Sonic is NOT a failure!

I remember loving sonic games when i was younger. I think it was after Sonic Adventure that i started disliking the sonic series. I personally never ever hated the series, i just thought Sega made some major mistakes that did hurt the series. Games like Hero's and Shadow ruined it IMO. The GBA series (advanced) is awesome and the DS game is really good also. I never played the Wii or 360/Ps3 versions yet though.

I miss sonic a lot and i hope they make an awesome game soon.

There has not been any good Sonic games ever since the era of 3D came in fruition besides Sonic Rush which is in fact, a 2D game.

The series is not what it once was, something that can be stated for most Sega properties. Sonic has fallen from grace due to the mediocre quality of most of his recent games, especially through comparison to his earlier outings.

I think a lot of people would disagree with you TC. The only Sonic games ive ever liked were the 2D ones on the Genesis. After that, and especially when he went 3D, they just got worse and worse. Frankly I think the Sonic formula only ever worked in 2D, but that doesnt stop Sega from trying.
Clan_Crushbone

A funny thing that I don't think people realize today was that the Sonic Adventures were well-recieved by critics in consumers alike.

May wanna take a peek at this and this.

IMO, I think Sonic works just fine in 3D, and keep in mind i'm talking SONIC. I'm not talking about mechs and treasure hunting. I've always found the actual Sonic levels in the Sonic Adventures to be a blast. From a technical standpoint, Sonic works even better in 3D than 2D because of the much larger potential in level design and mechanics.

I think a lot of people judge some of the recent 3D Sonic games by overall quality then generalize by saying "it doesn't work in 3D". I see the fault in the mediocre gameplay tacked on to the core Sonic gameplay and overall poor efforts by Sega that has caused lower quality in 3D Sonic games. But actual Sonic gameplay translated into 3D works like a charm, IMO. Go back and play Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 (THE SONIC LEVELS OF THOSE GAMES) then re-evaluate how much it does or does not work.

sonic is a failure.Evil_Incarnate-

You're only saying that to piss me off.

Every forum has a bad apple. You're that bad apple.

1. for the most part, Mario's supporting cast is much better. if you just look at the closest characters...Luigi is better than Tails, Peach is better than that pink female thingy...Bowser and Robotnik... it's a toss up and Knuckles vs Wario... Knuckles wins.

Sonic is actually the perfect mascot for Sega. He's a symbol of something that once was great, but has sadly slipped into mediocrity, and never seems to be moving foward.

I won't call Sonic a failure. The history and the potential will always be there. But if the recent Ring of Fire is as good as the series will be on consoles, you can't convince me he should remain in the upper eschelon of game characters like Mario.

Sonic is terrible and his main character trait is also his biggest downfall. How are you meant to have a good game in 3d when your main character has to run at 200mph?HandsomeDead

First-person Sonic game. Make it like a racer... except people would get WAY too dizzy when Sonic spins, both in the air and on the ground. :P

Sonic will always have a place in my heart as one of the game charaters I grew up with. That being said his games have been going steadily downhill ever since the switch to 3D. And you sound like one of those fanboy fanatics who are part of the problem. If you bought Heroes, Shadow, and/or Sonic (the latest one) the you are just encouraging them to make more crap.

We'll stop saying bad things when Sega/Sonic Team actually try to make a decent game.

sorry, but the recent sonic games were tarrible. Sega is giving us pointless characters that have no real impact on the series. THey aren't comming up with interesting characters any more. Did we really need Esper the chameleon in sonic heroes.

Sonic adventure was good, but that was pretty much his only good 3d game. sega has been dropping the ball lately. He needs to go back to 2d, and have characters introduced, only if they are there for a reason other than to be there.

I ask you of this.

Have you ever played Shadow the Hedgehog? Or the next-generation Sonic?

Because those are the problems that face the series today. I can't think of anybody who gave either game a positive review outside of fans who couldn't tell a good game from Big Rigs.

1. for the most part, Mario's supporting cast is much better. if you just look at the closest characters...Luigi is better than Tails, Peach is better than that pink female thingy...Bowser and Robotnik... it's a toss up and Knuckles vs Wario... Knuckles wins.

smerlus

That's totally true, not to mention for the most part that the whole Mario universe has been fleshed out a lot more in games that happen to be awesome, such as Paper Mario. There's a reason why Mario can have spin-off games loaded with those characters where everybody from Toad to Koopa Troopas to Boo are playable characters.Sonic's cast goes Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Robotnik, and then all those other guys that nobody recognizes.

I think a lot of people would disagree with you TC. The only Sonic games ive ever liked were the 2D ones on the Genesis. After that, and especially when he went 3D, they just got worse and worse. Frankly I think the Sonic formula only ever worked in 2D, but that doesnt stop Sega from trying.
Clan_Crushbone

[QUOTE="HandsomeDead"]Sonic is terrible and his main character trait is also his biggest downfall. How are you meant to have a good game in 3d when your main character has to run at 200mph?Angry_Beaver

First-person Sonic game. Make it like a racer... except people would get WAY too dizzy when Sonic spins, both in the air and on the ground. :P

The only reason it works in 2D and not 3D because it can't be done in 3D. I mean it's just flatout impossible. Because in 2D you always know where you're going *right of the screen*, you can always see in front of you, you don't have to be precise on something to hit it. 3D can't do these following things which is pretty much makes Sonic.

I mean yes 3D can follow the Sonic formula but it can't be as good.

Let me give you prime examples.

The 2D Sonics contastnly had platforms you had to jump over and over again until you get to the top just to do another quick action.

Why can't you do this in 3D? Simple because it would be hard to time when to jump since third person lacks perspective comepared to side-scrolling and also you wouldn't be able to see what's on the other side of the platform, how the hell can I jump on a moving platform or a specific jumping spring if I can't see it?

Also in the 2D Sonics since you were traveling so fast you had to see that moving platform immediantly and be precise with your landing same with that spring.

Why can't you do this in 3D? For one you lack perspective since you're in 3rd person *can't see where it is exactly position and know exactly how far you jump*, and also you just had to worry about one little area *basically how far right or left you have to go* in 3D you have to worry about a total 180 degrees of perspective.

Finally Sonic *especially in the recent 2D ones* you explore alot have to switch left or right for a while jump up to that platform you see above or below you etc.

Why can't you do this in 3D? I can list a million reasons, but I'll list one. See if there's a platform 10 feet above you or a building with a little hole to jump into that you have to jump onto from a platform above you then how can you see it if the camera is pointed directly straight and you're moving 100mph? Exactly.

So it really isn't SEGA's fault they can't get the formulas fault, it's just the fact that it literally is impossible to do the games aspects in 3D as good.

Don't get me wrong Secret Rings was alright, but it was much more bland and linear compared to the 2D ones. It definatly has room for improvement but it can never capture what made the formula so great in the first place. I don't know why people keep pondering this 2D does things 3D doesn't do and vice-versa. We've had both co-exist *well entire industry wise anyway* for almost 15 years, and why people haven't realized this is beyond my imagination. I guess people are too busy trying to get the l33t A.I. and l33t graphics and online play to realize why some of their franchises just don't work well.

So what should SEGA do with the franchise?

One of two things.

A. Make Sonic IV in 2D for the Wii.

B. Do what the Ninja Gaiden, Donkey Kong, or other franchises did for their jumps. Totally redo everything and start from scratch from 3D. Find some solid gameplay mechanics, make the game good, then slap the Sonic name, characters, music, and everything else, and there it is a solid Sonic game in 3D.

[QUOTE="smerlus"]

1. for the most part, Mario's supporting cast is much better. if you just look at the closest characters...Luigi is better than Tails, Peach is better than that pink female thingy...Bowser and Robotnik... it's a toss up and Knuckles vs Wario... Knuckles wins.

AtomicTangerine

That's totally true, not to mention for the most part that the whole Mario universe has been fleshed out a lot more in games that happen to be awesome, such as Paper Mario. There's a reason why Mario can have spin-off games loaded with those characters where everybody from Toad to Koopa Troopas to Boo are playable characters.Sonic's cast goes Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Robotnik, and then all those other guys that nobody recognizes.

That's opinonated......but pretty streched out opinionated so I think most people will agree with you. Also for #2 yes they were good for their time, the 3D Sonic's just don't stand the test of time *as do the majority of games from recent generations I've noticed* as much as the old ones.