Why Do 2D Fighting Games Still Exist?2

I truly appreciate the art direction and overall quality of the Street Fighter series, Marvel VS Capcom, but as a fighting game
fan i just can't wrap my mind around the flat 2D universe. It seems so unnecessarily restrictive in terms of gameplay, appeal,
and overall enjoyment for a fighting game.

Depsite the above I actually bought SSF II recently, and even though i enjoy and appreciate the game I keep saying to myself
how much better and complete this game would be if it would just adapt to a 3D 360 degree fighting universe. Same thing for the
incredible looking upcoming Marvel V Capcom.

I don't mean to offend purists, i just hate to see these great games hampered by antiquated fighting game design for no other reason
but that it's part of the franchise...

2D does have some good points that 3D games does not. 3D games can have bad camera angle from time to time.

You would be surprised as to how technical 2D fighters like street fighter can possibly get. If you watch SF tournaments and stuff, it's pretty amazing.

I find the restriction of 2d gameplay in fighting games a lot more enjoyable than free roaming 3d games. I will still enjoy 3d fighting games though.

2D fighting is just more fun to me, I think nearly all 3D fighting games have horrible camera angle

Because their is a following for these types of games just significant enough and resistant enough to that kind of fundamental identity changing that you want that they are worth making games for. I'm not a huge fighting game guy myself, but I appreciate what the 2d games bring, while also appreciating a game like Dead Or Alive 4, (and other fighters like it) both types of games bring something unique to the table, and I wouldn't want every fighting game to be like on or the other. If you want an open fighting game that isn't on a 2d plane, you don't want Street Fighter, BlazBlue, or King of Fighters. Go pick up DOA4, Soul Calibur 4, or Tekken 6 instead. Simple as that. Honestly, I wouldn't be paying any attention to MVC3 if it wasn't on a 2d playing perspective. It's just the way the series is meant to be played.

Better for these developers to make new IPs that go that route, than force that change on a long running series, and risk destroying it's identity and pissing off long time fans.

You would be surprised as to how technical 2D fighters like street fighter can possibly get. If you watch SF tournaments and stuff, it's pretty amazing.

ThePerro

[QUOTE="ThePerro"]

You would be surprised as to how technical 2D fighters like street fighter can possibly get. If you watch SF tournaments and stuff, it's pretty amazing.

mushi799

You would be surprised as to how technical 2D fighters like street fighter can possibly get. If you watch SF tournaments and stuff, it's pretty amazing.

I think that 2d fighters have terrible graphic quality. They are pointless to play when their are other 3d fighting games that are just as good and look way better.

I think that 2d fighters have terrible graphic quality. They are pointless to play when their are other 3d fighting games that are just as good and look way better.

melted831

thanks for the input! seems like the 2D fight game fans are very loyal which proves why
these franchises are so enduring:)

Some have noted poor angles but that has more do to with programming imo.
Fighting in a 360 degree universe will put one in odd angles at times.
MK Deadly Alliance wasn't exactly a flop btw (GS – 8.1) personally I thought it played
fairly well.

Again I'm not saying that publishers should abandon the 2D model in favor of 3D/360 altogether, I just
Feel these franchises are short changing themselves by the restrictions of placed on a fighting game
In a 2D environment. There is so much more realistic complexity and strategy that can be achieved in
A 3D fighting game despite some poor translations.

Also I think a point worth noting is that these franchises are fairly established with competitive players
having their skill sets deep rooted into the 2D platform. I don't think they're willing to throw that all away
To try a 3D version of their favorite game and developers don't want to lose CA$H.

Can't tell if OP is serious. But to wrap it up -analog stick being used to walk around takes away depth from the special attack motions/jump. -camera angles suck, and isn't that fun anyways when everybody is running around all willy nilly -2D keeps it simple to block high/low attacks, as well as dish out high/low attacks. -2D gives a fun metagame by being able to jump over fireballs etc. lolJordo321

what did i write that gave you the impression that this was a hoax?

Just because some of the translations of 2D to 3D were poor doesn't mean that any fighting game franchise
has to resign itself to a antiquity platform indefinetly.

The fans like it, because they have an emotional attachment to the game and it works for them.

What i'm hearing from people on here sounds alot like: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
that kind of mentality doesn't necessarily drive game developers to make superior products nor
challenge them to evolve.

i'm hearing from people on here sounds alot like: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" that kind of mentality doesn't necessarily drive game developers to make superior products nor challenge them to evolve.NC15

I totally agree. 2D fighting games need to just stop. It's fun for what it is but I think its time to somehow incorporate some sorta new way to do it. Soul Calibur has done a good job slowly upgradeing the 2D effects. I still enjoy side scrollers thow...But I have never been into fighting games so I guess I can't say to much...

I totally agree. 2D fighting games need to just stop. It's fun for what it is but I think its time to somehow incorporate some sorta new way to do it. Soul Calibur has done a good job slowly upgradeing the 2D effects. I still enjoy side scrollers thow...But I have never been into fighting games so I guess I can't say to much...

Yajarobi

[QUOTE="Jordo321"]Can't tell if OP is serious. But to wrap it up -analog stick being used to walk around takes away depth from the special attack motions/jump. -camera angles suck, and isn't that fun anyways when everybody is running around all willy nilly -2D keeps it simple to block high/low attacks, as well as dish out high/low attacks. -2D gives a fun metagame by being able to jump over fireballs etc. lolNC15

what did i write that gave you the impression that this was a hoax?

Just because some of the translations of 2D to 3D were poor doesn't mean that any fighting game franchise
has to resign itself to a antiquity platform indefinetly.

The fans like it, because they have an emotional attachment to the game and it works for them.

What i'm hearing from people on here sounds alot like: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
that kind of mentality doesn't necessarily drive game developers to make superior products nor
challenge them to evolve.

That's actually what people are saying, which is why series like Tekken, Soul Caliber, and Virtua Fighter are respected for what they are. However, there are positives and negatives to 2D and 3D fighting games, so there's no reason put 2D games out to pasture. Street Fighter IV was a great example of keeping the gameplay 2D but "modernizing" the graphics for the mainstream.

The time spent on makeing a 2D "fighting game". which im sure is a matter of hours anyway.Yajarobi

[QUOTE="Yajarobi"]The time spent on makeing a 2D "fighting game". which im sure is a matter of hours anyway.SteveTabernacle

almost every genre has "evolved" or become fully realized moving from the 2D to 3D enviroment.
i'm not going to bother rattling them off. Every generation of hardwarde expoits that genre's potential
even further into the 3rd dimension every time one is released. The fighting genre is one that has benefitted immensely by incorporating
3D/360 movement, just by the very nature of fighting itself. It sets up realistic scenarios that one would find in real combat.

I'm not saying i want to see the abolishment of the 2D fighter. It's obvious there is powerful market
and fanbase, that wouldn't be possible. SSF II is the first 2D fighter i ever purchased in my life so
that's how good a game i think it is, and I hate 2D fighters.

I don't want to see a half @ss attempt to convert it to 3D, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a better
fighting game if it incorporated 360 movement sucessfully. IMO it would.

peace.

[QUOTE="Jordo321"]Can't tell if OP is serious. But to wrap it up -analog stick being used to walk around takes away depth from the special attack motions/jump. -camera angles suck, and isn't that fun anyways when everybody is running around all willy nilly -2D keeps it simple to block high/low attacks, as well as dish out high/low attacks. -2D gives a fun metagame by being able to jump over fireballs etc. lolNC15

what did i write that gave you the impression that this was a hoax?

Just because some of the translations of 2D to 3D were poor doesn't mean that any fighting game franchise
has to resign itself to a antiquity platform indefinetly.

The fans like it, because they have an emotional attachment to the game and it works for them.

What i'm hearing from people on here sounds alot like: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
that kind of mentality doesn't necessarily drive game developers to make superior products nor
challenge them to evolve.

Because the notion of leaving 2D fighters in the past is rediculous.

You have to realize that 2D fighters, especially Street Fighter are deeper than you think, and COMPLETELY balanced around that perspective.

Look at Starcraft, would you want to change that formula? Hell no.

2D and 3D are COMPLETELY different types of fighters,I don't even think they should be compared in the first place. If you don't like 2D, go play a franchise that isn't, because Street Fighter is the Starcraft of 2D fighters.

2D fighters will have light punch, medium punch, heavy punch, light kick, medium kick, heavy kick, each with different hitboxes,high and low versions,frames to activate, invincibility frames, recovery... all of this is balanced accordingly, and this would all be too much to transition into a 3D fighters, especially when motions for special moves are taken into account (which keeps things precise). What I'm saying is 3D fighters are a whole other game.

Look at soul calibur

A Button - Guard (G)
B Button - Kick (K)
X Button - Horizontal Attack (A)
Y Button - Vertical Attack (B)

It's even gives a whole button just to block, where as 2D all you have to do is hold back, and leaves the complexity with fewer buttons.

This isn't to say 3D fighters can't be deep, but it's on a WHOLE OTHER LEVEL. Putting Street Fighter into 3D wouldn't be Street Fighter, it's like comparing Ikaruga to Star Fox (well, Star Fox is too simple for that comparison, but whatever)

almost every genre has "evolved" or become fully realized moving from the 2D to 3D enviroment.
i'm not going to bother rattling them off. Every generation of hardwarde expoits that genre's potential
even further into the 3rd dimension every time one is released. The fighting genre is one that has benefitted immensely by incorporating
3D/360 movement, just by the very nature of fighting itself. It sets up realistic scenarios that one would find in real combat.

I'm not saying i want to see the abolishment of the 2D fighter. It's obvious there is powerful market
and fanbase, that wouldn't be possible. SSF II is the first 2D fighter i ever purchased in my life so
that's how good a game i think it is, and I hate 2D fighters.

I don't want to see a half @ss attempt to convert it to 3D, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a better
fighting game if it incorporated 360 movement sucessfully. IMO it would.

peace.

NC15

It's the same thing with fighters. Once you understand what all has to be done to make a good 2D fighter, you'll see that you can't just take that and move it into 3D. A 3D fighter is a different animal, so bringing a 2D fighter mentality to the game design results in a poor game.

[QUOTE="NC15"]

almost every genre has "evolved" or become fully realized moving from the 2D to 3D enviroment.
i'm not going to bother rattling them off. Every generation of hardwarde expoits that genre's potential
even further into the 3rd dimension every time one is released. The fighting genre is one that has benefitted immensely by incorporating
3D/360 movement, just by the very nature of fighting itself. It sets up realistic scenarios that one would find in real combat.

I'm not saying i want to see the abolishment of the 2D fighter. It's obvious there is powerful market
and fanbase, that wouldn't be possible. SSF II is the first 2D fighter i ever purchased in my life so
that's how good a game i think it is, and I hate 2D fighters.

I don't want to see a half @ss attempt to convert it to 3D, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a better
fighting game if it incorporated 360 movement sucessfully. IMO it would.

peace.

MAILER_DAEMON

It's the same thing with fighters. Once you understand what all has to be done to make a good 2D fighter, you'll see that you can't just take that and move it into 3D. A 3D fighter is a different animal, so bringing a 2D fighter mentality to the game design results in a poor game.

See I don't look at it this way. I don't see why everything from a 2D fighter needs to be translated
Faithfully in the 3D fighter universe. What makes a 2D fighter "work" in 2D, doesn't work in 3D, and it doesn't have to to be faithfully represented in 3D.

Fighting by it's very nature, is done in the 3rd dimension with the ability to side step, side step and counter or
Get behind your opponent naturally (not by jumping over their head like a kangaroo).
You can tell me to go by UFC if I want a realistic fighter, but that's not the point here. There is a realism and an immersion factor that just can't be realized in 2D fighter.

the 2D fighter is a novelty imo. the SSF and Marvel vs Capcom series have great art direction and character design it's truly a shame
that they live in such a restricted world.

Why does everything have to be 3D?

For me:

2D gaming > 3D gaming

Man am I glad you're not in charge of the videogame industry.

We already have Soul Caliber and Virtua Fighter and more, leave my 2D fighters alone.

Most of the time taking a 2D fighting game and turning it into a 3D can be a disaster. MK: Deadly Alliance for instance. MK always worked better as a 2d game, giving the player another dimension just made it over complicated. Why have fireball moves if you can merely side step out the way? If SF was ever to go into 3D it would kill the series. 2D fighters have proven through the years that you don't need an extra dimension to revolutionize a series.dragonps

Fighting by it's very nature, is done in the 3rd dimension with the ability to side step, side step and counter or
Get behind your opponent naturally (not by jumping over their head like a kangaroo).

You can't shoot energy balls out of your hands, light your hand on fire and take off like a jet into the air, or teleport either.

The person that replied after me was explaining the exact same thing. 2D is a completely different gamethan 3D, there's no need for it to be merged into 3D because it would make it an entirely different GAME. It's like comparing 2D Mario, to 3D Mario. Sure, you jump over stuff, but is there a need to get rid of either? No, because they both contribute to the platform genre.

[QUOTE="dragonps"]Most of the time taking a 2D fighting game and turning it into a 3D can be a disaster. MK: Deadly Alliance for instance. MK always worked better as a 2d game, giving the player another dimension just made it over complicated. Why have fireball moves if you can merely side step out the way? If SF was ever to go into 3D it would kill the series. 2D fighters have proven through the years that you don't need an extra dimension to revolutionize a series.nini200

As other people have said, they are two different sub-genres under fighting games. Different tactics, different styles, different moves. Getting rid of 2D fighters is like getting rid of paper and saying writing on all six sides of a wooden cube would be better...

... i guess that analogy isn't appropriate, cuz i think i just called 3D fighters a block of wood. Not what i intended, but maybe you get the idea.

I think SFIII Third Strike's sprites and backgrounds are so good that they have 3d depth. Same with SSF2.

[QUOTE="ThePerro"]

You would be surprised as to how technical 2D fighters like street fighter can possibly get. If you watch SF tournaments and stuff, it's pretty amazing.

mushi799

Which is true, but don't forget, 3D fighters do have their time in the sun too, the best one being Virtua Fighter.

You can tell me to go by UFC if I want a realistic fighter, but that's not the point here. There is a realism and an immersion factor that just can't be realized in 2D fighter.NC15

Now here is what I don't get.... why is that a problem? Obviously if people are buying and playing 2d fighters, they don't care about this missing "immersion and realism" you cite, so they aren't missing out on anything. You don't play 2d fighters, so you aren't missing out on anything. This just seems like an incredibly pointless and circular discussion, as the original question was answered a long time ago. Frankly speaking, it did not need to be asked at all, as it, and all similair questions, all have the very same simple answer, "because their is an audience for it". If you like 2d fighters, play them, if you prefer 3d, play that. If you don't get why one or the other still exists, why even worry about it at all? You aren't playing them anyway.

I truly appreciate the art direction and overall quality of the Street Fighter series, Marvel VS Capcom, but as a fighting game
fan i just can't wrap my mind around the flat 2D universe. It seems so unnecessarily restrictive in terms of gameplay, appeal,
and overall enjoyment for a fighting game.

Depsite the above I actually bought SSF II recently, and even though i enjoy and appreciate the game I keep saying to myself
how much better and complete this game would be if it would just adapt to a 3D 360 degree fighting universe. Same thing for the
incredible looking upcoming Marvel V Capcom.

I don't mean to offend purists, i just hate to see these great games hampered by antiquated fighting game design for no other reason
but that it's part of the franchise...

NC15

[QUOTE="NC15"]

I truly appreciate the art direction and overall quality of the Street Fighter series, Marvel VS Capcom, but as a fighting game
fan i just can't wrap my mind around the flat 2D universe. It seems so unnecessarily restrictive in terms of gameplay, appeal,
and overall enjoyment for a fighting game.

Depsite the above I actually bought SSF II recently, and even though i enjoy and appreciate the game I keep saying to myself
how much better and complete this game would be if it would just adapt to a 3D 360 degree fighting universe. Same thing for the
incredible looking upcoming Marvel V Capcom.

I don't mean to offend purists, i just hate to see these great games hampered by antiquated fighting game design for no other reason
but that it's part of the franchise...

Temps567

Why do 2D fighting games still exist? Because people still enjoy them.

Switching to 3D from 2D isn't necessarily an evolution. Ask anyone who's played a Castlevania game if they prefer the 2D games or the 3D games. The answer might surprise you.

The new Mortal Kombat is going back to 2D gameplay (most likely due to SF4's success).

Don't get me wrong, I like 3D fighting games. VF5 is a favourite of mine; I played the hell out of Soul Calibur and Tekken 3 back in the day. I'm even open to the idea of a 3D Street Fighter, because I know that developers have been successful at making the transition to 3D from 2D games (perfect example is Metroid Prime). I would have no complaints if Capcom stuck with 2D for the duration of SF's lifetime. It was the 2D gameplay that made SF the juggernaut it is today. Why stop now?

3D makes running too easy, less punishment for being knocked down, the camera doesn't work as well, and most 3D fighting games have very little aerial combat.

2D fighting games still exist because nobody has been able to create a 3D game that is better. SC came close, but it just does not compare to SF2 or BB. In a 3D fighter you don't really have to be skilled to win against an experienced opponent, just run behind them and hit. The 2D fighters have far more depth in that in order to get tourney good you are pretty much required to learn your character 100%, not just one or two combos that work for you.

On top of that, 2D sprites look SO MUCH BETTER than their 3D counterparts ( I'm looking at you SF4, and cringing).

Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 is one of the most unique fighters coming out this year. Looking forward to this fighter alot. I loved the first one but hated that it had no online capabilities.

• Naruto Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 Trailer

King of Fighters XIII looks to bring the series back to where it's supposed to be as my #1 fighting series. With more characters and an actual story like a real KOF game, this will erase the memory of the horrible KOFXII.

• King of Fighters XIII Trailer

Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is going against it's roots and instead using full 3D animations instead of 2D hand-drawn sprites. The game looks incredible and had fans itching for it for 10 years, it's going to be spectacular. And to quote Deadpool "PINEAPPLES!"

• Marvel vs. Capcom 3 E3 Gameplay

Mortal Kombat is going in the direction Capcom went with SFIV by sticking to what works, this time heading back to it's roots with a brand new bloody M-Rated title. With new innovations such as the X-ray combos, fatalities, and brutalities I can't wait...

• Mortal Kombat Gameplay Interview (X-ray combos and Fatalities towards the middle of video)

As you can see my favorite genre is fighting games, so be it 2D or 3D - I'm all for fighters being on top of their game and quality(both in presentation and gameplay).

Looking forward to all of these and whatever fighters are coming out. And I do like 3D fighters, it's just that none of the ones I like are made anymore: Bloody Roar, Virtua Fighter, and Clay Fighter, j/k ;-P

bump for justice.

bump for justice.

AtlanticRock

For the record, KOF XII sucked. Lack of options and a very short roster doesn't make a quality fighting game. All I'm seeing here, with KOF XIII, is pretty much the same thing. SNK Playmore is just ramping up the visuals and trying to make it all the more exciting. In other words - all flash and no substance.

I'll pass.

[QUOTE="AtlanticRock"]

bump for justice.

Metamania

For the record, KOF XII sucked. Lack of options and a very short roster doesn't make a quality fighting game. All I'm seeing here, with KOF XIII, is pretty much the same thing. SNK Playmore is just ramping up the visuals and trying to make it all the more exciting. In other words - all flash and no substance.

I'll pass.

Becuase jumping should be done by pressing up crouching by pressing down and blocking by pressing the oposite direction of your enemy

3 on 3 is cool, but I wonder about it. If a game's called King of Fighters, one on one should be the main thing. If not, call it Kings of Fighters.BranKetra