Sega Saturn Surprise Launch stupidest gaming blunder in history.

In 1995 Sega decided to do the STUPIDEST mistake they ever did in history:THE SURPRISE SATURN LAUNCH.

The original plan was to release the Saturn in 1996.But hoping to get a head start on Sony,Sega decided to do a Surprise Saturn Launch.

This stupid action PISSED off so many retailers such as KB Toys that they refused to sell the Sega Saturn.Additionally it caught Sega fans off guard who were still saving money to buy this system.So many of us Sega fans were incredibly angry(including me) because we were trying to save money so we could afford the Saturn's expensive price($399) to buy the system by its initial launch in 1996.SEGA ALREADY LOST CUSTOMERS THE FIRST DAY DUE to making retails so angry they refused to carry it and by not allowing us Sega fans time to save money to buy the system.

When it was first launch,the Saturn had almost no games available.All the games that were available were at best mediocre(which included a not so good port of Virtua Fighter).Literally there was no reason to buy a Saturn if you were looking for good games.

Additionally developers were caught off guard and became so irritated with the surprise launch that alot of them(including big companies such as Namco) refused to develop games for the Saturn any where in the future(PRETTY MUCH Almost every developer abandoned the Saturn by 1996).

Sony took advantage of the Sega Surprise launch to cleverly make huge hype and brilliant marketing for the PS1.Despite being released a year earliermthe Saturn was easily getting outsold by the PS1.

MAN THIS MISTAKE made no hope for the Saturn to ever beat the playstation.

WTF!!!WHAT THE HELL WAS SEGA THINKING?WHY THE HELL DID THEY THINK Doing a Surprise launch would allow them to beat Sony?THIS IS SO **** STUPID!

Oh BTW the Saturn became a huge failure and this decision is probably the main reason why.The Saturn's failure cost Sega over 250 million $and it also led to companies that were once loyal to Sega such as EA to abandon Sega and chose Sony Playstation brand instead as main systems they will develop and/or publish on.The debt Sega has accumulated for the Saturn'd failure along with the Saturn turning off once loyal companies and fans and making them go for the playstation is one one of if not the main reason why the Dreamcast was a failure.

Any of you agree that Sega Saturn Surprise Launch stupidest gaming blunder in history?MAN SEGA IS MORONIC.

You're 14 years late, nobody cares now.

The Saturn launched in November 1994 in Japan, I don't see how could the western divisions delay the overseas launch a whole year.

And EA did released games for the Saturn actually, and they even published various games in Japan for other companies, like Soukyugurentai.

It was the decision to discontinue the Saturn in 1998 that annoyed third parties.

Oh and BTW, the Saturn was actually the SEGA console with the largest gaming library and highest amount of third party support.

You're 14 years late, nobody cares now.

The Saturn launched in November 1994 in Japan, I don't see how could the western divisions delay the overseas launch a whole year.

And EA did released games for the Saturn actually, and they even published various games in Japan for other companies, like Soukyugurentai.

It was the decision to discontinue the Saturn in 1998 that annoyed third parties.

Oh and BTW, the Saturn was actually the SEGA console with the largest gaming library and highest amount of third party support.

gamers dont care unless its the companies, games, and graphics

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

You're 14 years late, nobody cares now.

The Saturn launched in November 1994 in Japan, I don't see how could the western divisions delay the overseas launch a whole year.

And EA did released games for the Saturn actually, and they even published various games in Japan for other companies, like Soukyugurentai.

It was the decision to discontinue the Saturn in 1998 that annoyed third parties.

Oh and BTW, the Saturn was actually the SEGA console with the largest gaming library and highest amount of third party support.

Arach666

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

You're 14 years late, nobody cares now.

The Saturn launched in November 1994 in Japan, I don't see how could the western divisions delay the overseas launch a whole year.

And EA did released games for the Saturn actually, and they even published various games in Japan for other companies, like Soukyugurentai.

It was the decision to discontinue the Saturn in 1998 that annoyed third parties.

Oh and BTW, the Saturn was actually the SEGA console with the largest gaming library and highest amount of third party support.

Arach666

You can check the total game list of the Mega Drive and Saturn over at GameFaqs if you want.

Check how many games the big Japanese companies like Konami, Capcom, Atlus etc. released for the system, there's no comparison really, even Enix released a game on the Saturn, their only game on a SEGA system if I'm not mistaken.

All that Capcom released on the MD for example was the Street Fighter games, the rest of Capcom games on the MD were reprogrmmed and published by SEGA themselves.

I think Capcom is the only big Japanese company that released more games on the Dreamcast than on the Saturn, although if they did it wasn't by much. But otherwise all of the other game companies released more games on the Saturn than in any other SEGA system.

Sega's failures were the result of a lot more than just a surprise launch. Lets not forget the release and quick abandonment of the 32X when consumers knew the Saturn was on its way. The Saturn never stood a chance against the Playstation. Sony simply created a system that was more attractive to third parties and easier to develop for. They had a more attractive game library, launched at a lower price, and their advertising was perfect. Also, the system had a name attached (Sony) that was far more recognizable to the mainstream audience than Sega ever was.

They did a lot right with the Dreamcast, and didn't repeat some of their past blunders. But they launched too early. Consumers weren't ready for a new generation of consoles in 1999. And when they were ready, they got the PS2 instead because it had a DVD player built in while the Dreamcast didn't.

[QUOTE="Arach666"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"] Yes,but if you take imports out of the picture,it wouldn´t be half as big,now wouldn´t it?[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

[QUOTE="Arach666"][QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

You're 14 years late, nobody cares now.

The Saturn launched in November 1994 in Japan, I don't see how could the western divisions delay the overseas launch a whole year.

And EA did released games for the Saturn actually, and they even published various games in Japan for other companies, like Soukyugurentai.

It was the decision to discontinue the Saturn in 1998 that annoyed third parties.

Oh and BTW, the Saturn was actually the SEGA console with the largest gaming library and highest amount of third party support.

You can check the total game list of the Mega Drive and Saturn over at GameFaqs if you want.

Check how many games the big Japanese companies like Konami, Capcom, Atlus etc. released for the system, there's no comparison really, even Enix released a game on the Saturn, their only game on a SEGA system if I'm not mistaken.

All that Capcom released on the MD for example was the Street Fighter games, the rest of Capcom games on the MD were reprogrmmed and published by SEGA themselves.

I think Capcom is the only big Japanese company that released more games on the Dreamcast than on the Saturn, although if they did it wasn't by much. But otherwise all of the other game companies released more games on the Saturn than in any other SEGA system.

Sega's failures were the result of a lot more than just a surprise launch. Lets not forget the release and quick abandonment of the 32X when consumers knew the Saturn was on its way. The Saturn never stood a chance against the Playstation. Sony simply created a system that was more attractive to third parties and easier to develop for. They had a more attractive game library, launched at a lower price, and their advertising was perfect. Also, the system had a name attached (Sony) that was far more recognizable to the mainstream audience than Sega ever was.

They did a lot right with the Dreamcast, and didn't repeat some of their past blunders. But they launched too early. Consumers weren't ready for a new generation of consoles in 1999. And when they were ready, they got the PS2 instead because it had a DVD player built in while the Dreamcast didn't.

Rocky32189

Only people in game forums and journalists liked the Dreamcast on its time, or so they say now anyway. If half the people that praise the Dreamcast now actually had bought a Dreamcast and some games back then, then the system wouldn't had failed as much as it did. Most of the DC units sold were sold at bargain clearance prices that didn't profited the Company. The software sales also were worst than during the Master System era.

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"]

Sega's failures were the result of a lot more than just a surprise launch. Lets not forget the release and quick abandonment of the 32X when consumers knew the Saturn was on its way. The Saturn never stood a chance against the Playstation. Sony simply created a system that was more attractive to third parties and easier to develop for. They had a more attractive game library, launched at a lower price, and their advertising was perfect. Also, the system had a name attached (Sony) that was far more recognizable to the mainstream audience than Sega ever was.

They did a lot right with the Dreamcast, and didn't repeat some of their past blunders. But they launched too early. Consumers weren't ready for a new generation of consoles in 1999. And when they were ready, they got the PS2 instead because it had a DVD player built in while the Dreamcast didn't.

Panzer_Zwei

Only people in game forums and journalists liked the Dreamcast on its time, or so they say now anyway. If half the people that praise the Dreamcast now actually had bought a Dreamcast and some games back then, then the system wouldn't had failed as much as it did. Most of the DC units sold were sold at bargain clearance prices that didn't profited the Company. The software sales also were worst than during the Master System era.

Sega's biggest mistake was always pushing hardware all the time and selling add-ons at the price of a full new system. It was Sega CD, then 32X, then Saturn. In the span of 3 years they released 3 new pieces of hardware. Sega was always expensive. The game gear cost as much as a regular system and ate up batteries quick. The Dreamcast failed because everyone was more psyched about the PS2. The PS2 promised to deliver more and did just that. Back in the Saturn years, the different studios of Sega competed with one another and so development suffered because of it. No one was going to pay $400 for a system with no games or games that had to be rereleased because of bugs. The Dreamcast also had problems with shipment of games and accidentally sending Japanese games to America. Sega was so busy trying to rush things ahead of the game that the quality of their products suffered.

While I may be dating myself,

I bought a Sega Saturn within a month of North American launch, and while the "surprise" launch certainly wasn't the brightest idea it wasn't the reason the console failed.

From basically 1993 to 1995 Sega alienated its fanbase.

The concept of dropping 300 bucks on a Sega CD in early 1993 wasn't too bad,(but still pricing consider the SNES was 199.99 and the Atari Jaguar which was a 64 bit system was selling for 249.99) because it extended the life of your Genesis (or Mega Drive if you will) the problem then became if you wanted to save any signifigant amount of data the internal memory was way to low, so you dropped another 50 bucks on the Sega CD memory cart, then a year and a bit passes and Sega expects us to drop another 150 on a 32x Add on, which was hardly supported and the support it did have was nothing short of rushed and dicey at best.

Then rather then launcing the Neptune which would have at least made accessing the Sega CD & 32X more accessable at a 200 dollar pricepoint and perhaps lending some support to the 32x, they turfed it a year later, cut off support left all of us who dropped money on the CD & 32x hanging,

And then said, "hey, sorry about stiffing you with that 500 bucks on hardware that is one and two and a half years respectively, but come on over and drop ANOTHER 400 bucks on a Sega Saturn which has the same limited memory issue that the Sega CD had"

You had Nintendo folks who dropped 200 bucks on an SNES get support from 1991 - 1997, and the Sega folks from 1993 - 1995 were basically asked to drop 900 bucks on two add ons and a new console?

While I certainly drank the kool-aide, there were a lot of angry Sega fans who walked away from the brand

The Saturn was a great console if you liked Sega's arcade lineup. I was actually very happy when they released it 3 months (not a year!) earlier. I wasn't too impressed with the price, but loved getting Virtua Fighter with it. Also bought Daytona and I believe Clockwork Knight. I also bought the Dreamcast on launch and still have it hooked up to my TV and still play it from time to time. The Dreamcast was a better console than the PS2 for the first year or two of the PS2 life. All of this is my opinion of course.

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"]

Sega's failures were the result of a lot more than just a surprise launch. Lets not forget the release and quick abandonment of the 32X when consumers knew the Saturn was on its way. The Saturn never stood a chance against the Playstation. Sony simply created a system that was more attractive to third parties and easier to develop for. They had a more attractive game library, launched at a lower price, and their advertising was perfect. Also, the system had a name attached (Sony) that was far more recognizable to the mainstream audience than Sega ever was.

They did a lot right with the Dreamcast, and didn't repeat some of their past blunders. But they launched too early. Consumers weren't ready for a new generation of consoles in 1999. And when they were ready, they got the PS2 instead because it had a DVD player built in while the Dreamcast didn't.

Panzer_Zwei

Only people in game forums and journalists liked the Dreamcast on its time, or so they say now anyway. If half the people that praise the Dreamcast now actually had bought a Dreamcast and some games back then, then the system wouldn't had failed as much as it did. Most of the DC units sold were sold at bargain clearance prices that didn't profited the Company. The software sales also were worst than during the Master System era.

The Saturn was a great console if you liked Sega's arcade lineup. I was actually very happy when they released it 3 months (not a year!) earlier. I wasn't too impressed with the price, but loved getting Virtua Fighter with it. Also bought Daytona and I believe Clockwork Knight. I also bought the Dreamcast on launch and still have it hooked up to my TV and still play it from time to time. The Dreamcast was a better console than the PS2 for the first year or two of the PS2 life. All of this is my opinion of course.

RickLemieux

You'd might as well upgrade that to "Sega Saturn, stupidest gaming blunder in history" that console lost Sega hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars

Also, Saturn had nowhere near as many games on it as Mega Drive, it was something like 500 odd Saturn games versus 1000 odd Mega Drive games, and Konami hardly supported Saturn at all, they just threw out a rushed port of Symphony of the Night and re-releases of their old arcade games whilst releasing a bunch of original exclusives on Mega Drive such as the Rocket Knight games, Hard Corps, Bloodlines, Buster's Hidden Treasure, and Hyperstone Heist (along with the usual rushed ports like Sunset Riders and Zombies Ate My Neighbours)

The only reason the Dreamcast failed was because Sega were in ridiculously huge amounts of debt caused by 32X and Saturn before it even came out, if they'd been a normal, healthy company they could've afforded a proper,sustained advertising capaign, they could've swallowed the hardware losses for long enough until the costs went down, they could have out lasted the blind PS2 hype which was already receding by 2002 as thatwas the year when many people (myself included) realised that the Dreamcast was a great console that could easily compete (too late)

GameFaqs has 1127 Saturn games on their database against 976 Mega Drive games. So the Saturn had a bigger and more diverse gaming library than the Mega Drive period, in spite that the Mega Drive was supported for over 2 years more than the Saturn.

However, there's an awful lot of double and sometimes triple listed Mega Drive games on the list, because of title differences between regions. This is not so bad with the Saturn since the majority of games were only released in Japan or didn't had their title changed. So in reality the difference in actual different games is way more drastic.

Unfortunately the Mega Drive was never successful in Japan, and that pretty much sealed its fate with the Japanese third parties which hardly supported the system at all.

GameFaqs has 1127 Saturn games on their database against 976 Mega Drive games. So the Saturn had a bigger and more diverse gaming library than the Mega Drive period, in spite that the Mega Drive was supported for over 2 years more than the Saturn.

However, there's an awful lot of double and sometimes triple listed Mega Drive games on the list, because of title differences between regions. This is not so bad with the Saturn since the majority of games were only released in Japan or didn't had their title changed. So in reality the difference in actual different games is way more drastic.

Unfortunately the Mega Drive was never successful in Japan, and that pretty much sealed its fate with the Japanese third parties which hardly supported the system at all.Panzer_Zwei

Well, at the moment the very concise and virtually complete and well tended list of Mega Drive games on the Sega-16 site lists 937 separate games, I don't know about Gamefaq's Saturn list, but it sounds as though its listing everything ever released on the system (such as demos and free picture CDs, of which there were many) and not specifically games.

The Mega Drive had a hell of a lot of software from Europe and America whilst the Saturn had very little, where Japan is concerned as I said many of the biggest companies (the ones who knew they had a worldwide presence and could export) made Mega Drive games specifically for the lucrative western market, Konami, Technosoft, Wolf Team, Treasure, Namco, and Toaplan all supported the Mega Drive with more games than the Saturn,

Capcom and Taito did make some Mega Drive games (Capcom made the Street Fighters, Wily Wars and Great Circus Mystery themselves, Taito made tons of stuff on MD such as Flintstones, New Zealand Story, Sagaia, Rainbow Islands, Growl) but yeah, those twoseemed to support Saturn more, as well as a lot of the smaller Japanese companies (the ones who previously didn't have the fame or money to export their games to the west during the MD era) all tended to support Saturn more too.

The Saturn has one of the least diverse gaming library's i've ever experienced, most of its best games are either fighting games or scrolling shmups.

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]GameFaqs has 1127 Saturn games on their database against 976 Mega Drive games. So the Saturn had a bigger and more diverse gaming library than the Mega Drive period, in spite that the Mega Drive was supported for over 2 years more than the Saturn.

However, there's an awful lot of double and sometimes triple listed Mega Drive games on the list, because of title differences between regions. This is not so bad with the Saturn since the majority of games were only released in Japan or didn't had their title changed. So in reality the difference in actual different games is way more drastic.

Unfortunately the Mega Drive was never successful in Japan, and that pretty much sealed its fate with the Japanese third parties which hardly supported the system at all.Domino_slayer

Well, at the moment the very concise and virtually complete and well tended list of Mega Drive games on the Sega-16 site lists 937 separate games, I don't know about Gamefaq's Saturn list, but it sounds as though its listing everything ever released on the system (such as demos and free picture CDs, of which there were many) and not specifically games.

The Mega Drive had a hell of a lot of software from Europe and America whilst the Saturn had very little, where Japan is concerned as I said many of the biggest companies (the ones who knew they had a worldwide presence and could export) made Mega Drive games specifically for the lucrative western market, Konami, Technosoft, Wolf Team, Treasure, Namco, and Toaplan all supported the Mega Drive with more games than the Saturn,

Capcom and Taito did make some Mega Drive games (Capcom made the Street Fighters, Wily Wars and Great Circus Mystery themselves, Taito made tons of stuff on MD such as Flintstones, New Zealand Story, Sagaia, Rainbow Islands, Growl) but yeah, those twoseemed to support Saturn more, as well as a lot of the smaller Japanese companies (the ones who previously didn't have the fame or money to export their games to the west during the MD era) all tended to support Saturn more too.

The Saturn has one of the least diverse gaming library's i've ever experienced, most of its best games are either fighting games or scrolling shmups.

Actually, The Saturn overwhelms every single gaming genre but sports and platform games. It's the MD who had very little besides action and sport games. You should of have actually checked how much games both consoles had in each genre before making such silly statement.

And yes, GameFaqs list everything, and that's why I find very unlikely the MD has 937 separate games, it's just not possible.

GameFaqs counts regional releases so that people can find the games as they know them in their region, so they double lists a lot of MDgames like:

EX-Ranza - Ranger X

Battle Mania - Trouble Shooter

Koutetsu Teikoku - Empire of Steel

Kyuukyoku Tiger - Twin Cobra

Senjou no Ookami II - Mercs

VV - Grind Stormer

And so on and on.

And with all the double and triple game listing, the total MD game releases accounts to 976.

And GameFaqs is better and more trustworthy than SEGA-16 could ever be.

And of course companies like Wolf Team, Technosoft and Toaplan (which many MD games were reprogrammed by SEGA or were PCE multi-plats) supported the MD more, since all of them went under before or during the Saturn days.

The Saturn got the new wave of developers like Eighting/Raizing which was formed off former Toaplan staff after the company's demise.

The Mega Drive also only got 422 Japanese games :

1988

4 Games

1989

21 Games

1990

60 Games

1991

86 Games

1992

76 Games

1993

81 Games

1994

70 Games

1995

23 Games

1996

1 Games

A great majority of those 422 games were released overseas. So it's laughable to think there's actually an extra 515 exclusiive Western games. Not a chance.

I don't know about the amount of games or the surprise launch, and frankly I don't care. Loved the Genesis, never went back to Sega. They make great games, but poor hardware. They belong as a third party.

Actually, The Saturn overwhelms every single gaming genre but sports and platform games. It's the MD who had very little besides action and sport games. You should of have actually checked how much games both consoles had in each genre before making such silly statement.Panzer_Zwei

LMAO

And yes, GameFaqs list everything, and that's why I find very unlikely the MD has 937 separate games, it's just not possible.

GameFaqs counts regional releases so that people can find the games as they know them in their region, so they double lists a lot of MDgames like:

EX-Ranza - Ranger X, Battle Mania - Trouble Shooter, Koutetsu Teikoku - Empire of Steel, Kyuukyoku Tiger - Twin Cobra, Senjou no Ookami II - Mercs, VV - Grind Stormer

And so on and on.

And with all the double and triple game listing, the total MD game releases accounts to 976.

And GameFaqs is better and more trustworthy than SEGA-16 could ever be.Panzer_Zwei

Funny how Sega-16's list doesn't double up even one of those games you listed then isn't it, this just pretty much shows just how bad those Gamefaq's lists can be. Also its pretty strange to me that you'd take the word of Gamefaq's over the biggest Mega Drive site on the net

But still you're free to go on Sega-16 and alert them of any mistakes in their database, they have a thread specifically for this which has been going for years

And of course companies like Wolf Team, Technosoft and Toaplan (which many MD games were reprogrammed by SEGA or were PCE multi-plats) supported the MD more, since all of them went under before or during the Saturn days. Panzer_Zwei

Apart from bits and pieces on Saturn, Technosoft were busy making tons of PS1 games during the Saturn days and weren't bought out until 2001

But these companies were the least important of the ones I mentioned, what about Konami, Namco and Treasure? Konami and Namco went off to Sony along with 90% of the other big Japanese developers (With Sony even taking most of the developers who had previously supported Nintendo), and Treasure started hedging their bets and supporting all three big machines.

At the end of the day it comes down to the same thing I said earlier with roles reversed, If you were a small Japanese company who couldn't afford to export then there was little difference in making games for either the PS1 or the Saturn as both had very equal market share in Japan until around 1997, if however you were a big company like Konami or Namco, developing for the PS1 was the obvious choice as this would give you access to all three major territories all of which the PS1 was hugely successful in, unlike the Saturn which was a dismal failure in both America and Europe.

I'm going to add something else that just occured to me, by the mid 90s scrolling shmups were very unpopular outside of Japan, so companies who specialised in these sorts of games would also have little reason to worry about what machines were popular outside of Japan as there'd be little point in exporting their games in the first place.

The Saturn got the new wave of developers like Eighting/Raizing which was formed off former Toaplan staff after the company's demise.Panzer_Zwei

Who made pretty much nothing but scrolling shmups, which brings us back to my previous statement that all the best Saturn games are either fighting games or scrolling shmups.

The Mega Drive also only got 422 Japanese games

A great majority of those 422 games were released overseas. So it's laughable to think there's actually an extra 515 exclusiive Western games. Not a chance.

Panzer_Zwei

Also, another thing to add, Japanese companies who were interested in making 3D games also cut the Saturn out of their equations as making a similar 3D game on Saturn could take twice as long as the same game on PS1 and unless you were ultra talented most often still looked worse.

LMAO

Domino_slayer

What a lame reply. The Saturn has more RPGs, more adventure games, more racing games, more puzzle games, more miscellaneous games etc.. But of course you haven't a single idea of what you're talking about..

Funny how Sega-16's list doesn't double up even one of those games you listed then isn't it, this just pretty much shows just how bad those Gamefaq's lists can be. Also its pretty strange to me that you'd take the word of Gamefaq's over the biggest Mega Drive site on the net

But still you're free to go on Sega-16 and alert them of any mistakes in their database, they have a thread specifically for this which has been going for years

Domino_slayer

There's a very simple way to check this actually. Name any MD game that's not some pirate bootleg or some custom player hack that's on SEGA-16 and that's NOT in the GF database. Go ahead name any, otherwise your whole point is rubbish.

Apart from bits and pieces on Saturn, Technosoft were busy making tons of PS1 games during the Saturn days and weren't bought out until 2001 Domino_slayer

They released 13 Playstation games against 10 Saturn games. So it wasn't a big difference. But ask any fan and they would tell you the only relevant games they released on this period was Thunder Force V and Hyper Duel. They wasted their Playstation support on some lame RPG series that didn't hit.

Who made pretty much nothing but scrolling shmups, which brings us back to my previous statement that all the best Saturn games are either fighting games or scrolling shmups.Domino_slayer

Another ignorant statement. Perhaps the only games you know are shooters and fighters, but the Saturn had many great games from other genres.

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

The Mega Drive also only got 422 Japanese games

A great majority of those 422 games were released overseas. So it's laughable to think there's actually an extra 515 exclusiive Western games. Not a chance.

Domino_slayer

Also, another thing to add, Japanese companies who were interested in making 3D games also cut the Saturn out of their equations as making a similar 3D game on Saturn could take twice as long as the same game on PS1 and unless you were ultra talented most often still looked worse.

^dont argue with that guy because he knows everything about sega.

^dont argue with that guy because he knows everything about sega.

bigM10231

Agreed. Don't **** with Panzer when it comes to Sega. He's all knowing :P

[QUOTE="Domino_slayer"]

LMAO

Panzer_Zwei

What a lame reply. The Saturn has more RPGs, more adventure games, more racing games, more puzzle games, more miscellaneous games etc.. But of course you haven't a single idea of what you're talking about..

Where it comes to Saturn Vs Mega Drive, I'll go along with you on the RPG front, I tend to discount Saturn RPG's as 70% of them are in Japanese and are unplayable to me, with what's left over in English being little more than a handful more than the Mega Drive, but yeah, the Saturn probably had tons more Japanese Rpg's on it.

Racing is more difficult to judge as that genre really came into it's own better during the 32-bit era, for a machine made in the late 80s the Mega Drive did everything expected of it in the racing genre and had tons of those outrun similar racing games along with stuff like Road Rash, Amiga ports and great top down racers like the Micro Machines series, Saturn on the other hand had virtually nothing apart from a small amount of multi-format's, Sega Rally and Daytona CCE (JP version, the original Saturn conversion was terrible) Manx TT was dated but half alright, Sega Touring cars was absolutely awful, Wipeout was cool (especially XL which, for some reason was never released in the US) but was a belated PS1 port, Street Racer was shockingly dated, Need For Speed was another belated port, this time from 3DO, also most of the non-sega games had pretty awful draw distances and pop up for the most part (like Scorcher). The re-release version of Daytona was also very good, though way too late.

So yeah, I'd say the Mega Drive did a pretty good job with racing up until the SNES' mode 7 games appeared and started to show it up a little, The Saturn's racing games on the other hand always looked pretty awful compared to PS1 games of the same era except Sega Rally, which was the Saturn's short day in the sun, if Sega had released a better port of Daytona earlier then it would've helped but they released a buggy mess that every magazine of the time actually ended up using as an example to prove that the Saturn couldn't handle 3D.

Mega Drive had tons of good strategy games, and seeing as the Japanese aren't exactly known for their numbers of strategy releases havinglow support from the west hurt the Saturn's Strategy genre

Having more puzzle games than the Mega Drive means pretty much nothing when the Mega Drive had virtually none anyway.

There's a very simple way to check this actually. Name any MD game that's not some pirate bootleg or some custom player hack that's on SEGA-16 and that's NOT in the GF database. Go ahead name any, otherwise your whole point is rubbish.Panzer_Zwei

They released 13 Playstation games against 10 Saturn games. So it wasn't a big difference. But ask any fan and they would tell you the only relevant games they released on this period was Thunder Force V and Hyper Duel. They wasted their Playstation support on some lame RPG series that didn't hit. Panzer_Zwei

Another ignorant statement. Perhaps the only games you know are shooters and fighters, but the Saturn had many great games from other genres.

Panzer_Zwei

So you think that western companies alone released 500 games for the system? Where are they? What companies made them?

Panzer_Zwei

The Commodore Amiga had literally no Japanese software supportat all and yet it had a game library of over 3000, that was all from Europe and America, in fact the largest part of it was just from Britain.

Where are they? What companies made them?Panzer_Zwei

American Publishers

Electronic Arts - EA alone published around 110 games for the Mega Drive the largest part of which were made up of ports of European made Amiga games (Fatal Rewind, James Pond Series, the Immortal, Theme Park) and sports (fifa's, Madden's, etc) but also with a bunch of original software (Strike series, Road Rash Series)

Accolade - around 20 games, though mainly crap there were a few worthwhile releases such as Star Control (awesome 2-player strategy game) and Zero Tolerance which was good at the time but isvery dated now.

Acclaim - around 30 games, NBA Jam, Mortal Kombats, some bad license games (though Demolition Man and Judge Dredd were alright)

Tengen - around 10 games, Gauntlet, Paperboy, Roadblasters, Klax etc

Sega Technical Institute and Sega Interactive development Division - the American branches of Sega, about 10 games each, they didn't make anything much on Saturn but made stuff like Eternal Champions, Kid Chameleon, Comix Zone, The Ooze during the Mega Drive days

Blue Sky - around 15 games, Vector Man series, sports games, Jurassic Park Games

Flying Edge - Around 15 games, mainly crap

Interplay - around 5 games, Rock N' Roll Racing, Boogerman, Lost Vikings.

Gametek - around 10 games, mainly Amiga ports and gameshow games.

Western Technologies - around 5 games, Spider-man, X-Men, a sports game and some crap

British Publishers

Virgin Interactive - around 20 games, the disney licenses like Aladdin, Lion King, Jungle Book, Amiga ports like Tyrants (Mega Lo Mania, great strategy game), Out of this World, Dune (father of Command and Conquer), Chuck Rock, other original games like Robocop Vs Terminator, Cool Spot, Global Gladiators (never liked that much, some people do though)

Codemasters - around 15 games, Micro Machines series, Fantastic Dizzy, Cosmic Spacehead, sports games.

Psygnosis - around 10 games, Flink, Wiz and Liz, Second Samurai

Core - around 10 games, Asterix, Bubba N' Stix, Skeleton Crew

US Gold - Around 10 games, all crap.

Rare - around 4 games, 2 Battletoads games, Snake Ratlle N' Roll and Championship Pro Am

I've reached 310 on my own, am not an expert, have only been including Britain and America and not the rest of Europe (the Ecco the Dolphin games for instance were made in Hungary, Flashback was made in France), I've been rounding down, and I've not been including small companies (I really can't be bothered to list like 50 companies who made 4 games each just to make up the numbers.)

At the end of the day this whole conversation is just silly, how the heck you expected a system which was only moderately successful in one territory to have more 3rd party support than one which was huge in two is beyond me

and by moderately successful I mean moderately, you make out the Saturn was huge in Japan, these sales graphs below show that whilst the Saturn was stronger there, it was still completely destroyed by the PS1 by 1997.

I don't see the point of bringing up the Playstation. The PS pretty much crushed all other consoles of the generation in terms of sales, third party support and genre variety. The argument was MD vs SS, and no matter how you want to slice it the SS had way more genre variety than the MD.

Also, I doubt anyone cares about what you are willing to play or not. That's your own issue and not of the systems because the games are there, and it's your problem if you can play them or not.

As for MD racing games, I disagree with what you said. Sure, the MD did the best it could that's true. But SEGA was like the best and most innovative developer in that particular genre at the time, but due to the lack of sprite scalling capabilities the MD unfortunately wasn't able to profit from that. All the SEGA arcade ports like Super Hang On, OutRun, Turbo OutRun etc. were pretty bad compared to their arcade counterparts. Because they were missing the sprite scalling, you never felt that sense of depth they had in the arcade, so stuff just appeared in front of you pretty awkwardly. To me those games were pretty hard, or almost unplayable compared to the arcade originals.

GameFaqs has all MD games that were released, period. And if you've used the site, you know it's a serious one, they don't make stuff up and put them on their list. (why would any in th first place). Plus they have the release dates and versions from all three regions listed, so as far as the database goes, I trust it more than SEGA-16. So for me this issue is pointless.

And what did Toaplan published on the MD that wasn't a shooting game? Nothing.

The western game list is pretty good, but you're forgetting the little detail that some of those games were also released in Japan. All of STI's games for example were released in Japan and are among the 422 game releases I mentioned. The Mortal Kombats, NBA Jam, EarthWorm Jims and a lot more western games were also on that game 422 list.

What I was talking about was about "exclusive" western games that were only released in the west and could be counted apart from that 422 game list. I mean it's obvious to anyone that the MD got a whole lot more games in the west than in Japan. The system does has a whole lot of western games that weren't released in Japan, but seriously, I highly doubt that even the SFC got 500 exclusive western games.

And again it's pointless to bring up the Playstation. This debate is between the MD and SS, and when it comes to those two systems the SS got more third party support than the MD. It's that simple. You're just plain bilnd or in denial by continuing to ignore the actually great differences in the game libraries between those systems.

I mean, the Saturn has more games than the MD, and that's a fact that for some silly reason you don't seem to be able to accept. But the fact of the matter is that the Saturn has more games in every single genre that is not sports and action/platform games, even you should be able to appreciate this fact.

But the amusing thing is that we're not even comparing both systems in equal terms. Even if the difference in the amount of games was negligible, we're still comparing a system that ran from late 1998 to 1995, to a system that only ran from late 1994 to 1998. And the fact that the Saturn managed to ramp up that amount of games in 4 years should clearly point out how a lot of game companies were more enthusiastic to publish games on the Saturn than on the MD.

Oh, and also the Saturn wasn't successful in Japan for the amout of hardware it sold (though it still encouraged some third parties to release their own hardware versions), but for the software sales, which is from what first party console companies make most of their money off anyway, since they usually always sell their hardware at a loss at first. The Saturn sold software very decently in Japan.

So yeah, maybe the system wasn't that successful as you pointed out, but it was successful nonetheless. Unlike the Dreamcast.

@ Domino_slayer& Panzer_Zwei

What do you guys do all day (I'm hoping you work for the gaming industry)? If not, chill out. If you like the system great. If you don't, don't worry about it. I had both and enjoied them. There were games I liked on both systems and I really don't care which one had more games/support. You guys are missing the whole point of video games and that is entertainment! See a game, like a game, buy a game, enjoy a game. That's what it's all about. While I agree that Sega definately alienated their fanbase with so many hardware releases in such a short time period, I still enjoied the games & systems I had. Dropping hard earned cash on hardware that will be obsolete in a couple of years is just the nature of the beast.

I think that the biggest hinderance to video gamer communities is the fanboy factions game system companies create. The hardware has gotten so expensive, most gamers have to "choose a side" and therefore feel the need to defend their choice to the death. I love playing video games. I'm obviously not as interested inthe history aspectas you two are but hey, if that's what you're into...