IGN Article by Matt Casamassina - Nintendo is the laziest company

Harsh and striking criticism by Matt Casamassina who usually writes in favor toward Nintendo. He criticizes Nintendo being the laziest company, and also says that core fans don't care because first part Nintendo games still sell millions regardless if they're recycled or not.

Here's the article with important parts:

http://wii.ign.com/articles/105/1054621p1.html

Nintendo is Lazy and You Don't Care

by Matt Casamassina

In New Super Mario Bros. Wii's multiplayer mode, you can play as icons Mario, Luigi or two versions of sideshow character Toad. So when famed Nintendo designer and development leader Shigeru Miyamoto is asked prior to the game's release why Princess Peach wasn't included as a playable character instead, he pauses and says that it would've been nice, but that the physique of Toad more closely resembles that of Mario. "And if one of the four had a dress, we'd have to come up with a special programming to handle how the skirt is handled in gameplay," he jokes.

I know the legendary producer -- a man responsible for many of my favorite games across two decades -- is just kidding about Peach's dress, but it's the first part of his comment that strikes me as interesting and even a little disturbing. He just told a room full of reporters that the only reason gamers must play as multi-colored versions of Toad instead of Peach or other beloved Mushroom Kingdom characters is because Toad has the same body shape as Mario and it was simply easier for Nintendo to recycle him.

With all due respect to Miyamoto, a proven gaming genius and innovator, that's just lazy. Either that, or Nintendo has gone off the deep end in its dogged pursuit of the business bottom line. This is not a two-man garage developer which works on games after its kids go to bed. It's a multi-billion dollar corporation with thousands of employees, many of whom have helped shape the very industry as we know it. A cash behemoth with unrivaled game-making experience. That it might even ponder recycling a character for one its most beloved and lucrative franchises so that it might save time, money, or whatever, seems ludicrous. That it actually did so is unbelievable.

Wii exists today because Nintendo is brilliant, but also because the company saw rising development costs, time and resources and didn't want any part of it. Smart business move. But for players who do value cutting-edge graphics and audio -- there are millions of us, by the way; we're not a niche, as six million copies sold of Modern Warfare 2 in November show -- it's a slap in the face and a clear case of the bottom line taking precedence.

Wii is a more powerful GameCube. It won't play high-definition titles. Laughably, it won't even output in Dolby Digital surround sound -- a feat PlayStation 2 accomplished nine years ago -- because the hardware includes only a stereo component. Nintendo created a console that it could manufacture cheaply and sell at a reduced price, which is an honorable pursuit. The side effect to this, however, is that because Wii is incapable of competing technically with its competitors, players have granted Nintendo unofficial license to coast by with a wealth of games whose presentations journey backward and not forward in time; a generational reprieve from even trying.

We all praise Nintendo for returning gameplay and not graphical pop to the forefront. Since their conception, games have been designed to be fun first and everything else second. Nintendo seems to realize that more than any other developer in the world, which is why some of its presentational shortcomings are usually overshadowed by welcomed over-compensations in control and design. But make no mistake: Wii Sports is also the product of Nintendo's bottom line and, yes, even laziness to some degree. The developer could have achieved a similarly simple, accessible visual ****with considerably more detail, but it chose not to. Wii Sports dons a crisp, clean look, but is otherwise decidedly generic, static, and frankly, archaic. Nintendo spent less time, energy and money on the graphics because it had a winning hook to fall back on, which was of course the new motion controls. Why, though, should innovation come at the expense of presentation? Because it's easier and cheaper.

There's Wii Play. It doesn't host a single experience that isn't playable for free and probably better as an iPhone app. It's a collection of lazily constructed mini-games, some of which aren't even enjoyable -- a simple technical demo of the Wii remote. And Nintendo struck gold with the title because it packaged it with a controller. It is the best-selling "game" this generation. Don't even get me started on Wii Music, a game that was so easy that it not only nearly played itself, but one whose soundtrack utilized public domain songs (because they're free for Nintendo to license) and MIDI-****music (because it's easier and cheaper to produce than orchestrated songs). The bottom line might as well have had a logo on the box.

It gets worse. Imagine an entire series of games re-purposed with tacked on Wii controls. Requires minimal effort on Nintendo's part and it's easy money. Cue the New Play Control! games. Pikmin, Pikmin 2, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, Mario Power Tennis, and evenMetroid Prime 1 and 2 in worldwide territories. Some of these games -- like DK Jungle Beat and Mario Power Tennis -- are actually worse on Wii. In less than one year, Nintendo has shipped seven of these games, three of which it ported internally. In the same period, the company has developed only five new games for Wii: Animal Crossing, New Super Mario Bros. Wii, Wii Music, Wii Fit Plus and Wii Sports Resort.

And really, why should Nintendo try when its strategy not only pays off by the millions but goes largely unquestioned by the fans, some of whom vehemently defend the company's every move. I've heard all the excuses. The primitive graphics of the Wii Sports series are intentional and therefore it's all right. Sure, the characters are limbless, lack fluid animation, geometry and texturing, but the game is supposed to look simple. It's supposed to be accessible, not daunting. And hey, everything's really crisp and it runs at a great framerate. Give Nintendo a pass. And so what if New Super Mario Bros. Wii plays and looks like the DS title before it? Who cares if the game's graphics aren't dazzling? It's fun, isn't it? That's what matters.

It's ironic because it is precisely the hardcore Nintendo fan who is most influenced by the company's changed practices. With the rare exception -- a morsel of food for the starving -- we are not getting the titles we want because Nintendo has hit upon a winning formula, which is to make quicker, cost-efficient software, sit back and then reap the rewards. The expanded audience doesn't read every word about the next title in the Legend of Zelda franchise. It doesn't care if New Super Mario Bros. isn't as beautiful as it could and should be. We do. And yet many of us defend Nintendo even when its motives benefit the business, not the players. We celebrate its monthly sales victories and then we re-play Super Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, and Smash Bros. while we sift through Nintendo's cash-ins on the way to its next big thing.

IGN

Matt casamassina, I hate this guy. He basically "wants" hardcore games for the wii. Which he think are blood, gore, and fps. Reason why he gave that pathetic conduit game a 8.6. Which was a piss poor shooter. I would say most of those games are meant for a certain male demographic that is young. I would rather have games like platformers, etc. Instead. The new mickey game is a good example. But wii library is lacking because the lack of non-casual games. Not stuff like cod series which I find painfully boring.

Matt casamassina, I hate this guy. He basically "wants" hardcore games for the wii. Which he think are blood, gore, and fps. Reason why he gave that pathetic conduit game a 8.6. Which was a piss poor shooter. I would say most of those games are meant for a certain male demographic that is young. I would rather have games like platformers, etc. Instead. The new mickey game is a good example. But wii library is lacking because the lack of non-casual games. Not stuff like cod series which I find painfully boring.

nhh18

No offense, but I think you need to reread the article, clearly you missed the point entirely. Where in the article did Matt equate "hardcore" games as being "M" rated, much less bring that up?

His point was that Nintendo is getting a pass on flat-out lazy, second-rate game design and he laid out clear-cut examples of this. The points he makes are pretty dead-on.

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

Matt casamassina, I hate this guy. He basically "wants" hardcore games for the wii. Which he think are blood, gore, and fps. Reason why he gave that pathetic conduit game a 8.6. Which was a piss poor shooter. I would say most of those games are meant for a certain male demographic that is young. I would rather have games like platformers, etc. Instead. The new mickey game is a good example. But wii library is lacking because the lack of non-casual games. Not stuff like cod series which I find painfully boring.

MarcusAntonius

No offense, but I think you need to reread the article, clearly you missed the point entirely. Where in the article did Matt equate "hardcore" games as being "M" rated, much less bring that up?

His point was that Nintendo is getting a pass on flat-out lazy, second-rate game design and he laid out clear-cut examples of this. The points he makes are pretty dead-on.

[QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

Matt casamassina, I hate this guy. He basically "wants" hardcore games for the wii. Which he think are blood, gore, and fps. Reason why he gave that pathetic conduit game a 8.6. Which was a piss poor shooter. I would say most of those games are meant for a certain male demographic that is young. I would rather have games like platformers, etc. Instead. The new mickey game is a good example. But wii library is lacking because the lack of non-casual games. Not stuff like cod series which I find painfully boring.

ASK_Story

No offense, but I think you need to reread the article, clearly you missed the point entirely. Where in the article did Matt equate "hardcore" games as being "M" rated, much less bring that up?

His point was that Nintendo is getting a pass on flat-out lazy, second-rate game design and he laid out clear-cut examples of this. The points he makes are pretty dead-on.

I'd say he's a fan, not a fanatic. Nintendo realizes at this point that their IPs are critic-proof, they're only now producing their games as such. The Wii's marketshare has become a generational rout to the point that they no longer have to care.

[QUOTE="ASK_Story"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

No offense, but I think you need to reread the article, clearly you missed the point entirely. Where in the article did Matt equate "hardcore" games as being "M" rated, much less bring that up?

His point was that Nintendo is getting a pass on flat-out lazy, second-rate game design and he laid out clear-cut examples of this. The points he makes are pretty dead-on.

MarcusAntonius

I'd say he's a fan, not a fanatic. Nintendo realizes at this point that their IPs are critic-proof, they're only now producing their games as such. The Wii's marketshare has become a generational rout to the point that they no longer have to care.

He basically got offended by a joke, thought new super mario bros wii wasn't a high budget game because it wasn't hardcore game. And as a result we get a stupid article about how nintendo is lazy when they put most of its risk factor into not knowing whether the wii-mote will be successful and put weaker graphics as a result.

he is a complete and utter fanatic. He mentioned something like modern warfare 2 because it is a hardcore game. And downplays how much work was put into new super mario bros wii. The level design are bar none, the Q&A and polish of the levels are unmatched, and as a result it is one of the best platformers ever to be made. The game probably had a budget close to most next generation games, and is one of the prettier wii games. And I would also say it was one of the more original mario games they made. I felt like modern warfare 2 was done by the numbers game, and was insulted by that.

He basically got offended by a joke, thought new super mario bros wii wasn't a high budget game because it wasn't hardcore game. And as a result we get a stupid article about how nintendo is lazy when they put most of its risk factor into not knowing whether the wii-mote will be successful and put weaker graphics as a result.

nhh18

Well, New Super Mario Wiiis essentially a port of a three-year-old DS game. While they vastly improved it and made it superior in just about every way the bulk of the ground work had already been laid so I doubt the cost of production was all that high, at least when compared to mosthigh profile gamesout there.

As to the "unmatched" polish you allude to, bear in mind that polishing up a 2D game is considerably easier than debugging a 3D construct. Also, your praise of the levels seems a tad hyperbolic considering the entire endeavor follows the Mario template pretty closely. I'd argue Little Big Planet has plenty of levels that can match anything found in NSMBWII.

Nintendo has become an incredibly complacent company and their own output has slowed to a crawl. Most of the best software this year on the Wii has been either outside developers working in-house (Punch Out!) or third party efforts like Mad World, House of the Dead, Muramasa, etc. They haven't even approached releasing something like the quality of SMG and much of their strategy seems to revolve around recycling what works with very little innovation (i.e. Zelda, Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, etc.)

I've actually enjoyed the Wii's 2009 lineup quite a bit and NSMBWii is awesome but that doesn't change the fact that Nintendo really does seem to be resting comfortably on the gravy train without much effort. I think his points are valid and will probably lead to Nintendo's inevitable tumble from the top, even if that fall from grace is years away. They have always been an arrogant company and unfortunately arrogance often leads to laziness; the notion that brand alone can sustain mediocre products.

Somehow, I share his feelings. His points are dead-on.Jerell_rast

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

he is a complete and utter fanatic. He mentioned something like modern warfare 2 because it is a hardcore game. And downplays how much work was put into new super mario bros wii. The level design are bar none, the Q&A and polish of the levels are unmatched, and as a result it is one of the best platformers ever to be made. The game probably had a budget close to most next generation games, and is one of the prettier wii games. And I would also say it was one of the more original mario games they made. I felt like modern warfare 2 was done by the numbers game, and was insulted by that.

He basically got offended by a joke, thought new super mario bros wii wasn't a high budget game because it wasn't hardcore game. And as a result we get a stupid article about how nintendo is lazy when they put most of its risk factor into not knowing whether the wii-mote will be successful and put weaker graphics as a result.

Grammaton-Cleric

Well, New Super Mario Wiiis essentially a port of a three-year-old DS game. While they vastly improved it and made it superior in just about every way the bulk of the ground work had already been laid so I doubt the cost of production was all that high, at least when compared to mosthigh profile gamesout there.

As to the "unmatched" polish you allude to, bear in mind that polishing up a 2D game is considerably easier than debugging a 3D construct. Also, your praise of the levels seems a tad hyperbolic considering the entire endeavor follows the Mario template pretty closely. I'd argue Little Big Planet has plenty of levels that can match anything found in NSMBWII.

Nintendo has become an incredibly complacent company and their own output has slowed to a crawl. Most of the best software this year on the Wii has been either outside developers working in-house (Punch Out!) or third party efforts like Mad World, House of the Dead, Muramasa, etc. They haven't even approached releasing something like the quality of SMG and much of their strategy seems to revolve around recycling what works with very little innovation (i.e. Zelda, Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, etc.)

I've actually enjoyed the Wii's 2009 lineup quite a bit and NSMBWii is awesome but that doesn't change the fact that Nintendo really does seem to be resting comfortably on the gravy train without much effort. I think his points are valid and will probably lead to Nintendo's inevitable tumble from the top, even if that fall from grace is years away. They have always been an arrogant company and unfortunately arrogance often leads to laziness; the notion that brand alone can sustain mediocre products.

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

Well, New Super Mario Wiiis essentially a port of a three-year-old DS game. While they vastly improved it and made it superior in just about every way the bulk of the ground work had already been laid so I doubt the cost of production was all that high, at least when compared to mosthigh profile gamesout there.

As to the "unmatched" polish you allude to, bear in mind that polishing up a 2D game is considerably easier than debugging a 3D construct. Also, your praise of the levels seems a tad hyperbolic considering the entire endeavor follows the Mario template pretty closely. I'd argue Little Big Planet has plenty of levels that can match anything found in NSMBWII.

Nintendo has become an incredibly complacent company and their own output has slowed to a crawl. Most of the best software this year on the Wii has been either outside developers working in-house (Punch Out!) or third party efforts like Mad World, House of the Dead, Muramasa, etc. They haven't even approached releasing something like the quality of SMG and much of their strategy seems to revolve around recycling what works with very little innovation (i.e. Zelda, Smash Bros. Brawl, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, etc.)

I've actually enjoyed the Wii's 2009 lineup quite a bit and NSMBWii is awesome but that doesn't change the fact that Nintendo really does seem to be resting comfortably on the gravy train without much effort. I think his points are valid and will probably lead to Nintendo's inevitable tumble from the top, even if that fall from grace is years away. They have always been an arrogant company and unfortunately arrogance often leads to laziness; the notion that brand alone can sustain mediocre products.

dvader654

Well, I don't really see a way to argue his point. He is pretty much spot on.

Since SSBB what have we had? Not a whole lot. Not by Nintendo at least. 2008 was a rather bleak year for the Wii from a gaming standpoint. Aside from Mario Kart Wii(which is a love/hate relationship for some) there was really little to speak of. Remember what the big game was for holiday season from Nintendo in 2008? Animal Crossing: City Folk. That should be a hint right there that Nintendo has gotten lazy.

You could even go into 2009 with this. Thankfully there were actually quite a few good games for the Wii: Madworld, Deadly Creatures, Muramasa, Punch Out, Little King's Story, NSMB Wii, and Silent Hill:Shattered Memories. All of those games are at least worth renting, if not owning. I did not mention MP trilogy or Wii Sports Resort because one is a collection of previous titles and the other I would not consider to be a core gaming title.

As Grammaton already pointed out, only one game on that list was made completely in house.

But on a larger scale who really is to blame for it? Oh, don't misunderstand me here I'm not taking any of the blame away from Nintendo. Far from it, however the public is responsible as well. Nintendo has put out games that clear show a minimalist effort, and consumers have bought them in droves(need I bring up Wii Play?). In that regard I gues I should not be surprised by their lax nature. The whole risk/reward thing. They aren't really taking risks(not since the Wii took off anyway) but they are being well rewarded for it. Nintendo shouldn't be praised.....and on the same note neither should the public.

Sad part is that the 3rd companies suffer for it. All the titles previously mentioned were very solid titles, yet very few of them even broke 100,000 mark for sales.

People weren't buying Wii Play, they were buying a controller that just happened to come with a disc for like 5 or 10 extra bucks.

There has been something that has been bothering me for a while though. Why does everyone complain that Nintendo pumps out Metroid, Zelda, and Mario games constantly?

There has only been 7 console Zeldas in 22 years.

And there have only been 5 console Metroids in 23 years.

CoD has only been around since 2003 and there have already been like 8 or nine of them. Theres also been like 30 guitar heroes in the past like 2 months.

Harsh and striking criticism by Matt Casamassina who usually writes in favor toward Nintendo. He criticizes Nintendo being the laziest company, and also says that core fans don't care because first part Nintendo games still sell millions regardless if they're recycled or not.

Here's the article with important parts:

http://wii.ign.com/articles/105/1054621p1.html

[QUOTE="IGN"]

Nintendo is Lazy and You Don't Care

by Matt Casamassina

It's ironic because it is precisely the hardcore Nintendo fan who is most influenced by the company's changed practices. With the rare exception -- a morsel of food for the starving -- we are not getting the titles we want because Nintendo has hit upon a winning formula, which is to make quicker, cost-efficient software, sit back and then reap the rewards. The expanded audience doesn't read every word about the next title in the Legend of Zelda franchise. It doesn't care if New Super Mario Bros. isn't as beautiful as it could and should be. We do. And yet many of us defend Nintendo even when its motives benefit the business, not the players. We celebrate its monthly sales victories and then we re-play Super Mario Galaxy, Twilight Princess, and Smash Bros. while we sift through Nintendo's cash-ins on the way to its next big thing.

ASK_Story

What changed practices? On the core front, Nintendo has been cranking out a Zelda/Mario/Metroid game once or twice a year since the days of the GC. The reason the Wii saw so many titles in its first two years was that Nintendo effectively stopped supporting the GC after MP2 (Zelda was delayed for the Wii and Mario RPG was converted to a Wii title, etc.) so expecting that pace to continue wasn't realistic.

Nintendo fans being more concerned with Nintendo's financials is also nothing new. I remember GC owners mocking Xbox owners because Nintendo was making a profit and MS was losing money (Yeah, you have a steady stream of games like Ninja Gaiden, Halo, Otogi, KOTOR, Okami and PD Orta to play, but Nintendo makes a profit every quarter!).

Hardcore Nintendo fans labor under the belief that Nintendo makes great games, so they will take whatever Nintendo gives them and defend whatever rationale it offers up for its actions. I remember when Nintendo fans used to enjoy quality audiovisuals and mock games like the PS2 version of RE4 or the Genesis version of SF2 for not living up to the visuals of their Nintendo competitors, but now once a month or so some Nintendo fan starts a 'Do you hate graphics as much as I do?' thread, despite the fact most of them wouldn't recognize Zork if it walked up to them and slapped them in the face :P.

Even Matt C is drinking the kool aid. In one sentence Matt C mocks Nintendo's cheapness and the fact that the ancient PS2 outshadows the Wii in some areas, in the next he regurgitates press points as if he believes them (More powerful hardware only gets in the way of fun!).*Shrugs* Matt C's confused, somewhat confusing crisis of faith will end with the next Mario game.

Yeah... That's how I have been feeling about Nintendo for a long time, but every time I decide I don't like them anymore, they put something out that is so special that I can't stay mad at them. When the Gamecube wasn't everything I hoped it would be, they put out Metroid Prime and blew me away. When I hadn't turned my Wii on for months, Super Mario Galaxy came out and was one of the best games ever, even put up against stuff like COD4 that was coming out. And even when I look at New Super Mario Bros. Wii and am feeling that this isn't the Nintendo that pushed the 2D platformer to amazing heights with Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island, I remember that they just made the new Mario and Luigi. It's hard to play that game without having a smile on your face, and the ending made me love all the Mario characters in a way I haven't since I got into the double-digits in years.

Basically.. I want to be mad at Nintendo, but they just put out something amazing whenever my blood really gets boiling, and then I forget why I was mad...

I grew up on Nintendo, but I have to agree that they have gotten lazy in a lot of ways. It worries me because I'm hoping that they'll still be standing in the "hardcore" market once the novelty of motion controls wears off and people finally tire of Mario and Zelda. Nintendo is an amazing developer but they just don't seem to take any chances anymore.

Nah. The budget for new super mario bros was most likely on par with those games. It had 4 times as many levels as littlebigplanet designed. Probably had 3 or 4 game designers who designed each level compared to 1 per level by media molecule. Had to create a brand new engine in terms of lighting physics, and create all the art and assets. Also had to pay money to tons of old nintendo royalty game designers that had nothing to do with this game (miyamoto, kondo among other names). The game budget is going to rack up to 60 million dollars most likely in terms of budget before even released. Not laziness either.

nhh18

Most of the assets you mention were already present from the DS game. I have no idea where you got the idea that this was a brand new game but it most certainly is not.

As to the notion that this game had a budget of 60 million dollars, that's simply nonsense. I don't think Assassin's Creed II had that high a budget and that game had something like 300 people working on it.

NSMBWii probably cost less than 10 million to develop, and it wouldn't shock me to discover that thefinal tallyis probablyeven lower.

I mean, it's a port of a 2D game, regardless of how many assets they added for thr Wii version.

I think the Wii version does look nicer. On first glance it did look like a lazy port of the DS NSMB game but playing the DS version again after enjoying the Wii one, I did notice significant differences like sharper visuals, bloom, the backgrounds looked nicer, etc. But yeah, it is built off of the DS game, but I also think that NSMB Wii was cursed because the DS version exists. If it wasn't for that, it probably wouldn't of gotten so much flack like it did. Nintendo's fault was making the handheld version before the console one. Usually a console game is ported to handhelds but NSMB Wii was the other way around, and I think that sort of killed the whole "the modern-day 2D Super Mario console game" buzz.

But yeah, it did look lazy on Nintendo's part and it does look like they wanted to just cash-in on the DS version's success. But I still give them credit for making a superior sequel that does run in the tradition of past Super Marios'. And honestly, some of IGNorant's criticism on NSMBWii is idiotic when they reviewed or talked about NSMBWii like how the original reviewer compared it to Super Mario Galaxy saying how NSMBWii doesn't match its quality, which is ridiculous since they're whole different games. Also, Casamassina said that he wanted Nintendo to make a hand drawn modern day Super Mario game instead of 2.5D, but IMO, there are a lot of things you can do in 2.5D that you can't in 2D sprites. So Casamassina's criticism is more of his nostalgic and fanboy wants then practical game design. Sometimes IGN's comments are ridiculous.

Anyway, that's how I feel about NSMBWii. I'm not disagreeing with anyone who thinks NSMBWii maybe lazy, but this time around, I see the good outweighing the bad because I love the game. And yeah, one thing I do agree with Casamassina is that I wish the fourth playable wasn't Toad. If not Peach, why not Wario?

Anyway, that's how I feel about NSMBWii. I'm not disagreeing with anyone who thinks NSMBWii maybe lazy, but this time around, I see the good outweighing the bad because I love the game. And yeah, one thing I do agree with Casamassina is that I wish the fourth playable wasn't Toad. If not Peach, why not Wario?

ASK_Story

Hey, I bought it too and it's a great game. My point is that somebody claimed they spent around 60 million on its development which of course isn't true.

The real question is how long can Nintendo get away with type of strategy before consumers once again look to Sony and MS for relief? I think they've got this generation locked but I'm not so certain they'll stay on top for the kind of duration they enjoyed with the NES and SNES.

[QUOTE="ASK_Story"]

Anyway, that's how I feel about NSMBWii. I'm not disagreeing with anyone who thinks NSMBWii maybe lazy, but this time around, I see the good outweighing the bad because I love the game. And yeah, one thing I do agree with Casamassina is that I wish the fourth playable wasn't Toad. If not Peach, why not Wario?

Grammaton-Cleric

Hey, I bought it too and it's a great game. My point is that somebody claimed they spent around 60 million on its development which of course isn't true.

The real question is how long can Nintendo get away with type of strategy before consumers once again look to Sony and MS for relief? I think they've got this generation locked but I'm not so certain they'll stay on top for the kind of duration they enjoyed with the NES and SNES.

Matt has made plenty of articles calling Nintendo out for things, personally he is right on the nail with this one, NSMB wii is a good game, but in reality it is the same game that was released on the ds years ago, outside of mp3 and smg what was the last wii game that looked incredible visually? wizdom

NSMBWII would of been a griefers heaven online. The game would of needed to of been changed siginificantly. You would need to make it so players cannot pick up other players, cannot throw turtle shells at them, cannot jump and hit them sending them into a pit etc. If that stuff went in online, everyone asking for NSMBWII online would now be whining that it's "broken and full of griefers!". You probably wouldn't get past one level without having one guy picking everyone up and tossing them into lava or tossing turtle shells at you or purpousley grabbing all power ups.

It's the type of multiplayer that needs to be played face to face so you can smack the other players if they act stupid.

Annonymity+easily griefable gameplay=lulz ensured.

NSMBWII would of been a griefers heaven online. The game would of needed to of been changed siginificantly. You would need to make it so players cannot pick up other players, cannot throw turtle shells at them, cannot jump and hit them sending them into a pit etc. If that stuff went in online, everyone asking for NSMBWII online would now be whining that it's "broken and full of griefers!". You probably wouldn't get past one level without having one guy picking everyone up and tossing them into lava or tossing turtle shells at you or purpousley grabbing all power ups.

It's the type of multiplayer that needs to be played face to face so you can smack the other players if they act stupid.

Annonymity+easily griefable gameplay=lulz ensured.

Pixel-Pirate

I agree. Nintendo's whole mantra was market a game machine to non-gamers who didn't know any better while throwing a few bones to the Nintendo loyalists, and quite frankly, it worked. From a strict business point of view, they're brilliant, yes, but look what they sacrificed. They lost a lot of gamers who grew up on them because they just don't cater to their ever changing needs. Thanks to the rampant success of the Wii, it's shown Nintendo that cutting corners is definitely profitable, and what incentive do they have to build their next generation machine technology wise to compete with Sony and MS's next offer? So long as these non-gamer and casuals cough up the dough in droves, there will be no incentive. JustPlainLucas

Nintendo didn't sacrifice anything. Fans of racing games, sports sims, shooters, free roamers and what have you were no more drawn to the GC than they are to the Wii. First and third party games on the GC almost invariably fared poorly unless they had a cameo from Mario, Link or Samus (the Xbox's userbase was the same size, but third parties fared much better on the platform).

I'd say the knock against many of Nintendo's core fans is they care more about franchises than game types. The same is true to an extent of fans of most genres, but if Halo fans were as loyal as Mario fans, the Halo rts would have put up massive numbers and games like Gears and CoD would have been coldshouldered.

I don't think casual are loyal to Nintendo, but Sony's Singstar is the only game Sony or MS has made that has drawn large numbers of casuals, so I'm not convinced they know how to compete with Nintendo in that arena.

Perhaps my analysis is flawed because it reflect my heart's desire, but I honestly believe the best strategy for Sony and MS is continue to focus on core consumers. The continued sales of the PS2 demonstrate that despite their recent pricecuts the PS3 and the X360 still aren't affordable for gamers on a budget (they have just now dropped to the launch price of the PS2). Further hardware pricecuts as well as cuts in the prices of the greatest hits lineup could draw in said consumers.

i do agree that the new play control line is pretty damn lazy. its also ridiculous that those come at the expense of quality new ip's. i could atleast understand nintendo opting to make another mario platformer or zelda instead of risking a new ip, but i cant support new play control.LoG-Sacrament

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

Matt casamassina, I hate this guy. He basically "wants" hardcore games for the wii. Which he think are blood, gore, and fps. Reason why he gave that pathetic conduit game a 8.6. Which was a piss poor shooter. I would say most of those games are meant for a certain male demographic that is young. I would rather have games like platformers, etc. Instead. The new mickey game is a good example. But wii library is lacking because the lack of non-casual games. Not stuff like cod series which I find painfully boring.

MarcusAntonius

No offense, but I think you need to reread the article, clearly you missed the point entirely. Where in the article did Matt equate "hardcore" games as being "M" rated, much less bring that up?

His point was that Nintendo is getting a pass on flat-out lazy, second-rate game design and he laid out clear-cut examples of this. The points he makes are pretty dead-on.

There was an article earlier this year from the Tokyo Game Show that echoed the same thing. The VP of Capcom said that across the board many Japanese gaming companies were struggling due to a lack of good original software. He continued on that somewhere along the line Japanese game designers started making more casual games aimed toward kids and girls in an effort to broaden the market place. While that was a good decision somewhere along the line they began to abandon their traditional audience of gamers, people (both guys and gals) who play games as their primary of secondary media for entertainment. When the Wii first came out everyone was excited about the many possibilities for games that the WiiMote would bring. But Nintendo, and many of their 3rd party developers have not taken full advantage of the machine. Every single game for the Wii should max out the Wii's graphic capabilities since it already has lower graphics then its competitors. Yet for some reason it doesn't. And from a game play aspect, most people want pay $30 - $50 for a game they can get for under $5 on the iPhone or online for free. Nintendo hasn't come out with a new gaming character since maybe the early 90s, late 80s. Since many of the 3rd party game developers for the Wii are in Japan and they are struggling right now, the Wii has had to suffer with a bad string of games.

I know there are gonna be people who accuse me of just Wii bashing. But I am not. I dont have the link of the original article I read on gamespot but i have found the links to show the mess Japanese game developers are in and how it is hurting the Wii. Luckily for the PS3 they have a strong base of western developers or else they would be in the same situation as the Wii.

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25973806&msg_id=294316877

http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/826/826558p1.html

http://www.develop-online.net/news/33162/Japanese-industry-in-decline-says-Takahashi

http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/693347/live-blog-dice-2009---jun-takeuchi-capcom.html

http://www.icgamers.com/articles/9567/third-party-developers-struggling-on-nintendos-wii.html

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3169938

Im not trying to bash the Wii or Japanese games. I was born and raised on Japanese games and it took me a while to warm up to games made in the west. But recently Nintendo has adopted a business formula that is very destructive and will eventually hurt the if they don't change. The most important thing is not the controls, the graphics, the features, or even the price. While those things are important its the quality of games thats most important. Nintendo has to make ****c games for the Wii like it used to in past generations. Currently the DS has better 3rd party support then the Wii.

That was supposed to be classic games* in not sure why it got stared

[QUOTE="nhh18"]

Matt casamassina, I hate this guy. He basically "wants" hardcore games for the wii. Which he think are blood, gore, and fps. Reason why he gave that pathetic conduit game a 8.6. Which was a piss poor shooter. I would say most of those games are meant for a certain male demographic that is young. I would rather have games like platformers, etc. Instead. The new mickey game is a good example. But wii library is lacking because the lack of non-casual games. Not stuff like cod series which I find painfully boring.

No offense, but I think you need to reread the article, clearly you missed the point entirely. Where in the article did Matt equate "hardcore" games as being "M" rated, much less bring that up?

His point was that Nintendo is getting a pass on flat-out lazy, second-rate game design and he laid out clear-cut examples of this. The points he makes are pretty dead-on.

That was supposed to be classic games* in not sure why it got stared

Diablo-B

i saw an interview with reggie fils a couple of months ago about nintendo's holiday lineup, and three games he was most pumped up about were super mario bros. wii, legend of zelda ds, and modern warfare 4 redux.

and i thought, while these aren't bad games, is that really the best they could do? A mario game that is a retread of a DS game, another DS game, and a call of duty game that is inferior to the game released 2 years ago on XBOX 360/PS3 that comes out at the same time as modern warfare 2?

i stuck through nintendo through the lean gamecube years because the first party software was still awesome. metroid prime games, remake, re4, eternal darkness, smash bros. melee, alot of good stuff. the lineup full of retreads for the wii has been nothing short of embarrassing.

the root of the problem is that most gamers are not very thoughtful, articulate or communicative. i think companies like nintendo are taking short cuts, but gamers are some of laziest people i've seen. very few players are going to think about what they can do at an individual level. they're just going to carry on buying the same stuff, which continues the cycle ("because it's fun").

i do agree that the new play control line is pretty damn lazy. its also ridiculous that those come at the expense of quality new ip's. i could atleast understand nintendo opting to make another mario platformer or zelda instead of risking a new ip, but i cant support new play control.LoG-Sacrament

they're trying to use those 'new play control!' games to get fresh audiences for the series. pikmin is a good example, seeing as they are making a 3rd one. so there is some strategy here - it's not just a quick cash-in.

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"]i do agree that the new play control line is pretty damn lazy. its also ridiculous that those come at the expense of quality new ip's. i could atleast understand nintendo opting to make another mario platformer or zelda instead of risking a new ip, but i cant support new play control.just_nonplussed

they're trying to use those 'new play control!' games to get fresh audiences for the series. pikmin is a good example, seeing as they are making a 3rd one. so there is some strategy here - it's not just a quick cash-in.

[QUOTE="ASK_Story"][QUOTE="MarcusAntonius"]

No offense, but I think you need to reread the article, clearly you missed the point entirely. Where in the article did Matt equate "hardcore" games as being "M" rated, much less bring that up?

His point was that Nintendo is getting a pass on flat-out lazy, second-rate game design and he laid out clear-cut examples of this. The points he makes are pretty dead-on.

MarcusAntonius

I'd say he's a fan, not a fanatic. Nintendo realizes at this point that their IPs are critic-proof, they're only now producing their games as such. The Wii's marketshare has become a generational rout to the point that they no longer have to care.

Nintendo has NEVER cared, even during the GC era when they got their butt kicked, they didn't care. How many Mario Party games has it been? Two mario and sonic olympic games already, all they do is milk mascots, the wii line of games is just another mascot milk, EXCEPT the mascots are crappy avatars instead of Mario. Didn't understand the fascination with wii motion games, and didn't get the fascination with Mario as a character in a world that makes no sense.

For Nintendo fans, they DESERVE Nintendo, because they keep buying the games.

[QUOTE="dvader654"][QUOTE="nhh18"]Nah. The budget for new super mario bros was most likely on par with those games. It had 4 times as many levels as littlebigplanet designed. Probably had 3 or 4 game designers who designed each level compared to 1 per level by media molecule. Had to create a brand new engine in terms of lighting physics, and create all the art and assets. Also had to pay money to tons of old nintendo royalty game designers that had nothing to do with this game (miyamoto, kondo among other names). The game budget is going to rack up to 60 million dollars most likely in terms of budget before even released. Not laziness either.

nhh18

Why the hell wouldNintendo hire 300 people to work on NSBW? Or any game for that matter? You don't need that big of an art team when basically the game is made from tiles, the game doesn't even look like it has that kind of production value.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

NSMBWII would of been a griefers heaven online. The game would of needed to of been changed siginificantly. You would need to make it so players cannot pick up other players, cannot throw turtle shells at them, cannot jump and hit them sending them into a pit etc. If that stuff went in online, everyone asking for NSMBWII online would now be whining that it's "broken and full of griefers!". You probably wouldn't get past one level without having one guy picking everyone up and tossing them into lava or tossing turtle shells at you or purpousley grabbing all power ups.

It's the type of multiplayer that needs to be played face to face so you can smack the other players if they act stupid.

Annonymity+easily griefable gameplay=lulz ensured.

JustPlainLucas

Griefer is someone who intentionally ruins an online game.

Like in l4d joining and killing your team mates. Or joining a FF server and killing your team things like that.

[QUOTE="just_nonplussed"]

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"]i do agree that the new play control line is pretty damn lazy. its also ridiculous that those come at the expense of quality new ip's. i could atleast understand nintendo opting to make another mario platformer or zelda instead of risking a new ip, but i cant support new play control.LoG-Sacrament

they're trying to use those 'new play control!' games to get fresh audiences for the series. pikmin is a good example, seeing as they are making a 3rd one. so there is some strategy here - it's not just a quick cash-in.

fair enough. mario does print money. it's a cash cow, but at least most mario games are quality products in themselves (without being terribly new).

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"][QUOTE="just_nonplussed"]

they're trying to use those 'new play control!' games to get fresh audiences for the series. pikmin is a good example, seeing as they are making a 3rd one. so there is some strategy here - it's not just a quick cash-in.

fair enough. mario does print money. it's a cash cow, but at least most mario games are quality products in themselves (without being terribly new).

nothing is free and everything costs time and resources. "nothing is coming at the expense of anything" is just never the case.LoG-Sacrament

Everything comes at a cost but I think your statement is flat out false. We're on the 3rd mario platformer, the second metroid game, the second Zelda game, we've have a Wii Smash Brother, Wii Mario Kart. To say that they've ignored classic franchises and new IPs just to make New Wii Play control games doesn't seem to be based off of any reality.

[QUOTE="LoG-Sacrament"]nothing is free and everything costs time and resources. "nothing is coming at the expense of anything" is just never the case.Senor_Kami

Everything comes at a cost but I think your statement is flat out false. We're on the 3rd mario platformer, the second metroid game, the second Zelda game, we've have a Wii Smash Brother, Wii Mario Kart. To say that they've ignored classic franchises and new IPs just to make New Wii Play control games doesn't seem to be based off of any reality.

It's not that Nintendo lacks violent games....it's that Nintendo lacks depth in their library at all! Where are the deep complex RPGs for instance?

In the perfect world, I would have a console with Mario games, and deeper experiences as well, but those deeper experiences just are not there.