Shades of violence in gaming - hypocrisy?

Games with explicit scenes of torture, firefights, civilian violence... these are all out on the market. Yet, recently, when a game where the objective was to rape people was released, there were international complains and requests that it get removed. Personally? I think it's sickening and have no interest in it whatsoever. I also think it's hypocritical to ban it for its violent content when you have games where you can run 'n gun civilians, beat prostitutes to a pulp to recover your money (GTA) and games where you're given the option not only to kill military personnel, but civilians (Call of Duty, pretty much any other shooter out there). What is it that makes killing someone less violent - nay, more acceptable - than raping someone? Both are specially heinous crimes. You can't argue that in the case of rape, you're practicing violence against someone who's incapable of defending herself - games like Grand Theft Auto allow you to do your heart's bidding to civilians and passerbies. You can't argue that it could incite someone to commit rape, either - otherwise any game with violence in it would have to be banned.

Are people less tolerant to crimes of a sexual magnitude than they are to other, perhaps even more heinous, crimes? Why? Don't we have the ESRB and game ratings specifically to remove these games from innapropriate audiences? It's as ambiguous and hypocritical as drugs: you allow beer and cigarettes, yet drugs with less of a social impact are prohibited?

What's your opinion: do you think that if violence up to murder, torture and genocide is allowed, other just-as-heinous acts of violence should be allowed? Or do you think it's alright to have 'double-standards' in this case? Or do you disagree with me that the international community has double-standards when it comes to violence in media?

No I don't think banning a game where the objective is to rape people is hypocrisy at all. That is categorically disgusting and I see absolutely no reason for such a game to exist.Archangel3371

But you think shooting people down and beating people with a baseball bat is alright?

What I think it is that fighting is needed for a number of games but force sexual actions are not needed so it is something that can be given up.

[QUOTE="Archangel3371"]No I don't think banning a game where the objective is to rape people is hypocrisy at all. That is categorically disgusting and I see absolutely no reason for such a game to exist.iHarlequin

But you think shooting people down and beating people with a baseball bat is alright?

It all depends on context Its very hard to find a situation where rape would fit contextually into a gameSteverXIII

So is beating people on the street to a pulp, or committing mass murder at an airport in Russia. 'Fitting contextually' into a game isn't up to reviewers or other people to decide, it's up to whoever designed the game to decide.

All the brouhaha about rape lately is hypocritical at best. If that guy in the Tomb Raider trailer has sliced Lara with a knife everyone would have been fine, but "oh no he put a hand on her ass, so this is EVIL". Rape is terrible just like murder, but we are talking fiction here and even then the key word is context, if you treat a japanese rape simulator and a game where your character is the victim of rape as equal you are simply not very smart.

There's a terribly brutal gang rape scene in Kane & Lynch 2, but it happens on a black loading screen and you can only hear it, so no one cared. People have some serious and irrational taboos about sex. You can show torture porn movies like Saw and Hostel on TV but god forbid you show a woman's nipple. That's right, I said nipple, wanna bet someone somewhere though that was offensive?

You bring up a good point but doesn't anything sexual seem to strike a nerve with people?

Take GTA: San Andreas for example. Although it was met with the usual criticism all rockstar games inevitably get, **** really got real when the hot coffee mod was found. It was given an AO rating and re-released without the content. Apparently its okay for me to go around killing hookers, shooting innocent civilians and stealing a military tank to blow up cop cars, but apparently its not okay to bang my girlfriend in a sex mini game. The sheer destruction and violence that you're capable of in this game, not to mention the drugs, and cussing, and gangbanging did not push it to an AO rating, but a sex mini game did. Sex strikes a special nerve in people, especially parents.

Now the fact that its rape makes it much worse and strikes an even bigger outrage. Rape is diabolical, its traumatic, its despicable, its illegal. Murder is too, but like I said, things involving sex strike a bigger outrage. And the trauma factor involved with the rape has a lot to do with it too. Yes there are games where you can blow people's heads off and steal their cars and you don't hear a peep from gamers but...a game where you rape people for fun? You gotta draw the line somewhere.

But maybe I'm being hypocritical I mean, I play COD, I play GTA, I play loads of violent video games. I steal cars, kill people, and blow stuff up in these games and think nothing of it. But something about a game where you rape people strikes something in me. I just can't do it. I just can't. I can't really explain why but...I can't play something like that. I mean...its RAPE!

I don't think rape should be banned, I just don't personally need to see it.

It doesn't make me happy.

Violence in general makes me happy because I don't get to do it in RL, it's like a missing vitamin that I need.

I think in all humans is this propensity and need for violence.

Maybe it's just part of our caveman past, our biological hardwiring to have conflict, I know I'm hardwired for it and so I get it virtually and nobody needs to get hurt for real.

With rape, I don't feel a need to see it, it does nothing for me.

I think in all humans is this propensity and need for violence. Maybe it's just part of our caveman past, our biological hardwiring to have conflictZombieKiller7

Games with explicit scenes of torture, firefights, civilian violence... these are all out on the market. Yet, recently, when a game where the objective was to rape people was released, there were international complains and requests that it get removed. Personally? I think it's sickening and have no interest in it whatsoever. I also think it's hypocritical to ban it for its violent content when you have games where you can run 'n gun civilians, beat prostitutes to a pulp to recover your money (GTA) and games where you're given the option not only to kill military personnel, but civilians (Call of Duty, pretty much any other shooter out there). What is it that makes killing someone less violent - nay, more acceptable - than raping someone? Both are specially heinous crimes. You can't argue that in the case of rape, you're practicing violence against someone who's incapable of defending herself - games like Grand Theft Auto allow you to do your heart's bidding to civilians and passerbies. You can't argue that it could incite someone to commit rape, either - otherwise any game with violence in it would have to be banned.

Are people less tolerant to crimes of a sexual magnitude than they are to other, perhaps even more heinous, crimes? Why? Don't we have the ESRB and game ratings specifically to remove these games from innapropriate audiences? It's as ambiguous and hypocritical as drugs: you allow beer and cigarettes, yet drugs with less of a social impact are prohibited?

What's your opinion: do you think that if violence up to murder, torture and genocide is allowed, other just-as-heinous acts of violence should be allowed? Or do you think it's alright to have 'double-standards' in this case? Or do you disagree with me that the international community has double-standards when it comes to violence in media?

iHarlequin

While I find the game concept of raping people as a primary objective distasteful, I see it primarily as a matter of free speech and freedom of choice. I suppose it's also another fine example of the ultimate irony in American culture where entertainment based on violence is more acceptable than entertainment based on sex. I'd also say that if such a game is on the horizon, it's timing couldn't be worse. I'm not sure how well such a game would go over with all of the recent episodes of sexual explotation in real life playing out in the media.

I avoided the GTA games for a long time because I objected to the violent, antisocial content. After curiosity finally got the better of me and I picked up a copy of GTA IV, I began to appreciate the clever satire in the game and realized that it was a well done and very satircal game for adults. It turned out to become one of my all-time favorite games.

GTA, Saints Row and other such game series don't take themselves seriously and the violence is more cartoonish than lurid. Other violent games, like the military shooters, are based on the relaities of military conflict, which, unfortunately, are still far too dominant in modern life. Despite the many technoligical advances of humanity, we still can't resist the urge to club each other over the head in order to resolve our differences. I think a lot of controversial video games reflect that primal urge to violence in a way that satirizes it.

As to whether or not such a game should be banned, I would be inclined to say no. As with all other adult-themed games, it should be up to the individual to decide whether or not they want it, not the state. While I enjoy indulging my dark side in GTA and Saints Row by going on unrelenting sprees of mischief and violence, I would never engage in such behavior in the real world. Like most normal adults, I know the difference between fantasy and reality. I don't need to be protected from myself by having others impose their moral judgements on my choices, especially when they probably don't even play video games.

I think the reason we don't see violence in the same light as we see rape is a bit like how Jim Sterling over at Escapist said. in a war game, or hell even the hookers in GTA, they fight back. One way or another you can rationalize the violence in game.

but in the case of rape, it's a one way street. aggresser vs the victim.

I have absolutely no qualms with depiction of rape in media, so long as it does not amount to an endorsement of said act.

The Lara Croft thing was blown out of proportion, i felt. No word was spoken, but everyone knew what the deal was. Then Crystal Dynamics reversed course scared that it might offend someone. the threat is a real-world one, so why not use it to get an emotional reaction out of it. That might sound cheap, up until you slowly realize why other things happen in books, games, movies etc. etc., to illicit an emotional response. clearly there was one, but it was "why are you doing this to Lara?!" first off she wasn't raped, she was threatened with it and fought back for her life. That whole scene was not played out for the pleasure of people who wanna rape lara croft, you can explicitly see it was designed to show a really really dangerous moment between Lara and these evil men.

Morgan Webb over at G4 brought up and mentioned how a show like Law and Order SVU should not be on the air, and it got me thinking. is the word rape supposed to turn into Voldermort? like, "the word that shall not be mentioned"?

There is a lot of talk from the gaming media about how games need to 'grow up' and deal with heavier themes. i'm all for that for some games. other mediums do it all the time and don't even seem to get anywhere near the same controversy.

Seriously, in Tomb Raider the bad guy puts his hand on her and leans over her and the internet went freakin' nuts. Meanwhile, Tears of the Sun movie has an out in the open rape scene of a militia man taking a village woman. Again neither scenes are like "awesome! rape!" they're showing you how disgusting it is.

Just like how i don't horror films because of the supernatural gore freaks me the hell out (i don't have the stomach for it), if your stomach is gonna turn at just the whiff of the word or topic of rape, i dunno what to say. the movie is rated R, the game is rated M. go in expecting something bad to happen, you may not know it's coming but it may be coming.

I also wanna put a spin on something though. From a purely libertarian point of view 'rape games' would be completely legitimate to be made. Out of terrible taste. I've never played them because the idea, that your game has the objective (in this case the primary objective) to rape - say for example - innocent Japanese school girls riding the subway is disgusting. To me that is an endorsement of said behavior, and i'm not the least surprised people would be up in arms over it. I think it has to be something game designers have to think about, exactly what will and will not allow the player to be able to do. Also exactly how responsible are designers for how some of the audience will react to scenes or characters? Like if there is rape porn on the internet for say... Jade from Beyond Good and Evil, exactly how responsible are the designers for that?

Also one last thing, putting aside the topic of rape, i hear a lot of people complain about Lara being put through the ringer. From an origin story perspective i don't have much of a problem with how much hurt she's going through, so long as the story has her evolving and getting better and better at surviving and fighting back. but the Gamespot guys who did the "quote for truth" special recently, brought up a good point. How much of it is based on our gender bias's? While the new Tomb Raider reboot is going for a much grittier real world like go at it then Uncharted did, it's not exactly like Nathan Drake isn't getting his body knocked around a lot either. Would we have cared as much if the same happened to a male protaganist?

People are too sensitive about this kind of stuff.

It pisses me off so much when I see stories on the news about violent games that, according to them at least, cause children to become violent.

BULLSH*T

All I'll say is that these people such as Jack Thompson and other people who appear on the news know next to nothing about video games and how they actually affect young minds.

If you don't know anything about the gaming industry, YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE POLICING IT.

I don't think games with rape or violence should be banned as long as the game has the proper rating on the cover.

It's up to parents to decide if their children are mature enough to play the game. And people who are old enough to play the games should be smart enough to know rape and random acts of violence are wrong.

Dont tell me what games I can and can't play.

depends on practicality of content such as violence where hitting and shootes is part of gameplay and how to interacte with the game.... where as for rape, I done see anypoints unless for emotonal purpose and there's no right/ wrong way to implement in games... unless its adult content (G) u know of it....

All the brouhaha about rape lately is hypocritical at best. If that guy in the Tomb Raider trailer has sliced Lara with a knife everyone would have been fine, but "oh no he put a hand on her ass, so this is EVIL". Rape is terrible just like murder, but we are talking fiction here and even then the key word is context, if you treat a japanese rape simulator and a game where your character is the victim of rape as equal you are simply not very smart.

There's a terribly brutal gang rape scene in Kane & Lynch 2, but it happens on a black loading screen and you can only hear it, so no one cared. People have some serious and irrational taboos about sex. You can show torture porn movies like Saw and Hostel on TV but god forbid you show a woman's nipple. That's right, I said nipple, wanna bet someone somewhere though that was offensive?

Black_Knight_00

Games with explicit scenes of torture, firefights, civilian violence... these are all out on the market. Yet, recently, when a game where the objective was to rape people was released, there were international complains and requests that it get removed. Personally? I think it's sickening and have no interest in it whatsoever. I also think it's hypocritical to ban it for its violent content when you have games where you can run 'n gun civilians, beat prostitutes to a pulp to recover your money (GTA) and games where you're given the option not only to kill military personnel, but civilians (Call of Duty, pretty much any other shooter out there). What is it that makes killing someone less violent - nay, more acceptable - than raping someone? Both are specially heinous crimes. You can't argue that in the case of rape, you're practicing violence against someone who's incapable of defending herself - games like Grand Theft Auto allow you to do your heart's bidding to civilians and passerbies. You can't argue that it could incite someone to commit rape, either - otherwise any game with violence in it would have to be banned.

Are people less tolerant to crimes of a sexual magnitude than they are to other, perhaps even more heinous, crimes? Why? Don't we have the ESRB and game ratings specifically to remove these games from innapropriate audiences? It's as ambiguous and hypocritical as drugs: you allow beer and cigarettes, yet drugs with less of a social impact are prohibited?

What's your opinion: do you think that if violence up to murder, torture and genocide is allowed, other just-as-heinous acts of violence should be allowed? Or do you think it's alright to have 'double-standards' in this case? Or do you disagree with me that the international community has double-standards when it comes to violence in media?

iHarlequin

I totally agree. There are all kinds reprehensible scenes and acts in some of these games; especially against women. You mentioned GTA earlier, but then there's Saint Row's "Whored Mode", where the purpose is to maul down hordes of female prostitutes. Now if you can have this in a game, why have any limitations? Morality is not an issue for this industry, it's all politics thebest31406

It isn't a matter of morality nor is it politics, IMHO, it's adult entertainment. Both GTA and Saints Row are satirical, cartoonish adult games. They are not meant to be taken seriously and they are definitely not for children. Parents who let their kids play GTA or Saints Rows need to have their heads examined. Adults, on the other hand, should be able to choose the entertainment they desire as long as no one gets hurt for real.

I have no issue with ultra-violence in games. Rape is step too far, but I think it's alright for plot purposes and not used within gameplay. At the end of the day, it's JUST A GAME.

[QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

All the brouhaha about rape lately is hypocritical at best. If that guy in the Tomb Raider trailer has sliced Lara with a knife everyone would have been fine, but "oh no he put a hand on her ass, so this is EVIL". Rape is terrible just like murder, but we are talking fiction here and even then the key word is context, if you treat a japanese rape simulator and a game where your character is the victim of rape as equal you are simply not very smart.

There's a terribly brutal gang rape scene in Kane & Lynch 2, but it happens on a black loading screen and you can only hear it, so no one cared. People have some serious and irrational taboos about sex. You can show torture porn movies like Saw and Hostel on TV but god forbid you show a woman's nipple. That's right, I said nipple, wanna bet someone somewhere though that was offensive?

guynamedbilly

[QUOTE="guynamedbilly"][QUOTE="Black_Knight_00"]

All the brouhaha about rape lately is hypocritical at best. If that guy in the Tomb Raider trailer has sliced Lara with a knife everyone would have been fine, but "oh no he put a hand on her ass, so this is EVIL". Rape is terrible just like murder, but we are talking fiction here and even then the key word is context, if you treat a japanese rape simulator and a game where your character is the victim of rape as equal you are simply not very smart.

There's a terribly brutal gang rape scene in Kane & Lynch 2, but it happens on a black loading screen and you can only hear it, so no one cared. People have some serious and irrational taboos about sex. You can show torture porn movies like Saw and Hostel on TV but god forbid you show a woman's nipple. That's right, I said nipple, wanna bet someone somewhere though that was offensive?

Black_Knight_00

Well said. As always, this is fiction, they aren't real people. Anything that happens to fictional characters isn't morally wrong.guynamedbilly

[QUOTE="Archangel3371"]No I don't think banning a game where the objective is to rape people is hypocrisy at all. That is categorically disgusting and I see absolutely no reason for such a game to exist.iHarlequin

But you think shooting people down and beating people with a baseball bat is alright?