'Wait, Mario and Luigi are different colors?' - Colorblindness & Gaming

One thing that's been a bit of an annoyance for me as a gamer is the fact that I'm color blind, and there are many games out there that don't really take into account my condition when making color choices, namely in the usage of the colors red and green.

An article on Ars Technica addresses this matter, and on how not too many developers actually tend to do stuff about it. Of particular note is how it mentions games that are very color reliant (like puzzle games), and how gamers like myself are left in a problematic spot when the only indicator between different tiles are color.

The article is nice because it has a few visual examples of what something would look like to a color blind person, though I found some really nice examples over on this page for those of you who don't quite realize how someone like me might percieve things:

Color blindness examples (the second column shows how someone like me would perceive things...I figured this out because the far left and middle columns look identical to me. :P)

While there are varying levels of intensity of color blindness out there, from my understand, most people who are color blind are typically red-green colorblind, like myself. No, this doesn't mean that I can't tell that Mario wears Red, and Luigi wears Green...but it does mean that certain shades of red and green (as well as colors that use subtle shades of red or green in them) are hard for me to distinguish. Examples of this in context include not being able to really easily tell that the column in Rock Band was, in fact, red in color (though the red on the drum pad was fairly easy to distinguish), or being unable to tell the difference between various colors in games like Puzzle Bobble or Puzzle Quest, where I have to rely on the shapes within the different tiles/spheres to tell what to do.

At any rate, how many of you all on the boards here are color-blind as well, or at the very least, what are your thoughts on this matter, and what should developers do to address the matter, if anything?

One thing that's been a bit of an annoyance for me as a gamer is the fact that I'm color blind, and there are many games out there that don't really take into account my condition when making color choices, namely in the usage of the colors red and green.

An article on Ars Technica addresses this matter, and on how not too many developers actually tend to do stuff about it. Of particular note is how it mentions games that are very color reliant (like puzzle games), and how gamers like myself are left in a problematic spot when the only indicator between different tiles are color.

The article is nice because it has a few visual examples of what something would look like to a color blind person, though I found some really nice examples over on this page for those of you who don't quite realize how someone like me might percieve things:

Color blindness examples (the second column shows how someone like me would perceive things...I figured this out because the far left and middle columns look identical to me. :P)

While there are varying levels of intensity of color blindness out there, from my understand, most people who are color blind are typically red-green colorblind, like myself. No, this doesn't mean that I can't tell that Mario wears Red, and Luigi wears Green...but it does mean that certain shades of red and green (as well as colors that use subtle shades of red or green in them) are hard for me to distinguish. Examples of this in context include not being able to really easily tell that the far left column for the drums in Rock Band was, in fact, red in color (though the red on the drum pad was fairly easy to distinguish), or being unable to tell the difference between various colors in games like Puzzle Bobble or Puzzle Quest, where I have to rely on the shapes within the different tiles/spheres to tell what to do.

At any rate, how many of you all on the boards here are color-blind as well, or at the very least, what are your thoughts on this matter, and what should developers do to address the matter, if anything?

Thats pretty shocking.

Admittedly, color blindness is one of those things I've never thought about for more than 2seconds. I had no idea that the differences could be that dramatic. Just like with subtitles for the hearing impaired, color blindness should definitely be something developers are cognizant of.

they should have a color blind option to eliminate most of the problemsqwertyoip

[QUOTE="qwertyoip"]they should have a color blind option to eliminate most of the problemsSkylock00

well as in civilization, they have/had an option to tell you whose borders are whose, (besides color)

well as in civilization, they have/had an option to tell you whose borders are whose, (besides color)

qwertyoip

That's not something i've ever thought about, i guess they could add some setting to use a different colors palette.

Makes me think about something btw...In the MGS4 scheenshots with the green tint they are using, does that make it look all grey to you ?Tykain

When it comes to the screen shots I've check out on GS recently, is that the characters stand out really, really blatantly from the backgrounds, as they're the only aspects of the game that seem to have any sort of vibrant colors (Notably the more vibrant green/brown found on a number of the character's outfits). The backgrounds, from what I've seen, simply seem like a wash of the same greenish tint, just at various levels of light/dark.

That's not something i've ever thought about, i guess they could add some setting to use a different colors palette.

Makes me think about something btw...In the MGS4 scheenshots with the green tint they are using, does that make it look all grey to you ?Tykain

I swear I couldn't tell that there was a green tint on the stuff before you mentioned that. :P

When it comes to the screen shots I've check out on GS recently, is that the characters stand out really, really blatantly from the backgrounds, as they're the only aspects of the game that seem to have any sort of vibrant colors (Notably the more vibrant green/brown found on a number of the character's outfits). The backgrounds, from what I've seen, simply seem like a wash of the same greenish tint, just at various levels of light/dark.

[QUOTE="Tykain"]That's not something i've ever thought about, i guess they could add some setting to use a different colors palette.

Makes me think about something btw...In the MGS4 scheenshots with the green tint they are using, does that make it look all grey to you ?Skylock00

I swear I couldn't tell that there was a green tint on the stuff before you mentioned that. :P

When it comes to the screen shots I've check out on GS recently, is that the characters stand out really, really blatantly from the backgrounds, as they're the only aspects of the game that seem to have any sort of vibrant colors (Notably the more vibrant green/brown found on a number of the character's outfits). The backgrounds, from what I've seen, simply seem like a wash of the same greenish tint, just at various levels of light/dark.

Not all screenshots have that green tint. This screenshot for exemple looks like you're watching through green glasses. Do you see that one all grey or ?

[QUOTE="Tykain"]That's not something i've ever thought about, i guess they could add some setting to use a different colors palette.

Makes me think about something btw...In the MGS4 scheenshots with the green tint they are using, does that make it look all grey to you ?Skylock00

I swear I couldn't tell that there was a green tint on the stuff before you mentioned that. :P

When it comes to the screen shots I've check out on GS recently, is that the characters stand out really, really blatantly from the backgrounds, as they're the only aspects of the game that seem to have any sort of vibrant colors (Notably the more vibrant green/brown found on a number of the character's outfits). The backgrounds, from what I've seen, simply seem like a wash of the same greenish tint, just at various levels of light/dark.

Not all screenshots have that green tint. This screenshot for exemple looks like you're watching through green glasses. Do you see that one all grey or ?

Not all screenshots have that green tint. This screenshot for exemple looks like you're watching through green glasses. Do you see that one all grey or ?

Tykain

One thing to remember about colorblind people like myself is that we can actually see all the main colors alright, so normally it's not like we see red or green as having no color at all. It's simply when we start getting to colors that are close in tone/intensity, but vary in hue between red and green, that we have a hard time distinguishing between the two.

For example, for me, a dark forest green can look, at times, the same as a brown color of the same darkness, and some shades of blue and purple are almost impossible for me to distinguish easily between.

If you want to get a rough idea of how some of these images might look to someone like me, download the image, then run it through this web app, using the deuteranope setting. This will give you a rough idea of how it should look to me, and hopefully give you a better idea of what I'm talking about/what it means to be color blind. :)

Not all screenshots have that green tint. This screenshot for exemple looks like you're watching through green glasses. Do you see that one all grey or ?

Tykain

One thing to remember about colorblind people like myself is that we can actually see all the main colors alright, so normally it's not like we see red or green as having no color at all. It's simply when we start getting to colors that are close in tone/intensity, but vary in hue between red and green, that we have a hard time distinguishing between the two.

For example, for me, a dark forest green can look, at times, the same as a brown color of the same darkness, and some shades of blue and purple are almost impossible for me to distinguish easily between.

If you want to get a rough idea of how some of these images might look to someone like me, download the image, then run it through this web app, using the deuteranope setting. This will give you a rough idea of how it should look to me, and hopefully give you a better idea of what I'm talking about/what it means to be color blind. :)

For example, this is what the web app did for the picture you gave me:

Here's the original (hopefully!)

And here's how it would look for someone like me ( I can't tell if they're different. :P):

[QUOTE="Tykain"]

Not all screenshots have that green tint. This screenshot for exemple looks like you're watching through green glasses. Do you see that one all grey or ?

Skylock00

One thing to remember about colorblind people like myself is that we can actually see all the main colors alright, so normally it's not like we see red or green as having no color at all. It's simply when we start getting to colors that are close in tone/intensity, but vary in hue between red and green, that we have a hard time distinguishing between the two.

For example, for me, a dark forest green can look, at times, the same as a brown color of the same darkness, and some shades of blue and purple are almost impossible for me to distinguish easily between.

If you want to get a rough idea of how some of these images might look to someone like me, download the image, then run it through this web app, using the deuteranope setting. This will give you a rough idea of how it should look to me, and hopefully give you a better idea of what I'm talking about/what it means to be color blind. :)

When i run that mgs screenshot through the web app, it looks grey-yellow.

Anyways, i think i understand what you mean on how you perceive the colors. And thanks for bringing that up btw, i find it interesting specialy because i'm a software developer and color blind people is not something i ever thought about when making an app and i suppose the use of certain colors in the interface could possibly be an issue for you. As long as there is no red text on a green background or something like that it should be fine tho i guess.

I have a question:

can you play CoD4?

i mean with night vision?

Yeah, I'm red/green colourblind too (though I have no idea what exact form). I hate those online examples because I can never see anything, or they all look the same. It's like having it rubbed in some more. :P

My biggest gaming gripe is Hexic, though, since the game becomes unplayable once bombs show up. I cannot tell the difference between the green and the yellow bombs to save my life. Nice that they offered a psuedo-colourblind option to put symbols on the regular pieces, but I don't know who didn't bother doing the same for bombs. My eyes are not selectively broken.

Perfect Dark Zero has one of the most extensive options for colourblindness that I've seen - you can change the default red/green for enemies and allies to a couple of different shades, alter the colours entirely, or make allies white and enemies red. I like the vibrant red/green, myself, since it pulls them far enough apart in shade that I can tell the difference between them without having to stare and think.

I think it was Jeff who also brought up colourblindness and Space Giraffe, suggesting that maybe colourblind people had an easier time focusing on the important stuff in the game - which would make sense, since we've had to adjust to missing certain rods and have compensated for lost colour by using shapes and patterns instead. I find it fairly easy to break down the components of Space Giraffe because I'm not paying much attention (if any) to colour, just movement and shape.

I have a question:

can you play CoD4?

i mean with night vision?

qwertyoip

Red/Green color blind people /can/ see Green just fine. Remember, the problem with color blindness is perceiving differences between colors easily, particularly in certain shades of red/green, or colors that contain certain shades of red/green.

Actually, I did think about this before, and how it must be very lame. Of course, knowing my friend is color-blind back when Halo 2 came out, I made a point of making the team colors red and green every now and again just to mess with them, because then he had no idea who anybody was if they didn't have the icon over their head. Hilarious consequences came swiftly!

This is a very interesting topic Skylock, like most i never really gave it any thought. Those pictures you posted, its a giant different. To most of us one is clearly green, the other is all brown. But you say you can see all the colors fine, so say you look at grass, you see pure green as we would see it?

dvader654

One interesting side result of having color blindness, though, is that there are some situations where a color blind person can see things more easily than one who isn't. Case in point being in this vision test. (Care of this website) Supposedly, you can only see the number in this picture if you are colorblind. Furthermore, supposedly there's been some studies of where a color blind person might be more capable of seeing things like camouflage than people with regular vision, because of how the color blind perceive some of the particular colors in camouflage against regular foliage.

So this vision test program isn't totally accurate. I took a picture of green grass and the other pictures comes out brown grass.

...

Thats all green

...

Thats all brown.

But thats not how it is when you are out. All this program seems to be doing in relation to green is turing greens into browns.

dvader654

That being said, green and brown are definitely two colors that are hard for me to distinguish, and upon first glance, the two pictures of grass that you showed above looked almost identical...but I can tell that the top picture is more vibrant in terms of being green...the bottom one just looks like a faded green to me, and not as much distinctly brown.

How'd you pick the color for your username if you're colorblind? Just randomly?zeppelin_64

How'd you pick the color for your username if you're colorblind? Just randomly?zeppelin_64

Sorry for the double post, but here's an interesting picture to add to how color blind people like myself see some colors (from this webpage): (for a reference of what I see things as, Dueteranope and the Original columns look the same to me. :P)

To describe what to look for, if you glance down to the 3rd/4th rows, to me, almost all of the color pairings in these rows look similar (That is - Dark Green/Brown, Dark Red/Dark Brown, Light Brown/Orange/Light Green), while to most of you, I suspect these are pretty distinctively different.

Below, in rows 5 and 6, the idea is that the colors of the left and middle column (red/green, yellow/yellow green) seem much more similar to us colorblind folk than the middle and right column (green/bluish green, yellow green/pale emerald), which appear to be completely different colors. The science behind this is that because of a weakness in either the red or green cones, color blind people compensate by getting more information from blue cones, which causes us to be a little more sensitive to blue tones in colors (which was part of the conclusion figured from the camouflage studies, IIRC)

I'm digging most of your responses, at any rate, folks, it's great talking about this stuff.

So when you step outside and look at grass you see real green but in a picture of that grass you wouldn't see it. Thats where I am having issues comprehending this whole thing. If I take a picture of something its going to look identical to what it is in real life, so I am trying to figure out how if I give you a picture of green grass you see it brownish but if you are outside you do see it green.

(the reason I am so curious is that green is my favorite color, I cant imagine not being able to see it all the time. For instance your game live sig is beautiful green, you see that right?)

dvader654

If you see something as green, then chances are I'll see it as green, too. However, some shades of brown might look the same as some shades of green, especially when we're talking about colors that aren't highly saturated to begin with (like the picture of grass you showed above).

Yeah, I know the VGL sig I have is green, but on the same note, the green of the sig, and the orange (I think) of the text link above that signature can look almost exactly the same to me colorwise...until I look at it long enough to distingish that the text above the sig picture is in fact more orange than anything else.

I think it was Jeff who also brought up colourblindness and Space Giraffe, suggesting that maybe colourblind people had an easier time focusing on the important stuff in the game - which would make sense, since we've had to adjust to missing certain rods and have compensated for lost colour by using shapes and patterns instead. I find it fairly easy to break down the components of Space Giraffe because I'm not paying much attention (if any) to colour, just movement and shape.

DJ_Lae

...then I start thinking about the possibility of some developer out there making a game where you play as a character who is color blind at one point, with the game rendering in a color scheme that matches what we see...well, I think that'd be spiffy, at any rate. :P

Skylocke I'm color blind too, I can't see a difference at all in those MGS4 pics, but I've never really had trouble playing games because of it...I play puzzle quest pretty good, even though I can never see someone who has the gilly suit on in COD4 if they move at all I'm on to them. I think being color blind has actually helped my hand eye coordination, even though that sounds sort of counterintuitive.

Edit: My blind spots, green/red; green/some yellows; purple/blue; some browns/some greens; darker greys/purples.

...then I start thinking about the possibility of some developer out there making a game where you play as a character who is color blind at one point, with the game rendering in a color scheme that matches what we see...well, I think that'd be spiffy, at any rate. :PSkylock00

That would be kind of cool, although it would be lost on us. :P

Though it would certainly make explaining colourblindness a lot easier, since visual examples work a lot better than verbal descriptions. I still don't think my girlfriend fully understands what my vision is like, which I think is part of the problem with games that have no colourblind people on staff - even knowing the logistics of missing one type of rod, it's impossible to create something that is fully safe for everyone. Though I'm constantly surprised that puzzle games insist on using such similar shades of yellow and green - even puzzle quest has horribly coloured pieces, since even with the aid of little symbols I still can't identify between yellow and green pieces as quickly as I can with any other pair of colours. I always wonder if there are any colourblind guys making games, or if we just play them.

There have to be, though, since it isn't a particularly rare condition.

Yeah I have the red/green thing going, and that makes a lot of games pretty annoying. Hexic is almost impossible for me to play correctly, I find myself just randomly clicking stuff to get through it.IZoMBiEI

[QUOTE="IZoMBiEI"]Yeah I have the red/green thing going, and that makes a lot of games pretty annoying. Hexic is almost impossible for me to play correctly, I find myself just randomly clicking stuff to get through it.VacantPsalm

One interesting side result of having color blindness, though, is that there are some situations where a color blind person can see things more easily than one who isn't. Case in point being in this vision test. (Care of this website) Supposedly, you can only see the number in this picture if you are colorblind. Furthermore, supposedly there's been some studies of where a color blind person might be more capable of seeing things like camouflage than people with regular vision, because of how the color blind perceive some of the particular colors in camouflage against regular foliage.

Skylock00

That really stinks and ive never thought about it. However i dont think developers should really do anything about it. You really arent missing that much with the puzzle games and other games that require color recognition. I mean ive never played them because there are just so many better games out there.

Though telling characters apart from the background and teammates in games like cod and stuff is one large downside. I dont see how devs could do anything about that though.

Uh, isn't it a 5? I can see that no problem and I'm not color blind... Or at least I don't think so.:? VacantPsalm

Here's the original:

And here's how it looks like to me:

If these two don't seem different to you, then you might actually have some form of colorblindness that you aren't aware of. *shrugs* At any rate, what you did in your sig isn't too cruel, but I can't tell the difference, anyways.

That really stinks and ive never thought about it. However i dont think developers should really do anything about it. You really arent missing that much with the puzzle games and other games that require color recognition. I mean ive never played them because there are just so many better games out there.

Though telling characters apart from the background and teammates in games like cod and stuff is one large downside. I dont see how devs could do anything about that though.

expandingeye

As for the other stuff...yeah, that's where it gets tricky.

I was playing around with that picture program, I took a screenshot of Zelda: WW and this is what came out.

Please tell me thats not how you saw Zelda; WW.

dvader654

I was playing around with that picture program, I took a screenshot of Zelda: WW and this is what came out.

Please tell me thats not how you saw Zelda; WW.

dvader654

It looks normal to me, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say yes.

[QUOTE="dvader654"]

I was playing around with that picture program, I took a screenshot of Zelda: WW and this is what came out.

Please tell me thats not how you saw Zelda; WW.

HiResDes

It looks normal to me, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say yes.

My God...

Really though, it's like all the color has been sucked out of the game. Then again, I guess that's why they call it color blind. All that picture is is browns and blue in the pot and sky. I remember that game being filled with vibrant colors. Dude, you missed out on how awesome that game looked.

My God...

Really though, it's like all the color has been sucked out of the game. Then again, I guess that's why they call it color blind. All that picture is is browns and blue in the pot and sky. I remember that game being filled with vibrant colors. Dude, you missed out on how awesome that game looked.

AtomicTangerine

In fact, I can almost guarentee you that even though the difference wouldn't be as blatant as it is for you guys, if you showed me the original picture before it was processed, I could tell that the green is more vibrant.

If these two don't seem different to you, then you might actually have some form of colorblindness that you aren't aware of. *shrugs* At any rate, what you did in your sig isn't too cruel, but I can't tell the difference, anyways.

Skylock00