Turn based games "Outdated?"

Why is it that so many people nowadays consider turn based games to be outdated? And/or just not suitable to anything except low budget handheld games. You basically never see AAA console turn based games anymore because they always get criticized. And companies like Square Enix are just afraid to do it anymore. Even the remake for FFVII is just going full action despite it's turn based roots.

Turn based offers a completely different kind of challenge then action. And it is can be just as fun and valid. Depending on preference. And plenty of people still clearly like them when you look at how well games like Pokemon still sell today. And the Bravely Default games seem very well liked as well. But when the idea of one being in a big budget console game arises people are just like "No, it's outdated." Makes no sense.

Yes, it's been around for a while. But so have 2D platformers, and they are still very popular. The new Donkey Kong Country and 2D Mario games still get plenty of praise and sales. Why the hatred for turn based games? They are just different styles that provide different kinds of fun.

Because most people want action games.

I know I do.

You need to get a PC bro. Tons of turn based games on there all the freaking time and their is a huge community for such games on there. It never was that popular of a genre on consoles. Some nowadays have dynamic turn based combat and elevation effects. Then if you add the last 20 years worth of turn based games that are still playable and aged well on modern hardware either free or from GOG or Steam then say bye to your family and friends. Just hoard up on food and toilet paper.

Personally I don't mind the genre but I just tend to suck at them, just never was good at managing a party and I get frustrated when they all die forcing me to lose quite a bit of work.

Yeah, I realize they still get made. Like I said they are sill fairly big on handhelds too. My point was just their status on consoles.

"It never was that popular of a genre on consoles." Not true. SNES and PS1 were filled with them. The most popular Final Fantasy games came out then, and there were plenty of other developers cashing in on the popularity.

Gamers who feel that way are generally narrow-minded, and incapable of being entertained by anything outside of traditional First and Third Person video games.

I really miss turn based combat in mainstream RPGs. Pretty much the only place you'll find it there days is in TRPGs like Valkeria Chronicles. Even the Final Fantasy series which was famous for turn based combat hasn't made a truly turn based game since FFX/X-2. Real time combat systems like in the Symphonia games or Star Ocean were fun at first but I miss the strategy you got with true turn based systems like in the old FF games.

There are still a few games out there like this. Hoepfully Persona 5 will keep something of the old combat system when it comes out.

-Byshop

It more they do not like those type of game and refuse to see what turn base games can do that other games just can not.

@Byshop: FFX/X-2 are turn base but I would not call FF9 as turn base. There is a problem with real time battle and deep role playing games. In the Tales of * games I most just spam attacks to win.

turn-based tend to be games for "enthusiasts", and enthusiast gamers tend to game on PC. As a result, PC tends to get a lot/most of the turn-based games out there. The upcoming XCOM 2 is a perfect example of this.

Console gamers, for better or worse, tend to like action games and immediate gratification, i.e. they don't care to spend a few minutes setting up a perfect move when they can just spray-and-pray for a few seconds with a gun. That's not to say consoles don't get turn-based games, it just seems they are limited to JRPGs and games that end in "Tactics" or something.

*please note my generous use of the word "tend", as in I am not saying anything is absolute. Just an observation, if anything.

I personally love turn based games, but only if I'm really on the mood for them, as they do end up eating a lot of play time, no pun intended. There's something relaxing and tense about then all at once, and I don't think other types compare.

You can try Divinity Origin. Its a turn base RPG that is available on consoles. And the good news is that they are working on a sequel so, not everyone has abandoned turnbase games.

Yeah this makes me sad as well, I'd love to see more AAA turn-based RPGs on consoles as well. Recently got Divinity: Original Sin for the Xbox One, looking forward to playing that. I really want to see a turn-based JRPG too.

only turned based game i know of next year is X-com 2. Probably some others also but who knows. I love turn based games if done right. Civilization V and Jagged Alliance 2 are probably my favourite ones.

The Elemental games (ignore the 1st though) on PC are amazing and turn-based.

Hmm. I don't know; I enjoy turn-based strategy games. From city builder/4X to turn-based RPGs they're all pretty dope.

I still like playing my old Heroes of Might and Magic games.

All the Pokemon handheld games I played, Turn based battles does it well.

They do seem to be going out of vogue, but hopefully enough developers realize many of us really enjoy turn-based mechanics in a number of genres!

They've actually made a big comeback on PC in recent years. It's the AAA/mainstream market which has pretty much completely abandoned them, as they don't see it profitable if they're not moving millions and millions of units.

Maybe they need to look at their own over inflated budgets and stop wasting so much money on marketing, fancy cutscenes, ect.. and they wouldn't need to try and appeal to everybody from little Sarah to grandmas to make their money back (and then some, of course)

As far as it being considered 'outdated'...

People who claim such things are usually much more close-minded than those they accuse of being “stuck in the past”.

Dragon Quest 11 :D

@bussinrounds: Do you really thinking they would spend that much money if they do not need to?

I agree it more of them not liking a game type and try to say it is out of date because of that.

@wiouds: Of course they would. They're spending it trying to get that mass appeal/really big #$

@bussinrounds said:

@wiouds: Of course they would. They're spending it trying to get that mass appeal/really big #$

Are you telling me they will be reckless with their budget a clearly bad business practice while trying to do what they see as a good business practice?

@wiouds: That is the main reason THQ went bankrupt.

I think THQ went bankrupt because they did not take the busniess practice of the other companies while trying to meet the demands of gamers.

@quietraven: Saying turn based games are out-dated is like saying games like Chess, Checkers, Poker, ect. are dead. It's just not true.

Will turn based games sell 8-12 million copies worldwide like the CoD and AC's of the industry? No, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be made or that they can't be profitable.

Turn-based video games are some of my favorite games, be it X-Com, Civilization, Pokemon, RPGs, ect. Hell i play a lot of Madden and even that is somewhat turn based if you think about it (you take turns on offense one play at a time).

We're in a strange time in gaming where there is no mid-tier developers other than what is kick started or Firaxis. THQ went belly up. Most games are made by EA, Activison, 2k games, Ubisoft and their numerous subsidiaries.

If shooters weren't so damn popular, we might see other genres make a comeback, but most "gamers" are of the casual variety and they don't want deep games sadly.

@csward: The worse part is the mindset of many that game that are not fast pace are bad.

TBS combat has a chess-like allure to it that values calculated actions, planning, and questing, that action based games can never hope to achieve.

Real time play will always value fast reflexes above all else, which is something that, just like almost every other aspect, is hard to find dominating a big industry like ours.

In the end, there are only trends, nothing really dies out. What's been absent for 5 years can easily make a comeback and gets regarded as unique and refreshing. Genres don't really die, they just get trends and/or fade out thereafter. Some take longer than others, for sure.

Are they dead or outdated? NOOOOOOOO

What is actually happening is that the casual market really does not like it. Turn Based games do not have mass appeal. So in comparisons, they tend not to sell a lot in comparison to games that have mass appeal. The companies who try to make turn based game tend to make budget that rival those that have huge appea

@quietraven: I think that something that is interesting about the concept of a game is that it does not need to serve a cultural purpose other than that of the game itself.

A twentieth century philosopher, Ludwig Von Wittgenstein, thought that the idea of a game could not be bounded thus anything could be a game. Wittgenstein says, "For how is the concept of a game bounded? What still counts as a game and what no longer does? Can you give the boundary? No." This is a fascinating thought that says games are boundless.

An intriguing aspect of philosophy is that the many philosophers throughout history disagree greatly about a variety of subjects. One such philosopher, in contrast to Wittgenstein's views on a game, is Bernard Suits. Suits says in his book, "The Grasshopper," that any game can be defined by four traits.

The traits are the following:

1. Pre-lusory goal

2. Constitutive Rules

3. Lusory Attitude

Also:

4. Voluntarily overcoming unnecessary obstacles

The pre-lusory goal is some predetermined illusion, an imaginative framework to complete a task or series of tasks that is not based on reality. Next, there are rules that represent the system within which the framework can be instantiated like one goal, at least one player, and a ball with points granted to the player(s) each time the ball reaches the goal with a defined ultimate point amount as the win state. Furthermore, the lusory attitude is something that the potential player is required to have in order to play the game; a playful attitude. Finally, a voluntary commitment to overcome unnecessary obstacles is important because something is not a game if it is forced, but rather that would be conscription.

Another interesting, bounding concept of a game is by Johan Huizinga in his book called "Homo Ludens" or "The Playing Man." In it, Huizinga introduces the concept of "The Magic Circle."

Here is a visual representation:

Real world.........^ Real world

Real world <(Game)> Real world

Real world........ v Real world

There is an imaginary boundary for a game which is isolated from the rules of the real world.

That said, if we consider the views of Wittgenstein, Suits and Huizinga for the purposes of identifying what is a game, a game being outdated is nonsensical. One plausible counterargument follows from Wittgenstein's assertion in that a game is unable to have boundaries thus time is not a limiting factor for game longevity. If utilizing either Suits or Huizinga's views of game design, games are only identified by the aforementioned characteristics at the very least thus depreciation as an art form is not a fundamental aspect of a game. I agree with the reasoning of all three of these individuals.

In business terms, if you want turn-based strategy games to continue, I would recommend communicating with the developers who design and develop games that you enjoy. You can act as a player and continue purchasing their content, but you can also give them feedback in the form of fan mail or surveys when the opportunity is available. There are many other ways that you can show your support as well. That said, it is important to recognize the financial importance of sustainable returns on investment. Products that are innovative in ways competition is not, players like, and will pay for are seen as worth both producing and utilizing as a model for future products. This most likely shall be approved by a sponsor. In contrast, a product that is not innovative, players dislike, or shall refrain from paying for is likely seen as something worth forgoing producing. It may be utilized as a learning tool, but probably not much more than that. Today, cost of video game production can vary widely with many costing millions of dollars. There are cost estimations and actual cost, and earned value. If there is not enough earned value, future products and the team developing them are unable to have financial support, so companies close.

In my view, no game design is inherently outdated granted future iterations can build from a base foundation, but that is the case for every game. A false analogy would be that alchemy became outdated when chemistry was invented as the methods were inherently at odds and the scientific method has shown that one is superior to the other through trial and error. However, games do not have a superior descendant. Even video games are a part of the broader category of games which includes board games, card games, etc.

No more "outdated" than the shooter formula.

What that means is certain posters just don't like it, so they make up something stupid to say. Much like anything and everything on the internet, all things are complained about, so you can ignore the noise.

Several gaming websites and writers seemed to unanimously agree that Turn based combat is now "Outdated", Yet a good amount of Gamers seem to either not mind the mechanic and in some cases wish for it's return to certain games.

Cause clearly if you look at games like XCom : Enemy Unknown, Civilization, Shadowrun Returns, Wasteland 2, Turn based combat isn't exactly shunned by gamers.

I love me some hot turned based action.

Dated but not dead...

I personally really enjoy turn based games, but like it or not, the masses would see a turn based game as extremely dated and developers can't afford to make big budget games for the minority.

Action games and the like appeal to a much larger audience than turn based games imo, game publishers are interested in making money and they know the only way to do that is to sell the game to as many people as possible. If I told my friend that the square button hits than it is a lot easier to comprehend and grasp than giving them a menu of commands.

I don't think that the system is necessarily outdated as many rpgs still use it, but I think to appeal to a wider audience developers are changing the way games play. Turn based may work for established franchises with a strong base (Persona) or on indies have more creative freedom in how the game is played.

WTB FF Tactics Sequel.