Where the hell is all the water?

Something that has completly puzzled me for many years, is that interaction with water in video games has rapidly decreased. There are awfully few games within the past five years that allow you to go underwater, and usually it's completly unnesecary to do so, or it's just such a small portion of a level that it's pointless. Unless you're name is Mario, water segments have pretty much become extinct.

Not even in a game like Bioshock, was there one section of which the water was beyond knee deep apart from the begining where you couldn't chose to go underwater. Most noticable game series with less and less water are: Half Life (1 was full of it), Metroid Prime (1 and 2 had some very creative segments, but 3 had NO deep water), Unreal Tournament (2003/4 and 3 have very little), Quake (1, 2 and 3 had it, but Quake 4 barely), Doom (You could never go underwater because of the limited technology, but it vanished anyway), Sonic (No more underwater in the 3D games), Tomb Raider (Ok the underwater segments were poorly done, but you get the idea).

Unless the game is God of War or Mario, water is evaporating from all games. New games don't have them, and continued games don't have them. What the heck gives?

Maybe because water effects are taxing on the hardware, especially like in Bioshock where the water is gorgeous. Water is also hard to get right and can take some time to programme. Another reason is that good gameplay invovling water take some amount of thinking. Those are that I can think of.syafiqjabar

It's taxing when you look at it from above, but when you're in it, all you need is some fog effects. Slight Post procesingworks wonders aswell, and there's no need to go completly next-gen over the top. I would be fine if we stuck with the Quake underwater effect which looks like this:

Play GTA SA, GTA VCS, or GTA IV. You can swim forever in these games. Or play Kingdom Hearts and go to Atlantica. :)

Most games w/ water interaction are adventure games.

I don't have a current gen console and don't pkay PC games so I don't know any games w/ water interaction in it except GTA IV.

Play GTA SA, GTA VCS, or GTA IV. You can swim forever in these games. Or play Kingdom Hearts and go to Atlantica. :)

Most games w/ water interaction are adventure games.

I don't have a current gen console and don't play PC games so I don't know any games w/ water interaction in it except GTA IV.

skp_16

But thats more because the water is totally necessary. There really would be something wrong if there was "Invisible walls" blocking you from the water, like there are in many other games. I've noticed it happen pretty much in every single First Person Shooter, and it's just bizare.

Did any underwater segments not suck?Power_Wrist

ecco the dolphin is the only game that comes to mind

[QUOTE="skp_16"]

Play GTA SA, GTA VCS, or GTA IV. You can swim forever in these games. Or play Kingdom Hearts and go to Atlantica. :)

Most games w/ water interaction are adventure games.

I don't have a current gen console and don't play PC games so I don't know any games w/ water interaction in it except GTA IV.

WizzyKid

But thats more because the water is totally necessary. There really would be something wrong if there was "Invisible walls" blocking you from the water, like there are in many other games. I've noticed it happen pretty much in every single First Person Shooter, and it's just bizare.

Water interaction are not for FPS. I can't think of any FPS were you can swim or at least a half-body deep water.

Maybe because most underwater segments aren't fun. Why would a developer include them if they generally aren't fun?

If they do make it fun, then fairly heavy investment in art and design would have to be done on water segments. In order to maximize their investment in time for water level design, they'd have to use it in more and more places. Underwatre provides some heavy design challenges due to limtied visibility, visual distortions, and lack of "stuff" that can only be put on the water's floor.

It seems more trouble than what its worth and best to place the time in somewhere else.

[QUOTE="WizzyKid"][QUOTE="skp_16"]

Play GTA SA, GTA VCS, or GTA IV. You can swim forever in these games. Or play Kingdom Hearts and go to Atlantica. :)

Most games w/ water interaction are adventure games.

I don't have a current gen console and don't play PC games so I don't know any games w/ water interaction in it except GTA IV.

skp_16

But thats more because the water is totally necessary. There really would be something wrong if there was "Invisible walls" blocking you from the water, like there are in many other games. I've noticed it happen pretty much in every single First Person Shooter, and it's just bizare.

Water interaction are not for FPS. I can't think of any FPS were you can swim or at least a half-body deep water.

battelfield 2?

I'm glad.

With a handful of exceptions (that I can't think of offhand) water segments are awful. Compared to regular gameplay you move slower, sometimes have changed (and awkward) controls and are forced to deal with enemies that are not subject to the same constraints as you, which makes fighting them or avoiding them all the more frustrating. Plus, time limits creep in in the form of air meters.

Recently, Ninja Gaiden 2 had a couple of water segments, and they sucked.

For some of the worst ones that I can remember offhand:

-Sonic. Sonic games are all about speed. The water levels completely go against this and turn Sonic into a sluggish, floaty mess with tiny lungs.

-Jak 2. Dear god. Worst water level(s) ever? I think so.

-Mario Sunshine. Did anyone honestly think that cleaning a large fish's teeth while flailing around with crappy underwater controls and collecting coins to breathe was a good idea? Mario's 3D incarnations make water travel painful enough, but having to scrub teeth was as insulting as it was awkward. At least the game's ocean looked good.

Tomb Raider, any. Take your pick. All the water segments suck as the controls go weird and Lara can't hold her breath for more than about ten seconds.

Did any underwater segments not suck?Power_Wrist

The original Metroid Prime had a great underwater segment.

Other than that, not much else comes to mind.

Water interaction are not for FPS. I can't think of any FPS were you can swim or at least a half-body deep water.

skp_16

Have you played an FPS that's not come out in the past 5-6 years? I gave a good few examples in my first post, and I always thought for those specific games (apart from tomb raider of course) that they had very fun underwater segments. One of the original Unreal Tournament maps had you assualting an underwater base, and you'd start from a submarine(?) and find your way in through multiple entrys. Another one had somewhat hidden underwater passages which allowed for sneaky travel to the otherside of the map.

-Mario Sunshine. Did anyone honestly think that cleaning a large fish's teeth while flailing around with crappy underwater controls and collecting coins to breathe was a good idea? Mario's 3D incarnations make water travel painful enough, but having to scrub teeth was as insulting as it was awkward. At least the game's ocean looked good.

DJ_Lae

Mario sunshine had clumsy controls altogether. That particular level was rather poor, but there were other sections I enjoyed. The first game and Super Mario Galaxy had great controls, and really cool looking underwater levels which were fun to play.

[QUOTE="skp_16"]

Water interaction are not for FPS. I can't think of any FPS were you can swim or at least a half-body deep water.

WizzyKid

Have you played an FPS that's not come out in the past 5-6 years? I gave a good few examples in my first post, and I always thought for those specific games (apart from tomb raider of course) that they had very fun underwater segments. One of the original Unreal Tournament maps had you assualting an underwater base, and you'd start from a submarine(?) and find your way in through multiple entrys. Another one had somewhat hidden underwater passages which allowed for sneaky travel to the otherside of the map.

I'm not an FPS fan. I've only played 3 FPS in so far...doom 1, counter strike, and MoH 1.

Well I find the water in Oblivion to be beautiful. However, with all of the graphics involved in reflections, ripples, and what not, water can drastically reduce quality gameplay.

Well I find the water in Oblivion to be beautiful. However, with all of the graphics involved in reflections, ripples, and what not, water can drastically reduce quality gameplay.

IzzyMaiden

Well, water never used to be such a computer hog. They can surely find ways to make water less texing.

Did any underwater segments not suck?Power_Wrist

:lol:

I hate to say it, but I think this is pretty much /thread

I hate the slow movement and that oxygen bar that runs dry (no pun intended).Black_Knight_00

Well if it was a pun, it would of been a very good one indeed.

I don't mind the occasional underwater level now and then, but it is true that many, many gamers hate underwater levels with a passion, and that it is very difficult to do it right. 8 out of 10 times, underwater areas where you have to find oxygen every 30 seconds are more annoying than fun.

The last 2 games that in my opinion had very atmospheric and nicely designed water levels were MGS2 and Mario Galaxy.

I've played hundreds of games with water in them. But very few made you interact underwater. In fact, the only shooter I can remember offhand with an underwater level was NOLF. And it was very well done; the sharks and the speargun were excellent.

Then there have been many games where you interact on the water. Most recently within the past year has been GTA IV (and by far the best looking water I have seen on a console) and Crysis.

I would say because as another poster said water effects are taxing on the hardware, expensive to invest in, and to be honest a waste of time.

Don't get me wrong, I love realistic water and I frown on those games that lack it. However, I would rather developers spend more time making a good game rather than allowing you to play with the fishes.

[QUOTE="WizzyKid"][QUOTE="skp_16"]

Play GTA SA, GTA VCS, or GTA IV. You can swim forever in these games. Or play Kingdom Hearts and go to Atlantica. :)

Most games w/ water interaction are adventure games.

I don't have a current gen console and don't play PC games so I don't know any games w/ water interaction in it except GTA IV.

skp_16

But thats more because the water is totally necessary. There really would be something wrong if there was "Invisible walls" blocking you from the water, like there are in many other games. I've noticed it happen pretty much in every single First Person Shooter, and it's just bizare.

Water interaction are not for FPS. I can't think of any FPS were you can swim or at least a half-body deep water.

Turok: Dinosaur Hunter. N64

Something that has completly puzzled me for many years, is that interaction with water in video games has rapidly decreased. There are awfully few games within the past five years that allow you to go underwater, and usually it's completly unnesecary to do so, or it's just such a small portion of a level that it's pointless. Unless you're name is Mario, water segments have pretty much become extinct.

Not even in a game like Bioshock, was there one section of which the water was beyond knee deep apart from the begining where you couldn't chose to go underwater. Most noticable game series with less and less water are: Half Life (1 was full of it), Metroid Prime (1 and 2 had some very creative segments, but 3 had NO deep water), Unreal Tournament (2003/4 and 3 have very little), Quake (1, 2 and 3 had it, but Quake 4 barely), Doom (You could never go underwater because of the limited technology, but it vanished anyway), Sonic (No more underwater in the 3D games), Tomb Raider (Ok the underwater segments were poorly done, but you get the idea).

Unless the game is God of War or Mario, water is evaporating from all games. New games don't have them, and continued games don't have them. What the heck gives?

WizzyKid

The inside the spaceship part of Crysis controlled like you were underwater, if they could just take that and just say that you are underwater then they'd have something.

Personally I love me some underwater action, it sort of mixes things up. I thought Half Life 1 had some decent water sequences, as did 2.

In almost all games I hated water-levels or sections.Mario,sonic,mgs 2...I´m not too sad about this trend.