Is KOTOR considered a RPG?

Knights of the Old Republic is an RPG. Almost all hallmarks and attributes of true RPG's can be found in the game. The combat is even based on AD&D rules.UpInFlames

my friend still doesn't believe it is since none of you have cited a source or an example...he still believes KOTOR is a action game.Xbox360God

Ask your friend to name one action game with a turn-based combat system.

[QUOTE="Xbox360God"]my friend still doesn't believe it is since none of you have cited a source or an example...he still believes KOTOR is a action game.UpInFlames

Ask your friend to name one action game with a turn-based combat system.

[QUOTE="Xbox360God"]my friend still doesn't believe it is since none of you have cited a source or an example...he still believes KOTOR is a action game.UpInFlames

Ask your friend to name one action game with a turn-based combat system.

The combat is based off of Dungeons and Dragons.. It is turn based.starwarsgeek112

The combat is based on D&D. D&D has random chance dice rolling. KOTOR is not turn based. It's real time with random chance dice roles adapted from D&D. Turn based gameplay and probability are not synonymous. D&D is only turn based due to the nature of the game.

You're wrong. Also, if you're going to post something as fact, please cite a source. None of you here have done that. It is probability based, not turn based. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.loumt123

I'm going to assume that you're "the friend". The combat system in Knights of the Old Republic is turn-based.

From Wikipedia:

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (KotOR) is a role-playing game developed by BioWare and published by LucasArts.

This game's system is based on Wizards of the Coast's Star Wars Roleplaying Game, which is based on the d20role-playing game system derived from the Third Edition Dungeons & Dragons rules. Combat is round-based; time is divided into discrete rounds, and combatants attack and react simultaneously. However, the number of actions a combatant may perform each round is limited. While each round's duration is a fixed short interval of real time, the player can configure the combat system to pause at specific events or at the end of each round.

Note the number of times the term "role-playing" is mentioned. Sorry to inform you, but these are widely known facts and you're the one who doesn't have a clue on the subject. I also find it hilarious that you're the one who demands sources when you're the one making silly claims such as labeling a role-playing game as an action game.

Wikipedia isn't a valid source, buddy. Got a dev quote? Also, you may want to check the nature of REAL RPGS prior to D&D. D&D was not the first RPG... Your opinion on what constitutes an RPG is subjective, not based on history or fact.

Also, that statement doesn't support your theory of turn based. Turn based is not the same as round based gameplay.

D&D is only turn based due to the nature of the game.loumt123

You do understand that you've just acknowledged that D&D is turn-based?

[QUOTE="loumt123"]D&D is only turn based due to the nature of the game.UpInFlames

You do understand that you've just acknowledged that D&D is turn-based?

Yes, but D&D is a game played with paper and dice...it's of a totally different nature than KOTOR. KOTOR is based on D&D rules...it's not D&D. And, again, you've used to notion of round based gameplay to support your theory of turn based gameplay. The two are different. During turn based gameplay, combatants don't attack simultaneously...

[QUOTE="loumt123"]D&D is only turn based due to the nature of the game.UpInFlames

You do understand that you've just acknowledged that D&D is turn-based?

[QUOTE="loumt123"]D&D is only turn based due to the nature of the game.UpInFlames

You do understand that you've just acknowledged that D&D is turn-based?

As an addition to my prior post, just to make sure you read this, I'd like a quote from the developer that supports your opinion.

From the developer:

Immersive, action-packed Star Wars role playing experience with customizable and evolving playable characters.

From the developer:

Immersive, action-packed Star Wars role playing experience with customizable and evolving playable characters.

UpInFlames

And that validates your opinion on turn based gameplay in what way? And, even if one were to consider it an RPG, it would be in the grey area of action RPG, and, IMO, it's certainly more action than RPG. It's certainly not the classical definition of an RPG.

Kotor's combat runs in real time but it's turn based.. starwarsgeek112

Do you have a developer quote to support this? How can it run in real time and be turn based? It can, however, run in real time and be probability based. It could also be round based, but being round based does not mean it is turn based. When combatants attack simulataneously, that's not turn based.

From the GS review:

Combat appears to be in real time but actually uses a turn-based system "under the hood" just like Neverwinter Nights, which means that your character's statistics and attributes (and your strategy) make all the difference, and your personal reflexes and hand-eye coordination have no bearing on the outcome. starwarsgeek112

Obvious the interviewer doesn't know what he's talking about. Since when did turn-based mean you character's statistics and attributes make all the difference? Turn based simply means combatants take turns with their actions. In KOTOR, you must admit combatants DO attack simultaneously. How is that turn based? It's round based, and again, round based gameplay is not turn based. And where did he get his information on the combat system from? How do we know it's not just an observation.

I'm not saying KOTOR is a bad game, but there are far too many misconceptions.

And that validates your opinion on turn based gameplay in what way? And, even if one were to consider it an RPG, it would be in the grey area of action RPG, and, IMO, it's certainly more action than RPG. It's certainly not the classical definition of an RPG.loumt123

An action RPG is still an RPG. But Knights of the Old Republic isn't an action RPG, something like Diablo fits that description and the two aren't all that similar.

Also, what you need to understand that the term RPG when used in the context of video games cannot be equated to the the same term when used in the context of pen and paper RPG's. Video game RPG's are based on and are influenced by the ideas, hallmarks and attributes of pen and paper RPG's, but they are not one and the same.

[QUOTE="starwarsgeek112"]From the GS review:

Combat appears to be in real time but actually uses a turn-based system "under the hood" just like Neverwinter Nights, which means that your character's statistics and attributes (and your strategy) make all the difference, and your personal reflexes and hand-eye coordination have no bearing on the outcome. loumt123

Obvious the interviewer doesn't know what he's talking about. Since when did turn-based mean you character's statistics and attributes make all the difference? Turn based simply means combatants take turns with their actions. In KOTOR, you must admit combatants DO attack simultaneously. How is that turn based? It's round based, and again, round based gameplay is not turn based. And where did he get his information on the combat system from? How do we know it's not just an observation.

....Alright well why don't you find the developer's saying otherwise. Also whether or not the combat is turn-based it is still an RPG, it's like Baldur's Gate/Neverwinter Nights with a Star Wars skin.

The game is a RPG game.

1. It holds RPG elements such as Attributes, skills, traits, A leveling system and upgradable weapons and armor.

2. http://www.bioware.com/games/knights_old_republic/game_info/game_features/ Read the official developer site Game features, preferably the place where it stands that it is a role playing game.

3. Go to bed.

We do know that Bioware considers KOTOR an action RPG. My issue is people thinking it's a bonafide, hardcore RPG. In all honesty, you must admit there is more action than RPG, and the RPG elements that are there are awfully shallow compared to other games. This is just my opinion, though.

However, those stating elements of KOTORS system and engine to be fact might want to do some more research...or not spew off answers so quickly as I've quickly shot them down. Give me a developers opinion or some logic and I'll listen. (Not trying to be cocky or condescending, just realistic).

In KOTOR, you must admit combatants DO attack simultaneously. How is that turn based? It's round based, and again, round based gameplay is not turn based. And where did he get his information on the combat system from? How do we know it's not just an observation.loumt123

We do know that Bioware considers KOTOR an action RPG. My issue is people thinking it's a bonafide, hardcore RPG. In all honesty, you must admit there is more action than RPG, and the RPG elements that are there are awfully shallow compared to other games. This is just my opinion, though.

However, those stating elements of KOTORS system and engine to be fact might want to do some more research...or not spew off answers so quickly as I've quickly shot them down. Give me a developers opinion or some logic and I'll listen. (Not trying to be cocky or condescending, just realistic).

loumt123

[QUOTE="loumt123"]

We do know that Bioware considers KOTOR an action RPG. My issue is people thinking it's a bonafide, hardcore RPG. In all honesty, you must admit there is more action than RPG, and the RPG elements that are there are awfully shallow compared to other games. This is just my opinion, though.

However, those stating elements of KOTORS system and engine to be fact might want to do some more research...or not spew off answers so quickly as I've quickly shot them down. Give me a developers opinion or some logic and I'll listen. (Not trying to be cocky or condescending, just realistic).

starwarsgeek112

Not ONE of your answers are from Bioware. I've seen a review from gamestop, an uncited source from wikipedia, and a description of the game. That's not exactly from the developers, and I'm not sure how you got the idea they were from the devs.

I can spout off one very important reason why it's not turn based - combatants cannot perform actions simultaneously in a turn based RPG. If anything, it's round based, which if it is is very unnoticeable because it runs in more of a real time manner. Round based is absolutely not the same as turn based, so I don't know where you heard that. If anyone can find a quote from Bioware developers describing the gameplay of KOTOR, I welcome it. However, the bulk of you just want to run your mouths without posting anything useful. Yawn, it's old. I've been on enough forums to get over the 14 year old know it all trolls:roll:. Anyway, regardless of the method used, it's much more of an action game with weak RPG elements than an authentic, hardcore RPG. It's short, shallow, and confined. RPG elements are hardly pronounced and much more overshadowed by action elements.

Anyway, one thing the developer has described KOTOR as is an action RPG. We can agree on that. I just happen to think it's much more an action game with weak RPG implementations. Because of this, I don't believe it deserves the acclaim it has received as an "RPG." It simply lacks the depth of RPG elements. It's by no means a bad game, it's just not a very good RPG. If you want to play a real RPG, try one of the Persona games. They are menu based (a characteristic of historical RPGs - used to distinguish an RPG game from an action game) and put much more emphasis on true RPG elements and less emphasis on making a more complex action game.

[QUOTE="anmvamp"]

hahahaha

this is the best post ever.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure the game it self is a pretty good source. One can't deny that it consists of leveling up, attribute distribution, and turned based combat (each attack is based off a 'dice roll'). Seriously, when kids start getting this defensive when proven wrong... i giggle to myself.

loumt123

You, sir, are an idiot. Your post serves no other purpose than to mindlessly ridicule. If you did some research, you'd find KOTOR is loosely based on D&D rules, the backbone of which is probability, such as in a dice roll. And, though some of those characteristics are present, they are horrendously weak. Any RPG fan would argue the RPG elements are shallow. Doesn't make it a bad game, but that doesn't make for a great RPG experience.

So, you can stop being a sarcastic little prick and provide something of value to the debate.:roll:

So, you're saying that KOTOR has those elements, that are horrendously weak. Wouldn't that mean then that you're admitting that the game has those elements, hense forth making it an RPG?

It has those elements, but the action elements are much more pronounced then the RPG elements, in my honest opinion. As a result, I would classify it as an action game with RPG elements. However, some people mistakenly assume action RPGs are authentic RPGs when they are, in fact, action games with RPG elements. KOTOR might have been a good action game, but it wasn't one of the better RPGs I've played, and I've played many of many of them. I don't understand why it's so overrated and why people think it's a legitimate, full fledged RPG. Is it because of its easy accessibility and "casual feel?"

In conclusion, KOTOR is first and foremost an action game....not an RPG. To compare it to other RPGs, such as the Shin Megami Tensei series, is pure murder.

What's with all of the KOTOR topics? Was there recent news about the Old Republic MMORPG or something?SpaceMoose

[QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]What's with all of the KOTOR topics? Was there recent news about the Old Republic MMORPG or something?Xbox360God

[QUOTE="Xbox360God"][QUOTE="SpaceMoose"]What's with all of the KOTOR topics? Was there recent news about the Old Republic MMORPG or something?SpaceMoose

Anyway, one thing the developer has described KOTOR as is an action RPG. We can agree on that.

loumt123

Got an official developer quote on that? I mean, you wouldn't have brought it up if you didn't, but you might as well post it anyway.

In any case, how would you define an action game, or an action RPG? I mean, sure, KOTOR was a shallow RPG, but it didn't have a real-time combat system, and more emphasis was placed on storytelling than the combat or loot-collecting, which are obvious signs of action RPGs.