True Non-Linearity

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Mawy_Golomb

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#1 Mawy_Golomb
Member since 2008 • 1047 Posts

A couple of days ago, I watched a video of Rev Rant's (someone who works for Destructoid) that argued a very interesting point. Which games are truly non-linear? Most games that we associate with non-linearity are just set in huge worlds and they give you one or two ways to complete a mission. There really aren't enough choices left up to the player on how to play throughout the game. Usually games have linear gameplay wrapped around in a tortilla (as Rev Rant puts it) within a huge world that give an illusion of non-linearity. They are all pretty much scripted. And this is the biggest reason why they are not truly non-linear. So games like GTA, Infamous, and many others are not really non-linear at all.

If you want to hear more points made about non-linearity, check out Rev Rant's video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1rWkqTzOJ4

Then, after you're done watching, you can really put together your thoughts on what to expect from games, in terms of non-linearity.

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DOF_power

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#2 DOF_power
Member since 2008 • 804 Posts

He's completely right.

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TriangleHard

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#3 TriangleHard
Member since 2005 • 9097 Posts

Romance of the Three Kingdoms games.

Those are truly non-linear.

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NBSRDan

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#4 NBSRDan
Member since 2009 • 1320 Posts
Linear (video games): Allowing completion of the game only through one set sequence of player actions. Non-linear: Not linear; able to achieve the same or similar outcomes via multiple exclusive inputs. If a game has two or more possible paths for the player to take, then it is non-linear.
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TriangleHard

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#5 TriangleHard
Member since 2005 • 9097 Posts

Linear (video games): Allowing completion of the game only through one set sequence of player actions. Non-linear: Not linear; able to achieve the same or similar outcomes via multiple exclusive inputs. If a game has two or more possible paths for the player to take, then it is non-linear.NBSRDan

I guess FFVII was non-linear game then.

At beginning of the game, you can choose your path. Either take the stairs or take the elevator.

Anyone remember that?

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NBSRDan

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#6 NBSRDan
Member since 2009 • 1320 Posts

[QUOTE="NBSRDan"]Linear (video games): Allowing completion of the game only through one set sequence of player actions. Non-linear: Not linear; able to achieve the same or similar outcomes via multiple exclusive inputs. If a game has two or more possible paths for the player to take, then it is non-linear.TriangleHard

I guess FFVII was non-linear game then.

At beginning of the game, you can choose your path. Either take the stairs or take the elevator.

Anyone remember that?

Even if that is the only choice given to the player, the game is still technically non-linear, just to a very negligible degree.
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Ngakor

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#7 Ngakor
Member since 2009 • 38 Posts
[QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

[QUOTE="NBSRDan"]Linear (video games): Allowing completion of the game only through one set sequence of player actions. Non-linear: Not linear; able to achieve the same or similar outcomes via multiple exclusive inputs. If a game has two or more possible paths for the player to take, then it is non-linear.NBSRDan

I guess FFVII was non-linear game then.

At beginning of the game, you can choose your path. Either take the stairs or take the elevator.

Anyone remember that?

Even if that is the only choice given to the player, the game is still technically non-linear, just to a very negligible degree.

Technically, the very fact that you can choose to move a character left or right makes the game non-linear. At that point, your goal is the next step (or a general location), and you have multiple ways of getting to your goal. All games are non-linear, then, according to the definition.
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muthsera666

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#8 muthsera666
Member since 2005 • 13271 Posts
I think the question is how far people really want to go with the non-linear thing. To go truly, completely non-linear is to risk the elimination of any story line. Personally, at times I want a linear game that I can just march through and have fun, like watching a movie.
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196432160425370547874320627439

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#9 196432160425370547874320627439
Member since 2003 • 1739 Posts

I think the question is how far people really want to go with the non-linear thing. To go truly, completely non-linear is to risk the elimination of any story line. Personally, at times I want a linear game that I can just march through and have fun, like watching a movie.muthsera666
true... I actually sometimes feel overwhelmed in games when they are "non-linear" or to vast. I can remember not knowing who was someone I needed to talk to in Morrowind and getting annoyed wioth at times.

I am not sure completely non-linear would work well with people. You really nees kinda this glowing arrow saying "Major plot this way". I wonder what is the most non-linear game is and what a completely nonlinear game would be like. Endless Ocean is fairly nonlinear. Go explore, if you want do A,B, or C but it doesn't matter if you don't. But then it also seems to run into a being more of a pointless game rather than non-linear... Now there is a fine line to walk.

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LordAndrew

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#10 LordAndrew
Member since 2005 • 7355 Posts
True non-linearity does not exist in video games, and I'm not sure it can ever exist. At any given time there are certain actions you can perform, and the game reacts to those actions in a preset fashion. Plenty of games pretend to offer non-linearity, but they are still quite linear.
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TriangleHard

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#11 TriangleHard
Member since 2005 • 9097 Posts

True non-linearity does not exist in video games, and I'm not sure it can ever exist. At any given time there are certain actions you can perform, and the game reacts to those actions in a preset fashion. Plenty of games pretend to offer non-linearity, but they are still quite linear.LordAndrew

Play Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

Or Civilization.

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yohomes

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#12 yohomes
Member since 2007 • 134 Posts

civilization, age of empires, halo wars, all RTS games are non linear

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muthsera666

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#13 muthsera666
Member since 2005 • 13271 Posts

civilization, age of empires, halo wars, all RTS games are non linear

yohomes
Considering that they all have mission objectives, I think the direction of the thread would say that they aren't really completely non-linear. I could be misunderstanding, though.
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NBSRDan

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#14 NBSRDan
Member since 2009 • 1320 Posts
[QUOTE="NBSRDan"][QUOTE="TriangleHard"]

I guess FFVII was non-linear game then.

At beginning of the game, you can choose your path. Either take the stairs or take the elevator.

Anyone remember that?

Ngakor
Even if that is the only choice given to the player, the game is still technically non-linear, just to a very negligible degree.

Technically, the very fact that you can choose to move a character left or right makes the game non-linear. At that point, your goal is the next step (or a general location), and you have multiple ways of getting to your goal. All games are non-linear, then, according to the definition.

Indeed, you could argue that, and you present a very convincing argument. The term "linear" is thus irrelevant, atleast if the definition I gave is accepted. What we really mean then when we say "linear" is "linear on a large scale". There may be (analogy) a thousand possible ways to cross a room, but if crossing that room is a key plot-point in an unalterable story, or the only way to unlock new content, then the game is still considered linear.
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Deadly_Fatalis

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#15 Deadly_Fatalis
Member since 2006 • 1756 Posts
True non-linearity is an impossibility. If I was able to do absolutely anything I want, I could easily destroy the entire story. I could kill every important NPC, thus ending any possible way of continuing the story.
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Mawy_Golomb

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#16 Mawy_Golomb
Member since 2008 • 1047 Posts

You might be right, Deadly_Fatalis, but then again, you might be wrong. There is a game being developed by David Braben's (creator of Elite) game developer Frontier Developments that is called The Outsider. It promises to truly be a next-gen game and to take games to a whole new direction by pushing procedurally-generated content to the next level, making an unscripted storyline possible (without any cut scenes at all), along with perhaps the most unscripted AI and animations that you have ever seen. It will also be an open-world game, except that it is more of a fugitive style game rather than a game like GTA.

As for whether or not games should be non-linear, I really like this direction. It would be nice for games to finally be able to tell a story without cut scenes at all, making games take a step forward just like movies did after the silent film era, which contained no voice-overs and text for people to read to understand what was going on.

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190586385885857957282413308806

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#17 190586385885857957282413308806
Member since 2002 • 13084 Posts
Any game that has a beginning and an end is not truly non-linear. games such as RTS's still have the same things you have to do to get to the next stage, it's just up to you on how you do them and in the end you're treated to the same ending as everyone else. I'd say a game like Morrowind is non linear because you could break the game by killing any quest giver but still continue playing the game doing whatever you want. Also The Sims, SimCity and the like are non linear games because these games leave it up to the person to do whatever they want, however they want and the games never end until a person is satisfied with the outcome.