I don't like where gaming is headed

Let me discuss with you a personal thing.I think I will find lots of opinions as mine.
I confess, I am still young, damn I am 15 years old but I've been noticing a big change on the mentalities of every platform gamers, and this on a pejorative way unfortunately.
Who is here that remember spening a entire weekend trying to kill a boss in order to be able to save game? Waking up earlier with a real desire of achieving it. And at the end, that sensation of victory that was so glorious... Those are great childhood memories, we didn't had a big variety of games but we were happy with what we had!
And what do we see today? People whining because there have been 20 seconds without a save point... People whining because a game is too hard... People searching for the walkthrough, without even trying to fight for victory, without even trying to find out how to pass that level for themselves.
If we join the fact of this mentalities evolution, with the fact that formerly only ten games were released every year and we only had access to two or three, and now it looks like every day a game is released... here we have the recipe for the end of the games and we know them, sorry, as we USED to know them.
That desire, that search for challenge, that sensation of victory, those feelings for which we can't find words are lost, probably forever.
Kids don't play Super Mario, Zelda not even Pokemon Stadium anymore. Nowadays they give them a controller and a Call of Duty copy.
I confess, I always loved everything that was multiplayer. That interaction with others while playing was just absolutely fantastic. There were amazing communities where people had fun and at the same time played, and here I have to talk about Counter-Strike, where I've played for years until a few months ago. Taking Counter-Strike as an example I have witnessed a giant revolution. I remember the days where I played with my friends, we made games with each other, we helped and we were helped. Today we find children doing mic spam and complaining because the player X or Y killed him and is using cheats.
Communities changed completely, they took me the pleasure I had of playing on public servers. I was just disappointed and losing that desire of playing and the only way to avoid it was to refuge myself with those who played for fun and not to ruin the partner's game.
Everywhere in every game, we see great communities vanishing and being replaced by kids who play just for playing and not for the fun and glory of the game itself. Actually i think these kids have more fun annoying other people than actually playing. Today nobody gives video games it's true valor. They just became common and another way of spending time besides social networks.

Conclusion:
You can call me old school, you can call me whatever you want, but in my opinion we are losing something that was already important to us and we are doing nothing to stop it. Am I saying this because my mind changed, or is it the mind of the other a lot different from mine? Am I the only one to think like this? Who do we should blame, us (gamers) or the man with his desire of money and power? If you agree with me, please you are not alone, if you think differently don't let it stop you from commentating. But please, show me your point of view, show me your stories, show me if i am wrong or if i am right.

Regards from a long lost gamer.

i can probably bet that most people dont even read the instruction manuals that come with the game anymore. they just go straight to youtube or something to try and figure out how things are done. ahhhh i remember back in the day when the instruction manual was your friend....your guide...not these stupid walkthroughs and tips for cheating.

Well when the instruction manuels they give today are so small it's almost better that they didn't give it, it's hard not to go online.

Well when the instruction manuels they give today are so small it's almost better that they didn't give it, it's hard not to go online.

ArchonOver

Not all of them... Picked a random heavy game from my shelf and it had 44 pages. (The game was Dragon Age: Origins)

Ehh.....I have been hearing this argument since the NES days, something is always wrong with gaming blah blah blah. Maybe its just personal for you. I however think this is the best generation ever and would never trade the longer games,mature themes,developed storylines and moral choices/sandbox play for ramped up difficulty,insanley hard bosses and lack of saves that only served to cover up how little there really was in old school games. Just my opinion. mattykovax

I think gamers these days think that if something is in a game I should be able toget pastit. It is there, so it should be beatable because it is a game. They don't think that they have to try, they think they just have to do what they have been doing the entire game and think that doing one thing is going to get them through, and in most games these days, it does.

Games are like a race. You have to complete the race, but there is someone else in the race too who is trying to beat you. Games used to be something you have to beat to complete. Today, most games are just races without an opponent. You just have to complete it and not get bored. There is nothing you are tying to beat. You just have to go through it. And when you are in a race without an opponent, it is no longer a race is it. Games are going the same way.

Hey, not all walkthroughs are bad. I used a wikia on demons souls for special items, and info about how world/chracter tendency worked, especially online. I found info on forums on how to beat the dragon god. I looked up flameluker help but it was all shoot arrows at it and stuff, although it did give good advice to roll backwards and not to the side.The flamelurker I meleed to death though, 4 hours of torture, ha! And after that I was really in no mood to waste time on the dragon god. I read an article on demons souls and it reveals that you had to use arrows on the armor spider and when I went in with arrows a nice fellow left a message on the flooron where to stand. And for old king allant they all told me what I already knew, some recommended some poisonmagic thing but I didn't want to use glitches. And also help with the dragons and how to help certain npc's.

And for onimusha the game lied to me and I wasted 2 hours trying to work towards a solution that the game told me to do but really lied to me about. Tell me to put the crest in thecenter and then mean the bottom center? I looked on youtube just to see how the puzzle was supossed to look, I still did it on my own after, I just didn't know how the puzzle was supossed to look after wasting my time getting the crest to the center after 2 hours of working on a paper replica I made on my floor.

i can probably bet that most people dont even read the instruction manuals that come with the game anymore. they just go straight to youtube or something to try and figure out how things are done. ahhhh i remember back in the day when the instruction manual was your friend....your guide...not these stupid walkthroughs and tips for cheating.

EvilEightBallz

I am still young, damn I am 15 years old...You can call me old schooltjricardo089

Have you played Demon's Souls.

Have you played Demon's Souls.

lasseeb

This generation, these games are The Exception, not The Rule.

In the NES, SNES, & Genesis days, many, many games were difficult, at least until you figured them out (much like Demon's Souls, actually). The only things that make most games difficult this generation are control schemes, and that's only because people are to impatient to play through the tutorial that's included at the beginning of most games these days. Watching kids try to skip all the important stuff at the beginning only to have them complain that they don't know how to play five minutes later drives me absolutely nuts.

I fear where gaming is headed, too, but moreso for this new emphasis on motion controls and gamers' unwillingness to look at new franchises and instead slapping their money down on the next Call of Duty, Zelda, or Grand Theft Auto. Not that I care what other people play, its just that eventually no game publisher is going to green-light any projects that may actually bring something new to the table.

Ehh.....I have been hearing this argument since the NES days, something is always wrong with gaming blah blah blah. Maybe its just personal for you. I however think this is the best generation ever and would never trade the longer games,mature themes,developed storylines and moral choices/sandbox play for ramped up difficulty,insanley hard bosses and lack of saves that only served to cover up how little there really was in old school games. Just my opinion. mattykovax

I would have to agree. As a gamer for over 20 years, I'm quite satisfied with the current gaming generation.

While it's true that games tend to be easier to complete nowadays, you do have the option to increase the difficulty. If you want to be forced to play a game that only has one difficulty, which is stuck on hard, then you don't have many options (Demon's Souls comes to mind).

Edit: Demon's Souls ninja'd...

Quite honestly, I like my games on the easier side. I like feeling at least slightly overpowered compared to my enemies. I get my sense of fulfillment from a good story, cool graphics, and great gameplay. Too much difficulty can just keep you from progressing, and that can get frustrating. I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this way. Developers know this, and they'll go where the money is.

I don't care how good a game is; if it's too hard, I just won't buy it. I don't enjoy having to fight a boss 5 times before I can finally overcome it. Frankly, anything more than twice is too much. If you want difficulty, buy a game like Demon's Souls, Metroid Prime, or Ninja Gaiden. Or...just set your game on hard mode. As for a sense of accomplishment from overcoming a challenge...I can get that from real life.

[QUOTE="ArchonOver"]

Well when the instruction manuels they give today are so small it's almost better that they didn't give it, it's hard not to go online.

tjricardo089

Not all of them... Picked a random heavy game from my shelf and it had 44 pages. (The game was Dragon Age: Origins)

44 pages is still small. RPGs like Fallout 2 had around 160 pages, hell, even original WoW had around 200 pages.

Most games back then were that hard because they had bad control shemes and they were extremly short. With the arcade feeling and the difficulty they tried to make it last longer, but most of these games could be completed within hours. I don't see the problems with games that are accessable and acually offer enough content to keep me entertained without seeing the same stage everytime I want to play said game :S I don't see a problem in the difficulty, most games have adifficulty setting and if you play online against others you have the highest difficulty possible :S I don't see how other guys using walkthroughs is a problem for you since it doesn't affect you, but if somebody wants to use them, fine for them. It's not like the old days didn't have guides or cheats to make our lives easier. I guess in the end it depends wheter you play to have fun and relax or if you play for the challenge... in the second case you should play online

[QUOTE="tjricardo089"]I am still young, damn I am 15 years old...You can call me old schoolGAMESHARQ

lol I wondered if I was the only one that noticed that. I have a hard time taking anybody seriously when I hear "15 years old" then listen to their story about how they miss waking up early in the morning to spend all day/weekend trying to beat a boss.

Sorry, some people have lives and can't go on a straight 36 hour gaming binge. Especially to beat a game whose difficulty is based on bad design.

[QUOTE="tjricardo089"]I am still young, damn I am 15 years old...You can call me old schoolGAMESHARQ

Age has nothing to do with being "old school". Old school is a mentality, a way of thinking and looking at the state of gaming. For him to acknowledge that gaming is changing, and it is not for the better, is to be commended in this day.

It is true that gamers today are a spoiled bunch. Everything is handed to them, everything explained to them, and what should account for challenge is hobbled by access to the internet. I cannot look down on this because it is what the internet was designed for, but the simple fact remains gamers today do not care to use their own heads. Force them to think for even a second on how to solve something, and most will flock to the internet after failing just once. Heck, some don't even think at all, and just play with an FAQ set as their wallpaper.

I admit I have also done this, fallen back on FAQs and the internet to get me through games. However, it is not from a lack of effort on my part. With time comes responsibility, and I do not have the time anymore to waste on solving some of gaming's more complex challenges, or grinding for hours on end to accomplish the final task in an RPG. I want to see the games I have piled up finished at least once. That isn't to say I don't still indulge in a grind or two here and there. My last such pleasure was Dragon Quest IX, the game that rekindled my love for the JRPG.

I applaud tjrlcardo089. Not many gamers that think like us care anymore about the rest of the community to voice our opinions like this. And maybe, that's just another way we are inadvertently hurting the very industry we wish to see restored.

Whoever says it's nostalgia is wrong. I just played the DMC series a few years ago and it instantly became my favorite series ever. Now I am almost done with ninja gaiden and I can honestly say that this game was awesome. These games feel like someone actually cared when they put them together. There are only afew these days that feel that way. Uncharted, Bioshock, Gears of War, and some japenese games. The rest are just there to make money by not being a good game, but you can tell that they are just there to make money without passion (you could see this in the second gears and second bioshock).

Whoever says it's nostalgia is wrong. I just played the DMC series a few years ago and it instantly became my favorite series ever. Now I am almost done with ninja gaiden and I can honestly say that this game was awesome. These games feel like someone actually cared when they put them together. There are only afew these days that feel that way. Uncharted, Bioshock, Gears of War, and some japenese games. The rest are just there to make money by not being a good game, but you can tell that they are just there to make money without passion (you could see this in the second gears and second bioshock).

Hatiko

Uncharted 2 sucks.

[QUOTE="Hatiko"]

Whoever says it's nostalgia is wrong. I just played the DMC series a few years ago and it instantly became my favorite series ever. Now I am almost done with ninja gaiden and I can honestly say that this game was awesome. These games feel like someone actually cared when they put them together. There are only afew these days that feel that way. Uncharted, Bioshock, Gears of War, and some japenese games. The rest are just there to make money by not being a good game, but you can tell that they are just there to make money without passion (you could see this in the second gears and second bioshock).

Greyfeld

Uncharted 2 sucks.

I'm sorry, but it has the best graphics on consoles, has superd storytelling, pacing is excellent, chracters and voice acting are movie worthy, the moments in the game rival that of the mw games, and to top it all off it took the thrid person formula, and they didn't change anything or try to do something new, but they took it and perfected it and made it work like magic.

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]

[QUOTE="Hatiko"]

Whoever says it's nostalgia is wrong. I just played the DMC series a few years ago and it instantly became my favorite series ever. Now I am almost done with ninja gaiden and I can honestly say that this game was awesome. These games feel like someone actually cared when they put them together. There are only afew these days that feel that way. Uncharted, Bioshock, Gears of War, and some japenese games. The rest are just there to make money by not being a good game, but you can tell that they are just there to make money without passion (you could see this in the second gears and second bioshock).

Hatiko

Uncharted 2 sucks.

I'm sorry, but it has the best graphics on consoles, has superd storytelling, pacing is excellent, chracters and voice acting are movie worthy, the moments in the game rival that of the mw games, and to top it all off it took the thrid person formula, and they didn't change anything or try to do something new, but they took it and perfected it and made it work like magic.

Congratulations, they took everything that would have been present in a B-rated movie and implimented it in a video game with mediocre shooting controls and horrendous platforming segments.

The only thing that made UC2 worth playing was listening to Drake's sarcastic quips.

[QUOTE="Hatiko"]

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]

Uncharted 2 sucks.

Greyfeld

I'm sorry, but it has the best graphics on consoles, has superd storytelling, pacing is excellent, chracters and voice acting are movie worthy, the moments in the game rival that of the mw games, and to top it all off it took the thrid person formula, and they didn't change anything or try to do something new, but they took it and perfected it and made it work like magic.

Congratulations, they took everything that would have been present in a B-rated movie and implimented it in a video game with mediocre shooting controls and horrendous platforming segments.

The only thing that made UC2 worth playing was listening to Drake's sarcastic quips.

Ha, you say B-rated like it's a bad thing. Yes, they did use alot of cliches and such and the story wasn't great, but the way it was presented was alot better than many games can do. And the shooting was fine. IDK where you are getting this from.

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]

[QUOTE="Hatiko"]

I'm sorry, but it has the best graphics on consoles, has superd storytelling, pacing is excellent, chracters and voice acting are movie worthy, the moments in the game rival that of the mw games, and to top it all off it took the thrid person formula, and they didn't change anything or try to do something new, but they took it and perfected it and made it work like magic.

Hatiko

Congratulations, they took everything that would have been present in a B-rated movie and implimented it in a video game with mediocre shooting controls and horrendous platforming segments.

The only thing that made UC2 worth playing was listening to Drake's sarcastic quips.

Ha, you say B-rated like it's a bad thing. Yes, they did use alot of cliches and such and the story wasn't great, but the way it was presented was alot better than many games can do. And the shooting was fine. IDK where you are getting this from.

Like I said. Mediocre. It did nothing new, it did nothing interesting. You could replace Drake Fortune with Laura Croft and nobody would have known the difference. If you enjoyed it, that's fine. I didn't.

If I wanted to spend hours on platforming, broken up with the occasional combat segment, I'd play a game that actually did it right. Like Assassin's Creed.

The beast Nostalgia roams the land once more, bellowing for its tribute. Only a virgin sacrifice can end the horror. Anyone?

[QUOTE="GAMESHARQ"][QUOTE="tjricardo089"]I am still young, damn I am 15 years old...You can call me old schoolmmmwksil

Age has nothing to do with being "old school". Old school is a mentality, a way of thinking and looking at the state of gaming. For him to acknowledge that gaming is changing, and it is not for the better, is to be commended in this day.

It is true that gamers today are a spoiled bunch. Everything is handed to them, everything explained to them, and what should account for challenge is hobbled by access to the internet. I cannot look down on this because it is what the internet was designed for, but the simple fact remains gamers today do not care to use their own heads. Force them to think for even a second on how to solve something, and most will flock to the internet after failing just once. Heck, some don't even think at all, and just play with an FAQ set as their wallpaper.

I admit I have also done this, fallen back on FAQs and the internet to get me through games. However, it is not from a lack of effort on my part. With time comes responsibility, and I do not have the time anymore to waste on solving some of gaming's more complex challenges, or grinding for hours on end to accomplish the final task in an RPG. I want to see the games I have piled up finished at least once. That isn't to say I don't still indulge in a grind or two here and there. My last such pleasure was Dragon Quest IX, the game that rekindled my love for the JRPG.

I applaud tjrlcardo089. Not many gamers that think like us care anymore about the rest of the community to voice our opinions like this. And maybe, that's just another way we are inadvertently hurting the very industry we wish to see restored.

ROFL at people considering the old school days of gaming the "golden age" of gaming.

Yes, there were many great games made back in the day. I recognize that, but unlike many overly nolstalgic gaming hipsters I also recognize the piles of crap made back on previous systems as well. It seems to me that when people compare past generations to today they only look at the great games of their childhood while only looking at the terrible games of today, while mostly ignoring the crap games back in their childhood and mostly ignoring the great games of today. Honestly it's no different now than it was then. back in the day there were certainy many great games, but there were still a massive amount of crap as well. Same thing with today.

Seriously, Watch the goddamn AVGN, where he tears apart s***ty old-school games, and he's had over 100 episodes already mostly about ranting on horrible retro games. And I'm sure he's only scratched the surface thus far. As of now he's really only done mostly NES games within these 100 episodes to top it off.

ROFL at people considering the old school days of gaming the "golden age" of gaming.

Yes, there were many great games made back in the day. I recognize that, but unlike many overly nolstalgic gaming hipsters I also recognize the piles of crap made back on previous systems as well. It seems to me that when people compare past generations to today they only look at the great games of their childhood while only looking at the terrible games of today, while mostly ignoring the crap games back in their childhood and mostly ignoring the great games of today. Honestly it's no different now than it was then. back in the day there were certainy many great games, but there were still a massive amount of crap as well. Same thing with today.

Seriously, Watch the goddamn AVGN, where he tears apart s***ty old-school games, and he's had over 100 episodes already mostly about ranting on horrible retro games. And I'm sure he's only scratched the surface thus far. As of now he's really only done mostly NES games within these 100 episodes to top it off.

DJ-Lafleur

You're right about this. There's a lot of nostalgia going on. I mean let's be honest here: in the NES era and before then, hardware was too limited and most games sucked. There were a few timeless gems, but that's it.

SNES/Genesis produced a ton of high quality 2D games, but IMO the Indie scene is now matching (if not surpassing) them in quality.

The PSone/N64/Saturn era was total garbage by today's standard. Few games from that era are at all playable these days; the hardware was just not ready for 3D. The Saturn was by far my favorite of the 3 because of its 2D arcade ports, but overall there isn't much from that era that you can still play today.

1998-2005 was the real golden age of gaming. That's where almost every genre got its best games. In fact, we're still playing sequels to these games (which have been bastardized, simplified and dumbed-down). It was the sweet spot where the hardware was good enough to produce quality 3D games and the developing costs were low enough for the devs to have some creative freedom.

Now we're in the "huge budget games" era, where publishers have 100% of the decision power and are targeting games to two very specific audiences: you've got the grey and brown shooters aimed at 13-25 year old males and you've got the "casual" games. There are still a few gems every now and then, but a lot less than last gen. Taking risks is just too expensive these days. Thankfully it coincides with the rise of indie gaming, which is now driving the innovation/creativity part of gaming.

i can probably bet that most people dont even read the instruction manuals that come with the game anymore. they just go straight to youtube or something to try and figure out how things are done. ahhhh i remember back in the day when the instruction manual was your friend....your guide...not these stupid walkthroughs and tips for cheating.

EvilEightBallz

Gotta love Instruction Booklets :)

*sigh*

ROFL at people considering the old school days of gaming the "golden age" of gaming.

Yes, there were many great games made back in the day. I recognize that, but unlike many overly nolstalgic gaming hipsters I also recognize the piles of crap made back on previous systems as well. It seems to me that when people compare past generations to today they only look at the great games of their childhood while only looking at the terrible games of today, while mostly ignoring the crap games back in their childhood and mostly ignoring the great games of today. Honestly it's no different now than it was then. back in the day there were certainy many great games, but there were still a massive amount of crap as well. Same thing with today.

Seriously, Watch the goddamn AVGN, where he tears apart s***ty old-school games, and he's had over 100 episodes already mostly about ranting on horrible retro games. And I'm sure he's only scratched the surface thus far. As of now he's really only done mostly NES games within these 100 episodes to top it off.

DJ-Lafleur

People who consider those days the "golden age" don't mean to say there were no bad games made. Far from it, and people like AVGN are here to remind us all that nostalgia is a dangerous thing. However, the golden age refers not only to the best games, but the best attitudes and mentality amongst the populace. And it is no secret that thanks to the anonymity granted by the internet, gamers have become far nastier today than ever before. Again, this doesn't mean there were no pricks back then, just that they were in the minority, and the lack of internet prevented more from popping up.

Like ReddestSkies said, perhaps the later end of the 5th generation (PSOne, N64, Saturn) and the entirety of the 6th (PS2, GC, Xbox) was indeed the high point. Games were most creative in this timeframe, developers took plenty of risk to create new IPs and the like. Gamers on the whole were a happy bunch that now had a means of staying in close contact amongst themselves. System Wars were still in play, even during this time, but it wasn't as rampant and as big a deciding factor in choice as it is today.

Indie Developers, and some of the big name companies still operate with plenty of risk to try new things. Most have just fallen into the rehash slump. I never once said this generation didn't have its gems (I personally have found games this generation to be amongst my favorite, both sequels of existing franchises and new games altogether), but I do admit I still prefer to go back in time and play the games of yesteryear.

Gaming isn't going to "end" anytime soon. Perhaps we've just reached a low point in the life of this form of entertainment. And yet even at this low point, more than enough worthwhile games are still being released. And that should make us all happy.

[QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

ROFL at people considering the old school days of gaming the "golden age" of gaming.

Yes, there were many great games made back in the day. I recognize that, but unlike many overly nolstalgic gaming hipsters I also recognize the piles of crap made back on previous systems as well. It seems to me that when people compare past generations to today they only look at the great games of their childhood while only looking at the terrible games of today, while mostly ignoring the crap games back in their childhood and mostly ignoring the great games of today. Honestly it's no different now than it was then. back in the day there were certainy many great games, but there were still a massive amount of crap as well. Same thing with today.

Seriously, Watch the goddamn AVGN, where he tears apart s***ty old-school games, and he's had over 100 episodes already mostly about ranting on horrible retro games. And I'm sure he's only scratched the surface thus far. As of now he's really only done mostly NES games within these 100 episodes to top it off.

mmmwksil

People who consider those days the "golden age" don't mean to say there were no bad games made. Far from it, and people like AVGN are here to remind us all that nostalgia is a dangerous thing. However, the golden age refers not only to the best games, but the best attitudes and mentality amongst the populace. And it is no secret that thanks to the anonymity granted by the internet, gamers have become far nastier today than ever before. Again, this doesn't mean there were no pricks back then, just that they were in the minority, and the lack of internet prevented more from popping up.

Like ReddestSkies said, perhaps the later end of the 5th generation (PSOne, N64, Saturn) and the entirety of the 6th (PS2, GC, Xbox) was indeed the high point. Games were most creative in this timeframe, developers took plenty of risk to create new IPs and the like. Gamers on the whole were a happy bunch that now had a means of staying in close contact amongst themselves. System Wars were still in play, even during this time, but it wasn't as rampant and as big a deciding factor in choice as it is today.

Indie Developers, and some of the big name companies still operate with plenty of risk to try new things. Most have just fallen into the rehash slump. I never once said this generation didn't have its gems (I personally have found games this generation to be amongst my favorite, both sequels of existing franchises and new games altogether), but I do admit I still prefer to go back in time and play the games of yesteryear.

Gaming isn't going to "end" anytime soon. Perhaps we've just reached a low point in the life of this form of entertainment. And yet even at this low point, more than enough worthwhile games are still being released. And that should make us all happy.

I would argue that gamer attitudes haven't changed over the years, so much as there have simply been more avenues for them to be heard.

I too dislike where gaming is headed, but for different reasons. I'm worried that motion controlswill soon be forced on us, regardless of preferred platform, if only so that theres appeal for the dumbass casuals.

Considering that the majority of Microsoft's E3 revolved around that Kinect BS, I'm not optimistic.

I too dislike where gaming is headed, but for different reasons. I'm worried that motion controlswill soon be forced on us, regardless of preferred platform, if only so that theres appeal for the dumbass casuals.

Considering that the majority of Microsoft's E3 revolved around that Kinect BS, I'm not optimistic.

TJORLY

I don't understand why people hate motion controls so much. Gamepads as we know them are versatile, but ultimately terrible at almost every genre. They don't have a lot of buttons, and they don't allow for precise movements or aiming. If anything, people should be embracing the fact that companies are trying to find new ways to control games.

The PC has had motion controls for decades. It's called the "mouse". It's been "forced" on us in a lot of genres, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's actually a wonderful way to control games.

The PC has had motion controls for decades. It's called the "mouse". It's been "forced" on us in a lot of genres, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's actually a wonderful way to control games.

ReddestSkies

Do you see console creators implementing things on par with a mouse though? All they've made are pathetic pieces of crap that force you to flail your arms around like a spastic chimp.

Effective motion controls (such as with a mouse) dont push consoles to the casual tards. They want to flail their arms around like idiots, so this is the kind of motion control we're going to get for consoles.

ROFL at people considering the old school days of gaming the "golden age" of gaming.

Yes, there were many great games made back in the day. I recognize that, but unlike many overly nolstalgic gaming hipsters I also recognize the piles of crap made back on previous systems as well. It seems to me that when people compare past generations to today they only look at the great games of their childhood while only looking at the terrible games of today, while mostly ignoring the crap games back in their childhood and mostly ignoring the great games of today. Honestly it's no different now than it was then. back in the day there were certainy many great games, but there were still a massive amount of crap as well. Same thing with today.

Seriously, Watch the goddamn AVGN, where he tears apart s***ty old-school games, and he's had over 100 episodes already mostly about ranting on horrible retro games. And I'm sure he's only scratched the surface thus far. As of now he's really only done mostly NES games within these 100 episodes to top it off.

DJ-Lafleur

First off you shouldn't take God's name in vain (I understand freedom of speech and and all that, but I'm offended so I want to say something about it). Second I acknowledge the fact that YES there were some pretty horrible games during that era, but there are a lot of great ones too just as it is today (not sure why you assume I don't think about these things, but oh well).

I'll tell you what: there are a lot of games made back then that are better than what's being made today. Nostalgia? sure! why not? quality? you bet and a lot of it back then. A game that can still be considered cl*ssic and legendary after 10, 15, or 20 years and be BETTER thansome of thegamesput out today is excellent in my book. What else do you think I would say?!

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

[QUOTE="DJ-Lafleur"]

ROFL at people considering the old school days of gaming the "golden age" of gaming.

Yes, there were many great games made back in the day. I recognize that, but unlike many overly nolstalgic gaming hipsters I also recognize the piles of crap made back on previous systems as well. It seems to me that when people compare past generations to today they only look at the great games of their childhood while only looking at the terrible games of today, while mostly ignoring the crap games back in their childhood and mostly ignoring the great games of today. Honestly it's no different now than it was then. back in the day there were certainy many great games, but there were still a massive amount of crap as well. Same thing with today.

Seriously, Watch the goddamn AVGN, where he tears apart s***ty old-school games, and he's had over 100 episodes already mostly about ranting on horrible retro games. And I'm sure he's only scratched the surface thus far. As of now he's really only done mostly NES games within these 100 episodes to top it off.

Greyfeld

People who consider those days the "golden age" don't mean to say there were no bad games made. Far from it, and people like AVGN are here to remind us all that nostalgia is a dangerous thing. However, the golden age refers not only to the best games, but the best attitudes and mentality amongst the populace. And it is no secret that thanks to the anonymity granted by the internet, gamers have become far nastier today than ever before. Again, this doesn't mean there were no pricks back then, just that they were in the minority, and the lack of internet prevented more from popping up.

Like ReddestSkies said, perhaps the later end of the 5th generation (PSOne, N64, Saturn) and the entirety of the 6th (PS2, GC, Xbox) was indeed the high point. Games were most creative in this timeframe, developers took plenty of risk to create new IPs and the like. Gamers on the whole were a happy bunch that now had a means of staying in close contact amongst themselves. System Wars were still in play, even during this time, but it wasn't as rampant and as big a deciding factor in choice as it is today.

Indie Developers, and some of the big name companies still operate with plenty of risk to try new things. Most have just fallen into the rehash slump. I never once said this generation didn't have its gems (I personally have found games this generation to be amongst my favorite, both sequels of existing franchises and new games altogether), but I do admit I still prefer to go back in time and play the games of yesteryear.

Gaming isn't going to "end" anytime soon. Perhaps we've just reached a low point in the life of this form of entertainment. And yet even at this low point, more than enough worthwhile games are still being released. And that should make us all happy.

I would argue that gamer attitudes haven't changed over the years, so much as there have simply been more avenues for them to be heard.

Some truth in that, but I always figured when gamers had to face each other in person, there was more civility between them. You run the risk of physical harm when you're disrespectful in person, after all.

I don't understand why people hate motion controls so much. Gamepads as we know them are versatile, but ultimately terrible at almost every genre. They don't have a lot of buttons, and they don't allow for precise movements or aiming. If anything, people should be embracing the fact that companies are trying to find new ways to control games.

The PC has had motion controls for decades. It's called the "mouse". It's been "forced" on us in a lot of genres, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's actually a wonderful way to control games.

ReddestSkies

Game makers have not shown motion control is a improve new way to control games. If anything they shown that motion control give the player even less control.

We move out fiingers on controls so it is motion control.

I am mainly a PC gamer so my statement will be colored to that perspective.

I haven't liked the condition of the gaming industry or its direction for some time.

The strategy guides, FAQs, walkthroughs are part of it. I can still remember watching people buy the stategy guide at the same time as the game and wonder why?. Time isn't a good excuse. No one says you have to finish it in a week. If you can only play a few hours a week, fine. Take notes on what is going on, make use of the save game system, do something other than "please tell me what to do." Doesn't that lower the amount of fun the game is? It did for me.

Gamer mentality is a very big part of it. Valve walked all over all of us with Half-Life 2's release and we rewarded them for it. Even now you can find plenty of people who practically worship them. Also, I've found that the average MMO community seems to age faster then the game. Take a look at World of Warcraft. People are a lot less helpful and friendly as they were when I first started back near its release. The battlegrounds are nothing but an ocean of piss and bile. Heroic dungeons are only slightly better. There have been similar complaints about the online side of action games too.

Then there are the games. Over the last 20 years this industry has chosen to release one game after another unfinished or so broken that not even the most technically gifted members of the community can get it to run. That weak excuse of "its the hardware and software configurations" only covers part of it. Am I wrong in thinking that the main reason a lot of theses developers have a job is gamer apathy? How else can you explain why we haven't banded together and sued. I've never heard of any other industry getting away with this kind of thing.

To my fellow PC gamers: don't like ports do you? Tough. Every time you or one of the nit wit critics embraced to "you must upgrade to play" bs you helped push more people away from the pc to the console. This helped create more possiblities for ports. The high cost of PCs have been our biggest negative forever. Thanks for helping to drive that home.

I think a lot of it has to do with stagnation. Most shooters boils down to - rambo jr. vs. everyone. Most RPG's - Save the world. You can do this with all genres. And yet there have been titles that show other formulas work. Planescape Torment, Thief, Deus Ex, all showed you can do alot more than the standard formula and be successful. I wish there were more.

You're right about this. There's a lot of nostalgia going on. I mean let's be honest here: in the NES era and before then, hardware was too limited and most games sucked. There were a few timeless gems, but that's it.

SNES/Genesis produced a ton of high quality 2D games, but IMO the Indie scene is now matching (if not surpassing) them in quality.

The PSone/N64/Saturn era was total garbage by today's standard. Few games from that era are at all playable these days; the hardware was just not ready for 3D. The Saturn was by far my favorite of the 3 because of its 2D arcade ports, but overall there isn't much from that era that you can still play today.

1998-2005 was the real golden age of gaming. That's where almost every genre got its best games. In fact, we're still playing sequels to these games (which have been bastardized, simplified and dumbed-down). It was the sweet spot where the hardware was good enough to produce quality 3D games and the developing costs were low enough for the devs to have some creative freedom.

Now we're in the "huge budget games" era, where publishers have 100% of the decision power and are targeting games to two very specific audiences: you've got the grey and brown shooters aimed at 13-25 year old males and you've got the "casual" games. There are still a few gems every now and then, but a lot less than last gen. Taking risks is just too expensive these days. Thankfully it coincides with the rise of indie gaming, which is now driving the innovation/creativity part of gaming.

So what if there some nostalgia going on? am I supposed to feel a different emotion when I talk about my favoriteera with video games? the NES era has a lot of great games and other other hand it has games I don't care to play. Some pretty important games happened on that system and a lot of the stuff we wouldn't have seen if it weren't for those particular games. I disagree about the PS1, N64, or Saturn being "total garbage" by today's standard. If anything I'd much rather play games from any of those systems (or the NES, SNES, or Sega Genesis) than some of the stuff that's being created today (emphasis on "some" because there are a lot of games that are very good). Not much that I can't play today? honestly I think you need to take a look at the libraries one more time;)

Your golden age of gaming and my golden age of gaming differ which is fine. For some people it's then and for some people it's now. I know for the amount of experiences, fun, money, and time I had with those particular systems and the quality of games (I of course refer to the NES/SNES/Sega Genesis era) it can't be beat. I do agree that we've entered the big budget (more flash and less sizzle at times) and the developers have hit the pulse on what people want (or in some cases what they think we want, but actually don't in my case). Personally, I'm excited about the indie gaming scene because a lot of the titles being made there remind me of why I love video games in the first place and take me back to those times when you didn't need million dollar budgets, flashy graphics, or rehash after rehash to get a gamer's attention. It's expensive and risky? absolutely! which is why I applaud those games that take a chance on doing something different instead of playing it safe (especially in this gen).

There are plenty of games that dont hold your hand and give you too many checkpoints.

• Mount and Blade (You start this game slow, weak, poor, and the only troops available are incompetant ones who cant even hold on their own against common bandits, even as you get stronger you can get instakilled by an arrow But the game never feels cheap however)
• Little Kings Story (tyrant mode has you and your men starting with a mere hit point, and you can never increase your health cap during the game)
• Demons Souls (Very easy, but only gives you checkpoints after beating bosses, doesnt feature a lot of handholding either)
• Rune Factory (Playing frontier atm, and one of the bosses there 2 shot me)
• Kings Bounty: The Legend
• Dungeons of Dredmor
• Fire Emblem

[QUOTE="TJORLY"]

I too dislike where gaming is headed, but for different reasons. I'm worried that motion controlswill soon be forced on us, regardless of preferred platform, if only so that theres appeal for the dumbass casuals.

Considering that the majority of Microsoft's E3 revolved around that Kinect BS, I'm not optimistic.

ReddestSkies

I don't understand why people hate motion controls so much. Gamepads as we know them are versatile, but ultimately terrible at almost every genre. They don't have a lot of buttons, and they don't allow for precise movements or aiming. If anything, people should be embracing the fact that companies are trying to find new ways to control games.

The PC has had motion controls for decades. It's called the "mouse". It's been "forced" on us in a lot of genres, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's actually a wonderful way to control games.

I think the saying "can't teach an old dog new tricks" applies to me when it comes to this whole motion control thing. I don't hate it andI say if you love it then more power to you. I like my standard controller and that's it. The last thing I think about when I play video games is getting up and being physically active. If I wanted to do allthat I'd hit the gym:P and no I don't want to do that either (too busy playing video games the way "I" like to play them-Doritos, Mountain Dew, wash hands to avoid getting controller allNacho Cheese/Cool Ranch E, and enjoyinghours of gaming).;)

[QUOTE="Greyfeld"]

[QUOTE="mmmwksil"]

People who consider those days the "golden age" don't mean to say there were no bad games made. Far from it, and people like AVGN are here to remind us all that nostalgia is a dangerous thing. However, the golden age refers not only to the best games, but the best attitudes and mentality amongst the populace. And it is no secret that thanks to the anonymity granted by the internet, gamers have become far nastier today than ever before. Again, this doesn't mean there were no pricks back then, just that they were in the minority, and the lack of internet prevented more from popping up.

Like ReddestSkies said, perhaps the later end of the 5th generation (PSOne, N64, Saturn) and the entirety of the 6th (PS2, GC, Xbox) was indeed the high point. Games were most creative in this timeframe, developers took plenty of risk to create new IPs and the like. Gamers on the whole were a happy bunch that now had a means of staying in close contact amongst themselves. System Wars were still in play, even during this time, but it wasn't as rampant and as big a deciding factor in choice as it is today.

Indie Developers, and some of the big name companies still operate with plenty of risk to try new things. Most have just fallen into the rehash slump. I never once said this generation didn't have its gems (I personally have found games this generation to be amongst my favorite, both sequels of existing franchises and new games altogether), but I do admit I still prefer to go back in time and play the games of yesteryear.

Gaming isn't going to "end" anytime soon. Perhaps we've just reached a low point in the life of this form of entertainment. And yet even at this low point, more than enough worthwhile games are still being released. And that should make us all happy.

mmmwksil

I would argue that gamer attitudes haven't changed over the years, so much as there have simply been more avenues for them to be heard.

Some truth in that, but I always figured when gamers had to face each other in person, there was more civility between them. You run the risk of physical harm when you're disrespectful in person, after all.

You'd be surprised. I've met gamers in person who were just as rude as the trash you find online. Pretty much impossible to have a civil conversation with them.

Dune 2000. I played last mission like 3 days without pause because you couldnt save game in half of mission. And in that game last mission you fighting against HUGE ENOURMES brutal UI. I made so huge army taht was even big for taht times. When i rush enemy base they just wipe out my Units (even i used tactics with special weapons of Harkonens.)If i manage to destroy their "Depot , HQ Base (forgot name)" they still manage to build new one and to start building again + if you remember how brutal enemy waves were! Then Contra , Chrono Soldier , and many many more games today even if brain washed or we are too lazy but how many of you (PC , MMO gamers) would play solo game which is acctually annoyingly hard?

Hey

I never was one for struggling much with games. I would never go and find a guide just like that, though. Recently some games that came out had really interesting storylines (like the metal gear or gears of war series). I'm heavy into the storyline and for me, struggling with a game at some point ruins the experience of the story. I feel the same sense of accomplishment than any other person who beats a certain boss or a hard level or so, but my good vibrations come from the way the story is written and in the manner the elements of the story is put together to create panic or fear or any other emotion.

I don't know. It seems stupid to me that a game be made impossibly hard just to keep someone at it for a long time. If more time and effort were put into developing the story or adding features that make the game replayable, an insane difficulty would not be necessary. Of course, difficulty setting can always be ramped up, but this should be left to the discretion of the gamer. I want to play for fun and relaxation and struggling with a game, getting all frustrated and blood boiling does not seem to me like a relaxing experience. I want to get to the dramatic climax of the story.

Looking at the competitive world of gaming today, it makes sense that developers would spend more time on producing a stunning game if they have any chance of making it. So no sweat for me. I await every great game out there with eager anticipation and I know that it must certainly be better than the rest already out there.

If you're really bummed out, look to the future dude. Gaming is still very primitive. We sit in front of a screen with a controller of some sort in our hands. Imagine the days that virtual reality gaming becomes a reality. Try explaining in a guide to someone how to play a virtual reality fps or even an rpg. Imagine being the character in the game yourself and having to do everything in the game by yourself. Walking, running, crouching, fighting. And imagine having all your senses involved in gaming, evoking real emotions, like fear or guilt. Just think how gaming would involve then.

Do you still think we'll be able to write everything up in a guide? Explain to someone how not to be afraid or feel guilty. Explain to someone in a guide the exact moves to make when playing a game.

I can't say I don't like the way gaming is heading, however I do believe that gaming might be in a somewhat bad place right now. Just give it a couple of years. If I can say anything about you its that you'll probably be playing games for a long time still. By that time much of this will be out there.