New Hitman Absolution Trailer

New trailer released for Hitman Absolution. Trailer is called "Art Of the Kill"

Here's the trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzTHY3eiWVs

I have yet to see any emphasis on disguises. So what do you guys think of the new trailer? Look familiar, excited, not excited, worried?

I for one am still worried. All they had to do was take Blood Money & improve that concept. So far it seems all that has been shown is cover, killing, & shooting.

Part of that trailer shows him taking a disguise and walking past guards:roll:

How much more emphasis do you want them to put on it? The trailer even says "Are you a silent assassin or do you want to kill everyone in your way?" and shows 47 hiding a body and waiting in a closet, then shooting a bunch of people.

If anything I think this trailer finally shows that it is, in fact, giving players options.

Part of that trailer shows him taking a disguise and walking past guards:roll:

How much more emphasis do you want them to put on it? The trailer even says "Are you a silent assassin or do you want to kill everyone in your way?" and shows 47 hiding a body and waiting in a closet, then shooting a bunch of people.

If anything I think this trailer finally shows that it is, in fact, giving players options.

IndianaPwns39

From a designer perspective it seems more action oriented. The levels seem purely designed around cover. It looks like its making the exact same mistakes Conviction made. It even has the same Detection meter.

For example it feels looks like every area is designded around having many guards who are agressively searching for Agent 47. There is nothing organic here. Where as in Blood Money the areas consisted of many varied & regular people just going about their business. It felt very real, very organic & authentic.

Just say you take any mission from Blood Money. Well take Opera House, or the Wedding level. Instead of the level being populated by many varied, regular people & some regular guards you instead of the entire place fitted with nothing but enemies ( Guards ) searching for 47 & yelling " i know you're here 47, come get some".

Conviction made the same mistake. There was nothing organic. Literally the entire game, every area consisted of hired guards on the hunt for Fisher. In terms of game design its lazy, unimaginitive & terrible game design. Nothing organic about it. I can see the same type of game design from these trailers.

Keep in my mind this is only my 1st impression from a trailer. I could be jumping to wild conclusions but thats just me being very worried & cautious on what i see after what happened with Conviction.

The game could be drasticlly different but so far this is what i see & im not impressed. I think what we need to see is a full ( or just part of ) sandbox level populated by regular people & regular guards going about their job. while trying to discreetly find ways to get close to & kill off your target.

Ive never played Hitman before, but this game looks awesome.

New trailer released for Hitman Absolution. Trailer is called "Art Of the Kill"

Here's the trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzTHY3eiWVs

I have yet to see any emphasis on disguises. So what do you guys think of the new trailer? Look familiar, excited, not excited, worried?

I for one am still worried. All they had to do was take Blood Money & improve that concept. So far it seems all that has been shown is cover, killing, & shooting.

brucecambell

[QUOTE="brucecambell"]

New trailer released for Hitman Absolution. Trailer is called "Art Of the Kill"

Here's the trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzTHY3eiWVs

I have yet to see any emphasis on disguises. So what do you guys think of the new trailer? Look familiar, excited, not excited, worried?

I for one am still worried. All they had to do was take Blood Money & improve that concept. So far it seems all that has been shown is cover, killing, & shooting.

campzor

The inception horn is awesome though...

[QUOTE="campzor"][QUOTE="brucecambell"]

New trailer released for Hitman Absolution. Trailer is called "Art Of the Kill"

Here's the trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzTHY3eiWVs

I have yet to see any emphasis on disguises. So what do you guys think of the new trailer? Look familiar, excited, not excited, worried?

I for one am still worried. All they had to do was take Blood Money & improve that concept. So far it seems all that has been shown is cover, killing, & shooting.

crimsonman1245

The inception horn is awesome though...

1.Awesome trailer 2. Did they really have to include inception music BBGGGHHRRRRRRRRRR! in it? :/ 3. How did you not see any emphasis on disguises...did u just skip the bit where he kills a guard, takes his uniform and walks around other guardscampzor

No, i did see that. That part was from the 1st gameplay that was originally shown, it wasnt anything new. What i meant is that besides that part no disguise gameplay was shown.

Also that disguise wasnt even used up until the last minute of that level. Thats what i also meant by the lack of "Emphasis" on disguises.

Also there is a new trailer here. It starts at 0:50:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q28TeMgg0oI

[QUOTE="IndianaPwns39"]

Part of that trailer shows him taking a disguise and walking past guards:roll:

How much more emphasis do you want them to put on it? The trailer even says "Are you a silent assassin or do you want to kill everyone in your way?" and shows 47 hiding a body and waiting in a closet, then shooting a bunch of people.

If anything I think this trailer finally shows that it is, in fact, giving players options.

brucecambell

From a designer perspective it seems more action oriented. The levels seem purely designed around cover. It looks like its making the exact same mistakes Conviction made. It even has the same Detection meter.

For example it feels looks like every area is designded around having many guards who are agressively searching for Agent 47. There is nothing organic here. Where as in Blood Money the areas consisted of many varied & regular people just going about their business. It felt very real, very organic & authentic.

Just say you take any mission from Blood Money. Well take Opera House, or the Wedding level. Instead of the level being populated by many varied, regular people & some regular guards you instead of the entire place fitted with nothing but enemies ( Guards ) searching for 47 & yelling " i know you're here 47, come get some".

Conviction made the same mistake. There was nothing organic. Literally the entire game, every area consisted of hired guards on the hunt for Fisher. In terms of game design its lazy, unimaginitive & terrible game design. Nothing organic about it. I can see the same type of game design from these trailers.

Keep in my mind this is only my 1st impression from a trailer. I could be jumping to wild conclusions but thats just me being very worried & cautious on what i see after what happened with Conviction.

The game could be drasticlly different but so far this is what i see & im not impressed. I think what we need to see is a full ( or just part of ) sandbox level populated by regular people & regular guards going about their job. while trying to discreetly find ways to get close to & kill off your target.

I think you're jumping to conclusions. It's a 2 minute trailer that appears to show, what looks like at least, 3 levels from the game. You have the library level, that outdoors one, and the one inside a house with the nursery room and what not.

It also appears the library one is the only showcased with police actively seeking 47. For example, in the outdoor level he approaches two guards and they only stop him because he's holding a gun. When 47 grabs one the other guard looks confused and taken by surprise. It doesn't suggest they were actively hunting him. There will also probably be an option to holster your weapon.

Furthermore, there's a scene in the trailer depicting 47 walking through a group of civilians in what appears to be a Chinatown inspired design.

I think it's unfair to judge the game completely based off an ad designed to get people's attention. Of course they're going to showcase more explosions and the options to kill everyone. I think they did a pretty good job showing off other options and little snippets of what's to come.

From a designer perspective it seems more action oriented. The levels seem purely designed around cover. It looks like its making the exact same mistakes Conviction made. It even has the same Detection meter.

For example it feels looks like every area is designded around having many guards who are agressively searching for Agent 47. There is nothing organic here. Where as in Blood Money the areas consisted of many varied & regular people just going about their business. It felt very real, very organic & authentic.

Just say you take any mission from Blood Money. Well take Opera House, or the Wedding level. Instead of the level being populated by many varied, regular people & some regular guards you instead of the entire place fitted with nothing but enemies ( Guards ) searching for 47 & yelling " i know you're here 47, come get some".

Conviction made the same mistake. There was nothing organic. Literally the entire game, every area consisted of hired guards on the hunt for Fisher. In terms of game design its lazy, unimaginitive & terrible game design. Nothing organic about it. I can see the same type of game design from these trailers.

Keep in my mind this is only my 1st impression from a trailer. I could be jumping to wild conclusions but thats just me being very worried & cautious on what i see after what happened with Conviction.

The game could be drasticlly different but so far this is what i see & im not impressed. I think what we need to see is a full ( or just part of ) sandbox level populated by regular people & regular guards going about their job. while trying to discreetly find ways to get close to & kill off your target.

brucecambell

Setting aside the inherent shallowness of a critique based on a few minutes of footage, there's a number of things wrong with your analysis of the previous Hitman games.

Firstly, the Hitman games have always placed a heavy emphasis on action and most levels allow you to blow through them with gunfire. It's actually easier to run and gun in Blood Money than Conviction, especially since Agent 47 is so incredibly resilient.

You also keep tossing around the term "organic" but I don't think you have a firm grasp as to what that actually means. There's very little that is organic about the previous Hitman games because the characters are stiff and the AI is borderline brain dead. The scenarios given to the player are clearly staged for the implementation of various methods of assassination so to call such scripted design organic is nonsensical.

Despite the different facets available to the player to complete a mission, the Hitman games are incredibly scripted in terms of how enemies and targets act. It's the antithesis of organic and at best you could call it clever staging to create the façade of an organic setting when in reality none of it is overtly convincing.

Organic also refers to the ease in which something can be implemented in relation to the whole and what's ironic about your statements is how much smoother the gameplay in this trailer looks than in any of the previous Hitman games. (And I've played through them all) Weapon use in the earlier games (such as picking up a knife, etc.) was ridiculously clumsy where by contrast this game looks to allow a much broader and unrestricted use of the environment and those things occupying space within it.

That's organic.

Blood Money was a fun game but it was also clunky and plagued with AI issues. Again, if all you want is a rehash of previous games you should just play those titles and allow these developers to do something fresh with the IP.

Your lamentations (premature as they are) reinforce a philosophy that venerates stagnancy. I respect why people such as yourself revel in stagnation but I can't personally accept the notion that game design cannot evolve, grow and shift, specifically as it pertains to franchises.

Game looks amazing. One of my most anticipated games, hands down.

looks sweet

Favorite part of the trailer? When he throws the FBI agent off the balcony. But the entire thing looks amazing.

Favorite part of the trailer? When he throws the FBI agent off the balcony. But the entire thing looks amazing.

Jbul

I think I'm with you on this one.

I didn't like the slow-pacing with Blood Money, but after seeing the trailer for Absolution, I am now more than inclined to give the Hitman series another shot. I am loving what you can do here; you can either play it silently or just run amok, destroying everything at your whim. And with those options, it doesn't sound forced either; it's a choice that you can make as the gamer.

This was a reassurement trailer: it was meant to show Hitman fans the core stealth gameplay is still intact and also to tell the herp derp audience "look! you can shoot sh*t and blow sh*t up too!" to sell an extra few copies. What matters to me is that the open ended stealth appraoch is there and mor refined and natural than ever.Black_Knight_00

Which is why completing missions in full stealth is more satisfying than going around and killing everything on sight, a concept that I believe Bruce and others who hate Conviction refuse to understand. Conviction required you to play that way and not as a TPS. Same thing here for Absolution, but it's cool that they don't push that choice upon you. You can play it in any way you like and still be satisfied with the end result, but it's just even sweeter to pull everything off in secret without them knowing any better. That's one of Blood Money's strengths to me, but I do agree with Grammation's assertion on the AI; it was definitely clunky, to say the least.

Setting aside the inherent shallowness of a critique based on a few minutes of footage, there's a number of things wrong with your analysis of the previous Hitman games.

Firstly, the Hitman games have always placed a heavy emphasis on action and most levels allow you to blow through them with gunfire. It's actually easier to run and gun in Blood Money than Conviction, especially since Agent 47 is so incredibly resilient.

You also keep tossing around the term "organic" but I don't think you have a firm grasp as to what that actually means. There's very little that is organic about the previous Hitman games because the characters are stiff and the AI is borderline brain dead. The scenarios given to the player are clearly staged for the implementation of various methods of assassination so to call such scripted design organic is nonsensical.

Despite the different facets available to the player to complete a mission, the Hitman games are incredibly scripted in terms of how enemies and targets act. It's the antithesis of organic and at best you could call it clever staging to create the façade of an organic setting when in reality none of it is overtly convincing.

Organic also refers to the ease in which something can be implemented in relation to the whole and what's ironic about your statements is how much smoother the gameplay in this trailer looks than in any of the previous Hitman games. (And I've played through them all) Weapon use in the earlier games (such as picking up a knife, etc.) was ridiculously clumsy where by contrast this game looks to allow a much broader and unrestricted use of the environment and those things occupying space within it.

That's organic.

Blood Money was a fun game but it was also clunky and plagued with AI issues. Again, if all you want is a rehash of previous games you should just play those titles and allow these developers to do something fresh with the IP.

Your lamentations (premature as they are) reinforce a philosophy that venerates stagnancy. I respect why people such as yourself revel in stagnation but I can't personally accept the notion that game design cannot evolve, grow and shift, specifically as it pertains to franchises.

Grammaton-Cleric

I made the thread for to see peoples impressions, not another debate please.

My comment was forming a quick impression. No need to over analyze what is essentially theory until we see full game up & running. I have a feeling that it may be a let down & in some ways maybe inferior to Blood Money but thats nothing more than a hunch right now.

It could be better, but im 100% sure it wont be as bad as Conviction. Also maybe i used the wrong term with Organic but what im meaning by it is that the levels themselves & the design of the missions look less lively & authentic. Same problem i had with Conviction. It lacked any sort of soul.

By that i mean i can believe the levels in the old SC games could exist outside of the game, Where as Convictions levels felt entirely designed around cover, further ruining the any feeling of it being anything natural , immersion or " Organic"

The same with Convictions design of having nothing but enemies on screen, the same enemies & always on the hunt for you. They felt as though the designer was just lazy & just dropped in a bunch of random enemies throughout the level.

Where as the old games felt more authentic, there is much more thought that went into the guards, the people, the mission design, also had more regular people, conversations, things they may be doing, etc.

Keep in mind i dont want another debate on this, or Conviction for that matter im just trying to give you an quick example of what i was meaning when i used the term "organic"

That aside a lot of older games are clunky. Hitman was no exception to this. You can tell the animations have been worked on very closely & the control of the characters & combat mechanics look to play & feel better. Definitely that is the biggest thing that stands out.

Im all for Evolution of games. Blood Money was a evolution of Hitman, finally realizing what it had set out to do from the begining. Chaos Theory was the same to the SC series. What im a afraid of is a mistep, a wrong turn, or what i would call a De - Evolution of a game.

Assassins Creed 3 has the right mindset for example. Its only adding to the experience ( which was much needed ), not taking away & moving into the wrong direction( Conviction ). The right way of going about a sequel.

There was nothing stagnant about SC or HM. I want nothing more than for them to deeply improve their games. You keep labeling me wrongly as someone who wants rehashes. You couldnt be more wrong. These series were progressing beautifully & i hope Absolution can do the sames. HM & SC arent Call A Duty.

I dont want another rehash, just as i didnt with SC. Absolution needs to take the Blood Money Concept to its farthest possible reaches, fix the series weaknesses, add to the experience & try out some new things. I wish Conviction could have done the same.

Which is why completing missions in full stealth is more satisfying than going around and killing everything on sight, a concept that I believe Bruce and others who hate Conviction refuse to understand. Conviction required you to play that way and not as a TPS. Same thing here for Absolution, but it's cool that they don't push that choice upon you. You can play it in any way you like and still be satisfied with the end result, but it's just even sweeter to pull everything off in secret without them knowing any better. That's one of Blood Money's strengths to me, but I do agree with Grammation's assertion on the AI; it was definitely clunky, to say the least.

Metamania

Again i wll say i dont want another debate. Your entitled to your opinion but when you do bring why me & others hate Conviction you always think it is just one thing but dont understand its many reasons, as a collective whole that make people dislike the game

Its not just that we feel its not a stealth game. You went from being an international Spy with very rich, deep & rewarding gameplay to a very basic, very barbones game with a cold hearted & unstoppable killer

You can get by some NPCs by using a EMP to take out every single light & disorient all enemies ( which is essetnially the equivalent of throwing a flash grenade in front a army & then running straight though ). You give away your presence at the same time. I wouldnt call that designed as a stealth game.

Conviction is much closer to Ghost Recon, or even Crysis 2. Designed from the ground up as an action game but can creep on on your enemies , kill them to remove them from your path, or even walk on right by some times. For the most part... its an action game.

The game just isnt designed as a stealth/Spy game & the level design, mission structure & NPCs are unimagintave & very dull. The level designer just dropped in a bunch of hostile enemies throughout ever section of the game. Its missing any sort of life or soul

Play through the old SC & you see the amount of thought & detail that goes into every single NPC placement. They have conversations, paths to patrol, regular unarmed civilains, jobs to perform, etc.

Here is what i wanted to say when i mentioned we dont like Conviction & label it as a barebones game.

The game is lacking:

• Lockpicking
• Open Doors stealthy option
• Emphasis on Cameras & turrets ( penalties here as well )
• Crouch landing
• Hiding bodies
• Hacking
• Interogating
• alarms
• Knife
• hanging neck submission
• ladders
• vents
• rappeling
• stealthy defensive equipment
• Can move character on different speeds depending on joystick pressure
• Whistling
• Throwing objects
• Blowing out candles
• computer terminal
• ziplines
• key coded locked doors
• search lights
• mines
• swimming
• cutting through material
• thermal vision
• mission ratings
• multiple, opportunity & optional objectives
• Bodies can be found & you are penalized
• Healthpacks ( instead of regenerating health )
• Penalities for being spotted, alarms, killed, or mission fail, etc ( there are no penalties for anything in Convcition )
• Emphasis on being quiet ( sound & light meter )
• Melee button ( option of KO as well )
• Unqiue & varied level design that gives intense Spy moments
• Can play as a complete Ghost without almost never having to kill a single person to get by
• Split jump

Can you honestly look at that list & not see why so many SC fans were pissed off? You love the game & thats fine. Im just giving you an example of why people we're let down. I' ve ever played a game more dumbed down in my life, & had the biggest list of things stripped from its core.

There is simply nothing left to like. If we had all started with Conviction then it would be fine but after i have tasted a million dollars, one dollar just doesnt do it for me anymore. This why Conviction bores me to tears.

There is simply no gameplay here, especially for some like me who have experienced much more. Its also why you love it. Because its your 1st experience with the franchise so it cannot let you down.

Awesome trailer.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

Setting aside the inherent shallowness of a critique based on a few minutes of footage, there's a number of things wrong with your analysis of the previous Hitman games.

Firstly, the Hitman games have always placed a heavy emphasis on action and most levels allow you to blow through them with gunfire. It's actually easier to run and gun in Blood Money than Conviction, especially since Agent 47 is so incredibly resilient.

You also keep tossing around the term "organic" but I don't think you have a firm grasp as to what that actually means. There's very little that is organic about the previous Hitman games because the characters are stiff and the AI is borderline brain dead. The scenarios given to the player are clearly staged for the implementation of various methods of assassination so to call such scripted design organic is nonsensical.

Despite the different facets available to the player to complete a mission, the Hitman games are incredibly scripted in terms of how enemies and targets act. It's the antithesis of organic and at best you could call it clever staging to create the façade of an organic setting when in reality none of it is overtly convincing.

Organic also refers to the ease in which something can be implemented in relation to the whole and what's ironic about your statements is how much smoother the gameplay in this trailer looks than in any of the previous Hitman games. (And I've played through them all) Weapon use in the earlier games (such as picking up a knife, etc.) was ridiculously clumsy where by contrast this game looks to allow a much broader and unrestricted use of the environment and those things occupying space within it.

That's organic.

Blood Money was a fun game but it was also clunky and plagued with AI issues. Again, if all you want is a rehash of previous games you should just play those titles and allow these developers to do something fresh with the IP.

Your lamentations (premature as they are) reinforce a philosophy that venerates stagnancy. I respect why people such as yourself revel in stagnation but I can't personally accept the notion that game design cannot evolve, grow and shift, specifically as it pertains to franchises.

brucecambell

I made the thread for to see peoples impressions, not another debate please.

My comment was forming a quick impression. No need to over analyze what is essentially theory until we see full game up & running. I have a feeling that it may be a let down & in some ways maybe inferior to Blood Money but thats nothing more than a hunch right now.

It could be better, but im 100% sure it wont be as bad as Conviction. Also maybe i used the wrong term with Organic but what im meaning by it is that the levels themselves & the design of the missions look less lively & authentic. Same problem i had with Conviction. It lacked any sort of soul.

By that i mean i can believe the levels in the old SC games could exist outside of the game, Where as Convictions levels felt entirely designed around cover, further ruining the any feeling of it being anything natural , immersion or " Organic"

The same with Convictions design of having nothing but enemies on screen, the same enemies & always on the hunt for you. They felt as though the designer was just lazy & just dropped in a bunch of random enemies throughout the level.

Where as the old games felt more authentic, there is much more thought that went into the guards, the people, the mission design, also had more regular people, conversations, things they may be doing, etc.

Keep in mind i dont want another debate on this, or Conviction for that matter im just trying to give you an quick example of what i was meaning when i used the term "organic"

That aside a lot of older games are clunky. Hitman was no exception to this. You can tell the animations have been worked on very closely & the control of the characters & combat mechanics look to play & feel better. Definitely that is the biggest thing that stands out.

Im all for Evolution of games. Blood Money was a evolution of Hitman, finally realizing what it had set out to do from the begining. Chaos Theory was the same to the SC series. What im a afraid of is a mistep, a wrong turn, or what i would call a De - Evolution of a game.

Assassins Creed 3 has the right mindset for example. Its only adding to the experience ( which was much needed ), not taking away & moving into the wrong direction( Conviction ). The right way of going about a sequel.

There was nothing stagnant about SC or HM. I want nothing more than for them to deeply improve their games. You keep labeling me wrongly as someone who wants rehashes. You couldnt be more wrong. These series were progressing beautifully & i hope Absolution can do the sames. HM & SC arent Call A Duty.

I dont want another rehash, just as i didnt with SC. Absolution needs to take the Blood Money Concept to its farthest possible reaches, fix the series weaknesses, add to the experience & try out some new things. I wish Conviction could have done the same.

I'm not interested in debating Conviction with you because I find your assessment of that game irrational and far too subjective to be further discussed. Your seething hatred for the game makes intelligent deliberation impossible because you have no desire to evaluate it objectively.

I will comment on your assertion that the SC franchise as a whole wasn't stagnating because on that I disagree immensely. I've been playing the games of this franchise since the beginning and Double Agent was a stagnant entry; rehashed from the excellent Chaos Theory and what new elements were added didn't work particularly well.

You claim to want evolution but to be honest I'm not so sure. Blood Money was most certainly not an evolutionary step for the long-running franchise and was merely a culmination of previous games with a glossy HD sheen. It plays very much like the previous installments and while it was a good game it brought little new to the proceedings.

If you feel that the Hitman games haven't stagnated even when considering the fact that the last three games have essentially utilized the same mechanics and structure then I fail to see how you can claim you want the series to evolve. What that trailer revealed was a much more polished and organic approach to the classical Hitman gameplay but I've read posts by you and others who have immediately derided these changes as thematically divergent from the earlier games.

Evolution means CHANGE. To evolve a franchise requires growing pains and some serious alterations to the core mechanics, otherwise you get the same goddamn experience ad nauseam. (And let us be honest: that is what some people want.)

Also, it's funny you mention ACIII because I am almost certain that the major shifts and alterations in this upcoming sequel are going to piss off many within the fan base even though that is precisely what the franchise needs at this juncture.

People don't tend to like change and they also often lack the introspection necessary to identify that fact. (That is a generalization and not specifically leveled at you)

There is simply no gameplay here, especially for some like me who have experienced much more. Its also why you love it. Because its your 1st experience with the franchise so it cannot let you down.

brucecambell

Not to completely flog a dead horse but as I've stated previously, I've played the franchise since inception and Conviction is my favorite entry.

Look, I don't care much for the Conviction debate already, because it's been done to death and no matter how many times I've said it, it will then be agreed to disagree and to move on from there. Right now, I just want to focus on HITMAN ABSOLUTION and how awesome it's going to be!

Look, I don't care much for the Conviction debate already, because it's been done to death and no matter how many times I've said it, it will then be agreed to disagree and to move on from there. Right now, I just want to focus on HITMAN ABSOLUTION and how awesome it's going to be!

Metamania

[QUOTE="brucecambell"]

From a designer perspective it seems more action oriented. The levels seem purely designed around cover. It looks like its making the exact same mistakes Conviction made. It even has the same Detection meter.

For example it feels looks like every area is designded around having many guards who are agressively searching for Agent 47. There is nothing organic here. Where as in Blood Money the areas consisted of many varied & regular people just going about their business. It felt very real, very organic & authentic.

Just say you take any mission from Blood Money. Well take Opera House, or the Wedding level. Instead of the level being populated by many varied, regular people & some regular guards you instead of the entire place fitted with nothing but enemies ( Guards ) searching for 47 & yelling " i know you're here 47, come get some".

Conviction made the same mistake. There was nothing organic. Literally the entire game, every area consisted of hired guards on the hunt for Fisher. In terms of game design its lazy, unimaginitive & terrible game design. Nothing organic about it. I can see the same type of game design from these trailers.

Keep in my mind this is only my 1st impression from a trailer. I could be jumping to wild conclusions but thats just me being very worried & cautious on what i see after what happened with Conviction.

The game could be drasticlly different but so far this is what i see & im not impressed. I think what we need to see is a full ( or just part of ) sandbox level populated by regular people & regular guards going about their job. while trying to discreetly find ways to get close to & kill off your target.

Grammaton-Cleric

Setting aside the inherent shallowness of a critique based on a few minutes of footage, there's a number of things wrong with your analysis of the previous Hitman games.

Firstly, the Hitman games have always placed a heavy emphasis on action and most levels allow you to blow through them with gunfire. It's actually easier to run and gun in Blood Money than Conviction, especially since Agent 47 is so incredibly resilient.

You also keep tossing around the term "organic" but I don't think you have a firm grasp as to what that actually means. There's very little that is organic about the previous Hitman games because the characters are stiff and the AI is borderline brain dead. The scenarios given to the player are clearly staged for the implementation of various methods of assassination so to call such scripted design organic is nonsensical.

Despite the different facets available to the player to complete a mission, the Hitman games are incredibly scripted in terms of how enemies and targets act. It's the antithesis of organic and at best you could call it clever staging to create the façade of an organic setting when in reality none of it is overtly convincing.

Organic also refers to the ease in which something can be implemented in relation to the whole and what's ironic about your statements is how much smoother the gameplay in this trailer looks than in any of the previous Hitman games. (And I've played through them all) Weapon use in the earlier games (such as picking up a knife, etc.) was ridiculously clumsy where by contrast this game looks to allow a much broader and unrestricted use of the environment and those things occupying space within it.

That's organic.

Blood Money was a fun game but it was also clunky and plagued with AI issues. Again, if all you want is a rehash of previous games you should just play those titles and allow these developers to do something fresh with the IP.

Your lamentations (premature as they are) reinforce a philosophy that venerates stagnancy. I respect why people such as yourself revel in stagnation but I can't personally accept the notion that game design cannot evolve, grow and shift, specifically as it pertains to franchises.

I agree with a few of your statements. However I agree with brucecampbell in some areas. Although I am not too quick to judge Absolution, I can still say my concerns have not yet been eased. Hitman Blood Money was an incredible game, although it has poor A.I and such, the world did feel organic. It was filled with civillians just going about their day, working, waiters, janitors, and so on. The game gave you fantastic scenarios, options and wide open levels to perform your objectives in whatever order and way you please.

The Hitman series is very much about action as it is stealth. Always have been. However judging by the little we have seen, the game looks to copy much of what Conviction did, it looks like it might be a closed off expierence (linear) compared to Blood Money. The game has shown off a good reliance on using cover. I'd say it's too early to fairly judge the game. But when I notice many features from Conviction making their way into Absolution, I can say it does make me nervous.

However the trailer does look good. I hope they show off a playthrough of a more wide open, Blood Money type level soon, and not one of the linear, story centric levels where 47 is trying to escape.

By the way, I don't think that fans want it to stagnate, however I do think their is a good way to improve and refresh a series and a bad way to go about it. Chaos Theory and Assassin's Creed 3 seem to be a good way of going about it, which seems to be echoed by the community, fanbase of those series.

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"][QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]I swear to god, if you two get into another Conviction debate... You sound like two angry FISHWIVES. Jesus H ChristBlack_Knight_00

LMAO. Laundry Mats are a very violent place these days.

How do you post a video that plays at a specific time?

& actually as a little boy i always dreamt of being a fish wife :D

[QUOTE="brucecambell"]

There is simply no gameplay here, especially for some like me who have experienced much more. Its also why you love it. Because its your 1st experience with the franchise so it cannot let you down.

Grammaton-Cleric

Not to completely flog a dead horse but as I've stated previously, I've played the franchise since inception and Conviction is my favorite entry.

Nooooooooo, we're not beating a dead horse? I dont believe it.

Jokes aside if you're favorite entry in the SC franchise is Conviction then i dont believe you're a SC fan at all. I believe you have played them but i do not believe you ever truly liked them. That's just my guess.

It would then make complete sense for Conviction to be your favorite entry in the series & why you have called the series stagnant.

Its universally agreed upon by all true SC fans that Conviction isnt apart of the series, is the worst entry, an abomination, & we all have chosen to disown this completely dumbed down & inferior title.

I agree with a few of your statements. However I agree with brucecampbell in some areas. Although I am not too quick to judge Absolution, I can still say my concerns have not yet been eased. Hitman Blood Money was an incredible game, although it has poor A.I and such, the world did feel organic. It was filled with civillians just going about their day, working, waiters, janitors, and so on. The game gave you fantastic scenarios, options and wide open levels to perform your objectives in whatever order and way you please.

The Hitman series is very much about action as it is stealth. Always have been. However judging by the little we have seen, the game looks to copy much of what Conviction did, it looks like it might be a closed off expierence (linear) compared to Blood Money. The game has shown off a good reliance on using cover. I'd say it's too early to fairly judge the game. But when I notice many features from Conviction making their way into Absolution, I can say it does make me nervous.

However the trailer does look good. I hope they show off a playthrough of a more wide open, Blood Money type level soon, and not one of the linear, story centric levels where 47 is trying to escape.

By the way, I don't think that fans want it to stagnate, however I do think their is a good way to improve and refresh a series and a bad way to go about it. Chaos Theory and Assassin's Creed 3 seem to be a good way of going about it, which seems to be echoed by the community, fanbase of those series.

contracts420

I have a problem with using the adjective organic when describing a game where the ancillary characters are nothing but blank automatons and the levels laid out in such a way as to conveniently allow certain murders to be executed in an almost Rube Goldberg fashion.

Blood Money is an incredible game in terms of scope but the actual execution keeps it from being anything more than a clunky romp filled with enemies who look and respond like helium-filled balloons when killed.

It's also a game where you can only interact with certain items or areas where by contrast this new game looks to give the player a freedom only hinted at in previous installments.

To me that's a far more organic experience.

As to ACIII, if the game is as divergent as has been hinted at by developers, I fully expect a backlash from at least some part of the fan base because in my experience stagnation is venerated far more than innovation or even evolution. People say they want a fresh experience but leave the well-trodden path and they squeal like children.

What's interesting about the Splinter Cell debate is that Conviction is very much like RE4: a significant divergence from the original formula that some loved and some loathed. To this day there are many RE fans who lament that RE4 was ever released, as they wanted their slower-paced exploration-centric survival horror RE instead of what they received.

Any major changes in a franchises can and will agitate certain fans.

How do you post a video that plays at a specific time? actually as a little boy i always dreamt of being a fish wife :Dbrucecambell

I'm hoping for the game to include challenge maps, similiar to what Conviction did, so that your skills can be tested and they would reward you with points or whatever's needed to upgrade your guns and gadgets or hell, neither of that and just compare scores or times with others on the leaderboards, see if you can beat them. I think that would be awesome!

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

[QUOTE="brucecambell"]

There is simply no gameplay here, especially for some like me who have experienced much more. Its also why you love it. Because its your 1st experience with the franchise so it cannot let you down.

brucecambell

Not to completely flog a dead horse but as I've stated previously, I've played the franchise since inception and Conviction is my favorite entry.

Nooooooooo, we're not beating a dead horse? I dont believe it.

Jokes aside if you're favorite entry in the SC franchise is Conviction then i dont believe you're a SC fan at all. I believe you have played them but i do not believe you ever truly liked them. That's just my guess.

It would then make complete sense for Conviction to be your favorite entry in the series & why you have called the series stagnant.

Its universally agreed upon by all true SC fans that Conviction isnt apart of the series, is the worst entry, an abomination, & we all have chosen to disown this completely dumbed down & inferior title.

Making some inference without any evidence doesn't bode well for the credibility of your position.

Your claim that I'm not a "true" fan is simply ridiculous. I enjoyed the first two SC games despite their many flaws and I consider Chaos Theory to be one of the best games of its kind ever made.

Hell, I own two copies.

But unlike you I have a desire to see true innovation rather than the same formula repeated ad nauseam. I'm not interested in inflexible paradigms and dogmatic design principles but rather want to see franchises expand beyond their initial parameters. I'm not agitated by change or diversity in execution and I also understand that change is sometimes painful but necessary for the sake of the evolutionary process.

You are free to dislike change and innovation but you should at least own up to your veneration of stagnancy,

Also, there is no universal consensus on Conviction being a bad SC game by these allegedly true fans. That is an unsubstantiated assertion that you pulled directly out of your imagination. Conviction, like RE4, diverged from the formula and thus some of the fan base rallied against those changes. I have read and heard similar accusations made in regards to RE4 being a "bad RE experience" so these types of arguments are nothing new but rather the indulgent blather of verbose zealots who think they are the definitive word on what constitutes a real entry into a popular franchise.

And that's my ultimate problem with your arguments. I actually understand why some SC fans might dislike Conviction just as I understand - as a lifelong RE fan - why some people disliked the more action-centric direction of RE4. However, you and your ilk arrogantly assert that true fans must hate these games and to differ in that assessment is to be branded as "not a real fan."

It's weak argumentation and juvenile cognition and it has no proximity to the truth of the matter.

Personally, I find your ideology as it relates to game design far too restrictive as I tend to lean towards a more progressive model. I do understand that radical restructuring of a game within a long-standing franchise can deliver mixed results but I would rather developers take the risk rather than churning out the same game with minor variations.

Of course, that's a subjective stance because some people very much want the same thing repeated to infinity. The good news is there appears to be plenty of developers who will happily indulge that desire.

[QUOTE="GodModeEnabled"][QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]I swear to god, if you two get into another Conviction debate... You sound like two angry FISHWIVES. Jesus H ChristBlack_Knight_00

That video was awesome, especially the black dude who nonchalantly walks through the mayhem like he forgot a hanger on the other side of the frame.

This sounds bad, but I hate watching fight videos without resolutions (meaning, someone getting knocked out). It's too much of a c*ck-tease. :/

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BPoole96

LMAO. That's awesome.

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BPoole96

This kind of thing merely serves to demonstrate how narrow-minded many gamers are when it comes to their coveted franchises and how few people seem willing or able to embrace change.

For all the bravado and talk of wanting something new or innovative, very few gamers seem all that progressive in their mindsets and would rather these franchises rinse and repeat the same formula with only minor variations.

I've played every single game in this franchise to completion and the only real divergence I've seen in that trailer is that the action and combat is handled far more smoothly. Yet that alone would seem to anger some of the fan base because apparently this game needs to play like something from ten years ago to be a "real" entry into this series.

I am reminded of RE fans that defended the clunky tank controls in RE5 because that archaic design was, according to them, necessary for the game to be a true entry into the series.

It would be almost comical if this sad adherence to the past wasn't so goddamn pathetic.

Two new screens, showcasing disguises and open ended gameplay. In the first one 47 is disguised as a repairman and is using wires from a generator to electrify a fence. In the second the resolution: a guy was running from the police and while climbing the fence is electrocuted by 47's trap.

It's Hitman. I'll probably get it.

[QUOTE="BPoole96"]

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Grammaton-Cleric

This kind of thing merely serves to demonstrate how narrow-minded many gamers are when it comes to their coveted franchises and how few people seem willing or able to embrace change.

For all the bravado and talk of wanting something new or innovative, very few gamers seem all that progressive in their mindsets and would rather these franchises rinse and repeat the same formula with only minor variations.

I've played every single game in this franchise to completion and the only real divergence I've seen in that trailer is that the action and combat is handled far more smoothly. Yet that alone would seem to anger some of the fan base because apparently this game needs to play like something from ten years ago to be a "real" entry into this series.

I am reminded of RE fans that defended the clunky tank controls in RE5 because that archaic design was, according to them, necessary for the game to be a true entry into the series.

It would be almost comical if this sad adherence to the past wasn't so goddamn pathetic.

Its a joke, don't take it so seriously. Hitman Absolution actually looks pretty good. I have played all the the previous games as well. This game doesn't stray too far from the past ones but it has been portrayed as more action oriented but I can tell they still have all the stealth elements in there as well

New trailer released for Hitman Absolution. Trailer is called "Art Of the Kill"

Here's the trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzTHY3eiWVs

I have yet to see any emphasis on disguises. So what do you guys think of the new trailer? Look familiar, excited, not excited, worried?

I for one am still worried. All they had to do was take Blood Money & improve that concept. So far it seems all that has been shown is cover, killing, & shooting.

brucecambell

Looks as though you can play it as either an action or a stealth game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ32i_O-M1Y

About disguises, skip to 3:45 on the video and you will see 47 in a cop uniform.

Two new screens, showcasing disguises and open ended gameplay. In the first one 47 is disguised as a repairman and is using wires from a generator to electrify a fence. In the second the resolution: a guy was running from the police and while climbing the fence is electrocuted by 47's trap.

Black_Knight_00

This is the sort of thing they should be showing off. These pictures help ease my mind. Hopefully this will be closer to what they show off for E3.