Japanese Developers 'Nervous' About Making (Wii) Games

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Developers 'Nervous' About Making Wii Games Japanese newspaper claims developers are worried about Wii's future.

UK, October 11, 2007 - Despite Nintendo reporting it can't keep up with demand for its Wii console, a Japanese newspaper is claiming that developers are concerned its bubble is about to burst, with some actually nervous about making titles for the motion-sensing machine, in case they don't sell.

This comes from The Nikkei Business Daily, which has been speaking to software houses about their thoughts on the future of Wii. Several developers claim that Nintendo has been the only beneficiary of Wii's success as it was able to predict demand for the console, while other publishers were forced to catch up quickly producing titles - some of which ended up as flops.

Meanwhile, others think that the Wii is only a fad and its popularity will fade. One unnamed president of a developer told Nikkei: "The Wii is like the 'Billy's Boot Camp' weight-loss program on DVD. People bought it out of curiosity, and it's likely a lot of them haven't used it".

According to Nikkei, concern is also growing in the Japanese industry after sales of Wii slowed considerably to just 168,000 units - the worst month of sales since December 2006. Now companies are "on guard for signs of a major change".

I call BS on these so-called developers. So... Nintendo could predict the unprecendented demand and the third parties couldn't? BS. They disregarded the system from the very start then produced shoddy games and cried when they didn't sell. Nintendo has been a large beneficiary as it's one of the few companies producing compelling content on the system. And they forget that games like red steel and rayman fromUbisoft have sold a million each and that games like RE4 have substantially surpassed expectations. Or that the announcement of Monster Hunter 3 on Wii has boosted Capcom's share price according to Bloomberg.

Sales of the wii have considerably dropped in Japan, but so have sales for just about everyone else (the PSP riding high with new hardware skus on offer has even dropped). They need to take an SAS approach: who dares wins. They can't sit on the sidelines, half ass their games with spin offs or rush jobs then complain about it.

I don't put much more stock in this article than I do in most mainstream articles about gaming. Not a single name of a person, developer, or publisher was given. Without something like that to back it up, I fail to see why thiseven qualifies as news. Journalism has gotten so shoddy it's ridiculous.

Yeah, looks like they all placed their bets too soon. Still, they are right to be nervous. Nothing they putout can compete against MP3 and SMG and theyknow it. I think the Wii is past the point when novelty mini games could make a developer a quick buck. At least until the next Mario Party comes along (shudders). I think Wiiware is the answer for those nervous devs.

Yeah, looks like they all placed their bets too soon. Still, they are right to be nervous. Nothing they putout can compete against MP3 and SMG and theyknow it. I think the Wii is past the point when novelty mini games could make a developer a quick buck. At least until the next Mario Party comes along (shudders). I think Wiiware is the answer for those nervous devs.

nopalversion

Well there is no doubt that metroid is a great game but it's hardly a commercial success for developers to be afraid of. The plain truth is that firstly, everyone expected the wii to bomb. Secondly they put all their eggs in the competitors baskets. Now they can't ramp up production, they are behind and are still trying to work out the sort of product they should be putting out, whilst still porting old titles and tarting them up.

EA made some brave stabs, but they also made ports and some shoddy games. Boogie costing £50 (making it the most expensive wii game - on a budget system) was a huge mistake and a 60% review average isn't endearing consumers to that title. They made a great stab at overhauling the Sims in My Sims yet sacrified depth for the building technique and missed most of what made the sims the sims. Now they are making trite like EA Playground and expecting that to do well. I think games companies should stop thinking about wii as some sort of casual, kiddy friendly shallow pool waiting to be milked and start thinking about it like they would any other home console platform. Make some great games, market them well. You'd have a hell of a lot more success that way. Even these spin offs like soul calibur legends seem like a poor afterthought and if it flops they have only themselves to blame.

EDIT: Capcom's share price reached a 5 year high from the Monster Hunter 3 announcement.

In terms of hardcore games, Nintendo has treated the Wii like the GC2. Most third parties don't have much development experience with the GC (which may explain why most third party Wii games look like garbage), and fewer still experienced much success. So I don't see why anyone is shocked and horrified that many third parties are following in Nintendo's footsteps, offering the same level of support they did to the GC, plus casual games.

If Nintendo went farther outside of its comfort zone and experienced commercial success doing it, doubtless third parties would follow. Sony didn't just hope that third parties who tended to release first person shooters on the Xbox would see the light, they published Resistance, which showed that there is a big market for first person shooters (in relative if not absolute terms) on the PS3. MS didn't merely hope that makers of family friendly games would see the light, it put its money where its mouth was and funded Viva Pinata (a commercial failure, but an interesting game nonetheless).

Well, the entire market in Japan is one giant sea of doubt. I don't think there's any platform (save the DS) that developers really can feel comfortable with in the territory. The 360? Not even a question. The PS3? Nope. The Wii? Maybe if you're Nintendo.

The problem isn't the Wii, or the PS3, or even the 360, necessarily, but the Japanese public. No one really knows what they are thinking, and then there's always the possibility that the market is simply dying off over there (as it showed signs of doing a few years back) and it's been on life support thanks to the Wii, DS and PS2.

If I were a Japanese developer/publisher, I wouldn't concern myself with figuring out what will make an already finicky market buy my product, I'd worry about selling my product in two vastly larger markets that buy games in established patterns. Big and predictable versus finicky and tiny? C'mon devs, it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

If Nintendo went farther outside of its comfort zone and experienced commercial success doing it, doubtless third parties would follow. Sony didn't just hope that third parties who tended to release first person shooters on the Xbox would see the light, they published ResistanceCarnageHeart

Nintendo published Metroid Prime. Games like Red Steel and Resident Evil 4 have sold well. So I really don't think it's Nintendo's fault that developers aren't making other type of games successfully on the Wii. It really is developer laziness and they got what they deserved for those poor games - poor sales.

Quite honestly the only 3rd party developer I feel for is Konami as they are the only ones who deserved better. They created two original and intriguing games. Elebits which got little to no marketing and Dewey's adventure which seemed a baby stillborn. Why does no 3PD bother advertising? It's what's changed Nintendo's fortune.

Every other house (especially ubisoft) got much better than they deserved for their efforts so far. As GG said shunning the system offhand and then playing catch up with rush port jobs and poor mini game compilation deserves little reward so they have no grounds for complaining.

I'm sure all the good 3rd party devs in Japan (capcom, atlus, konami etc) will do good business on the Wii as they do on the DS.

I'm sure all the good 3rd party devs in Japan (capcom, atlus, konami etc) will do good business on the Wii as they do on the DS.

bugsonglass

I've heard good buzz on Elebits, but Konami has basically put all their eggs in the Metal Gear basket. There was a time when Konami shot out awesome game after awesome game, but now they're kind of irrelevant save for Metal Gear and Silent Hill. I think that is a much more concerning trend that goes well beyond just being a Wii problem.

Atlus kicks ass, but they only print, like, three dozen copies of each game they make. There have been times that I've wanted to buy an Atlus game (right after release, no less) and have been unable to locate a copy. Atlus seems very content being a "coulda been" company based on the way their titles get distributed and advertised. I realize they are a small house and all that, but still.

If I were a Japanese developer/publisher, I wouldn't concern myself with figuring out what will make an already finicky market buy my product, I'd worry about selling my product in two vastly larger markets that buy games in established patterns. Big and predictable versus finicky and tiny? C'mon devs, it doesn't take a rocket scientist.

Shame-usBlackley

Also, according to sales numbers, this year there's been a shift in balance in DS software sales, where last year, Nintendo accounted for over 3/4's of game sales on the DS, and this year they've drifted to about 1/2 of game sales, indicating, to a degree, a shift into a more balanced software market share in Japan on Nintendo platforms.

Lastly, the creation of the likes of WiiWare will probably ease developer worries to some degree regarding making games, due to how it, as well as other Online distribution models, allow for companies to more easily produce a game without a publisher, taking lower risks as a result, and can put out games at lower price points for consumers, both small scale and larger scale games.

the market is simply dying off over there Shame-usBlackley

[QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"] the market is simply dying off over there ymi_basic

The market has been in a decline from about 1997 until 2004/5, so it's at least promising to see a sort of upward trend in that market.

Well, Capcom's doing something that's a safe bet for them. By taking a franchise that predictably sells in big numbers, Monster Hunter, and moving it as an exclusive on the Wii at this phase shows some shift in developer approach in the Japanese market.

Skylock00

Yeah, Monster Hunter is pretty much only popular in Japan, so that makes sense. I was put off by the news at first, as it seemed to contradict Capcom's global focus, but then I realized that was exactly what they were doing. It's a series that has only done well in Japan, so the move makes sense. I also noticed in Capcom's talk they mentioned the high cost of time and resources being a factor in the move from PS3 to Wii, and that's something I've been expecting to happen sooner.

But my point still is that Japanese companies worrying themselves over Japan is myopic. It's like looking in your pantry and worrying about food when there's a twelve course feast on your dining table. The other two-thirds of the market should be the focus. It's bigger and less unpredictable when it comes to what sells and what doesn't.

[QUOTE="Skylock00"]Well, Capcom's doing something that's a safe bet for them. By taking a franchise that predictably sells in big numbers, Monster Hunter, and moving it as an exclusive on the Wii at this phase shows some shift in developer approach in the Japanese market.

Shame-usBlackley

Yeah, Monster Hunter is pretty much only popular in Japan, so that makes sense. I was put off by the news at first, as it seemed to contradict Capcom's global focus, but then I realized that was exactly what they were doing. It's a series that has only done well in Japan, so the move makes sense. I also noticed in Capcom's talk they mentioned the high cost of time and resources being a factor in the move from PS3 to Wii, and that's something I've been expecting to happen sooner.

But my point still is that Japanese companies worrying themselves over Japan is myopic. It's like looking in your pantry and worrying about food when there's a twelve course feast on your dining table. The other two-thirds of the market should be the focus. It's bigger and less unpredictable when it comes to what sells and what doesn't.

[QUOTE="bugsonglass"]

I'm sure all the good 3rd party devs in Japan (capcom, atlus, konami etc) will do good business on the Wii as they do on the DS.

Shame-usBlackley

I've heard good buzz on Elebits, but Konami has basically put all their eggs in the Metal Gear basket.

It's a great little game but it's one of those games that must be a nightmare to market. To actually explain in a limited time how its played and what's it's about. Even looking at a single screen can be confusing as to what it is and what it's trying to acheive. There's a great character and sty-le about the game too, if only they would push it more. Look at the trailer, it's quirky fun character designs and a great playful atmosphere.

Elebits-trailer

review

I'll hate campcom if they cancel re5 and dmc4. That doesn't make sense as both games have always been on a sony console! :cry: gamingqueen

Remembering that RE4 launched on the GC and Code Veronica launched on the DC, so while I see what you are saying, Capcom have done fairly long exclusive launches on consoles not made by Sony.

I'll hate campcom if they cancel re5 and dmc4. That doesn't make sense as both games have always been on a sony console! :cry: gamingqueen

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]I'll hate campcom if they cancel re5 and dmc4. That doesn't make sense as both games have always been on a sony console! :cry: aspro73

Remembering that RE4 launched on the GC and Code Veronica launched on the DC, so while I see what you are saying, Capcom have done fairly long exclusive launches on consoles not made by Sony.

Don't say it :cry: Don't DON'T! more words on this I'll fly to Japan and threat to kill myself infront of their building! :cry:

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]I'll hate campcom if they cancel re5 and dmc4. That doesn't make sense as both games have always been on a sony console! :cry: MAILER_DAEMON

Well re5 yeah but not dmc please don't let be dmc4! :cry:

seriously they abandoned ps3 owners :| I'm so disappointed and I've been duped. mgs4 and ff better be good.

[QUOTE="MAILER_DAEMON"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]I'll hate campcom if they cancel re5 and dmc4. That doesn't make sense as both games have always been on a sony console! :cry: gamingqueen

Well re5 yeah but not dmc please don't let be dmc4! :cry:

seriously they abandoned ps3 owners :| I'm so disappointed and I've been duped. mgs4 and ff better be good.

[QUOTE="MAILER_DAEMON"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]I'll hate campcom if they cancel re5 and dmc4. That doesn't make sense as both games have always been on a sony console! :cry: gamingqueen

Well re5 yeah but not dmc please don't let be dmc4! :cry:

seriously they abandoned ps3 owners :| I'm so disappointed and I've been duped. mgs4 and ff better be good.

Oh, for God's sake. You still get to play the game! Devil May Cry is not going to be cancelled for the PS3 since it's being released as a multiplatform game.

Am I reading this right that it bothers you that other people get to play Devil May Cry as well? Just because a series "belongs" on a platform? Seriously? If you are a fan of the game, then you'll be happy that more people get to appreciate it. If you are a fan of monickers, then I could see that bothering you.

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

[QUOTE="MAILER_DAEMON"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]I'll hate campcom if they cancel re5 and dmc4. That doesn't make sense as both games have always been on a sony console! :cry: rragnaar

Well re5 yeah but not dmc please don't let be dmc4! :cry:

seriously they abandoned ps3 owners :| I'm so disappointed and I've been duped. mgs4 and ff better be good.

you know what? I like you *a big hug* :cry: but what about those two?? re5 amd dmc4???

I don't blame these guys. At some point people are going to get beyond the motion snesing and realize that they have what is basically a last gen product. If Nintnedo is really pulling in some non traditional gamers can they expect that those people are really going to continue to invest in games or are they just riding a fad that will die.

This is not BS, this is an issue that has long been on peoples minds.

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

[QUOTE="MAILER_DAEMON"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]I'll hate campcom if they cancel re5 and dmc4. That doesn't make sense as both games have always been on a sony console! :cry: Shame-usBlackley

Well re5 yeah but not dmc please don't let be dmc4! :cry:

seriously they abandoned ps3 owners :| I'm so disappointed and I've been duped. mgs4 and ff better be good.

Oh, for God's sake. You still get to play the game!

Does it really bother you that other people get to play Devil May Cryas well? Just because a series "belongs" on a platform? Seriously? If you are a fan of the game, then you'll be happy that more people get to appreciate it. If you are a fan of monickers, then I could see that bothering you.

No that! some said that they might DROP/Cancel re5 and dmc 4 for the ps3 not that why are they multi-plat :o didn't you hear? It's why I freaked out! I'd love that everyone gets to enjoy capcom's games come on! :oops:

No that! some said that they might DROP/Cancel re5 and dmc 4 for the ps3 not that why are they multi-plat :o didn't you hear? It's why I freaked out! I'd love that everyone gets to enjoy capcom's games come on! :oops:

gamingqueen

Ah, okay. :)

But whoever told you that Capcom might take two games that are obviously way far along in production and move them to another platform that would require a complete retooling of the assets and engine is completely and utterly full of beans.

Now, I wouldn't rule out a version of RE5 appearing on the Wii, but it certainly wouldn't appear in lieu of the one already well into production. It just ain't gonna happen.

[QUOTE="gamingqueen"]

No that! some said that they might DROP/Cancel re5 and dmc 4 for the ps3 not that why are they multi-plat :o didn't you hear? It's why I freaked out! I'd love that everyone gets to enjoy capcom's games come on! :oops:

Shame-usBlackley

Ah, okay. :)

But whoever told you that Capcom might take two games that are obviously way far along in production and move them to another platform that would require a complete retooling of the assets and engine is completely and utterly full of beans.

Now, I wouldn't rule out a version of RE5 appearing on the Wii, but it certainly wouldn't appear in lieu of the one already well into production. It just ain't gonna happen.

There hasn't even been a big ground up game for the Wii yet. :|

No I mean seriously the majority of the games on the Wii have been ports by third parties.

Nintendo published Metroid Prime. Games like Red Steel and Resident Evil 4 have sold well. So I really don't think it's Nintendo's fault that developers aren't making other type of games successfully on the Wii. It really is developer laziness and they got what they deserved for those poor games - poor sales.

Grieverr

Not to mention Fire Emblem, Batallion Wars, and Brawl.

[QUOTE="ymi_basic"][QUOTE="Shame-usBlackley"] the market is simply dying off over there Skylock00

The market has been in a decline from about 1997 until 2004/5, so it's at least promising to see a sort of upward trend in that market.

You bring up a good point though. I wonder if there would be much talk of the massive growth of gaming worldwide if the DS didn't exist.

[QUOTE="bugsonglass"]

I'm sure all the good 3rd party devs in Japan (capcom, atlus, konami etc) will do good business on the Wii as they do on the DS.

Shame-usBlackley

I've heard good buzz on Elebits, but Konami has basically put all their eggs in the Metal Gear basket. There was a time when Konami shot out awesome game after awesome game, but now they're kind of irrelevant save for Metal Gear and Silent Hill. I think that is a much more concerning trend that goes well beyond just being a Wii problem.

Atlus kicks ass, but they only print, like, three dozen copies of each game they make. There have been times that I've wanted to buy an Atlus game (right after release, no less) and have been unable to locate a copy. Atlus seems very content being a "coulda been" company based on the way their titles get distributed and advertised. I realize they are a small house and all that, but still.

Let's not forget Pro Evolution Soccer/Winning Eleven! As long as Konami keep their "beautiful game" more beautiful than EA's FIFA yearly instalment after yearly instalment, then their livelihood is never in danger

I agree, it doesn't seem to be dying here at all. I've expected it to happen, but the market strength here surprises me. I think there is a big market here that uses games as a sort of fantasy escapism where traditionally books or movies were used.For me, videogames have been more of substitute for activities like playing pool or ping-pong. I still greatly prefer books and movies for storytelling. I think that's why I'm not in touch with the market.

You bring up a good point though. I wonder if there would be much talk of the massive growth of gaming worldwide if the DS didn't exist.

ymi_basic

The reason the market keeps growing in North America (not saying Europe, Australia, etc. because I am not familar with their market growth or performance) is because of the DS and Wii IMO.

Now I'm not saying that gaming was for fact going to go down in North America, but if you look at it there some things to support your statement. It seems that America was following Japan as of how it's gaming market declined.

Now this is off the top of my head so I'm doing things as of I remembered them I'm not doing research as I'm doing this so bear with me here and try not to take this too seriously.

Japan's market declined over the following.

#1 Market Appeal - Games seemed to focus mostly on the stream and core gamer. This would explain why the top selling games on the list were in genral for that market. This is also why you're starting to see games like Call of Duty, Gear of War, Saints Row, and what not take the charts. You're starting to see more and more of those types of games take the charts and sell well instead of simple games like before time. (please correct me if I'm wrong)

#2 Price - The SNES was priced at $210 at launch, the SEGA Genesis for even less (assuming the same for the TB-16). However when the next generation came the PSX's price was much more expensive then the SNES and the Saturn (which got 2nd place in Japan) almost or did double it. Sorta like how the Xbox 360 is more expensive then the Xbox and the PS3 doubles the PS2's launch price?

#3 Same old same old - While their was a little more variety then it still didn't help that most games that came out where Fighting Games or JRPG's. Very similar to now that most games that come out are either Shooters or Licensed games.

#4 People were ready for something new - Gaming in Japan was more popular then the Westand had reach mainstream status for a while (though not as long as the stereotype), so I assume that most people just wanted to move on to something however in the West it was just getting mainstream

#5 Development Costs - It was kinda hard for some developers to break even, especially since many people world wide had a CG fetish. I mean most Japanese games sell only really well in Japan unlike Western games that sell well everywhere but. Many companies learned this the hardware such with Vagrant Story, Chrono Cross, and Street Fighter III. Similar to how we seem to be complaining of costs now.

Again not saying that there for a fact would've been a gaming recession last gen, heck I even didn't cover somethings that go against it, I'm just saying that there are some points to support your statement. :)

EDIT - How do I make "spoiler" tags?

I agree, it doesn't seem to be dying here at all. I've expected it to happen, but the market strength here surprises me. I think there is a big market here that uses games as a sort of fantasy escapism where traditionally books or movies were used.For me, videogames have been more of substitute for activities like playing pool or ping-pong. I still greatly prefer books and movies for storytelling. I think that's why I'm not in touch with the market.

You bring up a good point though. I wonder if there would be much talk of the massive growth of gaming worldwide if the DS didn't exist.

ymi_basic

Currently, the Japanese market is almost as large (or even larger)overall, according to numbers, as it was back in 1997, though there's a higher level of hardware sales, and lower level of software sales at the moment when comparing the two. According to sources like Media create and the such, the primary reason for the market actually increasing has been Nintendo's DS, and now the Wii, with recent rise also being partially being spurred by the likes of the PS2 and PS3.

It's not as big as western markets, but the Japanese market isn't in a recession in gaming anymore at this stage.

We'll see what happens this holidays and next year. Also, I think everyone should know by now that the Japanese video game market is just asbizarre as their quirky mangas and animes. It's so unpredictable. One minute the PSP is trailing the DS, put out a new model, next thing you know the PSP Slim is the biggest seller. Monster Hunter is Japan's GTA while Monster Hunter doesn't even have a niche in the states. No matter how many Gundam and Dragon Ball Z games come out, they always, ALWAYS top the sales charts. Weird market, a market I will never, ever understand.

I know how to sell more Wii's...make Dragon Ball Z and Gundam games Wii-exclusive, than I guarantee you the Wii will win in Japan. :D

Am I reading this right that it bothers you that other people get to play Devil May Cry as well? Just because a series "belongs" on a platform? Seriously? If you are a fan of the game, then you'll be happy that more people get to appreciate it. If you are a fan of monickers, then I could see that bothering you.

Shame-usBlackley

Well it depends, some games that stay exclusives push the systems hardware, appeal to the systems audience, and utlizes the Systems Capablities.

This is why I agree that Metal Gear Solid 4 should stay PS3 exclusive (even though I don't own one), though I think Devil May Cry 4 should be multiplatform.

I know how to sell more Wii's...make Dragon Ball Z and Gundam games Wii-exclusive, than I guarantee you the Wii will win in Japan. :D

ASK_Story

First of all not all DBZ and Gundam games sell like hotcakes in Japan.

Second of all considering that the Wonderswan had both Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest as exclusives and still failed, I doubt that.

I know you were joking just pointing it out.

Well, regarding the market, I'm talking primarily regarding the Japanese Market, and nothing else. I should've been more clear. ;)

Currently, the Japanese market is almost as large (or even larger)overall, according to numbers, as it was back in 1997, though there's a higher level of hardware sales, and lower level of software sales at the moment when comparing the two. According to sources like Media create and the such, the primary reason for the market actually increasing has been Nintendo's DS, and now the Wii, with recent rise also being partially being spurred by the likes of the PS2 and PS3.

It's not as big as western markets, but the Japanese market isn't in a recession in gaming anymore at this stage.

Skylock00

I agree, but I still feel bumed out that the "core" gaming market is still shrinking there.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

If Nintendo went farther outside of its comfort zone and experienced commercial success doing it, doubtless third parties would follow. Sony didn't just hope that third parties who tended to release first person shooters on the Xbox would see the light, they published ResistanceGrieverr

Nintendo published Metroid Prime. Games like Red Steel and Resident Evil 4 have sold well. So I really don't think it's Nintendo's fault that developers aren't making other type of games successfully on the Wii. It really is developer laziness and they got what they deserved for those poor games - poor sales.

Metroid dates back to the 8 bit days, so Nintendo releasing Metroid Prime 3 on the Wii is kind of the opposite of moving out of its comfort zone. As for RE4, its a conservative port (albeit of a brilliant game), which seems to be what some people in this thread are condemning third parties for.

I am not saying that its Nintendo's fault that third parties aren't offering stronger support, I am just saying that Nintendo hasn't really done all it could to encourage such support. Third parties tend to be conservative, follow the leader types (the success of FF7 meant everybody started bringing rpgs to the PS1, the success of Halo made everyone start offering first person shooters on the Xbox, etc.). If Nintendo really wants X genre to appear on the Wii, why not spend a little money and pay someone to make that type of game? If it does well, more such games would follow.

[QUOTE="MAILER_DAEMON"][QUOTE="gamingqueen"]I'll hate campcom if they cancel re5 and dmc4. That doesn't make sense as both games have always been on a sony console! :cry: gamingqueen

Well re5 yeah but not dmc please don't let be dmc4! :cry:

seriously they abandoned ps3 owners :| I'm so disappointed and I've been duped. mgs4 and ff better be good.

I don't think Monster Hunter going to the Wii is a big deal or a sign of anything. Its a franchise that failed everywhere except Japan, so the calculations about it are different than the calculations of games like RE and DMC, which enjoy more support outside Japan than they do in it.