Punished by Steam for buying legal software

Recently I went on holiday to Hong Kong (I live in Singapore) and picked up a copy of Left4Dead 2. I can get the game in Singapore but it's only available in an A3 envelope that doesnt fit on the shelf.

I got it back to Singapore and I can't install it because apparently it's region coded. So I contacted Steam to ask if I could have a key for my region and they refused, without explanation.

This is anti-consumer rubbish. The PC has succeeded because it's an open platform, and Steam has succeeded because of the PC. The only reason for them to have a region-coding policy is so that they can have a differential pricing structure, but what that means in practice is that if you buy software in one part of the world, quite legally, for hard cash which goes towards Steam's bottom line, it won't work somewhere else. This has NEVER been the case with PC software before, and we should all be fighting this development as hard as we can. Incidentally, if you buy it from them as a download, it's not region locked - but I want a physical product so that's no good to me.

Oh yes, it did say on the box its for Hong Kong and Macau only - IN TINY PRINT ON THE BACK AT THE BOTTOM. Last year I ended up buying the original Left4Dead in Australia, again because I didn't want the non-standard packaging the Singapore version came in, and it worked fine. So was I really supposed to expect that wouldn't be the case this time? As far as I can judge, Steam are simply not playing fair here. All I want is a key for a different region so I can play the game I paid for, but photos of the receipt and the installation key from the game weren't enough for them. They've taken my money and screwed me over without giving any justification for their actions, so it's time for a bit of name and shame.

IN TINY PRINT ON THE BACK AT THE BOTTOM.

oakeshott

That's part of the terms and conditions of your usage of the software you failed to read there.

That sucks, but you really should do your research when buying software abroad. Like you said, it's not region locked if you buy it off Steam, so the Hong Kong/Macau version is most likely due to some legality issue rather than Valve. However, if you presented them with a reciept and everything, they could've offered you the Steam version since your retail version is de facto useless.

@Vesica - and do you really think it's fair play to put those vital restrictions where they are least likely to be seen? If you're going to impose those sort of conditions, they need to be front and centre, not in the proverbial basement with no lightbulb, broken stairs and a sign saying 'beware of the leopard' on the door. Moreover, given I bought a copy of the original L4D in Australia that worked absolutely fine, what reason did I have to read the small print this time. Do YOU *always* read *every* line of tiny print on the box before you buy a product? I doubt it.

@Pvt_r3d - because in Singapore L4D2 comes in a stupid A3-size cardboard envelope and not a regular DVD case so I have nowhere to put it, like the original L4D.

Its not there fault you bought a game in another region, its like complaing you bought a pal game and it wont work in your ntsc console, then saying you want an ntsc copy.

Its not there fault you bought a game in another region, its like complaing you bought a pal game and it wont work in your ntsc console, then saying you want an ntsc copy.

warmaster670

That's the opposite of what is being argued here. The game itself works perfectly fine on a computer, but will not run (in this case) because the developer choose to remove his privileges for noticing the game was installed in a different region.

As far as WHY...edits. They want games and servers to run the same for each region's copy of the game. Because Germany wouldn't allow the North American version into their country, Valve saw fit to revise their game completely just for that region. Same with China and a few other countries.

Meaning you DON'T own L4D2, you own Chinese L4D2. So they used their power to shut you down for not playing with other Chinese. So if you want to throw a stink, raise it with the Chinese Censor Board.

[QUOTE="warmaster670"]

Its not there fault you bought a game in another region, its like complaing you bought a pal game and it wont work in your ntsc console, then saying you want an ntsc copy.

SirSpudly

That's the opposite of what is being argued here. The game itself works perfectly fine on a computer, but will not run (in this case) because the developer choose to remove his privileges for noticing the game was installed in a different region.

Its the same idea, region coding.

Oh yes, it did say on the box its for Hong Kong and Macau only - IN TINY PRINT ON THE BACK AT THE BOTTOM.oakeshott

I'm trying to make two points here. One relates to the special nature of the PC as a platform, the other relates to fair dealing in general.

The PC became great because you could install anything on it. That is, in turn, what helped make PC gaming great. By introducing region coding which has historically been part of the rather different world of consumer electronics, Valve/Steam are turning their backs on the platform that built them. I find that sad and a little hypocritical.

HOWEVER, I'm not questioning, ultimately, that as a business Valve/Steam have the right to introduce region coding if they so choose, whether to protect their pricing structure or because of censorship issues or both. Then, the choice lies with the consumer. Fine. What I DO question is HOW they have gone about this.

Valve/Steam ought, in my opinion, to do much more than put a warning in tiny print on the bottom of the box at the back, especially given that if you buy PC software there has never been ANY REASON TO EXPECT IT WONT WORK ON A PC WITH ADEQUATE HARDWARE.I always check to see if an x360 game is NTSC or PAL, for instance, or what region a DVD movie will play in, but with the PC, there has never been any need. I bought L4D in Australia, it worked fine in Singapore, what reason did I have to think if I bought L4D2 in HK it wouldn't work fine in Singapore as well?

Region coding has NEVER been an issue in PC gaming in the 10+ years I've been involved in it. If you're going to change the understood terms of the arrangement, you have to do a lot better than this. At the very least, I feel entitled to a key that will let me play the game in Singapore, and they just stonewalled me.

Contrast this with the attitude of Starbreeze; when I found out recently that Chronicles of Riddick: AODA wouldn't run on Vista64, they just send me a signed copy of the PS3 game signed by the dev team, gratis. Which kind of company would you rather deal with?

i think this is because of piracy. plain and simple. always comes down to money, and its always convenient for for the right parties at the right time that keep it flowing the already established way. drm + steam is whats causing these problems imo. problems didnt exist before because drm didnt have everyone by the balls. it is a scourge that should be avoided like the plague. but its already got its foot in the door. there aint no going back. creates an unfortunate advantage for console versions.

all i know is while the consumer plays the foreign market its less and less ok. while region restriction allows for the maximization of profits from individual regions. (adversley allowing to effectively play one market against another using the same product. by definition thats conflict of interest and ppl do go to jail for that. intel comes to mind. the crazy amount of commercials youve seen recently is due to them doing this in asia). sony beat the rap with region free. if a small business or average person does it (import) they are automatically suspect. more and more. lowly ppl are kept from making/saving money doing this, some labled as felons. my question is how many are legit but persecuted with the accusation. but its everyday business for those that currently reign supreme. armies of lawyers ;)

There are places in this world where games are really cheap. Alot cheaper than in US or Europe. If there was no region coding everyone would import or even worse buy shady activation/cd keys without the physical game for next to nothing. Tell me why do you think Valve does not have the right to make money on their work?

There are places in this world where games are really cheap. Alot cheaper than in US or Europe. If there was no region coding everyone would import or even worse buy shady activation/cd keys without the physical game for next to nothing. Tell me why do you think Valve does not have the right to make money on their work?

rzepak

the games are not cheap. its the currency that percieved value is lost. a consumer has a right to take their money and use it whichever way one chooses. im a billionaire. i have an african denomination that says so. but in america its about $8. it only counts if im in that country. to put it another way one could fly to columbia and purchase a mitsubishi evo for $13,000 drive it back here. spend a little to reclassiffy/eco stuff, to turn around and have a $35,000+ vehicle. and some people think they are smart for going the next state over for a better tax rate.

I think Steam copy protection is a pain in the ass only for legitimate customers, because just about EVERY

game they have is available in pirated form and guess what?

Works FLAWLESSLY, without the need to obtain security code clearances and what have you...

They should abandond such SILLY copy protection methods, when they obiouvsly don't work, IMHO!

Not that I'm endorsing piracy, but the situation is just like this: pirates have no problem whatsoever

and legit gamers have to deal with creating a Steam account, register the game, having the Steam platform

acting as spyware, and so on... PLUS region lockout?!?

People who pay solid cash to play a game have to be treated with a little more respect IMHO...

I can't believe Steam to be as succesful as it is, but as of now people have been sufficently brainwashed by

Microsoft/Apple-like monopolies who deny you the right to use your computer the way you see fit, so

can't say I'm surprised...It's really sad, though....

Microsoft/Apple-like monopolies who deny you the right to use your computer the way you see fit, so

can't say I'm surprised...It's really sad, though....djcalotta

EXACTLY. its like dlc on the disk i pay for. but intentionally not released till a certain date when a code unlocks the data on the disc you already purchased. and im sure somewhere in the t.o.a. it says to punish those that access this data that they already posses. its a vicious circle.

Christ, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong, why don't you try shopping in that games shop just down the road?

@ Evil_Saluki: I don't really understand the point of that remark. I live in Singapore because I work there? And because I'm 39 and gainfully employed I'm able to afford to take my family on holiday once a year. It just so happens that these two trips have coincided with the release of the L4D games.

@ rezpak: of course I don't question Steam's right to make money: I BOUGHT THE GAME. What I'm asking for is some fair dealing with regard to the purchase. I'm saying (i) They made the T&Cs about as unnoticeable as it was possible to do while still actually having them on the box and (ii) There was no reason for me to expect them to be there in the first place as these kinds of T&Cs have never been part of the PC gaming scene. Given these two facts, I think they ought to have offered me an alternative key for my region after I presented proof of purchase. Instead, I get a lot of corporate stonewalling which I think is disgraceful. Piracy is indeed an issue in PC gaming and anyone prepared to shell out hard cash should be treated with a lot more respect.

The game is in fact cheaper in HK than Singapore, but only a little. And in any case, I didn't buy it because it was cheaper, I bought it because in Singapore it comes in a stupid non-standard A3 cardboard envelope rather than a DVD case. This was something else Steam just ignored when I raised it with them. I'm not a game retailer looking to buy hundred of copies in HK and profit on the price difference by re-selling them in Singapore, I'm an individual consumer who wanted to buy the product in a *standard* format which should have been available in his own territory but wasn't, hence the resulting mess. Which piece of market research suggested to these people that consumers in Singapore like their games to come in giant cardboard envelopes, for heaven's sakes?

I feel for your TC, these people are being inconsiderate. There is no reason the software should not work. JigglyWiggly_

What Steam is doing is the equivalent of regional locked consoles. So you may as well call Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony for being incosiderate for not letting you play PAL games on a US system.

@Vesica - and do you really think it's fair play to put those vital restrictions where they are least likely to be seen? If you're going to impose those sort of conditions, they need to be front and centre, not in the proverbial basement with no lightbulb, broken stairs and a sign saying 'beware of the leopard' on the door. Moreover, given I bought a copy of the original L4D in Australia that worked absolutely fine, what reason did I have to read the small print this time. Do YOU *always* read *every* line of tiny print on the box before you buy a product? I doubt it.

oakeshott

Well it is fair play, you don't own a game you own the license to use it on terms and conditions. And since you did violate the terms and conditions you agree on by buying the license to the software they have every legal right to terminate your license.

@Vesica 1: The NTSC/PAL distinction is to do with fps on TV screens, as I understand it; a game designed for one system has to run at a certain speed or it won't display correctly. There's no such limitation at work here, and in fact if I buy a game for my PS3 or my x360 my understanding is that it will work anywhere so long as my TV set supports it. This is actually much worse than Sony or Microsoft in this respect.

@Vesica 2: You are confusing the principle with the practice. I don't question, in principle, Steam's right to impose these T&Cs, and I've said this repeatedly. My obejction concerns *how* they've done it. It simply isn't realistic - and I'd be very surprised if you could honestly say you did it yourself - to expect people to read the tiny print on the back at the bottom. This is especially true when it relates to something as centrally important as whether or not the game will or will not work in another region.That's crucial - it shouldn't be stuck away where no-one is going to look at it. That positively invites misunderstandings like this one.

So, my argument is that if the game is just not going to work elsewhere, you have to do a better job than that of letting people know, especially when this is a game-changing (if you'll pardon the metaphor) alteration to how PC software has ALWAYS worked. I repeat - I bought L4D in Australia last year, it worked fine in Singapore. Why shouldn't L4D2 work fine in Singapore when I buy it in HK this year? I don't think there's a good answer to that question.

Let's try an analogy. Let's say the government decides to put up your taxes but announces the increase at the end of a measure to do with traffic regulation and then insists you have to pay anyway because it was there in black and white for you to read and it's not their fault if you can't be bothered to pay attention. Would you feel you'd been fairly treated? Because in my opinion that's the kind of thing that's gone on here.

I can't understand why people are cool with the fact a corporation like Steam has more rights than his customers.

As I said, the generalized brainwashing seems to have paid off well...

[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"]I feel for your TC, these people are being inconsiderate. There is no reason the software should not work. Vesica_Prime

What Steam is doing is the equivalent of regional locked consoles. So you may as well call Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony for being incosiderate for not letting you play PAL games on a US system.