No game is perfect...

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matthayter700

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#1 matthayter700
Member since 2004 • 2606 Posts

... so why does GS have 10 mean a "perfect" score?

Just after noticing the ad for the "Game Of The Year" feature and watching it, I was reminded of the nature of GS reviewing, so I figured for my 1875th post (3/4 of 2500; probably sounds dumb but whatever) I'd talk about the use of "perfect" to describe games that score 10. IIRC, their own meaning for the word "perfect" is "a game that can't be improved upon in any meaningful way"

IIRC the very idea of perfection was supposed to be about the abscence of flaws, not the impossibility of fixing them, though obviously it's up to them what their definition of it is. My point is, though I've only played one of the games that's scored a 10 on this site, I don't think it fits "perfect" in either sense; I'm talking about Zelda Ocarina of Time. Last time I brought this up on this site people said I should "admit" that I "don't like" the game, but to "admit" something it has to be "true" and I'm not going to bend over backwards just because others would jump to conclusions. I like the game; I started playing it years ago yet it created its own sense of nostalgia in me, and I still have yet to play through the whole thing because I keep wanting to start from the beginning whenever I've been not playing it for long enough... and even when I haven't been playing it for months (such as when I can't bring my N64 into St. John's for a semester at MUN) so many seemingly unconnected things tend to remind me of it for whatever reason.

I just find the notion that the game "could not be improved upon" somewhat questionable. What about re-watching cutscenes? Or re-playing boss battles? Or re-doing dungeon levels from the start of how they were before you went through them before? Or even re-doing other certain parts of the game that only happen once, such as by starting from a certain point in the game? For each of those problems you have to start over from the beginning (which would seem ironic for me to complain about except for how it's on top of what I mentioned earlier) but what if they were to have a structure in which you'd have another menu branching off from the main menu that let you start play from various points in the game (provided you already reached those points in the game otherwise, that is) so that you could re-do things from a certain point onwards without having to re-do the whole thing, like with SA2B. This wouldn't alter the main game, you could still play it the same as you would otherwise, except that there would also be another option available. I'd like to think that would be an improvement.

And that's more so just an example, not a complete list, which would go into many more problems, like the inability to skip certain long dialogues of in-game text... again, I'm not inclined to try to think of all the potential room for improvement, I think there's a lot more than there seems to be. Even the reviewer for that game conceded that there were problems, such as with slowdown in a few areas "such as the water temple" (wherein I found it quite noticeable) which granted, I wouldn't know whether or not it was possible to solve without too much compromise to the graphics, but that still doesn't make it perfect. The same reviewer said immediately afterwards that the game was "In a word, perfect. To call it anything else would be a bald-faced lie." as if to imply that it would be a lie to call it a great game with some flaws.

As someone mentioned last time I brought it up, maybe he didn't mean "literally" perfect, but how could you mean a word like "perfect" figuratively? Of course, said reviewer has since been fired under suspicious circumstances, so it'd be unreasonable to expect him to answer me; that's why I'm asking it to the general community. But if it wasn't meant to be taken literally, why do they still use the word "perfect" for 10? Last time I asked someone said to mean "as perfect as you're going to get" but aside from how the idea of things being "more" or "less" perfect is questionable to begin with (IIRC, something was either perfect or not perfect) who gets to say what the closest to perfect someone is going to get would be? Wouldn't there be other alternatives that would better describe such games, such as "outstanding"? No game is perfect, so why does GS have 10 mean a "perfect" score?

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sAndroid17

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#2 sAndroid17
Member since 2005 • 8715 Posts

Perfect Dark has perfect in the name! so your wrong!

but a score of ten doesnt mean it "is" perfect.

but the best game in what is available in technology at the moment.

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Video_Game_King

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#3 Video_Game_King
Member since 2003 • 27545 Posts
They changed the score to "Prime". Besides, my #1 game ever is perfect. It's number 1 :P!
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Archangel3371

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#4 Archangel3371
Member since 2004 • 46852 Posts
Oh for the love of god people, can we not end this madness already. Why is this continually brought up and why is it always fixated on Gamespot? Do not other places give games 10/10, 5/5, A+, etc. these all mean the same thing and that is the game in question excels in what it was designed to do as best as can reasonably be expected and any flaws it may have do not impact it in a significant enough manner.
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ASK_Story

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#5 ASK_Story
Member since 2006 • 11455 Posts
I always thought Tetris was the most perfect game.
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Video_Game_King

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#6 Video_Game_King
Member since 2003 • 27545 Posts

I always thought Tetris was the most perfect game.ASK_Story

Pfft, the plot was hackneyed and predictable. Seriously, who DIDN'T expect the evil Block Piece to kill off the fair maiden L Piece?

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matthayter700

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#7 matthayter700
Member since 2004 • 2606 Posts

They changed the score to "Prime". Besides, my #1 game ever is perfect. It's number 1 :P!Video_Game_King

Really? If so, I was unaware of that. Sorry. :P

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matthayter700

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#8 matthayter700
Member since 2004 • 2606 Posts

Oh for the love of god people, can we not end this madness already. Why is this continually brought up and why is it always fixated on Gamespot? Do not other places give games 10/10, 5/5, A+, etc. these all mean the same thing and that is the game in question excels in what it was designed to do as best as can reasonably be expected and any flaws it may have do not impact it in a significant enough manner.Archangel3371

I don't go to those other places. If I did, I'd probably be asking them the same thing.

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deactivated-57d773aa56272

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#9 deactivated-57d773aa56272
Member since 2006 • 2292 Posts
Except Bonk's Adventure on the Game Boy.
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Saruman1719

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#10 Saruman1719
Member since 2003 • 12466 Posts
Besides the fact that it is subtitled Prime now, what is so difficult to understand? Perfect meant the game was as good as it gets at that given moment in time.
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silentmage_245

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#11 silentmage_245
Member since 2008 • 378 Posts

Its IMPOSSIBLE for a game to get 10, GTAIV and MGS4 should only 9.9

I know a game that gets 10, the game is the real world, the world we live in, its a game, and it gets 10.

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Toriko42

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#12 Toriko42
Member since 2006 • 27562 Posts
It's not, it means Prime
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Video_Game_King

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#13 Video_Game_King
Member since 2003 • 27545 Posts

Its IMPOSSIBLE for a game to get 10, GTAIV and MGS4 should only 9.9

I know a game that gets 10, the game is the real world, the world we live in, its a game, and it gets 10.

silentmage_245

No, life kinda sucks. The difficulty curve spikes up once you leave the tutorial level. Oh, and that tutorial takes up FAR too much of the game itself. Throw in the bad characterization and lack of story, and you have a bad game.

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matthayter700

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#14 matthayter700
Member since 2004 • 2606 Posts

Besides the fact that it is subtitled Prime now, what is so difficult to understand? Perfect meant the game was as good as it gets at that given moment in time.Saruman1719

That's not what "perfect" really means, though. And I checked the reviews section, and from what I've seen it still seems to have "perfect" as the subtitle for 10...

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silentmage_245

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#15 silentmage_245
Member since 2008 • 378 Posts
[QUOTE="silentmage_245"]

Its IMPOSSIBLE for a game to get 10, GTAIV and MGS4 should only 9.9

I know a game that gets 10, the game is the real world, the world we live in, its a game, and it gets 10.

Video_Game_King

No, life kinda sucks. The difficulty curve spikes up once you leave the tutorial level. Oh, and that tutorial takes up FAR too much of the game itself. Throw in the bad characterization and lack of story, and you have a bad game.

Life is a great story. Do something useful and you'll know what I mean. Our lives are not perfect but our live's gameplay is a 10/10.

The World Is Just Awesome - D Channel

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elsameer

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#16 elsameer
Member since 2004 • 25 Posts
I'm more or less nobody played that? You know anybody who played it?
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bigfatcrap

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#17 bigfatcrap
Member since 2006 • 1919 Posts
[QUOTE="silentmage_245"]

Its IMPOSSIBLE for a game to get 10, GTAIV and MGS4 should only 9.9

I know a game that gets 10, the game is the real world, the world we live in, its a game, and it gets 10.

Video_Game_King

No, life kinda sucks. The difficulty curve spikes up once you leave the tutorial level. Oh, and that tutorial takes up FAR too much of the game itself. Throw in the bad characterization and lack of story, and you have a bad game.

Hey I like the character of myself. I found his plot to be very interesting. Of all the characters in life, I was the most likeable. The internet expansion pack completely revolutionized the gameplay as well.

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sinistergoggles

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#18 sinistergoggles
Member since 2005 • 9919 Posts

It's just the opinion of group of people..

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Video_Game_King

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#19 Video_Game_King
Member since 2003 • 27545 Posts
[QUOTE="Video_Game_King"][QUOTE="silentmage_245"]

Its IMPOSSIBLE for a game to get 10, GTAIV and MGS4 should only 9.9

I know a game that gets 10, the game is the real world, the world we live in, its a game, and it gets 10.

silentmage_245

No, life kinda sucks. The difficulty curve spikes up once you leave the tutorial level. Oh, and that tutorial takes up FAR too much of the game itself. Throw in the bad characterization and lack of story, and you have a bad game.

Life is a great story. Do something useful and you'll know what I mean. Our lives are not perfect but our live's gameplay is a 10/10.

The World Is Just Awesome - D Channel

No, there's literally no plot. Where's the villain, the protagonist, the settings? And to the other guy, the Internet expansion just made it easier for spammers to play the game. And what if you get stuck on a server set before the Internet? You're still kinda screwed, no matter what class you choose. And choosing a race doesn't seem to have much effect. Oooh, so I get +3 agility if I make a white character. What will that do, you eventually get stuck in a boring desk job, no matter how you play the game.

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#20 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Getting 100% on a test doesn't mean you have "perfect" knowledge of the field of study you were tested on. Not everyone knows everything so it is impossible for you to have "perfect" knowledge.

That same thing goes with games, the highest score represents the highest accolade a game is capable of receiving during that time period. No game is ever perfect, and having a score you never use creates a paradox.
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#21 wizdom
Member since 2003 • 10111 Posts
I perfect score doesn't mean the game is perfect, I find it funny how people think it is..but its not, Why even have a 10 if no game has a chance to get it? If a game scores a 9.8 why not give it a ten if its a big leap foward for gaming?
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#22 Pwnage_Dragon
Member since 2008 • 389 Posts

Garrys Mod

nuff' said

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matthayter700

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#23 matthayter700
Member since 2004 • 2606 Posts

Getting 100% on a test doesn't mean you have "perfect" knowledge of the field of study you were tested on.foxhound_fox

First off, IIRC, 100% isn't considered a "perfect" score, but even if it was doing "perfectly" on the test (as in, not making any mistakes, since if you made them you wouldn't get 100%) that still wouldn't be the same as having a "perfect" knowledge of the field of study, since a test doesn't represent that.

That same thing goes with games, the highest score represents the highest accolade a game is capable of receiving during that time period. No game is ever perfect, and having a score you never use creates a paradox.foxhound_fox

Then couldn't they call the 10 something other than "perfect"? I know others have claimed that the subtitle was changed to "prime" but I've checked and that doesn't seem to be the case.

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matthayter700

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#24 matthayter700
Member since 2004 • 2606 Posts
Oh, and I almost forgot...
I perfect score doesn't mean the game is perfect, I find it funny how people think it is..but its not, Why even have a 10 if no game has a chance to get it? If a game scores a 9.8 why not give it a ten if its a big leap foward for gaming?wizdom
I'm guessing because for it to get a 10 it has to be a HUGE leap forward for gaming. GS doesn't give out 10 very easily... if I recall correctly only a half a dozen games have ever gotten that score. I still think it's good they have a score that's rarely used but not completely unused, I just wish they wouldn't call it "perfect"
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Black_Knight_00

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#25 Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 78 Posts
No game is perfectmatthayter700
Tetris is perfect.
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matthayter700

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#26 matthayter700
Member since 2004 • 2606 Posts
[QUOTE="matthayter700"]No game is perfectBlack_Knight_00
Tetris is perfect.

You mean in GS's "couldn't have been improved upon" sense? If so what makes you think that?
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#27 Skylock00
Member since 2002 • 20069 Posts
I still think it's good they have a score that's rarely used but not completely unused, I just wish they wouldn't call it "perfect"matthayter700
They used to call a 10 a perfect score, but they don't anymore. The terminology for a game that gets a 10 is 'prime,' not 'perfect.' I'm not sure where you've checked and found something other than that, but on this page it seems pretty cut and dry to me.
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#28 Black_Knight_00
Member since 2007 • 78 Posts
[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="matthayter700"]No game is perfectmatthayter700
Tetris is perfect.

You mean in GS's "couldn't have been improved upon" sense? If so what makes you think that?

I mean it has an immortal gameplay that will never get old or obsolete. It also influenced every sigle puzzle game in the last 24 years. This makes it the perfect game.
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Corey_Barlog_SM

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#29 Corey_Barlog_SM
Member since 2008 • 460 Posts
Tetris is the only perfect game. It's not my favorite, but it is a simple, ingenious concept and you'd have to be a poor programmer to mar the execution.
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matthayter700

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#30 matthayter700
Member since 2004 • 2606 Posts
[QUOTE="matthayter700"]I still think it's good they have a score that's rarely used but not completely unused, I just wish they wouldn't call it "perfect"Skylock00
They used to call a 10 a perfect score, but they don't anymore. The terminology for a game that gets a 10 is 'prime,' not 'perfect.' I'm not sure where you've checked and found something other than that, but on this page it seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Apparently that page would contradict player reviews sections; I looked up "ocarina of time" and the "player reviews" section had "perfect" under each 10. Couldn't the site administrators change those to "prime" as well, to make it more consistent?
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#31 Skylock00
Member since 2002 • 20069 Posts
[QUOTE="Skylock00"][QUOTE="matthayter700"]I still think it's good they have a score that's rarely used but not completely unused, I just wish they wouldn't call it "perfect"matthayter700
They used to call a 10 a perfect score, but they don't anymore. The terminology for a game that gets a 10 is 'prime,' not 'perfect.' I'm not sure where you've checked and found something other than that, but on this page it seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Apparently that page would contradict player reviews sections; I looked up "ocarina of time" and the "player reviews" section had "perfect" under each 10. Couldn't the site administrators change those to "prime" as well, to make it more consistent?

Those were scores that were made before the score's name was changed...using something that doesn't match the current system to argue this point is making a real stretch, though.