the console that changed the gaming industery is:

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yomanjdf

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#1 yomanjdf
Member since 2003 • 1166 Posts

my opinion:

playstation 2

well it's the best and have most games until today still rock

first one to have hard drive, updates, firmware, net link, high gfx level on game with low grade hardware for 10 years!

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CDuG

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#2 CDuG
Member since 2009 • 1946 Posts

Pretty sure Dreamcast had a lot of that first. While the PS2 might have the biggest library, I wouldn't say it changed the industry.

Honestly I'd say the Genesis, because it forced competition onto an industry that was being dominated by Nintnedo at the time. If nobody had challenged them for the throne I think the industry would be different place and we would only have games catering to kids still.

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sixringz1

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#3 sixringz1
Member since 2004 • 1116 Posts

"CHANGED THE GAMING INDUSTRY"

The NES. Is this really even debatable? There's no other answer. If you want to talk about "favorite console" or this or that, then you can throw out anyconsole you want, but when it comes to "changed the gaming industry", It's a no brainer. Not only did the NES change the gaming industry, i'll go one step further and say it SAVED the industry. All the other systems that came around after it would not be what they were without the NES

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ohthemanatee

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#4 ohthemanatee
Member since 2010 • 8104 Posts

my opinion:

playstation 2

well it's the best and have most games until today still rock

first one to have hard drive, updates, firmware, net link, high gfx level on game with low grade hardware for 10 years!

yomanjdf

no on all those counts

Hard drive: Amiga CD 32 was the first console to have one and N64 also had a hardrive add on I believe

Firmware: I'm not sure what you mean by this one, the PS2 had firmware updates?

net link: Do you mean online? Even the Sega Genesis had online

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yomanjdf

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#5 yomanjdf
Member since 2003 • 1166 Posts

nes? i dont think so

maybe atari

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yomanjdf

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#6 yomanjdf
Member since 2003 • 1166 Posts

[QUOTE="yomanjdf"]

my opinion:

playstation 2

well it's the best and have most games until today still rock

first one to have hard drive, updates, firmware, net link, high gfx level on game with low grade hardware for 10 years!

ohthemanatee

no on all those counts

Hard drive: Amiga CD 32 was the first console to have one and N64 also had a hardrive add on I believe

Firmware: I'm not sure what you mean by this one, the PS2 had firmware updates?

net link: Do you mean online? Even the Sega Genesis had online

but the online and harddrive capablities were just a gimik until ps2
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ohthemanatee

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#7 ohthemanatee
Member since 2010 • 8104 Posts

"CHANGED THE GAMING INDUSTRY"

The NES. Is this really even debatable? There's no other answer. If you want to talk about "favorite console" or this or that, then you can throw out anyconsole you want, but when it comes to "changed the gaming industry", It's a no brainer. Not only did the NES change the gaming industry, i'll go one step further and say it SAVED the industry. All the other systems that came around after it would not be what they were without the NES

sixringz1

it saved the console and arcade industry in the US

PC gaming was in full swing worlwide, consoles were popular in Japan, Arcades were popular in Japan and Europe.... just saying

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ohthemanatee

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#8 ohthemanatee
Member since 2010 • 8104 Posts

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="yomanjdf"]

my opinion:

playstation 2

well it's the best and have most games until today still rock

first one to have hard drive, updates, firmware, net link, high gfx level on game with low grade hardware for 10 years!

yomanjdf

no on all those counts

Hard drive: Amiga CD 32 was the first console to have one and N64 also had a hardrive add on I believe

Firmware: I'm not sure what you mean by this one, the PS2 had firmware updates?

net link: Do you mean online? Even the Sega Genesis had online

but the online and harddrive capablities were just a gimik until ps2

actually the hardrive for the Amiga CD 32 was more useful then it ever was for the PS2

and really there are quite a few consoles that featured online gaming before the PS2, the sega genisis, the SNES, the dreamcast, there was nothing gimicky about them

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yomanjdf

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#9 yomanjdf
Member since 2003 • 1166 Posts

[QUOTE="yomanjdf"][QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

no on all those counts

Hard drive: Amiga CD 32 was the first console to have one and N64 also had a hardrive add on I believe

Firmware: I'm not sure what you mean by this one, the PS2 had firmware updates?

net link: Do you mean online? Even the Sega Genesis had online

ohthemanatee

but the online and harddrive capablities were just a gimik until ps2

actually the hardrive for the Amiga CD 32 was more useful then it ever was for the PS2

and really there are quite a few consoles that featured online gaming before the PS2, the sega genisis, the SNES, the dreamcast, there was nothing gimicky about them

online 16but gaming? never heard of that
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syphic2003

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#10 syphic2003
Member since 2005 • 33 Posts

What about NEC with the TG-16 CD being the first system to put games on Cd and move away from Cartridges?

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JuarN18

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#11 JuarN18
Member since 2007 • 4981 Posts

To be fair he said "in my opinion"

What about NEC with the TG-16 CD being the first system to put games on Cd and move away from Cartridges?

syphic2003

Or the vectrex the first console with analog controllers

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Quick-Time

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#12 Quick-Time
Member since 2007 • 610 Posts
NES saved the console market so I guess that was important. Though I've always thought Sega made gaming a bit more mature with the Genesis. Sega made a lot of innovations in gaming.
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Stinger78

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#13 Stinger78
Member since 2003 • 5846 Posts

nes? i dont think so

maybe atari

yomanjdf
Atari is what caused the crash that the NES brought the industry back from.
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Talldude80

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#14 Talldude80
Member since 2003 • 6321 Posts

"CHANGED THE GAMING INDUSTRY"

The NES. Is this really even debatable? There's no other answer. If you want to talk about "favorite console" or this or that, then you can throw out anyconsole you want, but when it comes to "changed the gaming industry", It's a no brainer. Not only did the NES change the gaming industry, i'll go one step further and say it SAVED the industry. All the other systems that came around after it would not be what they were without the NES

sixringz1

exactly!

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ohthemanatee

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#15 ohthemanatee
Member since 2010 • 8104 Posts

online 16but gaming? never heard of thatyomanjdf

here you are: Sega Genesis' X-band

[QUOTE="sixringz1"]

"CHANGED THE GAMING INDUSTRY"

The NES. Is this really even debatable? There's no other answer. If you want to talk about "favorite console" or this or that, then you can throw out anyconsole you want, but when it comes to "changed the gaming industry", It's a no brainer. Not only did the NES change the gaming industry, i'll go one step further and say it SAVED the industry. All the other systems that came around after it would not be what they were without the NES

Talldude80

exactly!

I honestly think people overrate the NES' exploits

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Jessey-Stone

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#16 Jessey-Stone
Member since 2011 • 375 Posts

but the online and harddrive capablities were just a gimik until ps2

i dont think sega net for the dreamcast was a gimmick

dreamcast revolutionized online gameplay with games like phantasy star online, quake arena wich btw the original servers are still open.

xbox live and psn where all inspired by the dreamcast sega net even to today consoles get ideas from the dreamcast like the wii u got the idea of the screen on the controller because of the dreamcast. controller for the xbox was inspired by the dreamcast

i say the only reason a ps2 is called better than a dreamcast was because it had to joysticks

overall the dreamcast seems like the better console than the ps2 yes the ps2 lasted longer and had more following but that does not make it the superior console or revolutionized the industry of gaming. also the online gaming in th genesis and snes werent gimmicks they actually worked pretty good so i would not call it a gimmick

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topsemag55

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#17 topsemag55
Member since 2007 • 19063 Posts
Maybe it didn't quite change the industry, but the PS2 has the best BC in the business. Runs PS1 games without a hitch.
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Swift_Boss_A

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#18 Swift_Boss_A
Member since 2007 • 14579 Posts

The original Playstation did a lot for the games industry, it really shifted the mindset of the mainstream audience.

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KBFloYd

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#19 KBFloYd
Member since 2009 • 22714 Posts

either atari 2600 or NES..

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SpikeyAss

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#20 SpikeyAss
Member since 2011 • 221 Posts

The 2600, NES, Mega Drive and PS1 all come to mind for all of the previously mentioned reasons.

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Crashbox45

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#21 Crashbox45
Member since 2009 • 204 Posts

The console that changed everything for me was the PS1.

Why? Well in Christmas of 1998, I got that very system on that day. So you ask me what was significant about this? I turned myself from being a partial Ninty fanboy to being a full on neutral gamer.

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nameless12345

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#22 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

Good question. I'd say it was either NES (saved the US console market from sinking) or PS1 (32-bit CD console done right, movie-like presentation and 3D gaming).

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deactivated-57ad0e5285d73

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#23 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
Member since 2009 • 21398 Posts

Gotta go with the Gameboy. Turned gaming into a multi console market. It became normal for a gamer to own a home and portable console.

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doubutsuteki

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#24 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts

Well, I think that a whole lot of consoles changed the gaming industry through it's history, simply because everyone had the others' console designs to adjust to, and other console makers' business successes and failures in the industry to learn from, in order to be competitive in the market place. While many unsuccessful companies have released consoles that pioneered some particular innovation, I think that success in the business sense is more important than anything else. The successful consoles are the ones that brought about change - "change in the gaming industry" is neccessarily something broad, not something isolated.

Take the Master System, for example: Sega ended up using better hardware in it than in its original design - and a NES-like controller - it in order for it to be competitive with the Famicom. Before the Famicom, Sega had already entered the console market in Japan with the SG-1000 - once the Famicom/NES started it's reign Sega had to respond to it; a redesigned SG-1000 became the Mark III, the Master System. It's no coincidence that some of Sega's own game titles from that era more than slightly resemble Nintendo's hit games either - Golden Axe Warrior is probably the most obvious example of a game that rips off of Zelda. This happened - and still happens. If someone makes a console or a game that sells, you can be sure that others jump on the bandwagon.

And, sure, the PlayStation wasn't the first CD-ROM-based console - but it was the first to be more successful than the most popular cartridge-based consoles. In the case of CD-ROMs suppleanting cartridges: it was inevitable. It was probably the only way forward at that point. But again, the reason was that Sony had already been involved with Nintendo since years in order to bring CD-ROM-technology to the SNES - so when Nintendo pulled out of their partnership, it wasn't unreasonable for Sony to use that technology to make the PlayStation; it was all circumstances relating to business and the rivalry that goes with it, not that Nintendo didn't want to go with CD-ROM:s - everyone else that tried to enter the competition with Nintendo went with CD-ROM, including their main rival, Sega. Perhaps the failure of the Mega-CD had some impact on the design of the Nintendo 64 - and I do think that the failure of Sega has had an impact on Nintendo's design choices since then, as they've gone from being the video game company among a dozen of challengers, to one among two other well established giants. Their strategy for survival in this age has turned out to be the opposite of that of their former main competitor, Sega: Rather than incorporating the best technology and getting it out there before anyone else, they have, I think, begun to look at themselves and what they can offer, the answer after decades of successful first-party games, is software. Their excuse for being in the console market when their competitors obviously have better hardware, and have huge resources to boot - remember that Microsoft made big losses entering the market with the Xbox in the beginning - is their focus on integrating the game experience more closely with the console that they have - how successful they've been in this regard is a matter of debate, in the business sense they've been very successful. And so Kinect and Move appeared...

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Emerald_Warrior

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#25 Emerald_Warrior
Member since 2008 • 6581 Posts

The 10 most industry changing console, IMO:

1. Magnavox Odyssey - It's the one that started it all. The first ever home video game anything. Basically it was the first home Pong system.

Odyssey

2. Fairchild Channel F - The first gaming console to play different games on different cartridges. Very strange controllers.

Fairchild Channel F

3. Atari 2600 - This is the console that a LOT of gamers started out on. It's the first popular console to play different games on different cartridges (Fairchild Channel F did this first, to be fair, but it wasn't nearly as popular). Unfortunately, it's also the console that nearly killed the gaming industry in 1983-1985; glutting the market with way too much crap on a cartridge.

2600

4. NES - It saved the entire video game industry during a time when only PC gaming was doing well, and not even as well as the console-gaming market had done just a few years earlier. Without NES, the gaming world might look a lot different today.

NES

5. PS1 - While there had been 3D-oriented consoles before it (Jaguar, 3DO, Saturn), it really was the PS1 that pushed through to the mainstream public and a bought the general public from 2D to 3D gaming.

PS1

6. Sega Dreamcast - This was the fist console to really embrace online gaming in a way no other console had before it. SegaNET was the precursor to XBox Live and Playstation Network.

Dreamcast

7. Nintendo Wii - Love it or hate, this is the console that first embraced motion controls as a main focus. PS2 Eye Toy did before Wii, but it wasn't a huge focus and not nearly as precise. Nintendo Wii paved the way for Playstation Move and XBox Kinnect.

Wii

8. Milton-Bradley MicroVision - Not exactly a huge hit, but it should have a place here for being the first true handheld gaming system.

MB

9. Nintendo Game Boy - There were handhelds before it: Nintendo Game & Watch, Tiger Electronics Handhelds, & the only true console SYSTEM that came before Game Boy The MicroVision. But despite all these contenders, it wasn't until Game Boy came out that handheld game really got big with the general public. And such a vast library of games to choose from on the original brick.

GB

10. Nintendo DS - The first handheld system to embrace a touch-screen, allowing for entirely new ways to play handheld games.

DS

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doubutsuteki

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#26 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts

3. Atari 2600 - This is the console that a LOT of gamers started out on. It's the first popular console to play different games on different cartridges (Fairchild Channel F did this first, to be fair, but it wasn't nearly as popular). Unfortunately, it's also the console that nearly killed the gaming industry in 1983-1985; glutting the market with way too much crap on a cartridge.

4. NES - It saved the entire video game industry during a time when only PC gaming was doing well, and not even as well as the console-gaming market had done just a few years earlier. Without NES, the gaming world might look a lot different today.

Emerald_Warrior

Yup. The computer game market consisted primarily of enthusiasts at that time, rather than the general public. And rather than being made up by large corporations the humble beginnings of the PC game industry was within that core of enthusiasts. While the early PC developers made games for the fun of the challenge of making them - or that they were interested in and enjoyed themselves - Atari joked about putting horsesh*t on cartridges and selling a million of them - they got exactly what they asked for and deserved.

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Banjo_Kongfooie

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#27 Banjo_Kongfooie
Member since 2007 • 3838 Posts

Tough pick- N64 in my view, unfortunately by picking Cartridges and losing to the playstation it sealed the fate of discs becoming the standard.

Ps2 - Start of home entertainment style consoles

DC- online

Xbox- made online mainstream for consoles

Wii- Motion controls

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doubutsuteki

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#28 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts

N64 in my view, unfortunately by picking Cartridges and losing to the playstation it sealed the fate of discs becoming the standard.Banjo_Kongfooie

CDs were already the standard at that point for music and computer software since years. But, to be picky, Nintendo never conformed to any CD-standard and instead adopted their own non-standard and proprietary disc-format when they left cartridges behind.

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kittensRjerks

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#29 kittensRjerks
Member since 2010 • 3802 Posts

I'd say the NES it saved the game industry and paved the way for the future

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nameless12345

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#30 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

3. Atari 2600 - This is the console that a LOT of gamers started out on. It's the first popular console to play different games on different cartridges (Fairchild Channel F did this first, to be fair, but it wasn't nearly as popular). Unfortunately, it's also the console that nearly killed the gaming industry in 1983-1985; glutting the market with way too much crap on a cartridge.

4. NES - It saved the entire video game industry during a time when only PC gaming was doing well, and not even as well as the console-gaming market had done just a few years earlier. Without NES, the gaming world might look a lot different today.

doubutsuteki

Yup. The computer game market consisted primarily of enthusiasts at that time, rather than the general public. And rather than being made up by large corporations the humble beginnings of the PC game industry was within that core of enthusiasts. While the early PC developers made games for the fun of the challenge of making them - or that they were interested in and enjoyed themselves - Atari joked about putting horsesh*t on cartridges and selling a million of them - they got exactly what they asked for and deserved.

I think it must also be mentioned that PC gaming back then was a lot different than today. There were a lot of different home computers and the PC we know today was rather lackluster. It was all about Commodore (Amiga and C-64) and Atari ST back then. It wasn't untill the early 90s when the PC wiped away all other home computers (due to superior hardware capabilities).

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Emerald_Warrior

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#31 Emerald_Warrior
Member since 2008 • 6581 Posts

[QUOTE="doubutsuteki"]

[QUOTE="Emerald_Warrior"]

3. Atari 2600 - This is the console that a LOT of gamers started out on. It's the first popular console to play different games on different cartridges (Fairchild Channel F did this first, to be fair, but it wasn't nearly as popular). Unfortunately, it's also the console that nearly killed the gaming industry in 1983-1985; glutting the market with way too much crap on a cartridge.

4. NES - It saved the entire video game industry during a time when only PC gaming was doing well, and not even as well as the console-gaming market had done just a few years earlier. Without NES, the gaming world might look a lot different today.

nameless12345

Yup. The computer game market consisted primarily of enthusiasts at that time, rather than the general public. And rather than being made up by large corporations the humble beginnings of the PC game industry was within that core of enthusiasts. While the early PC developers made games for the fun of the challenge of making them - or that they were interested in and enjoyed themselves - Atari joked about putting horsesh*t on cartridges and selling a million of them - they got exactly what they asked for and deserved.

I think it must also be mentioned that PC gaming back then was a lot different than today. There were a lot of different home computers and the PC we know today was rather lackluster. It was all about Commodore (Amiga and C-64) and Atari ST back then. It wasn't untill the early 90s when the PC wiped away all other home computers (due to superior hardware capabilities).

And the Apple II, which may have not been the best gaming out of the 3, but it was the most popular. Over in Europe it was all about the Spectrum.

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silent_bomber

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#32 silent_bomber
Member since 2009 • 767 Posts

And, sure, the PlayStation wasn't the first CD-ROM-based console - but it was the first to be more successful than the most popular cartridge-based consoles. In the case of CD-ROMs suppleanting cartridges: it was inevitable. It was probably the only way forward at that point. But again, the reason was that Sony had already been involved with Nintendo since years in order to bring CD-ROM-technology to the SNES - so when Nintendo pulled out of their partnership, it wasn't unreasonable for Sony to use that technology to make the PlayStation; it was all circumstances relating to business and the rivalry that goes with it, not that Nintendo didn't want to go with CD-ROM:s - everyone else that tried to enter the competition with Nintendo went with CD-ROM, including their main rival, Sega. Perhaps the failure of the Mega-CD had some impact on the design of the Nintendo 64 - and I do think that the failure of Sega has had an impact on Nintendo's design choices since then, as they've gone from being the video game company among a dozen of challengers, to one among two other well established giants. Their strategy for survival in this age has turned out to be the opposite of that of their former main competitor, Sega: Rather than incorporating the best technology and getting it out there before anyone else, they have, I think, begun to look at themselves and what they can offer, the answer after decades of successful first-party games, is software. Their excuse for being in the console market when their competitors obviously have better hardware, and have huge resources to boot - remember that Microsoft made big losses entering the market with the Xbox in the beginning - is their focus on integrating the game experience more closely with the console that they have - how successful they've been in this regard is a matter of debate, in the business sense they've been very successful. And so Kinect and Move appeared...doubutsuteki

I'd imagine the main reason for the N64 being cartridge based was due to control

Back in the 80s Nintendo were the only company allowed to officially manufacture NES/Famicom games, all 3rd parties had to send titles to them for approval to be manufactured, which meant that Nintendo had final say over what types of content would be allowed, how many units would be allocated, and when the game would be released (all within reason obviously), it also meant that Nintendo could make unreasonable demands (for instance titles appearing on NES had to be console exclusive for 2 years)

Nintendo had to be paid a royalty by 3rd parties, and Nintendo also charged double the cost for manufacturing the cartridges, so they actually made both a royalty profit, and a manufacturing profit. Because Nintendo charged double for manufacturing, they could actually make cartridge sizes which were double that of their competitors for the same price, meaning that their games always had an advantage over 3rd party titles, for 3rd parties to make similar size games their titles would either have to be more expensive, or have lower profit margins.

Savvy 3rd parties could manufacture their own cartridges, but this took expertise as it required them to bypass the Nintendo lock-out chip in a manner which didn't infringe on any of Nintendo's copyrights so only a handfull of companies were able to do this.

Nintendo carried this on with the SNES, but had to relax on certain policies both due to a combination of legal pressure (the exclusivity agreements), and competition pressure (the censorship was making it difficult for them to compete with Mega Drive)

Essentially Nintendo's huge videogame empire was built on control, CDs were easy to manufacture and difficult to control so its easy to see why Nintendo may have been unwilling to jump into CDs

Obviously on top of that there are other benefits with going with cartridges to take into account though, piracy for instance is easier with CDs, and not to forget at the time CD drives added significantly to hardware cost, if the N64 had been released with a CD drive it would've been the most expensive console on the market at launch, at ~$100 more expensive than both PS1 and Saturn during that time.

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nameless12345

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#33 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

Regarding the media choice on the 64 - Nintendo knew that the small storage space on the cartridges will be a limitation and they started working on alternative media add-ons like the 64DD was prior to the console's release even. Work on 64DD started in 1995 and Nintendo had big plans with it as many future games would be released on the 64DD. However, development on the add-on was somewhat slow and it came out far too late (1999, Japan only) so they either moved, or canned, all the titles to the cartridge format (which has seen an increase in storage over time).

It's not that Nintendo wasn't interested in the CD format, they simply had to drop it due to their failed deal with Sony to make a CD add-on for the SNES.

Another reason was piracy concerns which in many ways were true (N64 carts were hard to pirate while piracy on the PS1 thrieved).

As for their switch to the casual market - we have to understand that Nintendo lost a lot of 3rd party support due to sticking with the cartridge format on the 64 and never quite recovered. The GC was a nice try but unfortunatley suffered from a "kiddy" image which turned away many potential costumers and 3rd parties. They really weren't in a state where they could rightfully compete with MS and Sony after the failure of GC so they made a more casual-oriented console (namely the Wii). They're now trying to reclaim the core market and the lost 3rd party support with the Wii U and we're yet to see if they succeed with that.

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doubutsuteki

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#34 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts

[QUOTE="doubutsuteki"]And, sure, the PlayStation wasn't the first CD-ROM-based console - but it was the first to be more successful than the most popular cartridge-based consoles. In the case of CD-ROMs suppleanting cartridges: it was inevitable. It was probably the only way forward at that point. But again, the reason was that Sony had already been involved with Nintendo since years in order to bring CD-ROM-technology to the SNES - so when Nintendo pulled out of their partnership, it wasn't unreasonable for Sony to use that technology to make the PlayStation; it was all circumstances relating to business and the rivalry that goes with it, not that Nintendo didn't want to go with CD-ROM:s - everyone else that tried to enter the competition with Nintendo went with CD-ROM, including their main rival, Sega. Perhaps the failure of the Mega-CD had some impact on the design of the Nintendo 64 - and I do think that the failure of Sega has had an impact on Nintendo's design choices since then, as they've gone from being the video game company among a dozen of challengers, to one among two other well established giants. Their strategy for survival in this age has turned out to be the opposite of that of their former main competitor, Sega: Rather than incorporating the best technology and getting it out there before anyone else, they have, I think, begun to look at themselves and what they can offer, the answer after decades of successful first-party games, is software. Their excuse for being in the console market when their competitors obviously have better hardware, and have huge resources to boot - remember that Microsoft made big losses entering the market with the Xbox in the beginning - is their focus on integrating the game experience more closely with the console that they have - how successful they've been in this regard is a matter of debate, in the business sense they've been very successful. And so Kinect and Move appeared...Domino_slayer

I'd imagine the main reason for the N64 being cartridge based was due to control

Back in the 80s Nintendo were the only company allowed to officially manufacture NES/Famicom games, all 3rd parties had to send titles to them for approval to be manufactured, which meant that Nintendo had final say over what types of content would be allowed, how many units would be allocated, and when the game would be released (all within reason obviously), it also meant that Nintendo could make unreasonable demands (for instance titles appearing on NES had to be console exclusive for 2 years)

Nintendo had to be paid a royalty by 3rd parties, and Nintendo also charged double the cost for manufacturing the cartridges, so they actually made both a royalty profit, and a manufacturing profit. Because Nintendo charged double for manufacturing, they could actually make cartridge sizes which were double that of their competitors for the same price, meaning that their games always had an advantage over 3rd party titles, for 3rd parties to make similar size games their titles would either have to be more expensive, or have lower profit margins.

Savvy 3rd parties could manufacture their own cartridges, but this took expertise as it required them to bypass the Nintendo lock-out chip in a manner which didn't infringe on any of Nintendo's copyrights so only a handfull of companies were able to do this.

Nintendo carried this on with the SNES, but had to relax on certain policies both due to a combination of legal pressure (the exclusivity agreements), and competition pressure (the censorship was making it difficult for them to compete with Mega Drive)

Essentially Nintendo's huge videogame empire was built on control, CDs were easy to manufacture and difficult to control so its easy to see why Nintendo may have been unwilling to jump into CDs

Obviously on top of that there are other benefits with going with cartridges to take into account though, piracy for instance is easier with CDs, and not to forget at the time CD drives added significantly to hardware cost, if the N64 had been released with a CD drive it would've been the most expensive console on the market at launch, at ~$100 more expensive than both PS1 and Saturn during that time.

Maybe. But CD-burners were still quite expensive then - although they became affordable by the end of the 90s. Of course, just a few years earlier when Nintendo and Sega partnered to make a CD-addon for the SNES the piracy question cannot possibly have been as relevant as it may have been when Nintendo were designing the N64. Though, I haven't considered the control aspects of cartridge manufacturing either in relation to the N64: it seems to me as if they should have understood that they would unavoidably lose some third party support to Sony, and that leaving cartridges behind was the only way forward in the long run. Perhaps they were too full of themselves, too unwilling to listen to the competition, after the successes of the NES and the SNES - kinda like how Atari were confident in their time that whatever they put out, people would buy. So, yeah, I think you have a point there. It may be the biggest mistake Nintendo ever made. Sure, the N64 was already going to be the most advanced console for it's generation, so adding a CD-ROM to it may have made it significantly more expensive than the PlayStation and the Saturn, and Nintendo thought that they would be able to hold their ground well with what they had - it turned out not to be how to control the market at that point though, even if it meant tighter control of their own shrinking segment of it.

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doubutsuteki

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#35 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts



Regarding the media choice on the 64 - Nintendo knew that the small storage space on the cartridges will be a limitation and they started working on alternative media add-ons like the 64DD was prior to the console's release even. Work on 64DD started in 1995 and Nintendo had big plans with it as many future games would be released on the 64DD. However, development on the add-on was somewhat slow and it came out far too late (1999, Japan only) so they either moved, or canned, all the titles to the cartridge format (which has seen an increase in storage over time).

nameless12345


Well, maybe development of it slowed down as Nintendo became increasingly aware over time that the battle against CD-ROM was essentially a lost cause due to the much cheaper manufacturing of CDs and the vastly larger storage capacity they offered?



It's not that Nintendo wasn't interested in the CD format, they simply had to drop it due to their failed deal with Sony to make a CD add-on for the SNES.

Another reason was piracy concerns which in many ways were true (N64 carts were hard to pirate while piracy on the PS1 thrieved).



Well, you didn't have to manufacture your own N64 carts if you had a ROM copier device - while not wide-spread, they existed all along for the NES and SNES. If game cart prices were high - and we all know they were for the N64 - it would inevitably make copiers more desirable for people. Of course, it would've also required the N64 itself to be desirable. But yeah, copying PlayStation games turned into something quite cheap and accessible for many people over time, and the console was extremely popular. I'm even thinking that the ease and affordability of mod chips and blank CDs for burners may have contributed to it's success over the N64.



As for their switch to the casual market - we have to understand that Nintendo lost a lot of 3rd party support due to sticking with the cartridge format on the 64 and never quite recovered. The GC was a nice try but unfortunatley suffered from a "kiddy" image which turned away many potential costumers and 3rd parties. They really weren't in a state where they could rightfully compete with MS and Sony after the failure of GC so they made a more casual-oriented console (namely the Wii). They're now trying to reclaim the core market and the lost 3rd party support with the Wii U and we're yet to see if they succeed with that.



I'd say they've made inroads into a new market, one that Sony and Microsoft has started to try to cater to as well, as the Wii with it's motion controls turned out to be a commercial success.

I agree that they're not in a position to compete head-on, that is part of the reason why they took the turn that they did with the Wii, they wanted, and still want, to create a space within the market for a niche console with games that - even if they can be ported to the other consoles, will not play the same as on their console.

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#36 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts

I think it must also be mentioned that PC gaming back then was a lot different than today. There were a lot of different home computers and the PC we know today was rather lackluster. It was all about Commodore (Amiga and C-64) and Atari ST back then. It wasn't untill the early 90s when the PC wiped away all other home computers (due to superior hardware capabilities).

nameless12345

By PC I meant Personal Computers as opposed to consoles - IBM clones don't have a trademark on that word. :P

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doubutsuteki

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#37 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="doubutsuteki"]

Yup. The computer game market consisted primarily of enthusiasts at that time, rather than the general public. And rather than being made up by large corporations the humble beginnings of the PC game industry was within that core of enthusiasts. While the early PC developers made games for the fun of the challenge of making them - or that they were interested in and enjoyed themselves - Atari joked about putting horsesh*t on cartridges and selling a million of them - they got exactly what they asked for and deserved.

Emerald_Warrior

I think it must also be mentioned that PC gaming back then was a lot different than today. There were a lot of different home computers and the PC we know today was rather lackluster. It was all about Commodore (Amiga and C-64) and Atari ST back then. It wasn't untill the early 90s when the PC wiped away all other home computers (due to superior hardware capabilities).

And the Apple II, which may have not been the best gaming out of the 3, but it was the most popular. Over in Europe it was all about the Spectrum.

As for what computer was the most popular, I'm pretty sure that the ZX Spectrum was the most popular in the U.K. - and clones were popular troughout the Soviet Union. I know that the Spectrum was much less popular than the C=64 in Sweden from experience, and I feel pretty confident to say that the situation was similar in the rest of Scandinavia and in Germany. After the 8-bit systems, it was about the Amiga or the Atari ST here - well into the 90s.

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silent_bomber

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#38 silent_bomber
Member since 2009 • 767 Posts

In Europe -

Spectrum was most popular in Britain, Spain, and maybe Portugal

C64 was most popular in Germany, Scandinavian countries, and Italy

Amstrad was most popular in France.

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LPG13

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#39 LPG13
Member since 2011 • 141 Posts
i had an atari, a commodore, nes, sega genesis, psx, ps2, gamecube, dreamcast, n64, game boy, etc. but the inflection point of my gaming life was the PSX... NES was always a blast, sega genesis too, then i got a n64 that i had for like a week just to return it and get the playstation... every game i played in that console was a masterpiece, one after another... metal gear, resident evil, silent hill, alone in the dark, megaman x (i love X series, the older ones are good too but X's saga its a f*cking blast), parasite eve, final fantasy, soul reaver, shadowman, 40 winks... man, i could name em all and every single one reminds me the most epic gaming times of my life.... everything went downhill from there... NES and Sega Genesis follow the PSX in the epic console meter, PC would come before if we count it, the monkey island saga and fallout 1 and 2 are in my top 10 best games ever, and only were in PC.
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deactivated-57ad0e5285d73

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#40 deactivated-57ad0e5285d73
Member since 2009 • 21398 Posts

NES or N64. People seem to forget that after the introduction of the N64, the reaction to the analog stick was quite negative. Gamers didn't want the change.

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#41 Megavideogamer
Member since 2004 • 6554 Posts

Playstation 1/PSone the original grey CD based console. That launched Dec 4th 1994.

I do remember when playing videogames on disc was a huge deal. There was CD based gaming before Dec 4th 1994. but Sony was the first to make a go of a CD based gaming console.

With Disc videogames become larger in scope/amibition. Plus cheaper for the comsumer.

As much as I like cartridges they were expensive.

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nameless12345

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#42 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

@doubutsueki

Well, maybe development of it slowed down as Nintendo became increasingly aware over time that the battle against CD-ROM was essentially a lost cause due to the much cheaper manufacturing of CDs and the vastly larger storage capacity they offered?

I think it has to do with cartrige space increase over time (a 64DD disk held up to 64 meg data which is equal to the biggest N64 carts) and the market divide the add-on would cause. They didn't even support the memory expansion in many games due to fear of loosing potential costumers (even Rare didn't make Conker and Banjo-Tooie support the Exp. Pak even tho they would both benefit from it).

Well, you didn't have to manufacture your own N64 carts if you had a ROM copier device - while not wide-spread, they existed all along for the NES and SNES. If game cart prices were high - and we all know they were for the N64 - it would inevitably make copiers more desirable for people. Of course, it would've also required the N64 itself to be desirable. But yeah, copying PlayStation games turned into something quite cheap and accessible for many people over time, and the console was extremely popular. I'm even thinking that the ease and affordability of mod chips and blank CDs for burners may have contributed to it's success over the N64.

The option for easy piracy undoubtly sold many PS1s (especially in countries with less strict rules regarding piracy) and it's true that despite the piracy PS1 hardware and game sales were thrieving. Sony was skilled in advertising and they advertised the PS1 everywhere they could, hence great sales. Piracy on the N64 was problematic to say the least. It was the complete opposite to Famicom which is easily the most pirated console out there (most pirate games and hardware clones comming from China).

I'd say they've made inroads into a new market, one that Sony and Microsoft has started to try to cater to as well, as the Wii with it's motion controls turned out to be a commercial success.

I agree that they're not in a position to compete head-on, that is part of the reason why they took the turn that they did with the Wii, they wanted, and still want, to create a space within the market for a niche console with games that - even if they can be ported to the other consoles, will not play the same as on their console.

True, Nintendo always made hardware specifically for their games. For example the N64 pad was made with Mario 64 in mind. The downside was just that some other types of games didn't work too well with their controllers.

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#43 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

I think it must also be mentioned that PC gaming back then was a lot different than today. There were a lot of different home computers and the PC we know today was rather lackluster. It was all about Commodore (Amiga and C-64) and Atari ST back then. It wasn't untill the early 90s when the PC wiped away all other home computers (due to superior hardware capabilities).

doubutsuteki

By PC I meant Personal Computers as opposed to consoles - IBM clones don't have a trademark on that word. :P

Yes, however the IBM compatible PC we know today was much worse back in the 80s. It had poor sound (speaker only) and graphics (CGA). Things changed with the introduction of the Sound Blaster and VGA graphics chipsets.

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#44 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

NES or N64. People seem to forget that after the introduction of the N64, the reaction to the analog stick was quite negative. Gamers didn't want the change.

Heirren

Yet when Sony slapped two analoge sticks on their PS1 pad it quickly became the standard :P

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#45 Emerald_Warrior
Member since 2008 • 6581 Posts

Playstation 1/PSone the original grey CD based console. That launched Dec 4th 1994.

I do remember when playing videogames on disc was a huge deal. There was CD based gaming before Dec 4th 1994. but Sony was the first to make a go of a CD based gaming console.

With Disc videogames become larger in scope/amibition. Plus cheaper for the comsumer.

As much as I like cartridges they were expensive.

Megavideogamer

Not the original. The first mainstream popular one, sure, but not the first. Turbo-CD, Jaguar-CD, Sega CD, CD-i, Neo-Geo CD, 3DO.

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#46 nameless12345
Member since 2010 • 15125 Posts

[QUOTE="Megavideogamer"]

Playstation 1/PSone the original grey CD based console. That launched Dec 4th 1994.

I do remember when playing videogames on disc was a huge deal. There was CD based gaming before Dec 4th 1994. but Sony was the first to make a go of a CD based gaming console.

With Disc videogames become larger in scope/amibition. Plus cheaper for the comsumer.

As much as I like cartridges they were expensive.

Emerald_Warrior

Not the original. The first mainstream popular one, sure, but not the first. Turbo-CD, Jaguar-CD, Sega CD, CD-i, Neo-Geo CD, 3DO.

Ironically all of the mentioned were flops :P (with the possible exception of Sega CD which sold surprisingly well for a hardware add-on but still not enough to be regarded as a success).

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doubutsuteki

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#48 doubutsuteki
Member since 2004 • 3425 Posts

I think it has to do with cartrige space increase over time (a 64DD disk held up to 64 meg data which is equal to the biggest N64 carts) and the market divide the add-on would cause. They didn't even support the memory expansion in many games due to fear of loosing potential costumers (even Rare didn't make Conker and Banjo-Tooie support the Exp. Pak even tho they would both benefit from it).nameless12345


Possibly an instance of Nintendo having learnt a lesson from Sega.

The option for easy piracy undoubtly sold many PS1s (especially in countries with less strict rules regarding piracy) and it's true that despite the piracy PS1 hardware and game sales were thrieving. Sony was skilled in advertising and they advertised the PS1 everywhere they could, hence great sales. Piracy on the N64 was problematic to say the least. It was the complete opposite to Famicom which is easily the most pirated console out there (most pirate games and hardware clones comming from China).



Maybe in the case of the N64 it had less to do with piracy being hard and more to do with the console being much less popular than both the NES and the PlayStation - and that it was only relevant for a brief time period in comparison.

True, Nintendo always made hardware specifically for their games. For example the N64 pad was made with Mario 64 in mind. The downside was just that some other types of games didn't work too well with their controllers.



Yeah, but controls on the Wii are a long shot from the analog stick on the N64 controller. Most of the games on the NES, SNES and N64 would have played fine even if they would have sounded and looked different on the competing consoles - with the exception of some of the games developed specifically for the N64, as it was the most capable 3D system for it's generation. Nintendo aren't advancing anything in the field of hardware these days - aside from what I personally consider to be gimmicks; that's turned out to be Sony's and Microsoft's struggle.

Yes, however the IBM compatible PC we know today was much worse back in the 80s. It had poor sound (speaker only) and graphics (CGA). Things changed with the introduction of the Sound Blaster and VGA graphics chipsets.



Natually, it was thousands of times worse in every respect; I'm well aware of it. I was talking about the early computer games and the console games industries back then; I wasn't at all talking about IBM compatibles.

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#50 logicalfrank
Member since 2011 • 1686 Posts

I am going to say SNES just to be different and my reasoning therefor must also be different: the SNES was the first system w/ the very popular four button plus shoulder button scheme on the controllers. People go on about 3D graphics, media and online play but I think the controller desing has as big an impact on gaming as anything.