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Personally, I really like the storytelling in Half-Life 2.
The player isn't told much, but learns a lot through observation and speculation - fans are still intelligently speculating on the plot of the original game, almost ten years after its release.
Also, the Half-Life series was praised for its revolutionary storytelling. The story itself may seem lacking, but the way that it is told is brilliant.
A lot of you are banging up Halo for it's storytelling, and that saddens me.
Halo is kinda like Star Wars; it's so deep that it's impossible to cover everything in a few short installments. In their own way, Lucasfilm and Bungie somewhat WANTED there to be books, comics, and other extended universe installments to flesh it out because there was so much potential.
It wasn't sparse, quite the contrary. It was too big, and that was the problem (which was, of course, remedied by the brilliant literary accomplishments of Joseph Staten, Eric Nylund and William Deitz). Relax. Some worlds are best introduced slowly and then fleshed out by other people. We'll see more of it in our lifetimes, I'm sure of it. ;)
no one considers halo to have a better story then star wars. and if there is any one who actually thinks that, they should be slapped and labeled as some one who should never be listerned to. i seriosuly doubt they will ever teach halo in film studies like they do with star wars. dont express what you think, as if others have said it to you. halo does not have a great story, it has a good story. and its far from epic. if you want to acclaim it, acclaim it for its musical score, which is bloody excellent. besides the question you porpose is "how do games present their story" you then ramble on about your mindless and ultimatly pointless views on the story. if you have a point with this topic, your not making it. please entitle it "my mindless opinions on some game stories.....mainly modern xbox360 games"feel_freetwo
Refreshingly direct. :D
A lot of you are banging up Halo for it's storytelling, and that saddens me.
Halo is kinda like Star Wars; it's so deep that it's impossible to cover everything in a few short installments. In their own way, Lucasfilm and Bungie somewhat WANTED there to be books, comics, and other extended universe installments to flesh it out because there was so much potential.
athenian29
The storyline in the Halo trilogy is hardly what I would call "deep" or even close to being the best storylines out there....and just because the Halo universe is expansive, doesn't mean the story is deep.
And going further on that point, again, just because you have an expansive universe, doesn't mean that each installment, or even many installments in that universe has a deep story.
You want a deep story, look to games like Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate II, or The Longest Journey....those are games I would consider define what storyline in gaming can be, not Halo.
Personally, I really like the storytelling in Half-Life 2.
The player isn't told much, but learns a lot through observation and speculation - fans are still intelligently speculating on the plot of the original game, almost ten years after its release.Also, the Half-Life series was praised for its revolutionary storytelling. The story itself may seem lacking, but the way that it is told is brilliant.
Planeforger
Agreed.
Also,some of the stuff you said, in my opinion, didn't make any sense at all. Halo > Star Wars...not a chance. Halo is in no way in the top 10 (or even top 40) list of great sci-fi stories. No way.
[QUOTE="athenian29"]A lot of you are banging up Halo for it's storytelling, and that saddens me.
Halo is kinda like Star Wars; it's so deep that it's impossible to cover everything in a few short installments. In their own way, Lucasfilm and Bungie somewhat WANTED there to be books, comics, and other extended universe installments to flesh it out because there was so much potential.
Robnyc22
The storyline in the Halo trilogy is hardly what I would call "deep" or even close to being the best storylines out there....and just because the Halo universe is expansive, doesn't mean the story is deep.
And going further on that point, again, just because you have an expansive universe, doesn't mean that each installment, or even many installments in that universe has a deep story.
You want a deep story, look to games like Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate II, or The Longest Journey....those are games I would consider define what storyline in gaming can be, not Halo.
Clearly, we are not going to see eye-to-eye on this point.Your definition ofdeep, however, leaves somethingto be desired.:D
I didn't find Halo's storyline that great, really. It's interesting, yeah, but the way it's told seriously drags it down. It's as if Bungie were actually trying to make it as convoluted and confusing as possible.
BioShock disappointed me with its storytelling especially after hearing that it's one of its strongpoints. The story itself is good, but the way it's presented and told is lacking, to say the least. I never really cared about any of the characters, the audio diaries approach failed to immerse the player into the gameworld, I never had a true sense of what went on in Rapture. There's no real character interaction there at all, you're basically just a loner who wanders through the city encountering mutated freaks.
Half-Life 2 offers more emotionally-charged scenes in the first five minutes of gameplay than BioShock does in its entirety. For example, the woman who asks about her husband - she knows that the Combine took him, she knows he's gone, but she still desperately clings on to the bars hoping to see his face among the men getting off the arriving trains. It's an incredibly powerful moment and yet it's entirely possible that the player will just pass it up. And that's what's so amazing about Half-Life's storytelling - it doesn't force the player, it doesn't lead him by the hand, the amount of storyline that the player takes in is basically up to him save for the few crucial moments, of course. Valve's writers are at all times aware that this is a game, not a book, not a movie - a game.
Resident Evil 4 has a few interesting tidbits (namely Las Plagas), but it's not even in the vicinity of what constitutes a good storyline. The writing is fantastically idiotic, the story is cliched as well as downright ridiculous, and the voice acting is average at best. To say that Resident Evil 4 has a good storyline is an insult to games that actually made an effort in crafting a good storyline.
I agree with you that Grand Theft Auto (particularly Vice City), Mafia, and Portal have excellent storylines.
nice topic but you almost forgot one of the best and perhapse the first game that brought hollywood feel to video games ... the long runner Metal Gear series dude!
you can fill dozens of text books to tell its complex story and , like the case with most movies, the story in the end is linked with every one daily life in some way
nice topic but you almost forgot one of the best and perhapse the first game that brought hollywood feel to video games ... the long runner Metal Gear series dude!
you can fill dozens of text books to tell its complex story and , like the case with most movies, the story in the end is linked with every one daily life in some wayKasser
I concur :D
Clearly, we are not going to see eye-to-eye on this point.Your definition ofdeep, however, leaves somethingto be desired.:D
athenian29
Halo has a highly polished presentation and a good plot for an FPS (which is nothing to brag about in terms of overall storyline across various genres) which serves simply to move the action forward.
...but If you're trying to say that Planescape Torment's or Baldur Gate II's storyline isn't deep or compelling, especially in comparison to Halo, then you clearly have to reevaluate your definition of a "deep" storyline.
There is a reason why both Planescape Torment and Baldur's Gate II has made it onto many Greatest Games of All Time lists, including the one here at Gamespot.
...but then again, as soon as someone goes on about Halo having some "deep" storyline or one of the greatest storylines in videogames, it becomes a evident of how limited their exposure is into games with truly compelling storylines is.
The thing that really annoys me is that games usually look to text and/or cinematics to tell a story. Only a few games actually use the in-game world and the mechanics themselves as part of storytelling.
The thing that really annoys me is that games usually look to text and/or cinematics to tell a story. Only a few games actually use the in-game world and the mechanics themselves as part of storytelling.
nopalversion
For games like HL2 orBioshock which have unidimensional simplistic (yet compelling) plots, the in-game "read a paper, listen to a recording" type of storytelling is enough (and is also extremelly cheap to produce), but for games like Metal Gear Solid which have multidimensional and very complex plots with a lot of characters and subplots, the above type of storytelling doesn't cut it anymore, so beeing on multiple plans and through various perspectives, movie-like cutscenes and scenarios areneeded (extremelly expensive to produce).
I didn't find Halo's storyline that great, really. It's interesting, yeah, but the way it's told seriously drags it down. It's as if Bungie were actually trying to make it as convoluted and confusing as possible.
BioShock disappointed me with its storytelling especially after hearing that it's one of its strongpoints. The story itself is good, but the way it's presented and told is lacking, to say the least. I never really cared about any of the characters, the audio diaries approach failed to immerse the player into the gameworld, I never had a true sense of what went on in Rapture. There's no real character interaction there at all, you're basically just a loner who wanders through the city encountering mutated freaks.
Half-Life 2 offers more emotionally-charged scenes in the first five minutes of gameplay than BioShock does in its entirety. For example, the woman who asks about her husband - she knows that the Combine took him, she knows he's gone, but she still desperately clings on to the bars hoping to see his face among the men getting off the arriving trains. It's an incredibly powerful moment and yet it's entirely possible that the player will just pass it up. And that's what's so amazing about Half-Life's storytelling - it doesn't force the player, it doesn't lead him by the hand, the amount of storyline that the player takes in is basically up to him save for the few crucial moments, of course. Valve's writers are at all times aware that this is a game, not a book, not a movie - a game.
Resident Evil 4 has a few interesting tidbits (namely Las Plagas), but it's not even in the vicinity of what constitutes a good storyline. The writing is fantastically idiotic, the story is cliched as well as downright ridiculous, and the voice acting is average at best. To say that Resident Evil 4 has a good storyline is an insult to games that actually made an effort in crafting a good storyline.
I agree with you that Grand Theft Auto (particularly Vice City), Mafia, and Portal have excellent storylines.
UpInFlames
I agree entierly with everything you just said, especially about Half-life 2. From the milli-second the game actually started, inside that train cart, I felt more immersed than any game before it. The music and the grafti on the windows, and theexpressions of the two guys riding too made the setting feel more real then I thought possible in a game. It feels like abelievable depressing urban enviroment. I couldn't get pulled into Bioshock's setting because it didn't feel real at all. Bioshock has a cartoony sort of look to it, and I couldn't believe in the setting, because despite being very imaginative, it wasn't plausible (a city under the water built in the 1940's that features genetic freaks and a post-civil war background?)
I am glad this topic is here.
I just finished Indigo Prophecy; I saw it on the xbl marketplace and figured I'd give it a shot. Now, if the OP is looking for games with good storytelling,this is the way to go. Obviously, to compare an adventure game to a shooter like Halo or Half Life doesn't necessarily work (especially in a quantifiable sense), but when something is great it doesn't really matter what the trigger buttons do. When a game is able to get an individual to sit and start at an illuminated screen for all too many hours without realizing it, something is working.
I agree with many of the posters here: I believe that while flashy graphics and mechanics can make a game good, a true story written by real writers can propel it into greatness. Sure there are games that are fun to play around with (your Dooms or your Quakes), but it seems like there are all too few that can really pull off such a seductive atmosphere to truly suspend disbelief. Indigo Prophecy is my poster child for the moment, if only because I finished it just a little while ago, but it illustrates my point: David Cage knew what he wanted to do with the game, andin my opinioncreated a game that lived up his term "interactive film". It is true that graphically the game was behind the times at its release, and at some points character animations look flat out goofy (a main character has a perpetual strut as he walks- even during the game's more emotionally chargedscenes). In terms of sheer involvement, however, I have not played a more captivating game.
To be honest, this rant was going to find its way into the forums in one way or another, but I'm glad somebody beat me to the punch.
More like this please.
no final fantasy series?
I think that's a flawed list without Final Fantasy series involved. After all it made most money out of story telling alone.
Indigo Prophecy; this is how you immerse your player into a complex mystery murder yarn. Perfectly-placed camera shots, appropriate music, doing every single action like even opening cupboards and drinking wine. Narration through voice-overs, mental state as a mini-game. It's just a top-notch production from top to bottom, if we exclude how far-fetched the story gets later on.
Brilliant example with Max Payne, the story-telling in it is cinematic and noir-ish. Who knew reading a graphic novel could be this immersive with narration throughout, sound effects, just sounds like a radio show. Also, Max Payne will constantly have a running commentary whenever you're playing the game, so you're aware of his thoughts and mental state. There are other parts where through sound cues, the game plays with your mind and makes you hallucinogenic.
Assassin's Creed has hit onto something big, and that is interactive cutscenes. This is not just you being able to move the camera during a cutscene ala MGS, but also you can walk your character around (in a limited space) during a conversation, and not feel like watching two people standing at 1 spot and just talking (like previous Bioware games). Also, there are many ways how the storytelling unfolds, like memories are metaphorised as clouds blocking your way, and pretty much the 1st 10 minutes where you enter the cave and assess the situation.
So great examples, and I'll agree that Halo's story is pretty deep, but the games don't go into enough detail as they could, and you can only give credit to ERIC NYLUND for actually expanding the universe where the Bungie writers didn't think possible. He added actual science to the weapons, locations, and military technical details to make it feel as believable a world as our present-day is. The games don't accomplish that, and that's partly Bungie's fault. But I'll agree that adding religous zealots in the form of the Prophets hit a note with our times, as the Covenants are suckered into "The Great Journey" and never question their authorities only to be betrayed.
Half Life is revolutionary, and that's what drives Bioshock. Events like Splicers talking about things when you're not in their immediate vicinity and also when you meet the poor sap who's chained to the piano and can't get escape...that moment scared, disturbed, and moved the hell out of me :o. Never in a game have I felt such a shock. Bioshock's story-telling is no mean feat, and the audio diaries aren't just padding for the story; they're precursors to what you're about to experience in the form of new characters, locations, or philosophies.
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