When playing SRPGs ...

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hakanakumono

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#1 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

... Are you able to accept permanent character death? There seem to be quite a few SRPGs that employ this, and I have a hard time stomaching it. I'm currently playing through a Saturn game called Terra Phantastica. I went through a mission brilliantly in it's inception, but towards the end I lost a character. I have a replacement, but there's part of me that wants to restart the mission and go through it again. Even though I have a replacement that's practically identical.

Does character death bother you? I'm trying to push forward, but I'm having to fight the urge to redo the mission and complete the game with all characters alive just because it bothers me so much.

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blazblue152

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#2 blazblue152
Member since 2010 • 880 Posts

yeah i hear you, i lost a great character in valkyria chronicles and moved on for two chapters only to see myself loading my save data to get her back. i highly encourage you to redo the mission if it really bugs you.

you may get over it but you may also feel unsatisfied after completing the game. i say play it safe ;)

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hakanakumono

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#3 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

yeah i hear you, i lost a great character in valkyria chronicles and moved on for two chapters only to see myself loading my save data to get her back. i highly encourage you to redo the mission if it really bugs you.

you may get over it but you may also feel unsatisfied after completing the game. i say play it safe ;)

blazblue152

Valkyria Chronicles had perma death? Wow, I don't remember that. Terrible.

I think I'm going to go ahead and playthrough. I did already redo a battle when two of my other characters died though. This particular character was easily replacable and I wasn't particularly fond of the character (even though she's less annoying than her counterpart). Good advice, but this time around I don't think it'll ruin my experience too much, especially when there will continue to be new characters to employ and replace with (I've recently reached a point where there's a limit on how many units I can move into battle).

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gamefree2

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#4 gamefree2
Member since 2006 • 2073 Posts

When playing Fire emblem I always want all my characters to survive.

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yokofox33

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#5 yokofox33
Member since 2004 • 30775 Posts

I can't stand character death. I'll always redo a mission or load previous save data. I like to keep my party intact from beginning to finish.

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Ceraby

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#6 Ceraby
Member since 2009 • 3306 Posts

Hate character deaths. Didn't like it when I first played Prince of Persia on DOS, still don't like it in games up to now. It's very frustrating. Especially if the save game you have is soooo far off from what you already finished.

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rawsavon

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#7 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts

When playing Fire emblem I always want all my characters to survive.

gamefree2
I will ALWAYS replay the mission in FE games if someone dies My favorite series BTW
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QuistisTrepe_

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#8 QuistisTrepe_
Member since 2010 • 4121 Posts

Whether its Ogre Battle or FFT, it adds higher stakes to the game and I sort of like this feature. I wish more SRPGs would use it.

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Byshop

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#9 Byshop  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 20504 Posts

Valkyria Chronicles had perma death? Wow, I don't remember that. Terrible.

I think I'm going to go ahead and playthrough. I did already redo a battle when two of my other characters died though. This particular character was easily replacable and I wasn't particularly fond of the character (even though she's less annoying than her counterpart). Good advice, but this time around I don't think it'll ruin my experience too much, especially when there will continue to be new characters to employ and replace with (I've recently reached a point where there's a limit on how many units I can move into battle).

hakanakumono

Yup. If a character loses their HP in Valkyria they fall on the field. If you reach your character with any other unit they are removed safely from the field but if an enemy reaches your fallen unit then they are permanently killed.

Personally I love perm death. I seek out games that have this as a feature. I live the idea that there are consequences to my actions and if I win a battle that I need to weigh the pros and cons of whether or not the victory was worth the losses before I continue.

-Byshop

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QuistisTrepe_

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#10 QuistisTrepe_
Member since 2010 • 4121 Posts

Personally I love perm death. I seek out games that have this as a feature. I live the idea that there are consequences to my actions and if I win a battle that I need to weigh the pros and cons of whether or not the victory was worth the losses before I continue.

Byshop

Goodness forbid gamers are actually forced to utilize strategy in a SRPG.

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Byshop

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#11 Byshop  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 20504 Posts

Goodness forbid gamers are actually forced to utilize strategy in a SRPG.

QuistisTrepe_

I just like the idea that there are degrees of victory. Without perm death most SRPGs boil down to "did I win or did I lose?". When you spend over an hour playing one battle of an SRPG I like to think that the aftermath of all that time and effort spent works out to more than "can I go on or do I have to do that one over?"

Perm death forces you to think about whether or not going on is worth it. The first time I lost a character in Valkyria Chronicles was in a particularly difficult battle that it took me several attempts to beat. When I finally finished it having lost one of my sniper characters I debated whether or not it was worth replaying that whole battle just for the chance to keep her alive. I decided that it was way too much of a pain in the buttocks and that she was worm food. I shed a single tear for my good friend what's-her-name and boldy charged forward.

In general, I'm just a big fan of games that have consequences. I'm an old school gamer (I turn 34 this year) and I remember when games were actually hard, if not brutally unfair to the player. I loved Steel Battalion for this. One save slot per pilot ID that you have no manual control over. You fail to eject from your mech before it explodes and you DIE and have to start over. Even if you eject, if you do it too many times and can't afford a new mech you are screwed and have to start over.

-Byshop

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Xenogears_Rocks

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#12 Xenogears_Rocks
Member since 2009 • 712 Posts

It doesn't bother me yeah it's sad and bothersome but if you think about it in some games some of the main characters do die so you learn to deal with it. I just enjoy playing games with many different out comes so yea

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Byshop

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#13 Byshop  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 20504 Posts

Just to clarify on this thread, the discussion is around games in which characters in which individual characters can die as a result of your performance in combat and cannot be revived. We aren't really referring to games where some characters may die as a part of the story (most games) or a game where you can die and you have to restore a save or hit continue (almost all games).

-Byshop

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hakanakumono

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#14 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

I don't know if I like the feature. It does "force" the player to strategize (because they can't just throw units to die at the enemy), but at the same time it's a pretty severe punishment for the smallest of mistakes. I like the idea, but I'm not sure I like redoing missions.

In any case, Terra Phantastica for the Saturn is a pretty good game.

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gamefree2

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#15 gamefree2
Member since 2006 • 2073 Posts

[QUOTE="gamefree2"]

When playing Fire emblem I always want all my characters to survive.

rawsavon

I will ALWAYS replay the mission in FE games if someone dies My favorite series BTW

You my good sir have a great taste for quality games.

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Byshop

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#16 Byshop  Moderator
Member since 2002 • 20504 Posts

I don't know if I like the feature. It does "force" the player to strategize (because they can't just throw units to die at the enemy), but at the same time it's a pretty severe punishment for the smallest of mistakes. I like the idea, but I'm not sure I like redoing missions.

In any case, Terra Phantastica for the Saturn is a pretty good game.

hakanakumono

It depends on how ok you are with less than a perfect record. In VK when I lost Lieutenant Wormfood I was kinda bummed at first but I had about half a dozen other snipers to replace her. If the death of said unit cripples your ability to move forward then I agree that's needlessly harsh.

-Byshop

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Pvt_r3d

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#17 Pvt_r3d
Member since 2006 • 7901 Posts
I absolutely can not lose any of my characters in a game like that. I grow "attached" to the characters I grind with.
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AjarnLenny

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#18 AjarnLenny
Member since 2009 • 260 Posts

[QUOTE="rawsavon"][QUOTE="gamefree2"]

When playing Fire emblem I always want all my characters to survive.

gamefree2

I will ALWAYS replay the mission in FE games if someone dies My favorite series BTW

You my good sir have a great taste for quality games.

It sucks when characters die, especially in games that has such a strong storyline as Fire emblem has as you get a feel for the characters. For example, I couldn't care less which one of my generals that'd die in Romance of the three kingdoms (Nes) because there's no story to back-up the characters. In Fire emblem the engrossing tale makes you want to keep the characters (Although many of them don't actually DIE, they are still a part of the story etc. but still).

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hakanakumono

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#19 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

Well, false alarm. I had to run an errand in hell and found my fallen friend there, so I picked her up on the way along with the dry cleaning.

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Daavpuke

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#20 Daavpuke
Member since 2009 • 13771 Posts
No. All my characters need to stay alive, otherwise I feel like a failure. It makes playing fire Emblem a chore, but permanent death is unacceptable!
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gamefree2

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#21 gamefree2
Member since 2006 • 2073 Posts

No. All my characters need to stay alive, otherwise I feel like a failure. It makes playing fire Emblem a chore, but permanent death is unacceptable!Daavpuke

Really? I find keeping all my characters in Fire emblem quite easy. Unless there's fog.

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rawsavon

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#22 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
[QUOTE="AjarnLenny"]

[QUOTE="gamefree2"]

I will ALWAYS replay the mission in FE games if someone dies My favorite series BTWrawsavon

You my good sir have a great taste for quality games.

It sucks when characters die, especially in games that has such a strong storyline as Fire emblem has as you get a feel for the characters. For example, I couldn't care less which one of my generals that'd die in Romance of the three kingdoms (Nes) because there's no story to back-up the characters. In Fire emblem the engrossing tale makes you want to keep the characters (Although many of them don't actually DIE, they are still a part of the story etc. but still).

That makes the games BETTER IMO. ...a real sense of loss, trying to keep them all alive. The game would be totally different if you just got them back the next mission...would totally change the way people play it. It would not be as enjoyable IMO
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Ceraby

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#23 Ceraby
Member since 2009 • 3306 Posts

I absolutely can not lose any of my characters in a game like that. I grow "attached" to the characters I grind with.Pvt_r3d

I know what you mean. The npc's used in strats even have names on them. I can't stand the thought of mage "Florabel", a mage I worked with from level 1, dead, even though mage " Selena ", a character I've never used before, is just as fine.

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raahsnavj

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#24 raahsnavj
Member since 2005 • 4895 Posts

[QUOTE="Daavpuke"]No. All my characters need to stay alive, otherwise I feel like a failure. It makes playing fire Emblem a chore, but permanent death is unacceptable!gamefree2

Really? I find keeping all my characters in Fire emblem quite easy. Unless there's fog.

In most cases. There is always the case where you know you can take a hit, but there is a 1-3% chance they will crit your character... that sucks when it happens. I also end up killing people when I'm trying to grind everyone instead of just playing with the 3 or 4 chars that are awesome. You are right though, there are ways to play FE that are extremely low risk. On topic, every time someone dies, I have to restart the map...
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Eikichi-Onizuka

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#25 Eikichi-Onizuka
Member since 2008 • 9205 Posts
I don't mind perma death being in the game but I do start the battle over if a character dies.
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Fragnarok

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#26 Fragnarok
Member since 2004 • 204 Posts

I always liked the way FFT handled it. You have two to three rounds to save them, and even if they did die you may have the chance to give their abilities to someone else.

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maxx1458

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#27 maxx1458
Member since 2004 • 1275 Posts

I love it personally. It really makes you get more attached to your characters and adds weight to your decisions.

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hakanakumono

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#28 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

I always liked the way FFT handled it. You have two to three rounds to save them, and even if they did die you may have the chance to give their abilities to someone else.

Yarvem

Yeah that was pretty nice.

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BlackendV

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#29 BlackendV
Member since 2007 • 1929 Posts
I lost a character in Valkyria chronicles and felt a bit annoyed, so when I went on to play Fire emblem I made sure everyone survived. Which I believe was harder to do than in VC.
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Mr_Cumberdale

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#30 Mr_Cumberdale
Member since 2004 • 10189 Posts
It depends. I feel like reloading a battle despite losing a character is 'cheating', so I don't really like perma-death. Sometimes I really like the feature, other times I hate it when I forgot I had a character spawned and he dies - especially when I spent like 15+ hours on the character.
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shutdown_202

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#31 shutdown_202
Member since 2005 • 5649 Posts

Well, false alarm. I had to run an errand in hell and found my fallen friend there, so I picked her up on the way along with the dry cleaning.

hakanakumono

:lol: what game is this? sounds awesome.

It bugs me, although im not a heavy player of SRPG. I did redo 2 missions in Valkyria Chronicles because of it but im glad the game has a 3 turn save feature. Get to them in time and theyre safe. A character died for me almost every mission and if it didnt have the 3 turn thing i dont think i could see myself redoing alot of the missions.

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hakanakumono

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#32 hakanakumono
Member since 2008 • 27455 Posts

[QUOTE="hakanakumono"]

Well, false alarm. I had to run an errand in hell and found my fallen friend there, so I picked her up on the way along with the dry cleaning.

shutdown_202

:lol: what game is this? sounds awesome.

It bugs me, although im not a heavy player of SRPG. I did redo 2 missions in Valkyria Chronicles because of it but im glad the game has a 3 turn save feature. Get to them in time and theyre safe. A character died for me almost every mission and if it didnt have the 3 turn thing i dont think i could see myself redoing alot of the missions.

Terra Phantastica. Except it's ridiculously easy for you to die in this game, even for the main character who is some sort of a god. Enemies are basically evenly matched in terms of power and the AI knows how to cheat the system just as well as you do.

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kingdavid562

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#33 kingdavid562
Member since 2010 • 1173 Posts

i cant go on with some one dead.. everyone has to be alive.. even if the game is really, really, really hard i still have to keep them alive..