NY Law SIGNED restricting game sales to minors, gotta see this hypocrisy

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Is this serious? how can they just apply this kind of regulation to gaming and nothing else? i have always said that they probably should restrict content to minors, but unless they do it to all forms of media this is absurd. There is no connection to gaming and violent crime. In fact there has been an overall decline in violent crime as gaming has become more popular.

But that's not even the issue. How in the world do you limit video game sales without limiting movies? I can even see how books and music are somewhat different, because there is no visual depiction. Movies and gaming are almost the same though. I hope to god the ESA fights this one and makes another politician out to be a monkey.

Not only that, but this law makes less sense when you consider it doesnt apply to handhelds (why not?) or to games sold in the mail. What the hell? It will also be illegal to sell a console without parental lockout features. Since when can they do this? Is it illegal to sell a dvd player without lockout features?

This whole law makes no sense and logic suggests if it is challenged it will be overturned, but logic does not seem to always prevail these days.

The ESA's legal team will have this straightened out in no time, if it needs straightening out. I think out of all the game laws ever struck down this one wins the prize for biggest waste of time.

Is it just me, or does your link just go straight back to this thread?

I guess my problem isn't so much as to the nature of this as the focus of the politicians. If they were truly concerned about exposing inappropriate content to youth without it being approved by parents, they wouldn't be singling out videogames. They'd be moving for a better regulation system in films (from what I've heard, The Dark Night isn't necessary a "bring the kids" film, yet it walks with a PG-13), so as to have something decent to enforce. But clearly, they don't have these interests at heart; they're just going after the flavor of the day.Oilers99

Heres the thing, if stores had been following regulation set down by the ESRB, then this bill wouldnt have been neccesary. As it is very few stores actually follow the regulation of M-rated games are not to be sold to minors. Any 14 can walk into a Wal-Mart or a Gamestop pick up a copy of GTA 4 and take it to the checkout. The register will pop up with "Check ID, is over 18? y/n", what does the cashier do automatically hit Y. Then the machine's were changed so it required an actual birth date put in, what does the cashier do? Hit override or void, which completely bypasses the ID check all together.

Stores need to be hit with harder penalties for selling M rated games to minors, because as it is few of them care. Stores get in major trouble for selling tobacco and alcohol to minors, and they sure as heck get in trouble for selling porn to minors, so why shouldnt they get in trouble for selling video games that are rated M (or 16+ in europe)? Now Im not saying that rated M = porn, or that it can cause the kind of devistation alcohol can, or the kind of internal body damage tobacco can. Its just, the game is rated M for a reason, and if the stores are not bothering to pay attention to it, then someone higher up needs to step in and do something.

I guess my problem isn't so much as to the nature of this as the focus of the politicians. If they were truly concerned about exposing inappropriate content to youth without it being approved by parents, they wouldn't be singling out videogames. They'd be moving for a better regulation system in films (from what I've heard, The Dark Night isn't necessary a "bring the kids" film, yet it walks with a PG-13), so as to have something decent to enforce. But clearly, they don't have these interests at heart; they're just going after the flavor of the day.Oilers99

Here where I live, the batman movie was rated 16+ which means even if the kids are with their parents they are still not admitted into the movie.

Heres the thing, if stores had been following regulation set down by the ESRB, then this bill wouldnt have been neccesary. As it is very few stores actually follow the regulation of M-rated games are not to be sold to minors. Any 14 can walk into a Wal-Mart or a Gamestop pick up a copy of GTA 4 and take it to the checkout. The register will pop up with "Check ID, is over 18? y/n", what does the cashier do automatically hit Y. Then the machine's were changed so it required an actual birth date put in, what does the cashier do? Hit override or void, which completely bypasses the ID check all together.

Stores need to be hit with harder penalties for selling M rated games to minors, because as it is few of them care. Stores get in major trouble for selling tobacco and alcohol to minors, and they sure as heck get in trouble for selling porn to minors, so why shouldnt they get in trouble for selling video games that are rated M (or 16+ in europe)? Now Im not saying that rated M = porn, or that it can cause the kind of devistation alcohol can, or the kind of internal body damage tobacco can. Its just, the game is rated M for a reason, and if the stores are not bothering to pay attention to it, then someone higher up needs to step in and do something.

EvilAshTwin

I don't know how many times I'm going to have to post this link, but your claims are just not true. The FTC has found that games have the BEST self enforcement rate of any form of media.

The problem is not that ESRB ratings are not being enforced, it's that the general public is far to willing to believe what it's told about game sales to minors, and refuses to do the research necessary to see the truth of the matter. This extends right down to those of us who are staunch enough to frequent places like GameSpot.

If we as the strongest proponents of videogames can't be arsed to use the tools at our disposal to defend them, why should we expect better from the politicians. Stop crippling your own cause.

First of all, if you buy into everything that was said in that link, then you lack the inability to read between the lines. You guys are not looking at the problem as a whole. The representative of the link is the president of the ESRB, how do you think someone becomes president of an organization like that? Ill tell you and I only need to use one word; politics. Presidents of companies like that know what to say to tell people the information they want to hear, while never letting on to the other side of an issue and they can do with finesse and verbal dexterity of the best politician in congress. So while you are standing strong in support of "our cause" against the lies and uncertain truths from one politician you are then eating it up from another.

Secondly, I resent being called an idiot that eats up everything from Fox News. When Jack Thompson is finally de-barred and all of his credibility (in the eyes of his "peers") is finally killed, that'll be the greatest day in the history of gaming. Look just because I do think that stronger steps need to be taken to prevent minors from buying video games does not mean I eat up everything some politician said. That just means I have the ability to think for myself. I dont see good guys and bad guys here. There is no youre either with us or against us speech here. Both sides are lying and exaggerating information to get certain people to think what they (the politicians) want. Sadly many of you guys are falling for it without even realizing it.

You guys keep saying "video game related violence is down", that maybe true, but violent crimes committed by minors isnt. Lets pretend for a moment that I am a member of the aeryan brotherhood, I have the tattoos, the shaved head, and attend all the anti-minority rallies. Now I go out one night, find me a minority and have a good 'ol time with him, by the time I get done with him there isnt much left to identify. Would that not be considered a hate crime? Now lets dial back the extreme, Im a shy guy, I dont stick out, noone knows me, but I still have the hateful urges toward a minority, and lets say that I still commit the same crime. Would that not still be a hate crime, despite the fact noone knew my intentions?

Now apply that same logic to video game related violence. Is it not plausible that video game related violence actually isnt down, its just kids are starting to wisen up about trying to use it as a defense? It no longer flies in the court room, and all it does is hurt the gaming industry. Is it not possible that kids are starting to get smarter about this type of stuff? And that brings me back to my original point.

Kids are getting smarter. Look that article again, I see what I would call a main discrepancy there. Ill give you a moment to reread it and try to find it. yeah done? Ok Im going to assume that you didnt find it. In the article they said they surveyed 253 stores. Then they named dropped alot of stores everyone (well US residents) should have heard of. If I could, I would like to direct your attention to the bar graph, you see it covers years from '00 to '08, but wait, it seems there is a 3 year gap, it goes from '03 and jumps to '06. Those years are not included for one of two reasons. 1) There was a massive spike in those years and they dont want people to see it. After all think of the M rated games that came out in those 3 years. 2) They just didnt do the survey. However I would like to ask you a question, what does the named dropped stores all have in common with the years between 2003 and 2006? Ready? Online Shopping If these stores didnt have online capabilities by the start of 2003, they sure as heck did by the end of 2006. Stores like Gamestop, Wal-mart, Best Buy and Target are all pretty popular, so it makes sense their online stores are popular too. Stores like Kmart and Circuit City, hey lets face it, those are last resort stores. The ones you go to as a last resort ditch effort in your attempt to find something you cant find anywhere else. Yeah sure their online may do business, but not in the amount their competitors are doing it. Since both companies are slowly going out of business its not like they can offer competitive prices either. As a result I seriously doubt you are looking at the same number of surveyed Kmarts as you are Targets. Likewise for Circuit City. To me all this article proves is that kids are buying their games online because they know they wont be able to buy them from the stores they normally shop at.

So a study done in 2005 is supposed to prove that minor related violant crimes is down in 2008? The second picture is just gibberish, what am I looking at? What significance does each video game supposed to represent with the chart? Is it showing that video games is actually lowering violant crimes?

Look Im not closed off to having my mind changed, but old data, and data that shows an unrealistic change is human behavior just wont do it, especially when all you have to do is look around you and you'll see the exact opposite. Spend the next month or so, read your local paper (if you live in a larger city), or a world paper. Watch the news (no I dont mean Fox News), again your local news, CNN. Youre not looking for video game related stuff. Your looking at regular run of the mill news. Watch it for a month then please come back and tell me that underage related violence is down. Start paying attention to the world as a whole, instead of just the US. When I was a kid it was a rare occurence to hear of some 10 year old breaking into a house, a 12 year girl getting raped by 5 15 year olds, kids actually killing each other. Yes it happened back then but now practically every other day something like that is in the news. So please dont sit there and tell me that violence of the sort is down (espeically as dramatically as the second chart shows), when all you have to do is pay attention to the world around you and you'll see the evidence for yourself.

Im not trying to troll your thread, you seem like a really smart guy so Im hoping you understand that. Im also hoping that you can open your mind to the idea that most research studies often have fabricated information if the end result doesnt come out the way certain people hope it would.

I just saw you edited, im sorry but Im actually on my way out, Dark Knight finally hits theaters in Europe so Im out to see that.

maybe you didnt see my edit so ill give you the benefit on that. the chart just shows the pictures of the games that released on those dates and how they did not cause crime to increase. the data is not really old, these statistics are not on a constantly updated basis. you always have data for national crime rates that is a few years old. are you telling me that violent crime has sneakily spiked up to intolerable levels in the last 3 years?

i read my local paper. the news is not a reliable sourse. the department of justice is. the news is always putting its own spin on things, the DoJ is releasing unbiased data. i watch cnn so dont even give me that crap. the problem is you are taking what the news says as if it is commonplace. little info for you, news companies are not charities. they all make a hefty profit. they have a vested interest in ratings. crime gets ratings. violence gets ratings. sex gets ratings. this is why the news is dominated by that news. sure its all you see on the news, because they round up every little incident across the country. crime is actually nowhere near as bad as the news portrays it to be.

also, reporting on these issues has increased dramatically as it has been a proven seller. media coverage increases every year. technology has improved and the spread of information has increased exponentially. this is why you see more things reported now as opposed to when you were a wee lad.

you can pay attention to the news and take it as gospel all you want, but it is not the reality. the news companies have political and financial interests at heart. the DoJ is just posting numbers. are you saying they are actually lying about these numbers? the charts are the facts as reported by law enforcement. news is buried and put on the front page as those with their wallets and political ties deem necessary.

edit: seems we are overlapping our posts, and you are on your way out so enjoy the movie, its awesome. i hope we can continue the debate later.