Is the blocking of used games really that bad ?

Would the end of second hand sales really be that bad for you ?
As a pc gamer who is used to the digital market, this backlash does suprise me
As with what for sure would be a rocky transition period in the long term it can profit a lot more

The upsides of a digital market

As you can see on digital platforms on the PC, take for instance Steam Gog Gamersgate Greenmangameing
We as PC gamers have a wide range of games we can pick up for a huge discount, this opens me up for getting more games then i would get if i was buyign second hand where its usually just 5$ cheaper as the big retail chains look into makeing as mutch profit as possible, as they have a limited stock, for where instead the digital shops look for as mutch sales, as they arent limited to how mutch second hands they get handed in

Why support big retail companies that you claim to hate, Instead of the developers that you love ?

On just about any of the forum threads we see about gamestop, a story that is not in my country so i cant really join in on
The majority of the ppl who comment most of them seem to have a clear hatred for companys like Gamestop.
Jet now the digital market on console's is riseing more and more, the same ppl who hate Gamestop are now activly defending it any going full out on microsoft for a system that would allow them to see a cut of the game sales where they and the developers will see NOTHING off
Ofcourse there is a lot of confusion about how this system is in place, and if they do make it so that gamers turn up to pay the extra price they really are doing it wrong and they do deserve the backlash for it
But instead of complaining about the system in a whole, the message that should be clear is that a system where a cut without the customer paying extra goes to the publishers and developers go, is what should be made clear to companys as microsoft or sony
At the end of the day, it are retailers like gamestop who are activly pushing for second hand sales and try drive as mutch customers away from first hand sales, and as mutch as we might think the big publishers are greedy and want max profit, this current system is really hurting them financially
this is a reason why dlc system is being pushed so hard.

Thrusting console developers

When it comes down to a digital focused market it is about if you thrust those who provide it
And as a pc gamer this is something i can relate to.
I do not thrust EA to do the digital market the right way, its the reason i dont use origin
Its a matter if you thrust microsoft or Sony
And with a 500gb harddrive from microsoft and a clear desire to push a digital market i really am suprised.
Because if we look past the other controversial stuff around the xbox one, on the rising digital market for consoles they are pushing, and the forced installs, the size of this harddrive is really small
But for the many Sony fans, if you love the company so mutch and you want the ps4 so mutch, then why do you struggle for a market that is going to benefit you in the long term ? do you infact not thrust them to do this the right way, or do you care so mutch about the ability to resell youre copy once you got it for 50bucks instead of 60 that you can resell and not have the developers who made that great game see a single dime back, that you would ignore future offering where you can get youre hands on deals with are by far a lot better then Gamestop, a company you claim to hate offers you, and actually have youre money end up in the hands of those who made these great games possible ?

I guess you need to be a collector to understand why it's badBlack_Knight_00

I do not like block of used games because it remove some good points of the physical while adding the down side to DD.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]I guess you need to be a collector to understand why it's badDiablo-B

The worst thing with blocking used games is that it furthers the corporate agenda of restraining the consumers rights over the product they rightly own, extending the so called "license". Encurage this trend and soon we might even see a deadline to complete a game before the license is revoced. Lastly combined with increase in games pre-ordered it can allow developers to hype a crappy game that you can't re-sell once you own (are licensed) it.

[QUOTE="Diablo-B"][QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]I guess you need to be a collector to understand why it's badBlack_Knight_00

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

[QUOTE="Diablo-B"] What? Why would a collector care about used games restrictions? Don't collector keep the games and not sell them? Also used games aren't being blocked, they are being registered with Azure. Its a clever new DRM system.shadowchronicle

blocking used games and making them sh*t expensive are different things.

blocking used games altogether is, in my opinion, the point in which console games become completely disposable. retailers have limited shelf space so they aren't going to stock a game forever. with no used games, the only way to play that game after a month is DD and i haven't seen any demonstration yet of console manufacturers and publishers making every game available digitally. i don't follow the vita, but is every retail game available there digitally? that's the only console/handheld i can think that might do it. even then, how do we know there aren't going to be DRM hindrances for DD copies too? what happens when the next hardware comes out and the digital storefront moves on? my point is that is becomes a conservation problem.

making used games more expensive is eliminating the people who relied on lower prices to game. i remember being in high school and not being able to drop $50 on every game. it makes me wonder if people who no longer have that option are going to game less, game on cheaper platforms (smartphones/tablets), or play different types of games.

[QUOTE="shadowchronicle"][QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] There are games you can only get used off ebay and in a few years it will be a mess collecting games when support for the new consoels has ceased and license transfer servers have gone offlineBlack_Knight_00

blocking used games and making them sh*t expensive are different things.

blocking used games altogether is, in my opinion, the point in which console games become completely disposable. retailers have limited shelf space so they aren't going to stock a game forever. with no used games, the only way to play that game after a month is DD and i haven't seen any demonstration yet of console manufacturers and publishers making every game available digitally. i don't follow the vita, but is every retail game available there digitally? that's the only console/handheld i can think that might do it. even then, how do we know there aren't going to be DRM hindrances for DD copies too? what happens when the next hardware comes out and the digital storefront moves on? my point is that is becomes a conservation problem.

making used games more expensive is eliminating the people who relied on lower prices to game. i remember being in high school and not being able to drop $50 on every game. it makes me wonder if people who no longer have that option are going to game less, game on cheaper platforms (smartphones/tablets), or play different types of games.

LoG-Sacrament

I guess you need to be a collector to understand why it's badBlack_Knight_00

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]I guess you need to be a collector to understand why it's badwwefanforlife

the problem is that one comapny wants to own the entire economic food chain. you buy their console. you buy games they have specifically licensed. even when you buy a used game you have to kick over cash to play it. and they control the digital marketplace for their games exclusively. this is all about microsoft controlling how you acces entertainment and getting a cut every time you do so.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]I guess you need to be a collector to understand why it's badwwefanforlife

Yeah it is. Most games won't last me forever, so I'd like to be able to get rid of a game after i'm done with it, and let some one else play it who might be able to enjoy it after me.

I want to be able to borrow games from friends and lend them out myself.

Games go out of print. You might not always be able to get a game when it's released, and your window to pick it up might be small before the publisher stops making it. THen used games ae your only option.

And here's the potentially dangerous thing for developers: Used game slaes can spur new game sales. For example, I took a chance buying Xenosaga used for cheap. I like it enough that I ended up buying episodes 2 and 3 new. If the used game hadn't been an option, I wouldn't have bought 2 new games. I'm sure the same could be said for others.

Not being able to sell games after we're done with them is crap.

Not being able to sell games after we're done with them is crap. BuryMe

It funny one one has yet to bring up the system that is needed to block used games and the question of what happen when it shuts down. Base on the history of system like it, I would guess they could just stop it and leave those wanting games for that system out of luck.

It funny one one has yet to bring up the system that is needed to block used games and the question of what happen when it shuts down. Base on the history of system like it, I would guess they could just stop it and leave those wanting games for that system out of luck.

wiouds

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] As I said, if you're not a collector you will never see why we're pissed about thisshadowchronicle

A pure DD system would suck so much. It gives some much power to the game publishers.

blocking used games and making them sh*t expensive are different things.

blocking used games altogether is, in my opinion, the point in which console games become completely disposable. retailers have limited shelf space so they aren't going to stock a game forever. with no used games, the only way to play that game after a month is DD and i haven't seen any demonstration yet of console manufacturers and publishers making every game available digitally. i don't follow the vita, but is every retail game available there digitally? that's the only console/handheld i can think that might do it. even then, how do we know there aren't going to be DRM hindrances for DD copies too? what happens when the next hardware comes out and the digital storefront moves on? my point is that is becomes a conservation problem.

making used games more expensive is eliminating the people who relied on lower prices to game. i remember being in high school and not being able to drop $50 on every game. it makes me wonder if people who no longer have that option are going to game less, game on cheaper platforms (smartphones/tablets), or play different types of games.

LoG-Sacrament

If used game blocking was in effect now, I would have had to pay hundreds of dollars for the DS Rune Factory games I recently bought on Amazon. That would totally suck.

It's not for me but if the market for used games is a rather large one (which from the sounds of it it is or at least "big enough") then it is quite a bother for many.

The problem with this is that there is no evidence that supports that Steam-like sales and overall cheaper game prices will take hold once digital distribution is the dominant form of media distribution on consoles. The PC is an open platform - Steam may dominate the market, but there still is competition. There are other sites like GMG, Amazon, GamersGate, Origin, and numerous sites for specific games where you can buy titles. The important thing is that there's competition, something which is distinctly lacking on consoles. On the PC Steam has incentives to offer steep discounts, if only to reinforce their dominance in the market.

On consoles, it's a different story. Everything has to run through a single digital store only, there is no other way of obtaining games for the platform, whether it be on Xbox, Playstation, or whatever system Nintendo has out. Go into any Gamestop today and I can guarantee you that almost every game with at the very least as cheap if not dramatically cheaper than titles available on Xbox Games on Demand or PSN. Prices drop far less frequently as publishers and Microsoft/Sony don't feel the need to drop their prices, especially now once physical media will no longer be able to provide lower prices. It's a monopoly, and one in which the consumer loses big time. 

Anyone saying that killing used games is going to be the saving grace of this industry is kidding themselves. 

The problem with this is that their is no evidence that supports that Steam-like sales and overall cheaper game prices will take hold once digital distribution is the dominant form of media distribution on consoles. The PC is an open platform - Steam may dominate the market, but there still is competition. There are other sites like GMG, Amazon, GamersGate, Origin, and numerous sites for specific games where you can buy titles. The important thing is that there's competition, something which is distinctly lacking on consoles. On the PC Steam has incentives to offer steep discounts, if only to assure their reinforce their dominance in the market.

On consoles, it's a different story. Everything has to run through a single digital store only, there is no other way of obtaining games for the platform, whether it be on Xbox, Playstation, or whatever system Nintendo has out. Go into any Gamestop today and I can guarantee you that almost every game with at the very least as cheap if not dramatically cheaper than titles available on Xbox Games on Demand or PSN. Prices drop far less frequently as publishers and Microsoft/Sony don't feel the need to drop their prices, especially now once physical media will no longer be able to provide lower prices. It's a monopoly, and one in which the consumer loses big time. 

Anyone saying that killing used games is going to be the saving grace of this industry is kidding themselves. 

Vari3ty

Just like anyone who says killing used games is going to be the death of it. I think the truth will end up being somewhere in the middle even if that ends up being the case. But we don't yet know if there won't be a digital distribution system in place for used games that goes outside of the manufacturers. For all we know, eventually it could be that each major publishers will have their own distribution system and the console manufacturers would try to help the smaller devs out. If that's the case, I still see room for competition.

Honestly, I hope there's a place for used games and digital distribution, but as far as the rest of it goes, I think those that are a fan of tangible copies are screwed anyway. How much longer would console games really be able to go without going digital? It's an unecessary cost at this point. Boxes, transportation, manuals, store shelf space, paying for brick and mortar stores and their employees. Yes I know there are still some countries that don't have the infastructure in place. But I think those countries are also the type of countries that are not the primary demographic of next generation gaming. 

If you ask me? This is it. Last generation. And they might be dead before this generation is over. But I guess we're going to have a slow transition period.

PC gaming = 100% backward compatibility

Console gaming = partial or none.

PC games can be played on any PC.

Console games can only played on the console it was designed for.

Your PC dies because its 10 years old and your new PC can play all of your old games.

Your console dies and used games are blocked and is 10 years old, your entire library just took a flush.

With that said, I don't think its reasonable to compare the two because they are not the same. One system is closed the other is open. One system has heavy manufacturer restriction the other doesn't.

PC gaming = 100% backward compatibility

Console gaming = partial or none.

PC games can be played on any PC.

Console games can only played on the console it was designed for.

Your PC dies because its 10 years old and your new PC can play all of your old games.

Your console dies and used games are blocked and is 10 years old, your entire library just took a flush.

With that said, I don't think its reasonable to compare the two because they are not the same. One system is closed the other is open. One system has heavy manufacturer restriction the other doesn't.

Pedro

Not true, we can still play them on PC. ;)

Let's be frank and honest. If anyone really wants to play an old console game on your PC, you can. There's always an emulator that comes out. I mean really, you can. And usually with upgraded graphics, online gaming, improved frame rates and more. Original Shinobi is still amazing. Even with cloud networking and DRM, 15 years from now, someone will figure it out and the manufacturers won't give a shit about it at that point. That is all.

PC gaming = 100% backward compatibility

Console gaming = partial or none.

PC games can be played on any PC.

Console games can only played on the console it was designed for.

Your PC dies because its 10 years old and your new PC can play all of your old games.

Your console dies and used games are blocked and is 10 years old, your entire library just took a flush.

With that said, I don't think its reasonable to compare the two because they are not the same. One system is closed the other is open. One system has heavy manufacturer restriction the other doesn't.

Pedro

This also brings up another important point. If we're going to be fully embracing the digital model there has to be backwards compatability from all consoles here on out. No more of this new generation - old games won't carry over business. PS4 games need to be playable on the PS5/PS6/and so on, and the same goes for Microsoft and Nintendo's platforms. 

DD or system that limit what games can be played give too much power to the seller.

The consumers are not buy anything in that sense. They are doing a leasing. The system owner  noramlly reserve the right to shut down their system. Many times they also hold the right to terminate any account. This means that they remove your access to the games you paid for legally.

When it comes to EULA, steam have one of the meanest one. EA's origin has one of the more nicer one.

blocking used games and making them sh*t expensive are different things.

blocking used games altogether is, in my opinion, the point in which console games become completely disposable. retailers have limited shelf space so they aren't going to stock a game forever. with no used games, the only way to play that game after a month is DD and i haven't seen any demonstration yet of console manufacturers and publishers making every game available digitally. i don't follow the vita, but is every retail game available there digitally? that's the only console/handheld i can think that might do it. even then, how do we know there aren't going to be DRM hindrances for DD copies too? what happens when the next hardware comes out and the digital storefront moves on? my point is that is becomes a conservation problem.

making used games more expensive is eliminating the people who relied on lower prices to game. i remember being in high school and not being able to drop $50 on every game. it makes me wonder if people who no longer have that option are going to game less, game on cheaper platforms (smartphones/tablets), or play different types of games.

[QUOTE="Pedro"]PC gaming = 100% backward compatibility Console gaming = partial or none PC games can be played on any PC Console games can only played on the console it was designed for Your PC dies because its 10 years old and your new PC can play all of your old games Black_Knight_00

Not as easy to get running as more recent games, but you can do it now.

Edit: Don't know about Anachronox compatibility, but there is always a way (worst case scenario: install Win98 on VirtualBox)

It's wrong because no other industry does that. Not even music and movies, who are the biggest attackers of pirates, bother you with what you do with your legally purchased CD or blu-ray. These game devs are beyond greedy. You have guys like Cliffy B who tweets pics of his Lamborghini, which he worked for and rightfully deserves - but don't tell me he's broke.

I consider myself a collector, and my TG-16 and Saturn library would be impossible if I couldn't buy and trade games. I actively borrow and lend games. Blocking used games (or making them a pain in the a$$ to get and access) would really change the way I'd play games to the point where I may not anymore. I constantly play my older games. I will not be ok buying an xbone game and then not having access to it when xbone2 comes out and they kill the previous servers.

Digital games? I have Outrun and Double Dragon on my 360. Great games, you should download them - oh wait, you can't! Sega lost the Ferrari license and the company that brought Double Dragon closed shop. Both games were pulled from Xbox Live. I don't like buying something that I do not have in my possesion. And I will not accept that "all services come to an end" and "who plays old games?" Because I do. I still play NES games that are over 20 years old (and that I paid $50 for, so I really am not that excited about having to pay $5 for a WiiU virtual console version).

Developers need to regulate themselves better if selling a millions of copies of a game is not considered successful.

In addition to this, I will add that eliminating used gaming also means no more renting games from your local video store or GameFly, or even borrowing games from your friends to play on your own system. In essence, it takes away the few advantages that console gaming has over the PC while giving consumers nothing in return.1PMrFister

That's the only part that really sucks to me. Rentals. 

[QUOTE="Treflis"]4. "Our medium is art", If it is then shouldn't we have someplace where they're stored so the future can look back and appriciate it. This is a small nod to Collectors, those of us who proudly have them displayed on shelves either in our study, man cave, livingroom or even guest house if you're rich enough to have one. Look at your copies, each one of them that you haven't traded in because you just wouldn't. It's your hobby, something you enjoy and something you've put effort into. This is much a joining of point 2 and 3, What if 1/3 or even 2/3 of them vanished and you couldn't get them back because they were either not sold anymore or the server had been shut down? I'd be more then bummed. Maybe you'd find a few of them online but all of them? Black_Knight_00

Wow, I think you are being too nice about how long their system will be up.

Exactly: people act as though they didn't know that servers eventually go offline when keeping them running is no longer cost effective for companies. Don't expect to be able to download your PSN or Steam games 15 or 20 years from now, the servers simply won't be there anymore. DD and online-activated games are great if you're into gaming just for passing entertainment, but if in any way you consider yourself a collector or retrogamer, physical copies are the only viable way to go.Black_Knight_00

Good thing steam has an offline backup option and and offline play mode to alleviate both those problems.

Collector's dont bring in anywhere near the kind of money that the average or casual gamer does. Theres no point, form a business perspective, to dedicate so many resources on a customer base that provides relatively little money.

It's wrong because no other industry does that. Not even music and movies, who are the biggest attackers of pirates, bother you with what you do with your legally purchased CD or blu-ray. These game devs are beyond greedy. You have guys like Cliffy B who tweets pics of his Lamborghini, which he worked for and rightfully deserves - but don't tell me he's broke.

I consider myself a collector, and my TG-16 and Saturn library would be impossible if I couldn't buy and trade games. I actively borrow and lend games. Blocking used games (or making them a pain in the a$$ to get and access) would really change the way I'd play games to the point where I may not anymore. I constantly play my older games. I will not be ok buying an xbone game and then not having access to it when xbone2 comes out and they kill the previous servers.

Digital games? I have Outrun and Double Dragon on my 360. Great games, you should download them - oh wait, you can't! Sega lost the Ferrari license and the company that brought Double Dragon closed shop. Both games were pulled from Xbox Live. I don't like buying something that I do not have in my possesion. And I will not accept that "all services come to an end" and "who plays old games?" Because I do. I still play NES games that are over 20 years old (and that I paid $50 for, so I really am not that excited about having to pay $5 for a WiiU virtual console version).

Developers need to regulate themselves better if selling a millions of copies of a game is not considered successful.

Grieverr

Bolded the last line for emphasis, I agree completely.  I'm sorry, but if a publisher dumps so much money into a title that it has to sell 5 million+ to make a viable profit, used games aren't your problem.

When an indie game that was made by 2 or 3 developers out of their homes (and is sold for $15) has an absurd profit margin compared to your AAA title that cost $150 million to make, then clearly the way you manage your company is the problem.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] Exactly: people act as though they didn't know that servers eventually go offline when keeping them running is no longer cost effective for companies. Don't expect to be able to download your PSN or Steam games 15 or 20 years from now, the servers simply won't be there anymore. DD and online-activated games are great if you're into gaming just for passing entertainment, but if in any way you consider yourself a collector or retrogamer, physical copies are the only viable way to go.XaosII

Good thing steam has an offline backup option and and offline play mode to alleviate both those problems.

Collector's dont bring in anywhere near the kind of money that the average or casual gamer does. Theres no point, form a business perspective, to dedicate so many resources on a customer base that provides relatively little money.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] Exactly: people act as though they didn't know that servers eventually go offline when keeping them running is no longer cost effective for companies. Don't expect to be able to download your PSN or Steam games 15 or 20 years from now, the servers simply won't be there anymore. DD and online-activated games are great if you're into gaming just for passing entertainment, but if in any way you consider yourself a collector or retrogamer, physical copies are the only viable way to go.XaosII

Good thing steam has an offline backup option and and offline play mode to alleviate both those problems.

Collector's dont bring in anywhere near the kind of money that the average or casual gamer does. Theres no point, form a business perspective, to dedicate so many resources on a customer base that provides relatively little money.

You still need to log into Steam. That is unless you want to go pirate and get around their DRM.

I wouldn't mind it, but that's coming from someone who doesn't typically buy them anyway.  

It's wrong because no other industry does that. Not even music and movies, who are the biggest attackers of pirates, bother you with what you do with your legally purchased CD or blu-ray. These game devs are beyond greedy. You have guys like Cliffy B who tweets pics of his Lamborghini, which he worked for and rightfully deserves - but don't tell me he's broke.

I consider myself a collector, and my TG-16 and Saturn library would be impossible if I couldn't buy and trade games. I actively borrow and lend games. Blocking used games (or making them a pain in the a$$ to get and access) would really change the way I'd play games to the point where I may not anymore. I constantly play my older games. I will not be ok buying an xbone game and then not having access to it when xbone2 comes out and they kill the previous servers.

Digital games? I have Outrun and Double Dragon on my 360. Great games, you should download them - oh wait, you can't! Sega lost the Ferrari license and the company that brought Double Dragon closed shop. Both games were pulled from Xbox Live. I don't like buying something that I do not have in my possesion. And I will not accept that "all services come to an end" and "who plays old games?" Because I do. I still play NES games that are over 20 years old (and that I paid $50 for, so I really am not that excited about having to pay $5 for a WiiU virtual console version).

Developers need to regulate themselves better if selling a millions of copies of a game is not considered successful.

Grieverr