Reasons like this make me NOT want to play Dark Souls II...

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That's right!

Less fun, a whole lot more frustration! No thanks, but I'll pass. Videogames are meant to be challenging, I get it, but they aren't supposed to be taking away the fun either in it, which is exactly what they are accomplishing here.

Every time I was invaded in Dark Souls, it was fun.

One time in particular, I was on my way to a boss, had to cross a huge field to get to the fog door, and the invasion message popped up about halfway through the field. I just started running, panning the camera around to see where he was, and I caught sight of him to my right. I sprinted straight towards the door, which was down a winding ledge and across a narrow bridge. We got to the ledge at about the same time, and I just vaulted off of it, landed at the foot of the bridge, and made it to the door just before he reached me.

The great thing about Dark Souls is that even if you die, you don't really lose anything unless you screw up twice in a row. Facing invaders -- or running from them -- is awesome if you embrace it for what it is rather instead of getting frustrated. It's not like it happens constantly.

@Metamania: Are you seriously gonna drop DSII because of that ?

That just makes it so much more interesting.

Can’t wait for DSII !!!!!!

I get what you mean, and I also think that dropping one of the cornerstones of the concept of undead/whatever the opposite is more of a mechanics choice than story one. If you know what I'm getting at there.

But if they can make flawless matchmaking with this (which is unlikely) it would turn into one of the best parts of the game. But as I said, I doubt that.

With Demon's Souls I played offline because I have not died once past the tutorial boss. I didn't want to be invaded by someone 10x more powerful than me just to have my health halved and stats decreased until I either helped someone, killed someone or found/bought a Stone of Ethmral Eyes.

Dark Souls on the other hand, I didn't feel any real punishment from dying. Never really needed humanity and never summoned anyone. In fact, being hollow made the game more enjoyable because I couldn't be invaded.

But now with Dark Souls 2 it doesn't even matter anymore it seems. I thought DS was, for most "If I go human I can get help at the risk of being invaded". Now that's been thrown out the window. And people like ACP_45 obviously don't care for other people's/fans negative thoughts on this that would like to be able to use other player's hints and tips without some d*cks contently invading.

So let me get this straight this 2nd rate developer wants to force you to endure 12year old kids invading your game and possibly griefing the shit out of you?

Well i agree with you another reason in the many to drop Dark Souls.

No, that's part of the fun, it's what makes the game unique. The possibility of being invaded at any one time ramps up the tension considerably. Also note that it isn't entirely brutal as it sounds, you're chances of getting invaded are at its highest when you have other players summoned to your world, so 80% of the time you get invaded you'll likely have 2 other players with you taking them down.

I think you've made similar statement before regarding Dark Souls/Demons Souls and I think you just don't "get" the games and they aren't for you.

I won't lie to you, I don't like the change. The overwhelming majority of invaders are are a-holes, as are most online players in a PvP environment (at least from my experience). It seems a bit too far in my eyes, I liked being able to stay Hollow and avoid all the one-shotting and hate mail, while trying to make progress.

For me, it sucks, but it's not enough to deter me from playing the game. Much as I hate the behavior of online invaders, I still get an immense satisfaction out of the gameplay and co-op. So, if I find the constant invasions too oppressive, I'll most likely play offline for the first 1 or 2 playthroughs to become familiar w/the game, and then I'll return to playing with a connection enabled.

I agree, this sounds very troubling to me. I like invading or being invaded but kind of on my own terms by choosing to become human. The developer may say that they have all these checks and balances in place but from my experience people will still find ways to grief others regardless. I'd be lying if I said that this news didn't worry me at all.

Not sure who the last comment was directed to, but if it was me.

You are correct forced multiplayer is not my thing and never will be , and it doesn't matter if its Dark Souls or any other AAA game. I just cant stand multiplayer, when i play i do it to relax and enjoy myself, not to play with others and particular not kids who have the brain and common sense of a chicken. And have been raised by abe's.

It was aimed at TC.

The Souls games aren't the type of games where you kick back and relax, they're about about skill, patience, and determination. Death is a constant in these games and you learn from your mistakes in order to progress. Other players invading you are honestly the least of your troubles when it comes to the Souls games.

I'm a fan of Demon's and Dark Souls, just don't listen to him. The fact being invaded is no longer optional isn't a great thing. The fact with Demon's and Dark you needed to be human to be invaded was fine. I'll just be hollow. But people like him are rejoicing the fact it's now forced and telling others if they don't like it, go offline. Which means people like me and many others won't be able to read messages and view other player's blood stains.

The fact these people are embracing forced multiplayer boggles the mind. An option suits both parties and now they're favoring one.

Arguments such as "Now we don't know when we'll be invaded making it so much more interesting" annoys me so much. Want that feeling? Be a human for god's sake. Don't spoil someone else's fun.

I'm very much also a fan, and I agree. . Dark Souls is my favorite title of the past generation. The game is supposed to be oppressive, brutal. I don't mark the game down at all for being so. But constant invasion creates the problem of really unbalanced difficulty that isn't defined by the game itself, in my opinion.

See, I have no problem with getting flattened by Smough's hammer. That's fine. He'll get his just desserts in a minute, now that I know his move pattern. Now, getting invaded by some d*ckbag who min-maxed a character specifically for ruining my experience? That I have a problem with. There are too many ways for invaders to just sap the enjoyment out of the experience. Most of these players are total jerks, and that's not even beginning to mention all those hackers out there.

Sure, there's a covenant to protect you. That's great, assuming that 1. The network stability is such that these covenant interactions are excellent and balanced, and 2. The people that have been summoned actually give a damn to help you. They could stare off into space and leave you on your own at any time.

I don't like the decision, but it won't stop me from playing, since I love the gameplay and co-op so much. In my view, I would have liked to remain undisturbed while Hollow.

Isn't the point of invading someone else's game to kill them? Or is there some other way of griefing that you guys are talking about?

The way I see it, a human in my world is another enemy to get past. I've never had an invader try to help me, but I don't expect them to. They wanted to become an enemy in my world, and that's fine with me. I'll have fun with that.

A lot of people's view on this is "Have fun my way or have no fun at all". It seems you can have fun wrong. Apparently skipping PvP makes the game too easy and you shouldn't do it but summoning someone to help you is too easy and you shouldn't do it.

As much as I love the Souls series I just don't know what to think of the community.

I think everyone's just concerned about being destroyed by higher-level players while hanging around low-level zones. Happens a lot in Dark Souls these days.

But really -- I don't see the issue. The developers have clearly been stating time and again that they're working on ways to avoid being invaded, to grant you help while being invaded (there's a specific covenant that, so long as you're in it, will automatically summon another player to your side the second an invader arrives), and plenty of ways to punish the invaders themselves. To me, that sounds like they're simply trying to make the multiplayer a more pronounced element of the game while also balancing it considerably. If it were simply a case of, "Yeah, we're making invasions more common and there's nothing you can do it about it," then sure -- that would kinda suck. But that would also be ridiculous. Dark Souls may be hard, but it's not masochistic. Give the developers some credit, guys. They're smart people.

I can already imagine Dark Souls 3: "Players can invade and ruin your game even when your console is off"

Anyway, just turn invasions off or play offline.

There's been rumors that Demon's Souls 2 may be next for PS4. Just rumors though

It's ok TC, it just wasn't meant for you.

I don't play online.

Pretty sure I read somewhere that they'll have AI bots perform invasions while offline still (along with the usual AI summons). Though at least then they shouldn't be much of a hassle since I would imagine they'd scale with your level.

I forget some people out right refuse to disconnect the console from the wi-fi.

Playing offline is a flawed solution as it removes many beneficial and good online features that the games are known for.

Good lord. What's next? Will FROM Software triangulate players' homes and pay people to invade their workplaces, knocking stuff off their desks and leaving porn websites open on their computers when they go to the bathroom? How callous can a studio get? XD

I don't understand the appeal of those games at all. But I guess they're simply not aimed at me. Hopefully those that are excited for it get the game they want.

Somethings off, if the game is not trial and error then whats causing all the deaths ? I mean if you can learn without dying, wouldn't you die less, not more.

@Doom_HellKnight: I didn't either until I played Dark Souls.

@Lulu_Lulu: The goal of always being invaded is to make the game that much more intense and keep the player on their toes.

@ turtlethetaffer

Not talking about Invasion. I mean the entire game in general. What exactly is killing people off in Dark Souls ?

Impatience.

@Lulu_Lulu: Impatience, no knowledge, human error. On my third playthrough and I've died twice. First time I played through the game? I was dying left and right. It's not trial and error in the sense that once you learn how the game works, you can run through it with little trouble. It IS trial and error for someone who's a new player, but after a while you learn the ins and outs of the world and combat.

whaa.. lol you do realize that if you disconnect your internet from your console other players can't invade you, right? i personally never play this or any other game online so i don't have these problems, you guys nowadays act like its a carnal sin to play video games offline, wtf is wrong with you? just remove your net cable = problem solved. -_-

@ turtlethetaffer

The no knowledge Sounds unfair.

@ c_rakestraw

I'm very impatient but I make up for it by polishing my reflexes, however for that to work, theres gotta some type of warning before I got killed. And I can't be weighed down by my character. Theres nothing more annoying than seeing death coming but having no way to dodge it.

I look at MMOs. Some people like PvP and some don't. So you have PvP servers and PvE servers. Some people like PvP some of the time, but when questing would rather not have some ass-clown sneak up and stab them in the back while they're fighting a boss, so there are PvP flags that can be turned on and off for people who like PvP but aren't always in the mood for it.

I don't want to hear about devs working on ways to help prevent players who don't want to PvP from having to PvP. It's simple: option screen-> invasions -> off. Anything more complex than that is asinine.

The point is choice. Dark Souls has choice and it's sounding like Dark Souls 2 doesn't. When you deny choice, you're not encouraging players to play the game in the way you want them to, you're encouraging them to play something else. You can't force PvP. It just causes people to quit. The devs are trying to boost their multiplayer population. Fine. But this isn't the way.

@Lulu_Lulu: People who say that the game isn't trial and error are wrong; it is during your first play through. Granted, you get better the more you go on and die less and less as you come to expect the challenge, but there is trial and error involved.

By no knowledge, I mean that, in the beginning, you have no idea what to expect in any of the areas; each one has a different theme and set of enemies. You die a few times, and you learn the area. By the end, you won't die very often because even though you don't know EXACTLY what to expect, you still expect some tough things.

The game IS fair. It rewards you by honestly being pretty easy when you learn the ins and outs of combat and areas.

There we go.

@ turtlethetaffer

the Conditions for dying ( repeating parts you've already cleared, mostly) and consquences for dying again (losing your hard earned resources) are way too steep considering how the deaths actually happen.

Its encouraging and discouraging death all at the same. Kinda counter intuitive don't you think ?

@Lulu_Lulu: No. The fact that you lose Souls when you die (and permanently when you die twice without recovery) forces careful play. It's not a game you jsut jump into and rush around. It requries and demands care and caution in order to make any progress.

Maybe you should play the game and see. Trust me, before I played Dark Souls, I thought it would be pointlessly and stupidly difficult, but that's not the case.

Exactly. What if I am knee-deep into a fortress, about to take a boss on my own, when some punk-ass bitch decides to invade my world, stab me, and lose all that time? I won't have that wasted on my dime.

It's all about choice and how I want to play it. If the dev takes away that choice, how am I supposed to have fun in the game at all?

@ turtlethetaffer

I wanted to a while back, but I'm dropping out of this gaming circle in favour of something more Nintendo-esque.

Besides, I know me, I'l just cheat anyway. Thats my thing. Also some peoples satisfaction is directly proportional to the difficulty of the challenge they over come, especially if its if they're underdogs. But me I only feel relief, not satisfaction, . Maybe Adam will get it and I'l give it a shot on his PC.

@Lulu_Lulu: I usually don't enjoy overly difficult games, and I've played Dark Souls twice.

Also who the hell is Adam?

@ turtlethetaffer

Boyfriend ! :p I leach off of him.

@Lulu_Lulu: They always telegraph traps before they arrive, usually in extremely obvious ways. Whether or not you take notice of them depends on how much you're paying attention.

You can't be invaded during boss fights, so that wouldn't ever be a concern. It's not like invaders spawn right in front of you every time (usually they're always quite a ways off), not to mention that there no doubt will be some areas where invasions are turned off. Besides, as I stated before, there are plenty of ways to subvert it. Been hearing talk of improving the game's matchmaking systems as well, so hopefully the game will be better about matching up players who are closely leveled to one another, thus removing the fear of being decimated by some clearly over-leveled foe.

Doesn't have to be a boss fight. Normal mobs can do damage, too, and not every invader is going to help you clear them before he starts fighting you. Some will wait until you're in the fight and pounce. And, you know, that's fair game if you have made the choice to participate in PvP. You see it in MMOs all the time, which is why you don't want to be running around solo with your PvP flag up. But the point is, in those games you have the choice.

Why make excuses for them? Why can't it just be a matter of choice as it was in the last Dark Souls? It's not like the solution is complex. Pvp to off. Every online game that allows PvP in non-dedicated environments has it. You don't need some magical doo-dad.

All I'm saying is I don't put cutscenes in your multiplayer so stop putting 12 year olds in my single player.

@ c_rakestraw

In that case, is it it like other action games where dodging is an invincible action meaning I don't actually have to get out of the way (like Bayonetta, You can dodge into/through an attack) or does the direction actually matter ? Do they telegraph direction aswell ?

thats YOUR opinion m8, doesn't make it set in stone.. there are some of us who absolutely hate online mp and quite frankly wish it was never invented, with that said the whole reason we play offline is to GET AWAY from the annoying online features, why? cause some of us just want to sit down and play the fvkin game without some snot nose spoiled kid console trolling every 5 minutes who's at level a thousand cause he/she has no life and lives on the game 24/7.