PS4 will not be revealed in 2012, says Sony

http://kotaku.com/5886251/sonys-us-chief-says-a-ps4-reveal-would-be-a-distraction-in-2012

"I, quite frankly, would be very distracted if I had to be talking about next generation hardware this year," Tretton told IGN. "Right now, we're focused on PlayStation 3, and I've got [the PS Vita] to get out the door in seven days, so I don't want to be thinking about trying to launch new technology anytime soon."

That's SCEA CEO speaking, and for those of you hoping for a PS4 reveal this year, tough luck, Sony is planning to focus all their (and the public's) attention on the Vita and wait until 2013 to reveal any new hardware.

I'm kinda glad to be honest. I still think it's a little early for the next console wave (I understand Nintendo needing to though) There are still PS3 games that are wowing me both in gameplay and visuals.

Yeah, it's ok for me too if it is another year out. In this economy, I am just not looking to plunk down another $400 - $600 for a new console. When my XBox 360 died in 2010, I just let it go. I have two PS3s now, but if one of them goes, there is a good chance I will just leave that slot empty, and I can wait until 2013 or -14 for its replacement.

I reckon the XBox, while it has a lot of room to grow from a service standpoint with the ever-expanding service plug-ins to XBox Live, is more constrained in terms of its hardware platform, and might need to blink first. But then again, I am not sure.

PC games seem to be getting by just fine on DVD and with downloadable installs in the 5 to 7GB range. Because PC games typically have higher textures than console games, I have not figured out why consoles need more room on their optical media than PCs do. In fact, since PC games need to handle more possible hardware variables, it makes me question why I have seen some devs comment that they are running out of room on the 360 while they are contrained to a DVD.

At any rate, the PS3 is a competent console now, and I can wait for another year or two before worrying about the next generation.

- Vr/Z..>>

http://kotaku.com/5886251/sonys-us-chief-says-a-ps4-reveal-would-be-a-distraction-in-2012

"I, quite frankly, would be very distracted if I had to be talking about next generation hardware this year," Tretton told IGN. "Right now, we're focused on PlayStation 3, and I've got [the PS Vita] to get out the door in seven days, so I don't want to be thinking about trying to launch new technology anytime soon."

That's SCEA CEO speaking, and for those of you hoping for a PS4 reveal this year, tough luck, Sony is planning to focus all their (and the public's) attention on the Vita and wait until 2013 to reveal any new hardware.

Black_Knight_00

I doubt they will let Wii U get released in 2012 without even an announcment of a PS4. It's just a bad business decision, which is why they will announce it in some shape or form before the Wii U launches.

I am certain they will do a proper reveal at E3 2013 with a holiday 2013 launch.

I doubt they will let Wii U get released in 2012 without even an announcment of a PS4. It's just a bad business decision, which is why they will announce it in some shape or form before the Wii U launches. I am certain they will do a proper reveal at E3 2013 with a holiday 2013 launch.S0lidSnake

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]I doubt they will let Wii U get released in 2012 without even an announcment of a PS4. It's just a bad business decision, which is why they will announce it in some shape or form before the Wii U launches. I am certain they will do a proper reveal at E3 2013 with a holiday 2013 launch.Black_Knight_00

Looking at how they embarrassed themselves with the Move trying to go after the same audience, i would imagine they consider Wii U as a competitor.

Good, I would be happy to see this gen relevant for another 2 or 3 years honestly.

In the end, it's a smart move by Sony. The PS3 install-base has grown enough to where money is being made on software, and will continue to do so, so why detract from Vita OR possible PS3 sales with an announcement of Next-Gen hardware? Announcing a PS4 before they have to would be suicidal, and although I disagree with the assessment that "The PS3 has SO MUCH UNTAPPED POTENTIAL", it still has a few impressive-looking exclusives in the pipe, so I don't see a huge rush.

I don't think Sony considers the Wii U as competition for the PS4 at all. I know I don't.Black_Knight_00

Yeah. Or at least not yet, anyway. They might change their minds after it's launched.

They'd probably be more concerned if it were Microsoft who were going to unveil and launch a new console soon.

No problem, I still need to buy some games for the PS3 so I wouldn't like to see PS4 out already.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"][QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]I doubt they will let Wii U get released in 2012 without even an announcment of a PS4. It's just a bad business decision, which is why they will announce it in some shape or form before the Wii U launches. I am certain they will do a proper reveal at E3 2013 with a holiday 2013 launch.S0lidSnake

Looking at how they embarrassed themselves with the Move trying to go after the same audience, i would imagine they consider Wii U as a competitor.

It's this sort of clumsy , embarassing approach that makes me conclude Nintendo will still be knee-deep in the casual bog in the next generation. That's what you get when the NoA president is a guy (Reggie) who used to be chief of marketing for Pizza Hut. You make Nintendo the Pizza Hut of gaming.

Late adopters are like people who show up at a fuc*ing restaurant five minutes before closing and then b*tch their fool heads off that everything is shutting down. I hate these people. I hate them not because they opt to wait -- I couldn't care less what they do, it's their time and they can use it how they want. What I hate is their insistence that I DO THE SAME. Instead of getting to the restaurant earlier, they want to whine about why it isn't open later.

Here's a hint: System launches are not made for late adopters. System launches are made for people like myself who have disposable income and the interest in buying killer hardware when the current generation begins to wane. That the manufacturers may be listening to these whiny whey-mouths thinking that it's not time for a new generation, when sales are down below 8 year lows is truly baffling. The early adopter makes it so when the late adopter finishes playing 7 years of backlogged software, the new hardware is affordable. Late adopters crying that the market may move on when they just jumped in is self-defeating of their own tendencies, as I have just stated a sentence back.

In summary: F*ck the late adopter. It is high time for the market to move on -- the sales numbers prove it. Historical trends prove it. It will never be a PERFECT time to launch a new system, but if hardware companies wait until the current generation is more emaciated, they are slitting their own throats. The EARLY ADOPTERS are ready to SPEND MONEY. Make it so.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"] I don't think Sony considers the Wii U as competition for the PS4 at all. I know I don't.Black_Knight_00

Looking at how they embarrassed themselves with the Move trying to go after the same audience, i would imagine they consider Wii U as a competitor.

It's this sort of clumsy , embarassing approach that makes me conclude Nintendo will still be knee-deep in the casual bog in the next generation. That's what you get when the NoA president is a guy (Reggie) who used to be chief of marketing for Pizza Hut. You make Nintendo the Pizza Hut of gaming.

Agreed with most of this, but especially Reggie. What a complete and total jackass he is.

im still happy with my ps3 and expect it to continue to see support for a while, but im not buying this "we arent revealing the ps4 in 2012" talk sony. sony knows the wii u is coming and then the nextbox soon after. i think they also know that releasing too long after those 2 will put them at a serious price disadvantage.

still, i suppose the only sure things will be the rumors. sony cant keep a secret.

Late adopters are like people who show up at a fuc*ing restaurant five minutes before closing and then b*tch their fool heads off that everything is shutting down. I hate these people. I hate them not because they opt to wait -- I couldn't care less what they do, it's their time and they can use it how they want. What I hate is their insistence that I DO THE SAME. Instead of getting to the restaurant earlier, they want to whine about why it isn't open later.

Here's a hint: System launches are not made for late adopters. System launches are made for people like myself who have disposable income and the interest in buying killer hardware when the current generation begins to wane. That the manufacturers may be listening to these whiny whey-mouths thinking that it's not time for a new generation, when sales are down below 8 year lows is truly baffling. The early adopter makes it so when the late adopter finishes playing 7 years of backlogged software, the new hardware is affordable. Late adopters crying that the market may move on when they just jumped in is self-defeating of their own tendencies, as I have just stated a sentence back.

In summary: F*ck the late adopter. It is high time for the market to move on -- the sales numbers prove it. Historical trends prove it. It will never be a PERFECT time to launch a new system, but if hardware companies wait until the current generation is more emaciated, they are slitting their own throats. The EARLY ADOPTERS are ready to SPEND MONEY. Make it so.

Shame-usBlackley

THANK YOU. F*** the late adopter. No one is forcing anyone to buy a system day 1. Im tired of playing the same f***ing Uncharted, Assassin's Creed and CoD every freaking year. Gimme something that will blow me away all over again. And delaying console launches just delays progress.

I'd call the Move an attempt to cash in on the motion controls fad before it fades out. The way I see it, today's Nintendo doesn't know the first thing about how to cater to the core audience the PS4 is intended for: what kind of industry noobs would semi-reveal their console in 2011 and boast it will feature titles like Darksiders 2 and Metro Last Light by the almost dead THQ? Couldn't they find any AAA games to boast about? Oh yes, Batman Arkham City, which I can already buy on Amazon for 20 bucks for PS3 or XBOX. And let's not even mention the fact the Wii U will most likely be slightly more powerful than a PS3, which means the Wii generation gap all over again.

It's this sort of clumsy , embarassing approach that makes me conclude Nintendo will still be knee-deep in the casual bog in the next generation. That's what you get when the NoA president is a guy (Reggie) who used to be chief of marketing for Pizza Hut. You make Nintendo the Pizza Hut of gaming.

Black_Knight_00

I am not going to argue WHY Sony got in the motion control fad. Point is, they saw Nintendo going after a key audience and they pounced on it.

You are making Sony seem like a savior of hardcore games when in fact, prior to the PS3, it was THE casual console out there. You think the Wii had shovelware, you should've seen the Deer Hunter/ Fishing/ laser tag shovelware sitting on shelves for PS1 and PS2. Sony wants the casual audience back just as much as Nintendo and Microsoft. They are going after the casuals.

Nintendo knows that it cant compete with MS and Sony, and they know that the Nintendo fan and soccer moms will buy their next console even if it is an antique piece of tech like the 3DS. They know they have this crowd in the pocket, all they need to do is differentiate themselves from the competition and the tablet is as different as you can get. If you think Nintendo is after the hadrcore crowd, then i dont know what to tell you. They already have the hardcore crowd who will eat up a new zelda, a new mario, mario cart, metroid or pikmin. The key audience is the casual audience and the tablet gimmick is aimed at the iPad and iPhone crowd which is all the rage nowadays.

Late adopters are like people who show up at a fuc*ing restaurant five minutes before closing and then b*tch their fool heads off that everything is shutting down. I hate these people. I hate them not because they opt to wait -- I couldn't care less what they do, it's their time and they can use it how they want. What I hate is their insistence that I DO THE SAME. Instead of getting to the restaurant earlier, they want to whine about why it isn't open later.

Here's a hint: System launches are not made for late adopters. System launches are made for people like myself who have disposable income and the interest in buying killer hardware when the current generation begins to wane. That the manufacturers may be listening to these whiny whey-mouths thinking that it's not time for a new generation, when sales are down below 8 year lows is truly baffling. The early adopter makes it so when the late adopter finishes playing 7 years of backlogged software, the new hardware is affordable. Late adopters crying that the market may move on when they just jumped in is self-defeating of their own tendencies, as I have just stated a sentence back.

In summary: F*ck the late adopter. It is high time for the market to move on -- the sales numbers prove it. Historical trends prove it. It will never be a PERFECT time to launch a new system, but if hardware companies wait until the current generation is more emaciated, they are slitting their own throats. The EARLY ADOPTERS are ready to SPEND MONEY. Make it so.

Shame-usBlackley

This really isn't a big deal for me. I don't see Sony really be scared of the Wii-U coming this year since they're target audiences are completely different. As long as the PS4 has its own set of unique features then I also don't see it being a problem if it comes out after the new Xbox. I know a lot of people who have 360s now and are complaining about the lack of exclusives (at least ones they're interested in) and having to pay to play online even though they're not avid online users.

Though, I'd imagine right now they have to be focused on the PSV, as I know a lot of people who want one but refuse to pay $100 for a memory card and then pay a higher rate for Uncharted. That, and I know I'm waiting for the bugs to be worked out, which I learned to do after getting a PSP close to launch and having it fail on me.

I am not going to argue WHY Sony got in the motion control fad. Point is, they saw Nintendo going after a key audience and they pounced on it.

You are making Sony seem like a savior of hardcore games when in fact, prior to the PS3, it was THE casual console out there. You think the Wii had shovelware, you should've seen the Deer Hunter/ Fishing/ laser tag shovelware sitting on shelves for PS1 and PS2. Sony wants the casual audience back just as much as Nintendo and Microsoft. They are going after the casuals.

Nintendo knows that it cant compete with MS and Sony, and they know that the Nintendo fan and soccer moms will buy their next console even if it is an antique piece of tech like the 3DS. They know they have this crowd in the pocket, all they need to do is differentiate themselves from the competition and the tablet is as different as you can get. If you think Nintendo is after the hadrcore crowd, then i dont know what to tell you. They already have the hardcore crowd who will eat up a new zelda, a new mario, mario cart, metroid or pikmin. The key audience is the casual audience and the tablet gimmick is aimed at the iPad and iPhone crowd which is all the rage nowadays.S0lidSnake

The soccer moms and people who bought a kinect (I feel your pain, people) are a side market for the big boys of the gaming scene, but Nintendo made them their main focus and that's why they lost 90% of their fans and that's because their new management has sucked a monkey's derriere since 2002. People like Iwata and Reggie should not be making videogames and sould in no case be the chiefs of Nintendo.

are late adopters actually complaining?SapSacPrime

Constantly.

You can find them in every thread related to next-gen hardware bemoaning the fact that they "just bought their system" and how unfair it is that a new generation is coming. They are irrational -- ignorant of market trends. Prior to this generation, we would already be well underway with the next generation. Again, I don't blame anyone for their decision to wait -- perhaps money was tight, perhaps the right game hadn't come out, perhaps they're just stupid -- whatever. What I DO have a problem with is this selfish notion of theirs that the generation should somehow wait behind for them.

If hardware releases were centered around cyclical tables for late adopters, the market would crash. Those types of buyers don't push the industry forward -- they hold it back. They are the devil on the executive's shoulder telling him that everyone is happy with ten year old hardware. We are getting to a point where the games are being limited by the hardware, and that will be even more exacerbated in the coming 12 months. It takes two to three years to really get a new generation cooking, and these tools want everyone to wait just because they waited for a price drop or three and the reality is they wouldn't buy new hardware in the next year or two anyway. It's ridiculous.

And again, I don't begrudge them for choosing to wait, but when companies (like Sony) start to ignore sales numbers and listen to people that aren't going to buy new hardware regardless, then I get all dickish.

[QUOTE="S0lidSnake"]I am not going to argue WHY Sony got in the motion control fad. Point is, they saw Nintendo going after a key audience and they pounced on it.

You are making Sony seem like a savior of hardcore games when in fact, prior to the PS3, it was THE casual console out there. You think the Wii had shovelware, you should've seen the Deer Hunter/ Fishing/ laser tag shovelware sitting on shelves for PS1 and PS2. Sony wants the casual audience back just as much as Nintendo and Microsoft. They are going after the casuals.

Nintendo knows that it cant compete with MS and Sony, and they know that the Nintendo fan and soccer moms will buy their next console even if it is an antique piece of tech like the 3DS. They know they have this crowd in the pocket, all they need to do is differentiate themselves from the competition and the tablet is as different as you can get. If you think Nintendo is after the hadrcore crowd, then i dont know what to tell you. They already have the hardcore crowd who will eat up a new zelda, a new mario, mario cart, metroid or pikmin. The key audience is the casual audience and the tablet gimmick is aimed at the iPad and iPhone crowd which is all the rage nowadays.Black_Knight_00

The soccer moms and people who bought a kinect (I feel your pain, people) are a side market for the big boys of the gaming scene, but Nintendo made them their main focus and that's why they lost 90% of their fans and that's because their new management has sucked a monkey's derriere since 2002. People like Iwata and Reggie should not be making videogames and sould in no case be the chiefs of Nintendo.

Nintendo's crap is what is going to kill the industry if smarter minds don't prevail. They are far more than a danger to just themselves. They'e shat up an entire industry with their failed experiments.

[QUOTE="SapSacPrime"] are late adopters actually complaining?Shame-usBlackley

Constantly.

You can find them in every thread related to next-gen hardware bemoaning the fact that they "just bought their system" and how unfair it is that a new generation is coming. They are irrational -- ignorant of market trends. Prior to this generation, we would already be well underway with the next generation. Again, I don't blame anyone for their decision to wait -- perhaps money was tight, perhaps the right game hadn't come out, perhaps they're just stupid -- whatever. What I DO have a problem with is this selfish notion of theirs that the generation should somehow wait behind for them.

If hardware releases were centered around cyclical tables for late adopters, the market would crash. Those types of buyers don't push the industry forward -- they hold it back. They are the devil on the executive's shoulder telling him that everyone is happy with ten year old hardware. We are getting to a point where the games are being limited by the hardware, and that will be even more exacerbated in the coming 12 months. It takes two to three years to really get a new generation cooking, and these tools want everyone to wait just because they waited for a price drop or three and the reality is they wouldn't buy new hardware in the next year or two anyway. It's ridiculous.

And again, I don't begrudge them for choosing to wait, but when companies (like Sony) start to ignore sales numbers and listen to people that aren't going to buy new hardware regardless, then I get all dickish.

But I think Sony isn't ignoring sales numbers. It just doesn't make any sense from a business standpoint to release or even announce a new console now, when their old one is still going quite strong. I'm sure you realize no video game developer is in it purely to push the envelope, or to make people like you who are on the bleeding edge happy.

The smart way to proceed would be to wait for software sales to slow down a bit, THEN announce the new machine. Revealing the PS4 or XBOX720 this year would just mean that most people who would buy a console would rather wait for the newer one, which would force both Sony and Microsoft to significantly drop prices on their existing hardware.

But I think Sony isn't ignoring sales numbers. It just doesn't make any sense from a business standpoint to release or even announce a new console now, when their old one is still going quite strong. I'm sure you realize no video game developer is in it purely to push the envelope, or to make people like you who are on the bleeding edge happy.

The smart way to proceed would be to wait for software sales to slow down a bit, THEN announce the new machine. Revealing the PS4 or XBOX720 this year would just mean that most people who would buy a console would rather wait for the newer one, which would force both Sony and Microsoft to significantly drop prices on their existing hardware.

KleptoZ

It makes perfect sense to release now. Thirty years of precedent says so, including Sony's own successful transition from the PS1 to the PS2. Read the NPD numbers from last month -- they have slowed down. Way down. Further, the technology IS getting dated -- perhaps you haven't noticed framerate issues and content cutting in your games, but I have.

And please, people who are on the fence for a PS3 that costs $249 and has been out for seven years aren't going to hold off on buying a PS3 so they can buy a new PS4 for more money with no library. That's the grand fallacy being committed by the late adopter -- they try to act relevant to a console's launch, but they're not. They have zero stake in how well a new console launches, because they won't be buying it for a half decade or so. This idea that they might be scared off a current-gen purchase by the mere mention of new hardware coming is ridiculous. This is nothing new to them, either -- late adopters have been around for decades. Companies basing hard-money decisions around what a tire-kicker like a late adopter "might" do is a recipe for failure.

The soccer moms and people who bought a kinect (I feel your pain, people) are a side market for the big boys of the gaming scene, but Nintendo made them their main focus and that's why they lost 90% of their fans and that's because their new management has sucked a monkey's derriere since 2002. People like Iwata and Reggie should not be making videogames and sould in no case be the chiefs of Nintendo.

Black_Knight_00

So if I am understanding your argument correctly, what you're saying is that Nintendo betting on the casuals is going to bite them in the ass with the Wii U?

If so, then i'd have to disagree. Betting on the casuals and inticing them with gimmicks (the dual screen of DS, the 3D of the 3DS, and the motion controls of the Wii) has worked out perfectly for them. They have made billions of dollars selling the Wii and DS to the casuals and casuals alone. The resurgence of the 360 is mainly due to MS focusing on the Kinect. Barely a month after Kinect was revealed, the 360 became the best selling console and aside from Decemeber 2010, it has led every single month ever since. MS was doing a decent job selling to the hardcore but it was their pandering to the Kinect crowd that made them the undisputed leader. It is anything but a side market, it's a massive market. How many exlcuisves has MS put out since E3 2010? Gears, Forza, Fable and Halo Reach? What else? They are going the Nintendo route, by focusing on a bunch of core franchises and rehashing them again and again because they know that fans of these games will keep on buying them, just like Mario and Zelda fans.

Again, Nintendo knows it cant compete with Sony and MS, and simply cant put out an expensive next gen console. Hence the tablet gimmick. Say what you will about Iwata and Reggie, they are good business men, they know the market, they know how to exploit it and the tablet is their best bet right now. It's kind of brilliant, bad for the gaming industry, yes, but as a business model, it's brilliant. At the end of the day, MS's next console will be in the same league as the PS4, but will come with a gimmick of its own and compete against both the Wii U and the PS4. MS will take a loss on the console originally nut Nintendo simply cant afford to sell their console at a loss. Especially not after the 3DS debacle. Iwata and Reggie know how to pick their battles, and they've done a great job with the tablet.

The smart way to proceed would be to wait for software sales to slow down a bit, THEN announce the new machine. Revealing the PS4 or XBOX720 this year would just mean that most people who would buy a console would rather wait for the newer one, which would force both Sony and Microsoft to significantly drop prices on their existing hardware.

KleptoZ

PS2 was selling pretty damn well until 2010. Hell, it was selling so well that Sony didnt bother giving it a price cut for SIX years. It remained $129 from 2004 to 2009. The idea that late adopters will get scared by new console announcements is impractical because they are simply the crowd who treats consoles as toys they can purchase for $99 rather than an investment like the rest of us do.

That said, I agree with you that it doesn't make much sense to announce it now since the console launches are still 20 months away assuming they launch in November 2013. The only reason why they would want to do it is to inform people, people in this very thread, let alone the casuals, that they next gen PS is NOT 3 years away. I find it hilarious that some people are ok with 2014 hardware launches.

Actually no, it makes me my blood boil.

So if I am understanding your argument correctly, what you're saying is that Nintendo betting on the casuals is going to bite them in the ass with the Wii U?

If so, then i'd have to disagree. Betting on the casuals and inticing them with gimmicks (the dual screen of DS, the 3D of the 3DS, and the motion controls of the Wii) has worked out perfectly for them. They have made billions of dollars selling the Wii and DS to the casuals and casuals alone. The resurgence of the 360 is mainly due to MS focusing on the Kinect. Barely a month after Kinect was revealed, the 360 became the best selling console and aside from Decemeber 2010, it has led every single month ever since. MS was doing a decent job selling to the hardcore but it was their pandering to the Kinect crowd that made them the undisputed leader. It is anything but a side market, it's a massive market. How many exlcuisves has MS put out since E3 2010? Gears, Forza, Fable and Halo Reach? What else? They are going the Nintendo route, by focusing on a bunch of core franchises and rehashing them again and again because they know that fans of these games will keep on buying them, just like Mario and Zelda fans.

Again, Nintendo knows it cant compete with Sony and MS, and simply cant put out an expensive next gen console. Hence the tablet gimmick. Say what you will about Iwata and Reggie, they are good business men, they know the market, they know how to exploit it and the tablet is their best bet right now. It's kind of brilliant, bad for the gaming industry, yes, but as a business model, it's brilliant. At the end of the day, MS's next console will be in the same league as the PS4, but will come with a gimmick of its own and compete against both the Wii U and the PS4. MS will take a loss on the console originally nut Nintendo simply cant afford to sell their console at a loss. Especially not after the 3DS debacle. Iwata and Reggie know how to pick their battles, and they've done a great job with the tablet.

S0lidSnake

[QUOTE="KleptoZ"]

But I think Sony isn't ignoring sales numbers. It just doesn't make any sense from a business standpoint to release or even announce a new console now, when their old one is still going quite strong. I'm sure you realize no video game developer is in it purely to push the envelope, or to make people like you who are on the bleeding edge happy.

The smart way to proceed would be to wait for software sales to slow down a bit, THEN announce the new machine. Revealing the PS4 or XBOX720 this year would just mean that most people who would buy a console would rather wait for the newer one, which would force both Sony and Microsoft to significantly drop prices on their existing hardware.

Shame-usBlackley

It makes perfect sense to release now. Thirty years of precedent says so, including Sony's own successful transition from the PS1 to the PS2. Read the NPD numbers from last month -- they have slowed down. Way down. Further, the technology IS getting dated -- perhaps you haven't noticed framerate issues and content cutting in your games, but I have.

And please, people who are on the fence for a PS3 that costs $249 and has been out for seven years aren't going to hold off on buying a PS3 so they can buy a new PS4 for more money with no library. That's the grand fallacy being committed by the late adopter -- they try to act relevant to a console's launch, but they're not. They have zero stake in how well a new console launches, because they won't be buying it for a half decade or so. This idea that they might be scared off a current-gen purchase by the mere mention of new hardware coming is ridiculous. This is nothing new to them, either -- late adopters have been around for decades. Companies basing hard-money decisions around what a tire-kicker like a late adopter "might" do is a recipe for failure.

The technology is old, naturally. I just honestly believe both consoles still have a year to go before they should safely announce a new console. In the meantime I'm sure some developers already have some rudimentary form of development kits for the new systems, just to make sure when the new consoles do come out (I'm thinking late 2013) you'll also get your next gen Uncharteds or Halos.

I'm also happy with this i can wait another 2 or 3 years before i buy a new console.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

I'd call the Move an attempt to cash in on the motion controls fad before it fades out. The way I see it, today's Nintendo doesn't know the first thing about how to cater to the core audience the PS4 is intended for: what kind of industry noobs would semi-reveal their console in 2011 and boast it will feature titles like Darksiders 2 and Metro Last Light by the almost dead THQ? Couldn't they find any AAA games to boast about? Oh yes, Batman Arkham City, which I can already buy on Amazon for 20 bucks for PS3 or XBOX. And let's not even mention the fact the Wii U will most likely be slightly more powerful than a PS3, which means the Wii generation gap all over again.

It's this sort of clumsy , embarassing approach that makes me conclude Nintendo will still be knee-deep in the casual bog in the next generation. That's what you get when the NoA president is a guy (Reggie) who used to be chief of marketing for Pizza Hut. You make Nintendo the Pizza Hut of gaming.

S0lidSnake

I am not going to argue WHY Sony got in the motion control fad. Point is, they saw Nintendo going after a key audience and they pounced on it.

You are making Sony seem like a savior of hardcore games when in fact, prior to the PS3, it was THE casual console out there. You think the Wii had shovelware, you should've seen the Deer Hunter/ Fishing/ laser tag shovelware sitting on shelves for PS1 and PS2. Sony wants the casual audience back just as much as Nintendo and Microsoft. They are going after the casuals.

Nintendo knows that it cant compete with MS and Sony, and they know that the Nintendo fan and soccer moms will buy their next console even if it is an antique piece of tech like the 3DS. They know they have this crowd in the pocket, all they need to do is differentiate themselves from the competition and the tablet is as different as you can get. If you think Nintendo is after the hadrcore crowd, then i dont know what to tell you. They already have the hardcore crowd who will eat up a new zelda, a new mario, mario cart, metroid or pikmin. The key audience is the casual audience and the tablet gimmick is aimed at the iPad and iPhone crowd which is all the rage nowadays.

I doubt motion control is a fad, but I don't think its the only future either. Sony has been into motion control since the PS Eye (possibly before that). The Move does resemble the Wiimote, but it doesn't simplify things (still has the full range of buttons and what have you) and of course is more accurate, so its more useful for full games. The Move has done wonders for designers in LBP (it allows them to paint their own textures and to create new art using LBP's large collection of stickers) and speaking as PGD's resident LBP fanatic that alone justifies its existence in my eyes.

The PS1 and 2 were enjoyed by casuals, but unlike the Wii, they weren't built for casuals (full controllers, state of the art hardware) and partially as a result, 3rd party and first party support for core games was orders of magnitude stronger, so I don't think it makes sense to compare them to the Wii. The existence of casual gamers doesn't need to negatively impact the existence of core gamers. I think its regrettable that MS is following Nintendo's lead and shifting focus away from the still healthy core market to casual games but Sony certainly isn't. In the case of MS, it should be kept in mind that most of the audience is still core focused, which is why third party support for core games is outstanding. Unless MS does something hideously stupid with the X720 (cloning the Wii's interface for example, thus given core gamers no good control options) I expect that will continue to be the case.

Also, Nintendo has a portion of the core audience, but most core gamers don't get dizzy with delight during the weekly Mario announcement. If you want to see how large Nintendo's core audience is, look at GC sales and then think about the fact it was outsold by the PS2 by a factor of 7 and was even outsold by the Xbox eventually (the Xbox had longer legs down the road because MS continued to offer new experiences, while Nintendo focused on cranking out Mario games as fast as possible).

Casuals are important in the console industry (if Nintendo recaptures the casual audience, it will be sitting pretty) but the core is the key. The core is the reason that the X360 and the PS3 have higher tie-in ratios and longer legs. Its not that casuals are going away, but neither are core gamers and we buy more games. The fact the the PS3 and X360 have higher retail tie-in ratios is even more striking when one considers the fact that they have very healthy downloadable game markets.

If Nintendo manages to establish themselves as a hardcore platform alongside Xbox 3, Sony risks loosing their position, they'd have to respond quickly if they want to maintain relevancy.

I can see Wii U priced $350, the strategy being to deliver key 1st party software in HD (Mario, Smash Bros, Wii Fit, Zelda, DKC), new IPs that will appeal to the expanded audience (Wii Pictionary, Vitality Sensor) and tablet-enhanced "current gen" multiplats. Their 1st party franchises will differentiate from past iterations by taking advantage of the uPad.

They will also receive next gen multiplats because Nintendo and MS will meet halfway power wise. I predict the power difference between Xbox3/WiiU will be similar to PS3/360. Hopefully MS releases their own version of the uPad for developers to have the required incentive to fully utilize its capabilities and change the core of their games instead of merely enhancing them (equivalent of waggle).

Development costs are going up. Blue ocean is becoming red ocean. Nintendo will be forced to depend more on 3rd parties, and they want Sony's position so they better watch out.

If Nintendo manages to establish themselves as a hardcore platform alongside Xbox 3, Sony risks loosing their position, they'd have to respond quickly if they want to maintain relevancy.

I can see Wii U priced $350, the strategy being to deliver key 1st party software in HD (Mario, Smash Bros, Wii Fit, Zelda, DKC), new IPs that will appeal to the expanded audience (Wii Pictionary, Vitality Sensor) and tablet-enhanced "current gen" multiplats. Their 1st party franchises will differentiate from past iterations by taking advantage of the uPad.

They will also receive next gen multiplats because Nintendo and MS will meet halfway power wise. I predict the power difference between Xbox3/WiiU will be similar to PS3/360. Hopefully MS releases their own version of the uPad for developers to have the required incentive to fully utilize its capabilities and change the core of their games instead of merely enhancing them (equivalent of waggle).

Development costs are going up. Blue ocean is becoming red ocean. Nintendo will be forced to depend more on 3rd parties, and they want Sony's position so they better watch out.

SuperFlakeman

You've probably forgotten more about Nintendo then I will ever know, but I'm pretty sure the vitality sensor was never released.

Given that the three consoles in history which sold 100,000,000 units launched at 300 or less, I don't see why anyone would launch at a higher price point.

[QUOTE="KleptoZ"]

But I think Sony isn't ignoring sales numbers. It just doesn't make any sense from a business standpoint to release or even announce a new console now, when their old one is still going quite strong. I'm sure you realize no video game developer is in it purely to push the envelope, or to make people like you who are on the bleeding edge happy.

The smart way to proceed would be to wait for software sales to slow down a bit, THEN announce the new machine. Revealing the PS4 or XBOX720 this year would just mean that most people who would buy a console would rather wait for the newer one, which would force both Sony and Microsoft to significantly drop prices on their existing hardware.

Shame-usBlackley

It makes perfect sense to release now. Thirty years of precedent says so, including Sony's own successful transition from the PS1 to the PS2. Read the NPD numbers from last month -- they have slowed down. Way down. Further, the technology IS getting dated -- perhaps you haven't noticed framerate issues and content cutting in your games, but I have.

And please, people who are on the fence for a PS3 that costs $249 and has been out for seven years aren't going to hold off on buying a PS3 so they can buy a new PS4 for more money with no library. That's the grand fallacy being committed by the late adopter -- they try to act relevant to a console's launch, but they're not. They have zero stake in how well a new console launches, because they won't be buying it for a half decade or so. This idea that they might be scared off a current-gen purchase by the mere mention of new hardware coming is ridiculous. This is nothing new to them, either -- late adopters have been around for decades. Companies basing hard-money decisions around what a tire-kicker like a late adopter "might" do is a recipe for failure.

I don't get your anger towards the late adopter heare ShameUs. You aren't REALLY blaming us late adopters for the next gen not having started are you? I agree with the point of your posts, if not their tone. Still, I'm sure that Sony/MS/Ninty aren't concerned about a decidedly small piece of marketshare who they probably will benefit little from anyway as late adopters usually buy used consoles/games. Noone is committed to the late adopter. So why are you making a big stink about it?

We dont need new consoles as of yet anyways. The ps3s exclusive libarary is still going very strong & has a lot more to come this year. The software is here & now. Not on th ps4

I think this is Sonys last year before they make the push for PS4. Maybe next year a PS4 announcement will be made, with a release date of late 2014. Thats my guess

Whether this happens or not does not matter. With each generation of hardware & software, the game development time increases. Most likely we wont see anything relevent from either the ps4 or the 720 for the 1st 3 years.

Sony has already stated a 10 years lifespan & support for the Ps3. The games & library on the Ps3 will keep it going strong for years to come.

I was always one to jump ship immediately when the new hardware comes out but we've gotten to a point where its best to wait. Im not paying $600 for a system with some last gen ports, 2 or 3 new games, & a very long waiting time for a decent library.

Im not desperate. There's just too many amazing titles still being released on these systems. Im very comfortable & happy with where we are right now.

I'm ready for them to get on to another console. There is so much progress to be made. After playing Skyrim, which I thought was a truly awesome game (150+ hours, baby!), I have come to the realization of how limited both consoles really are. I always thought 10 years to be a little too long. In fact, that's crazy long for the electronics industry. The same industry that ultimately "eats it's own" - see the TV industry for reference.

If the new consoles have backwards compatibility, true backwards compatibility, then I wouldn't mind buying a new console every 7 - 8 years.

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

If Nintendo manages to establish themselves as a hardcore platform alongside Xbox 3, Sony risks loosing their position, they'd have to respond quickly if they want to maintain relevancy.

I can see Wii U priced $350, the strategy being to deliver key 1st party software in HD (Mario, Smash Bros, Wii Fit, Zelda, DKC), new IPs that will appeal to the expanded audience (Wii Pictionary, Vitality Sensor) and tablet-enhanced "current gen" multiplats. Their 1st party franchises will differentiate from past iterations by taking advantage of the uPad.

They will also receive next gen multiplats because Nintendo and MS will meet halfway power wise. I predict the power difference between Xbox3/WiiU will be similar to PS3/360. Hopefully MS releases their own version of the uPad for developers to have the required incentive to fully utilize its capabilities and change the core of their games instead of merely enhancing them (equivalent of waggle).

Development costs are going up. Blue ocean is becoming red ocean. Nintendo will be forced to depend more on 3rd parties, and they want Sony's position so they better watch out.

CarnageHeart

You've probably forgotten more about Nintendo then I will ever know, but I'm pretty sure the vitality sensor was never released.

Given that the three consoles in history which sold 100,000,000 units launched at 300 or less, I don't see why anyone would launch at a higher price point.

The new IPs are predictions made by me for Wii U. I propose that an official Pictionary game from Nintendo done on the uPad would drive Wii U hardware sales similar to how Wii Fit did in 08. They need it, or similar key titles, to succeed on a larger scale. Simply doing sequels to multi million sellers on Wii won't cut it, they need entirely new IPs. Chase Mii is also a good title that received positive feedback at E3, maybe that will be a pack in with the hardware.

I think Wii U will be priced $350 because if it isn't, Sony and MS could easily 1up it and create a Wii situation, this time around Nintendo needs the 3rd parties. And also if they want Wii's level of profitability. They are already taking a loss / minimal profit from 3DS just to keep it selling on DS levels, and I imagine they intend to maintain some kind of profit margin throughout the gen, especially because going from Wii+DS to Wii U+3DS has increased their software development budgets significantly. They even invested in mass hiring to prepare for the HD era just months ago, and that was during Nintendo's worst period financially in years.

Nintendo should not be taken lightly. They just came out as total market leader and they have a ton money in the bank. MS is prepared and Sony is currently paralyzed as a whole, so I think Nintendo will focus on taking out Sony. With MH secured it looks like they already managed to do that in the handheld space, Vita is underperforming badly relative to PSP. Sony needs to act.

[QUOTE="CarnageHeart"]

[QUOTE="SuperFlakeman"]

If Nintendo manages to establish themselves as a hardcore platform alongside Xbox 3, Sony risks loosing their position, they'd have to respond quickly if they want to maintain relevancy.

I can see Wii U priced $350, the strategy being to deliver key 1st party software in HD (Mario, Smash Bros, Wii Fit, Zelda, DKC), new IPs that will appeal to the expanded audience (Wii Pictionary, Vitality Sensor) and tablet-enhanced "current gen" multiplats. Their 1st party franchises will differentiate from past iterations by taking advantage of the uPad.

They will also receive next gen multiplats because Nintendo and MS will meet halfway power wise. I predict the power difference between Xbox3/WiiU will be similar to PS3/360. Hopefully MS releases their own version of the uPad for developers to have the required incentive to fully utilize its capabilities and change the core of their games instead of merely enhancing them (equivalent of waggle).

Development costs are going up. Blue ocean is becoming red ocean. Nintendo will be forced to depend more on 3rd parties, and they want Sony's position so they better watch out.

SuperFlakeman

You've probably forgotten more about Nintendo then I will ever know, but I'm pretty sure the vitality sensor was never released.

Given that the three consoles in history which sold 100,000,000 units launched at 300 or less, I don't see why anyone would launch at a higher price point.

The new IPs are predictions made by me for Wii U. I propose that an official Pictionary game from Nintendo done on the uPad would drive Wii U hardware sales similar to how Wii Fit did in 08. They need it, or similar key titles, to succeed on a larger scale. Simply doing sequels to multi million sellers on Wii won't cut it, they need entirely new IPs. Chase Mii is also a good title that received positive feedback at E3, maybe that will be a pack in with the hardware.

I think Wii U will be priced $350 because if it isn't, Sony and MS could easily 1up it and create a Wii situation, this time around Nintendo needs the 3rd parties. And also if they want Wii's level of profitability. They are already taking a loss / minimal profit from 3DS just to keep it selling on DS levels, and I imagine they intend to maintain some kind of profit margin throughout the gen, especially because going from Wii+DS to Wii U+3DS has increased their software development budgets significantly. They even invested in mass hiring to prepare for the HD era just months ago, and that was during Nintendo's worst period financially in years.

Nintendo should not be taken lightly. They just came out as total market leader and they have a ton money in the bank. MS is prepared and Sony is currently paralyzed as a whole, so I think Nintendo will focus on taking out Sony. With MH secured it looks like they already managed to do that in the handheld space, Vita is underperforming badly relative to PSP. Sony needs to act.

Casuals will buy game X for years, but perhaps on a related note, there is little evidence they care much for franchises/sequels (the sequels to Wii Fit and Wii Sports did not do anywhere near as well as their predecessors). However, Nintendo is perfectly capable of cranking out new casual games and interfaces. I think their problem is that theymight not be able to'out-casual' the Kinect.

Nintendo talked about how buttons intimidated casuals and introduced a controller with fewer buttons. MS went a step further and removed the controller. Yes, no controller means less control, but there's little evidence casuals care about precision (which wasn't a strength of the Wiimote either). Now Nintendo has kind of crossbred a more or less full controller and a tablet, which goes against their past talk about complexity alienating casuals. And its doubtful whether it will be a big draw to core gamers because gamers can't really pay full attention to two screens at once. It might prove useful for offline multiplayer games, but for single person at a console (which includes online multiplayer) games core gamers tend to love, I doubt it will be useful.

As for Nintendo engaging in mass hiring, that's interesting, but what sort of people are they hiring? Nintendo is a famously top down organization whose highest compliment is not to give talented game makers the ability to make the games they want to make, but the right to make games based on old Japanese franchises under the close supervision of Miyamoto. if I strongly suspect the people flocking to Nintendo are people looking for steady paychecks (no small thing in these troubled times) who have no creative ambitions.

I agree the Vita is selling poorly in Japan, but it is worth noting that in Japan the DS didn't take off until Nintendogs and Brain Training, the PSP didn't take off until Monster Hunter (which Nintendo has purchased exclusivity to) and the 3DS didn't take off until its pricecut (which happened five months after launch), so the three month old Vita not flying off shelves (to put it mildly) isn't unprecedented and isn't worrying yet.

I don't get your anger towards the late adopter heare ShameUs. You aren't REALLY blaming us late adopters for the next gen not having started are you? I agree with the point of your posts, if not their tone. Still, I'm sure that Sony/MS/Ninty aren't concerned about a decidedly small piece of marketshare who they probably will benefit little from anyway as late adopters usually buy used consoles/games. Noone is committed to the late adopter. So why are you making a big stink about it?

sayyy-gaa

It's simple. I hear a ton of late adopters crying for the generation to wait, because, let's face it -- this generation has had far too much emphasis placed on groups who do not matter relative to the task at hand (non-gamers, for example).

I don't want console manufacturers (who already stupidly wanted to buck the established 6 year trend with hardware launches) to listen to people who aren't in the market for hardware anyway and in the process tank the industry. Technology drives the market. The market has always evolved every half decade or so. There is an immense amount of stupidity flinging around on the part of hardware makers who foolishly believe that a hardware launch two years from now will somehow be less painful than it would be now. It makes far more sense to launch new hardware when your existing stuff is strong, offsetting a good deal of the losses incurred while the current base buoys the fledgling system until it gets on its feet. My point is this: If these companies launch in 2014, you won't see those systems really get off the ground until 2016! There is a good chance that the existing market would be dead by that point, and they will be trying to develop a new base when the exising one is in the ground.

Again, I have no problem with someone who waited until the generation was over to buy hardware. But I do have a problem when they want to yap about how awful it is that the next generation is coming when no one held a gun to their head to wait until now to jump in to buy dirt cheap hardware and a bunch of Greatest Hits titles. Like I said, I don't fault them for that, I fault them for not having the good sense to shut up and let the early adopters make it so they can do it again.

While I'm not surprised, I'm pretty sure Sony will reveal PS4 at E3 2013 or earlier for their sake. A 2014 launch will put them well behind the Wii and 360 ( MS seems to be going after the Wii audience though) . Keep in mind that it usually takes 12-18 months after a console launch to see a true next-gen game that couldn't have been possible on previous gen console to arrive. Not looking good, I hope developers start focusing on PC exclusives and indie games.

i doubt that sony will ever announce a ps4....until like 2015

Again, I have no problem with someone who waited until the generation was over to buy hardware. But I do have a problem when they want to yap about how awful it is that the next generation is coming when no one held a gun to their head to wait until now to jump in to buy dirt cheap hardware and a bunch of Greatest Hits titles. Like I said, I don't fault them for that, I fault them for not having the good sense to shut up and let the early adopters make it so they can do it again.

Shame-usBlackley

I think there is a balance that needs to be maintained. I'm hoping there will be news of a 2013 hardware release during E3 this year. I'm not sure I'm looking forward to a third straight year of the Kinect and Move show.

[QUOTE="sayyy-gaa"]

I don't get your anger towards the late adopter heare ShameUs. You aren't REALLY blaming us late adopters for the next gen not having started are you? I agree with the point of your posts, if not their tone. Still, I'm sure that Sony/MS/Ninty aren't concerned about a decidedly small piece of marketshare who they probably will benefit little from anyway as late adopters usually buy used consoles/games. Noone is committed to the late adopter. So why are you making a big stink about it?

Shame-usBlackley

It's simple. I hear a ton of late adopters crying for the generation to wait, because, let's face it -- this generation has had far too much emphasis placed on groups who do not matter relative to the task at hand (non-gamers, for example).

I don't want console manufacturers (who already stupidly wanted to buck the established 6 year trend with hardware launches) to listen to people who aren't in the market for hardware anyway and in the process tank the industry. Technology drives the market. The market has always evolved every half decade or so. There is an immense amount of stupidity flinging around on the part of hardware makers who foolishly believe that a hardware launch two years from now will somehow be less painful than it would be now. It makes far more sense to launch new hardware when your existing stuff is strong, offsetting a good deal of the losses incurred while the current base buoys the fledgling system until it gets on its feet. My point is this: If these companies launch in 2014, you won't see those systems really get off the ground until 2016! There is a good chance that the existing market would be dead by that point, and they will be trying to develop a new base when the exising one is in the ground.

Again, I have no problem with someone who waited until the generation was over to buy hardware. But I do have a problem when they want to yap about how awful it is that the next generation is coming when no one held a gun to their head to wait until now to jump in to buy dirt cheap hardware and a bunch of Greatest Hits titles. Like I said, I don't fault them for that, I fault them for not having the good sense to shut up and let the early adopters make it so they can do it again.

well i'm not ready for PS4 yet anyway