence how good a game is, I guess that means that Xenogears is a top tier game? ;)

You are using the Playstation version of FFVI, which is considered inferior to the other versions...of course those scores would be lower.

That 3 out of 10 review was slamming the porting of the game.

There's 4 6/10s on the SNES ver and 1 5/10.