New Game From Doublefine!!! Epic Fighters!

I did the best I could and had fun in the processviberooni

GOD DAMN! The ending scorched my eyes! Wickid!

In absolute honesty, this is better than Psychonauts which was a cool concept, but painfully average in execution. Hopefully, Shafer will stop trying to make a kiddy mass appeal game and just do what he does best.

GOD DAMN! The ending scorched my eyes! Wickid!

In absolute honesty, this is better than Psychonauts which was a cool concept, but painfully average in execution. Hopefully, Shafer will stop trying to make a kiddy mass appeal game and just do what he does best.

UpInFlames

Are you kidding me? I'll grant you that certain elements of Psychonauts were average. (such as technical graphics proficiency and it could have used a bit more polish/bug fixing) But the positives, such as brilliant story, solid score, stellar level design, incredible sense of humor,great voice acting, andhighly fantastic art style,so far outweigh any negatives that might come to mind.

[QUOTE="UpInFlames"]

GOD DAMN! The ending scorched my eyes! Wickid!

In absolute honesty, this is better than Psychonauts which was a cool concept, but painfully average in execution. Hopefully, Shafer will stop trying to make a kiddy mass appeal game and just do what he does best.

dchan01

Are you kidding me? I'll grant you that certain elements of Psychonauts were average. (such as technical graphics proficiency and it could have used a bit more polish/bug fixing) But the positives, such as brilliant story, solid score, stellar level design, incredible sense of humor,great voice acting, andhighly fantastic art style,so far outweigh any negatives that might come to mind.

Are you kidding me? I'll grant you that certain elements of Psychonauts were average. (such as technical graphics proficiency and it could have used a bit more polish/bug fixing) But the positives, such as brilliant story, solid score, stellar level design, incredible sense of humor,great voice acting, andhighly fantastic art style,so far outweigh any negatives that might come to mind.dchan01

Yeah, I found pretty much every aspect of the game to be rather average - I finished the first level, fooled around in the gameworld a bit and realized that I'm bored out of my mind. Personally, I think Psychonauts is the most overrated niche game in existance especially considering that it was released about the same time as Oddworld Stranger's Wrath which sold even worse, but unlike Psychonauts, it was a truly unique, creative, humorous, very well designed, and fun game.

[QUOTE="dchan01"]Are you kidding me? I'll grant you that certain elements of Psychonauts were average. (such as technical graphics proficiency and it could have used a bit more polish/bug fixing) But the positives, such as brilliant story, solid score, stellar level design, incredible sense of humor,great voice acting, andhighly fantastic art style,so far outweigh any negatives that might come to mind.UpInFlames

Yeah, I found pretty much every aspect of the game to be rather average - I finished the first level, fooled around in the gameworld a bit and realized that I'm bored out of my mind. Personally, I think Psychonauts is the most overrated niche game in existance especially considering that it was released about the same time as Oddworld Stranger's Wrath which sold even worse, but unlike Psychonauts, it was a truly unique, creative, humorous, very well designed, and fun game.

Okay now I understand where you are coming from. Psychonauts is one of those rare games that doesn't blow its wad in the first fifteen minutes. Each level is better than the last and you really need to make it about half way before you understand where the zealots thisgame has attracted arecoming from. I too found the first level quite standard and boring. Keep going. I can assure you that by the time you make it to the Milkman Consipiracy, the Napoleon Complex, or the Lungfish level you will be fully converted. I also found the ending to be amazingly poignant and worthwhile.

Would it be wrong for me to say that I would actually pay full price for this game?Dencore

Psychonauts for the record is the opposite of a kiddy mass appeal game, although Schafer knew a certain percentage wouldn't get it and so Psychonauts has two levels so everyone would buy it.

On the deeper level, look up Aaron Beck's cognitive distortions and go from there if you want to know what Schafer was doing. The Milkman level, to me, is the scariest level in all of video games. I know some of you were quoting the Milkman when the game came out, but that guy terrified me. The Napoleon level was just a throw-away level that was great. Et je connais les francais. Quite a game.

I couldn't have loved it more.

[QUOTE="UpInFlames"]

[QUOTE="dchan01"]Are you kidding me? I'll grant you that certain elements of Psychonauts were average. (such as technical graphics proficiency and it could have used a bit more polish/bug fixing) But the positives, such as brilliant story, solid score, stellar level design, incredible sense of humor,great voice acting, andhighly fantastic art style,so far outweigh any negatives that might come to mind.dchan01

Yeah, I found pretty much every aspect of the game to be rather average - I finished the first level, fooled around in the gameworld a bit and realized that I'm bored out of my mind. Personally, I think Psychonauts is the most overrated niche game in existance especially considering that it was released about the same time as Oddworld Stranger's Wrath which sold even worse, but unlike Psychonauts, it was a truly unique, creative, humorous, very well designed, and fun game.

Okay now I understand where you are coming from. Psychonauts is one of those rare games that doesn't blow its wad in the first fifteen minutes. Each level is better than the last and you really need to make it about half way before you understand where the zealots thisgame has attracted arecoming from. I too found the first level quite standard and boring. Keep going. I can assure you that by the time you make it to the Milkman Consipiracy, the Napoleon Complex, or the Lungfish level you will be fully converted. I also found the ending to be amazingly poignant and worthwhile.

co-sign on this 100%.. can't believe you stopped playing Psychonauts after the basic braining level UpInFlames, it's really something that gets better, more creative and more enjoyable to play the further in you go. Gameplay becomes more diverse, the level design is brilliant - some of the most imaginative stuff I've ever come across, dialogue and sound is fantastic and at times hilarious, superlatives, etc.

One of the biggest knocks on the game continues to be its slow beginning and three tutorial levels (of which the first is undoubtedly the worst) before the real meat of the game starts. No need to call a title out for being overrated and average when you haven't really experienced what makes it so loved by people.

co-sign on this 100%.. can't believe you stopped playing Psychonauts after the basic braining level UpInFlames, it's really something that gets better, more creative and more enjoyable to play the further in you go. Gameplay becomes more diverse, the level design is brilliant - some of the most imaginative stuff I've ever come across, dialogue and sound is fantastic and at times hilarious, superlatives, etc.

One of the biggest knocks on the game continues to be its slow beginning and three tutorial levels (of which the first is undoubtedly the worst) before the real meat of the game starts. No need to call a title out for being overrated and average when you haven't really experienced what makes it so loved by people.viberooni

If a game fails to grab me within the first hour or so, then I'm sorry, but I don't have time to waste to wait for the game to get better andit deserves to be hammered for it. It's the same with Killer7, people say it gets better later on - that's really not my problem, but the game's. If I'm bored out of my mind, I quit. There are far too many games out there and not enough time for me to play them as it is.

That said, I get what you guys are saying, perhaps I'll give it another chance someday.

If a game fails to grab me within the first hour or so, then I'm sorry, but I don't have time to waste to wait for the game to get better andit deserves to be hammered for it. It's the same with Killer7, people say it gets better later on - that's really not my problem, but the game's. If I'm bored out of my mind, I quit. There are far too many games out there and not enough time for me to play them as it is.UpInFlames

These two games were among some of my overall favorite games of the past generation, so I'd say that the slow intro is worth the rest of the experience, from my side of the rails.

I'm used to games having slow expositions, being someone who's played enough RPGs and such to feel fine sitting through an intro that takes 1-3 hours to really get through.Skylock00

That's different, though. RPG's tend to be some 40 hours long with massive ones having basically no hour cap whatsoever. Strategy games are also a good example. I know it took me several days to really get the hang of the basics in Civilization when I first played it. The thing is, those are complex and long games - you could play Civ IV for years. Both Psychonauts and Killer7 are, what, 10-12 hours long? Am I really expected to endure 5 hours of boredom to get to the good parts?

[QUOTE="Skylock00"]I'm used to games having slow expositions, being someone who's played enough RPGs and such to feel fine sitting through an intro that takes 1-3 hours to really get through.UpInFlames

Your complaint was that the games took too long to get started, which I viewed as independent of any other complaint you might have, so I was merely countering that point as it is.

5 hours? As I said, the intros for these games took me no longer than 1-3 hours, more or less, and given how much overall time I invested in these games (Psychonauts was ultimately in the 15-20 hour range by the time I was done, and Killer7 was a game that I had to play through multiple times to really get a full sense of the story, and because I enjoyed the gameplay so much), felt like nothing.

Your complaint was that the games took too long to get started, which I viewed as independent of any other complaint you might have, so I was merely countering that point as it is.Skylock00

It's a matter of the end pay-off, I have no problem investing a lot of time in a grand, complex game that'll give me subsequent months of enjoyment. Shorter games haven't got the luxury of a slow start - a 3 hour intro to a 12 hour game is way too much time, hell, an hour is pushing it, in my opinion.

Of course that the complaint is not independent of the other ones, I simply felt that the game didn't providea real incentive to keep playing after an hour or so. I can overlook many flaws if a game offers something else in return, but I have absolutely zero tolerance for games that make me quit out of sheer boredom, and for that reason I'm extra harsh on them.

I can overlook many flaws if a game offers something else in return, but I have absolutely zero tolerance for games that make me quit out of sheer boredom, and for that reason I'm extra harsh on them.UpInFlames

On the other hand, I also studied minimalism/process music extensively in college, and have a /very/ high tolerance for slow pacing and things that others consider 'boring' after a few iterations. :P But that might not have anything to do with this.

[QUOTE="viberooni"]co-sign on this 100%.. can't believe you stopped playing Psychonauts after the basic braining level UpInFlames, it's really something that gets better, more creative and more enjoyable to play the further in you go. Gameplay becomes more diverse, the level design is brilliant - some of the most imaginative stuff I've ever come across, dialogue and sound is fantastic and at times hilarious, superlatives, etc.

One of the biggest knocks on the game continues to be its slow beginning and three tutorial levels (of which the first is undoubtedly the worst) before the real meat of the game starts. No need to call a title out for being overrated and average when you haven't really experienced what makes it so loved by people.UpInFlames

If a game fails to grab me within the first hour or so, then I'm sorry, but I don't have time to waste to wait for the game to get better andit deserves to be hammered for it. It's the same with Killer7, people say it gets better later on - that's really not my problem, but the game's. If I'm bored out of my mind, I quit. There are far too many games out there and not enough time for me to play them as it is.

That said, I get what you guys are saying, perhaps I'll give it another chance someday.

I don't know, it's not about whose fault it is, you just missed out on 2 really good games, but as you said there are enough other great games to spend your time on so it's all ok.

I understand your stance, my feeling is that the sheer experience that games like Shadow of the Colossus...Skylock00

Hey, keep Shadow of the Colossus out of this, that game was brilliant from the second the intro cutscene started. :P You also encounter the first colossus within the first 20 minutes of gameplay. :wink:

[QUOTE="Skylock00"]I understand your stance, my feeling is that the sheer experience that games like Shadow of the Colossus...UpInFlames

IMHO, if you're going to call out games like Psychonauts and Killer7 for having slow intros, games having slow stretches of middle sections should also be on the chop block. That's just my view, and doesn't detract from the fact that I felt that all three of the games I mentioned are among my favorite for the past generation...so I personally have no problem with the design choices.

And other colossus could take upwards of Thirty minute to an hour of doing nothing but riding a horse, figuring out where to go, which I feel is kind of worse, because I felt that Shadow of the Colossus was overall shorter than either Killer7 or Psychonauts at its core for a single playthrough.

IMHO, if you're going to call out games like Psychonauts and Killer7 for having slow intros, games having slow stretches of middle sections should also be on the chop block. That's just my view, and doesn't detract from the fact that I felt that all three of the games I mentioned are among my favorite for the past generation...so I personally have no problem with the design choices.Skylock00

Oh, I definitely agree that Shadow of the Colossus had poor pacing, and I wish there was something more to do in the gameworld, but the game managed to provide the hook by introducing the first colossus very early on. By the time I was figuring out how the hell to find the next colossus, it was already over - I was hooked and couldn't wait to see what's next.

If Psychonauts and Killer7 managed to do so as well, we wouldn't be having this conversation. :wink:

Oh, I definitely agree that Shadow of the Colossus had poor pacing, and I wish there was something more to do in the gameworld, but the game managed to provide the hook by introducing the first colossus very early on. By the time I was figuring out how the hell to find the next colossus, it was already over - I was hooked and couldn't wait to see what's next.UpInFlames

If Psychonauts and Killer7 managed to do so as well, we wouldn't be having this conversation. :wink:

It just doesn't seem that valid, to me, to praise one game that has a short into, but bad pacing, and is a short game, but pan other games that have an overall shorter amount of down time across the game, are longer than aforementioned game, but have most of that downtime closer to the beginning. That's just me, though.

But Fumito's games are meant to be like that. Story is being told through gameplay is not soemthing easy to acheive and he succeeded in both games. Who could not understand ico and wanda's body language? Holding hands means they're in love and having a dirty face with horns means he's possesed by the dormin as simple as that! gamingqueen

For the record I enjoy the training and camp areas in Psychonauts, especially inside Agent Nein's head, though I have a higher tolerance for collect-a-thons than some so hunting around for arrowheads doesn't bother me. It's not just hours of needless tutorial like in Kingdom Hearts 2, it's full of optional exposition and explortation that sets the stage for the rest of the game (which takes up the vast majority of the 20 hours or so total playtime).

Nothing wrong with not being able to get into a game (hell, it happened to me with Killer 7) but i'll still reserve final judgement on a game's overall quality and merits after my first impressions, no matter if it was overly negative or positive. Especially concerning a game like Psychonauts that kicks into gears as you play and doesn't spell out what makes it so special from the get go.

Anyway, concerning Epic Fighter, there's a great companion comic strip available on the Double Fine website for our amusement. It's addictive, especially if you were a fan of the early SCUMM LucasArts adventures.