Why is shooting people in games so fun?

You are thinking way too much into it - yet too little at the same time.

Thats kinda like saying that people who like Sim City are all closet urban planners. That might be the case for a tiny amount of people, but most players of Sim City find enjoyment in watching something they've made grow and expand in a logical manner - not that they wanted to secret become architects. To say that if we gave everyone a position of power to build a city, everyone would take it and nurture it to a succesful metropolis would be a stretch.

The aspect of a shooter is fast-paced competative gameplay with few rules to give a form of intuitive gameplay. Thats pretty much it.

Its design elements make it easy to have no-holds-barred wall-to-wall action or a slow, tactical approach to accomplishing goals. The actual subject matter, whether sooting people violently or "shooting" rainbows at flower has nothing to do with the actual design of the game, but that the typical video game demographic would find the latter lame and create poor sales.

If your real question is why is the violent one considered cool while the rainbow one lame, then thats a much deeper question and irrelevent in the context of games.

Any game can be fun, it's the media that draws attention to the one genre (successfully) puzzle games can be fun and challenging and so can fps they can involve tactics and situations to overcome but the fact it involves shooting suddenly makes that all the game is about? killing?

take worms for example no uproar about worms shooting each other but replace them with people and suddenly it causes most the problems in the world.

I see you argument as are people really savages who in a consequence free world would love to kill each other, there probably some that would and they might not be gamers. But we understand there games and violence is romanticised in books and on tv which makes it fun to role play a hero in a fps. Doesn't mean everyones a blood thirsty killer deep down.

When you say thats like people playing Sim City wanting to become city planners you are specialising in one example. I am not saying that playing Brothers in Arms makes you want to join 101st Airbourne Easy company. In fact I'm not saying the players want to become soldiers at all, or architects in sim games. What I am saying is that at the moment they pull the trigger in that game, or Half Life, or COD4 etc why is that entertaining for people?

Doesn't that strike you as odd?

And I think that popularity of shooters over Animal Crossing is human nature using games as the context if that makes sense. Like Jack Force says "Doesn't mean everyones a blood thirsty killer deep down".

Well I guess this is my point really lol.

Let me quote you:

COD4 revolves around you getting a kick out of shooting virtual enemies is kind of weird isn't it?hdhdhdhasajkalk

Thats like saying "Sim City revolves around you getting a kick out of slowly building a society to successful proportions is kind of weird isn't it?" Frankly, someone thats gets a kick out of that is pretty darn weird. Just as weird that somone finds enjoyment of virtually killing anything.

Few people enjoy the actual context of the games. People enjoy the mechanics of one. Context does have an effect on overall enjoyment, sure, but its not why people play games.

COD4 isnt fun because you're killing virtual people. Its because it provides fair, balanced, competative gameplay. Without any of the latter, no one would buy it and enjoy. We all kno that crappy FPS games still have the aspect of shooting people, but no one likes them cuz...well... their crappy. No one enjoys them.

So it doesn't strike me the least bit odd that CoD4 is very popular, nor does it strike me odd that, for example, The Sims is one of the most popular franchises ever despite its extremely mundane context.

As for the generally popularity of shooters over other games, i think theres several factors, none of which are really based on primal psychological urges. For starters its always been a generally fun genre but its only recently been getting its spotlight on consoles so many console only players are still in the "OMG this is so cool" phase. Since some have generally sold well sseveral companies follow suit. FPS are also one of the oldest genres so they've been getting some heavy polish and refinement while kind ofunpopular genres, like vehicle combat, aren't as well polished on average. FPS games just tend to be in higher quality than some other types of genres. Poeple like that and buy it.

It's just the thrill of being in a life or death situation, without any consequances. In reality, it's an extremely horrible experiance when you're in a life and death situation, and perhaps even more horrible for anyone watching. But games are different. You know you're not shooting real people, you know the people you shoot are like pawns on a Chess board.

It's like why do people ride on roller coasters; for the thrill of building up suspense as you climb up and then diving down at high speeds. Yet, you know it's safe. People won't go to a hilly area in their car and drive really fast up and down hills, because most likely you'll wreck your car and injure yourself.

Playing an FPS isn't going to make you want to go out and shoot people, because it's morally wrong (I strongly believe those that do play shooters, and feel like commiting murder, already had something that made them want to do so). When playing chess, your not going to suddenly leap onto a horse and slay people, or try and put the King in check. We just use real life examples as a basis for entertainment. Afterall, we need somewhere to start.

Anyway, wouldn't you be curious as to what it's like coping with the weapons in WW2 with M1 garands, and then the cool technology with modern weapons such as laser sights and night vision.

I do find shooting games to be satifying. Especially with pumped up sound on a surround sound system, bass-y explosions and gunshots coupled with nice muzzle flare, spraying blood and flying limbs really gives me a kick.

Wow, I just kind of disturbed myself.

But thinking in to it a bit more... I'm not satisfied with the killing. Or the blood. I don't feel the same way when slashing a sword at a virtual enemy, for example. Makes you think, eh?

Well I would say playing chess is more like playing Tetris then playing an FPS. The reason why I single out FPS is because you are consciously shooting people. Chess pieces are pieces of wood on a board; in a game you have ever more complex and life like characters.

Is an FPS really much different from real life? I mean sure as someone says you don't go to jail, and as you say "most of our lives lack any real conflict we have to find it someplace else". But you're not saying anything like "the soldiers I shoot in Call of Duty aren't real", you're saying the fact there is no consequence to shooting them or that we need to satisfy a need to kill whether in reality or virtual reality is what makes you play FPS games.

@Wizzy_kid concerning the thrill, both examples, mine and your car example give a thrill. The difference is one damages you, the other example damages or kills those around you. "Playing an FPS isn't going to make you want to go out and shoot people, because it's morally wrong": that's still not what I'm saying. What I am saying is even the 99.9% of us who sit there while the chainsaw cut scene plays in Gears of War and don't go and do it to our neighbours, laugh at it for the first time, second or third time: especially when its our friend we're chain sawing. That's not as bad as actually repeating the action we see, but as human beings who have suffered thousands of years of war and conflict, to take that and label it entertainment...shouldn't we be better then that?

@ Archangel so have we now accepted shooting people as sport? A team game? Is that right... I mean cricket, football, Tetris, chess, Forza motorsport etc are all good, competitive games: both virtual and real. But war is different: it certainly is in reality and I don't think anyone unless they were mad would suggest otherwise. So why, given the chance to, do we turn something so brutal and tragic as war into a form of entertainment and sport. And why do so many more people, me included, buy these games over Animal Crossing and really, really enjoy them? GAME has COD4 the label best game of all time. Of course its not, but the fact so many people enjoy it is weird.

So far we have established people enjoy shooting virtual Nazis etc...

a) Because killing people is a good team game

b) Because when you kill people in games there is no consequence

c) Because killing people in games is no different to taking a bishop in chess.

d) "Simple answer, cause it is fun"

e) Escapism.

The latter from Power_Wrist. The problem I have with this is that its difficult defining what escapism is. Its probably the same as point b in some respects: there is no consequence to your actions. But in other respects it's getting away from the boring aspects of real life. Still, the very fact that we choose to get away from real life, from society and civilisation, from family and friends in preference to killing people and entering and virtually reliving some of the most terrifying campaigns of war in human history and re creating them in a form of entertainment such as a video game is ironic surely?

None of the above I really see as substantial arguments, more excuses for the fact that we do enjoy killing when there are no consequences. And can I add I would have argued that killing virtual people is different to killing real people if someone else had started this. Hence I have run out of answers myself.

I wonder if the above categories are the only ones, or if there are more, and which gamers fit where.

I want to know the freaking point of this topic. Is it to justify something or explain something or what. Im about to go play an FPS and pretend all the people im killing are the topic creator.

It's about winning. When you kill someone, you win over that person. There's no need to speculate over man's ability to enjoy death and misery. It's just that simple.

I mean it was to make people stop and think, it was my thought for the day, and its always nice to hear people's opinions.

I am sorry if the Gamespot forums are not a democracy free for anyone to post what they like as long as it is games related, which obviously this is, and that I must explicitly state my reason of posting past the fairly self explanatory title and past curiosity for others opinions.

Some people like to discuss questions like these, if you don't, then just don't post. But when you ask what the point of this post is, can I ask you what you would like to prove by telling everyone you would like to shoot me in your videogame? Your bravado has little point, and as I stated in the first sentence of my first post makes you look like an idiot.

Perhaps the fact your intelligence doesn't stretch as far as providing an intelligent post, so why post at all?

Go and look at the discussions in this forum. If you feel this is a pointless thread, can I ask amidst the "how old were you when you first were addicted to videogames" and the ever popular "favourite" lists, what here is a thread with a point that hasn't been made before?

It's about winning. When you kill someone, you win over that person. There's no need to speculate over man's ability to enjoy death and misery. It's just that simple.

Benny_is_here

Thats what i thought.

Well i think its a pretty bad message that videogames give if they portray you as able to get away with murder.

Well i think its a pretty bad message that videogames give if they portray you as able to get away with murder.

hdhdhdhasajkalk

I think that each game has a different reason that it wants you to find for killing the people. In GTA, for example, Monetary Gain is usually the reason, in Call of Duty, Halo, ect. the reason is "saving the world". One might argue that Bioshock is the latter.

Thats actually a damn good question..

It just feels good.

You and your buddy taking down terrorists and saving civilians, defusing bombs, saving presidents ect.

Its almost like a sense of accomplishment/victory?

I cant even describe it, of course some of it is competition, you just want to win.

But really, I just like playing soldier, or playing spec ops guy, cause I know in real life I could never do either of them.

Its just so much fun doing missions and things, I have no idea why

...this is such a good post, I can't really answer the question

It's not shooting people what makes the game fun. It is the challenge. Games aren't fun unless you do well, but the challenge has to be entertaining. Have you ever played a game that is two year old easy, yet you loved it? The challenge of games makes them fun. How you go about completing the challenge is a just the frosting of the cake.giyanks22

I don't think its just the challenge though. Sports games, adventure games, puzzle games all give a challenge.

And yet the games that sell the most are the challenges involving war.

RTS: C&C, Age Of Empires, World at War, and Company of Heroes: all bestsellers, all war games.

FPS: Call of Duty, Medal of Honour, Gears of War, Halo, Metal Gear Solid

Sure, some titles, like Zelda and Mario sell very well and aren't to do with shooting. But it is games to do with war and violence that sell consistently best. So of all games are competitive and fun, surely it can't be those factors which make people prefer an FPS to a puzzle game.

I think that Wilfred Owen (WW1 veteran and poet: wrote Dulce et Decorum Est) would snort at titles like "Medal of Honour": do you really think soldiers come out of war zones with any notion of honour?

I reckon he would think it pretty sick that we chose to take, say WW2, and turn into entertainment you enjoy for the competition and escapism. Why take one of the most horrendous conflicts and turn it into a team based shooter? What right do we have to play Call of Duty 2 and call it fun? We're taking a very real conflict and enjoying it as entertainment. I think that deep down, gamers myself included, have a naivety surrounding war due to lack of experience of the real thing, so naturally we see it as exciting and entertaining. My personal opinion is that we enjoy shooting virtual enemies because it is fun, but its only fun because we have never done it ourselves. Like my reference to kids playing with toy soldiers.

I think if everyone in the gamespot forums was thrown into Vietnam, then people would have a very different attitude to games concerning war.

So my own personal opinion is that shooting people in games is so fun because gamers are like children: as we haven't experienced war we idealise it as something great, something exciting and romantic: a "Call of Duty". I personally think competition applies to all games, and fun applies to all games, otherwise people would only buy FPS games. I'm not saying your wrong, its just that's my two cents: that shooting Nazis in games is fun because we're ignorant of the reality.

Well i think its a pretty bad message that videogames give if they portray you as able to get away with murder.

hdhdhdhasajkalk

welll......thats why the games are usually rated M for mature. you have to realize a game is just a game. and theres nothing else to it. you cant do it in real life. and usually its not so much murder. its more defending ur country, life, family, etc.

[QUOTE="hdhdhdhasajkalk"]

Well i think its a pretty bad message that videogames give if they portray you as able to get away with murder.

JynXcat

welll......thats why the games are usually rated M for mature. you have to realize a game is just a game. and theres nothing else to it. you cant do it in real life. and usually its not so much murder. its more defending ur country, life, family, etc.

Thats a good point... its rarely motiveless killing.

I guess people can find the experience of actually killing a man somewhat intense. Maybe it's not so much about shooting someone, but killing. Guns are an alternative and simulating shooting in video games adds a strategy to killing.

This thread is getting dangerously deep.

(insert fart joke here)

first of all u dont shoot at people we are shooting at polygons. secondly its war it is not murder its killing like in the now the GTa, mafia games that is murder

And it would be just as fun in real life to shoot at some1 as long as they are the enemy

It's weird seeing this topic because I just had a dream the other night where I was playing some WW2 game and I was transported into the game. It was actually a horrifying dream for me and I woke up thinking how terrible it was to play games that would imitate a real, actual war.

I don't know whether the feeling will last or anything, but right now I dont really want to play that anything that is based off real wars/conflicts.

first of all u dont shoot at people we are shooting at polygons. secondly its war it is not murder its killing like in the now the GTa, mafia games that is murder

And it would be just as fun in real life to shoot at some1 as long as they are the enemy

ishoturface

Your argument that they are polygons neglects the fact you are still shooting them.

And I feel sorry for you if you feel shooting the enemy is fun. Then enemy from whose point of view? If someone were to kill your family in war because they considered them the enemy do you think you would regard that as murder, as fun?

You sound like a murderer to me if all you need to seperate murder from fun is a difference in political or religous opinion.

It's weird seeing this topic because I just had a dream the other night where I was playing some WW2 game and I was transported into the game. It was actually a horrifying dream for me and I woke up thinking how terrible it was to play games that would imitate a real, actual war.

I don't know whether the feeling will last or anything, but right now I dont really want to play that anything that is based off real wars/conflicts.

Vampyronight

yeah I think if half of us experienced war for real we wouldn't regard some games as entertainment and fun.

first of all u dont shoot at people we are shooting at polygons. secondly its war it is not murder its killing like in the now the GTa, mafia games that is murder

And it would be just as fun in real life to shoot at some1 as long as they are the enemy

ishoturface

I couldnt disagree with u more on that last point. Kiling enemy is fun? i think not. the fact that u would say that is sickening.................

If you actually went to real war... and saw the body parts, dying people, all the blood,

you would be horrified and scarred for life.

But really, its a much different perspective if your playing, let say, Resident Evil, where your shooting zombies, and trying to survive a biological apocoylpse. Its a sense of terror, and if the game is good enough, you actually feel immersed, and feel bad for your character.

You want to get him/her out. Thats another part of the 'shooting people is fun' thing.

I know this isn't directed at me, but I wanna answer it still.

[QUOTE="ishoturface"]

first of all u dont shoot at people we are shooting at polygons. secondly its war it is not murder its killing like in the now the GTa, mafia games that is murder

And it would be just as fun in real life to shoot at some1 as long as they are the enemy

hdhdhdhasajkalk

Your argument that they are polygons neglects the fact you are still shooting them.

But it isn't like shooting someone for real, is it? It's nothing close to actually killing someone

And I feel sorry for you if you feel shooting the enemy is fun.

Is there satisfaction to spitefully killing someone, taking all they've got? Have you ever seen a movie or read a book which details the satisfaction or happiness of taking someone's life? Do you think it's all just fiction?

The very emphasis of the Commandment: Thou shalt not kill, makes it certain that we are descended from an endlessly long chain of generations of murderers, whose love of murder was in their blood as it is perhaps also in ours.

- Sigmund Freud

But I wouldn't know, I'm not a murderer!

Then enemy from whose point of view?

Yours? Mine?

If someone were to kill your family in war because they considered them the enemy do you think you would regard that as murder, as fun?

War is murder.

No, I'm not the one killing a family! Why would I find it fun then? Would they? That is, would they find it fun killing someone completely defenseless? If only, out of a sadistic pleasure. But aren't families spared? Is anyone truly spared from war?

You sound like a murderer to me if all you need to seperate murder from fun is a difference in political or religous opinion.

Does it bother you that they make them look like humans? Are aliens any better?

Sorry I don't really understand your post. Could you clarify?

I think somewhere there you've put two of my quotes contradicting each other. That is deliberate because they were representing two different sides of the same argument.

In reply to spitefully killing somebody, yes I have. Silence of the Lambs is my film example, Othello is my example in literature and serial killers are my examples in real life.

In terms of Thou Shalt Not Kill: many people are not Christian and do not need the 10 commandments to live life. However we all live by some set of rules: some of us may have high moral standards; others may obey the law, others God. As I was saying earlier in games those rules don't exist, so killing becomes fun as you can get away with it and killing people virtually passes for sport in our society.

Murder is such a horribly general word. I could kill a man because he killed my family (revenge), I could kill a man because it was my job and my officer told me to (war) and I could kill a man for no reason at all (motiveless evil). None of those are really related: if they have a reason, the reason is different. Yet they are all classed as murder. I don't think war is murder: for some people it is a job. War is a by product of human inter-competition and insensitivity. Murder usually has a personal motive.

Aliens are in a sense better in that you have a motive for killing them: like in Halo to defend Earth, but the motive lies within the game. I don't really think when people play Halo they do it to save a fictionalised Earth, they do it for the sheer joy of blasting aliens in the head.

Nobody is spared in war. If you escape without any physical scars, your left with mental ones.

I give the family example to show conflicting views of who the enemy is. The soldier ordered to kill your family sees you as a threat to him, so he kills them. You see him as the enemy because he murdered your family. I didn't mean to make a point about motiveless evil as I think that largely stays in fiction with the exception of serial killers.

This is going off the point a bit...what exactly was your answer that you wanted to contribute? I know that sounds pushy, but what criticism of me did you have, and why do you think people enjoy recreating war in a virtual reality and shooting people?

You already dismissed several reasons that people gave for enjoying them, simply because you didn't accept them. Firstly, please don't say things like "change for the worst and become animal like" (paraphrasing, I'm not sure of the exact words). Society does too much to reduce and try to control humanity's animal nature. It should be appreciated MORE, not less, the current approach of society's hypocritical "Only the mind matters, the body does not" that causes more psychological damage than any game could.

Secondly, I think you are treading a VERY fine line with this critical tone towards people who enjoy FPS games. Perhaps some do just enjoy the killing. "They are just games" is stated a lot, but it really cannot be overstated frankly. Games for adults who can accept the differences between fantasy and reality, but games still. And "fantasy" is important. Lots of people THINK about killing this person or attacking that. Are we to ban that, or condemn that? If anything, MORE people should be focussing their entirely normal emotional reactions onto appropriate release channels, such as violent games for violent or frustrating thoughts, rather than doing what society demands and try to represss your emotions as if they are evil or wrong and eventually end up ACTUALLY killing 20 people.

Personally, I do enjoy the violence of shooters. I love sniping people in Vegas, chainsawing Locust chumps in Gears, sticking people in Halo with those cool ass blue grenades and laughing as they explode. I enjoy this outlet for my fantasy thoughts, I enjoy the action based gameplay. I do not consider myself a dangerous person, and I do not think I could kill another human being unless it was extreme circumstances, but in such circumstances I do not think it would be considered "murder". And I also think it's odd for people to talk about real wars and such, like it's relevant. Too many people in real life actually die to even think about caring about "killing" "people" in a game. I'm aware that it is a game, all fantasy make believe. Therefore in my opinion, nothing that happens in the game is going to cause me to act out the more "base" and animalistic parts of my being.

You already dismissed several reasons that people gave for enjoying them.

No I just gave a counter argument and if they chose not to elaborate on their own argument or criticise mine then I left it at that. I didn't dismiss them at all. Its hard to make a counter argument sound thoughtful not critical and perhaps I failed on that front. Sorry if I did: I didn't mean to sound dismissive :) and I enjoy hearing people's opinions.

Firstly, please don't say things like "change for the worst and become animal like" (paraphrasing, I'm not sure of the exact words). Society does too much to reduce and try to control humanity's animal nature. It should be appreciated MORE, not less, the current approach of society's hypocritical "Only the mind matters, the body does not" that causes more psychological damage than any game could.

I think refusing to think, compromise and rationalise causes more damage. I'm not basing my opinion on a poem, but "Hawk Roosting" by Ted Hughes reminds me of this.

Secondly, I think you are treading a VERY fine line with this critical tone towards people who enjoy FPS games. Perhaps some do just enjoy the killing. "They are just games" is stated a lot, but it really cannot be overstated frankly. Games for adults who can accept the differences between fantasy and reality, but games still.

Well it depends on your definition of adult. I have said that I think that people who have never experienced war, myself included, are the ones who enjoy it, as we share a childlike fascination with war, like kids playing with toy soldiers. I think anyone who re creates the D Day landings and plays them as entertainment, a la Medal of Honour: Allied Assault, has a childlike view to games. War veterans would have had the real experience, hence would have an adult and mature attitude to war.

And "fantasy" is important. Lots of people THINK about killing this person or attacking that. Are we to ban that, or condemn that? If anything, MORE people should be focussing their entirely normal emotional reactions onto appropriate release channels, such as violent games for violent or frustrating thoughts, rather than doing what society demands and try to represss your emotions as if they are evil or wrong and eventually end up ACTUALLY killing 20 people.

I'm not saying ban it. I thought this would happen: the original question is why is shooting people in games fun. I agree with you: violent games should not be banned as I guess that yes some people lack the self control needed to shun violence altoghether from their minds and relieve it with virtual reality. But thats not what the thread was meant to say: it was meant to explore the relationship between the love of virtual violence and human nature.

And I also think it's odd for people to talk about real wars and such, like it's relevant.

Again I'm not saying real war is anything like the war we play in games, what I'm saying is that its odd we enjoy re creating that same as entertainment.

I'm aware that it is a game, all fantasy make believe. Therefore in my opinion, nothing that happens in the game is going to cause me to act out the more "base" and animalistic parts of my being.

But you still fictionalise yourself in a virtual world without law or consequence just so you can carry out those basic impulses: to kill, to steal etc

ViscaBarcaInter

Sorry I don't really understand your post. Could you clarify?

I think somewhere there you've put two of my quotes contradicting each other. That is deliberate because they were representing two different sides of the same argument.

In reply to spitefully killing somebody, yes I have. Silence of the Lambs is my film example, Othello is my example in literature and serial killers are my examples in real life.

In terms of Thou Shalt Not Kill: many people are not Christian and do not need the 10 commandments to live life. However we all live by some set of rules: some of us may have high moral standards; others may obey the law, others God. As I was saying earlier in games those rules don't exist, so killing becomes fun as you can get away with it and killing people virtually passes for sport in our society.

The quote was not meant as advice to following the ten commandments. It was merely illustrating the point that it, (the commandment) ''makes it certain that we are descended from an endlessly long chain of generations of murderers, whose love of murder was in their blood as it is perhaps also in ours.'' The reason for its existence is proof people were murderers long ago and that they still, even to this day, have love for murder (according to Freud). It has nothing to do with following Christianity, but with humans enjoying murder. Sorry if I'm repeating myself needlessly if you already got Freud's point.

Murder is such a horribly general word. I could kill a man because he killed my family (revenge), I could kill a man because it was my job and my officer told me to (war) and I could kill a man for no reason at all (motiveless evil). None of those are really related: if they have a reason, the reason is different. Yet they are all classed as murder. I don't think war is murder: for some people it is a job. War is a by product of human inter-competition and insensitivity. Murder usually has a personal motive.

Duty won't free someone from the guilt that comes with the acts they commit. There's always a choice between staining your hands in blood or not, and hiding behind the sometimes deceptive reasonings of a country's brutal politics and the mentality of acting in self-defense doesn't do the case any justice. I don't condemn soldiers for doing their duty but I still view this as murder on a large scale.

Aliens are in a sense better in that you have a motive for killing them: like in Halo to defend Earth, but the motive lies within the game. I don't really think when people play Halo they do it to save a fictionalised Earth, they do it for the sheer joy of blasting aliens in the head.

There's always motives in video games for killing humans too. You don't see aliens trying to take over the world in every video, and like the freedom to kill innocent men in GTA, there's freedom in other games to murder innocent aliens also.

My question was if you find killing aliens in video games less condemnable (that is, if you found killing humans in video games in any way condemnable in the first place). I assume from your answer that this is entirely dependant on the setting in which the game takes place.

Nobody is spared in war. If you escape without any physical scars, your left with mental ones.

I give the family example to show conflicting views of who the enemy is. The soldier ordered to kill your family sees you as a threat to him, so he kills them. You see him as the enemy because he murdered your family. I didn't mean to make a point about motiveless evil as I think that largely stays in fiction with the exception of serial killers.

I didn't get this part. Assuming he kills my family, my view of him as the enemy is conflicting with what?

This is going off the point a bit...what exactly was your answer that you wanted to contribute? I know that sounds pushy, but what criticism of me did you have, and why do you think people enjoy recreating war in a virtual reality and shooting people?

I think shooters are fun because they're genuinely competitive in a violent manner, but committing similar acts of violence in life as you do in video games is completely different of course. Behaving in a violent manner in a video game does not necessarily make you a violent person in life while playing the game. While playing a video game you also have the role of the viewer. My point is that behaving violently in a video game doesn't make you any more aggressive than watching an action movie or boxing match.

To conclude, shooting people in video games can be competitive in a violent but harmless manner thus making it fun. If killing somoene defenseless in a video game is considered fun by some people, this is merely there to suit a small sadistic desire, for a reward from the game, or comic relief. If a game would consist entirely out of motiveless violence, it wouldn't be very worthwhile.

hdhdhdhasajkalk

Some people seem to argue that there is a motive for the shooting in the game. How far does that motive move you though? Let's take GTA for example: do you really care about his life, his rise to power, whether he falls from that power o not?

I wouldn't really care at all: even if story comes first not gameplay, I don't think the justification that you have a reason for committing crime in GTA is the main one. You enjoy the game because you enjoy shooting people in it, enjoy stealing cars, enjoy relieving the part of you that relishes such acts that in real life would be impossible.

I don't think we were all murderers before the 10 commandments. There were civilisations in tandem and before with the Egyptians and although my Bible is a bit rough, the Jews led by Moses escaped in this period and only after then was it that God gave Moses the 10 commandments on Mount Sinai (?). When I said about laws coming from other places I meant that really it's all the same: whether you have the 10 commandments, obey the law or read and worship Allah and the Qur'an, there are still rules to keep us in check. In videogames you take away the rules, and consequence, and you let rip. Hence my reference much earlier on to the Congo jungle in Heart of Darkness: Kurtz obeys no laws so he loses his humanity and sanity in the "strange world of plants, and water, and silence". I'm not saying your go crazy from playing shooters at all, but there is a correlation between the two.

The Alien or human question...ooh that's really tough. I mean there is a difference in reality, but in games? I can only give opinion here and I'm sure many would disagree, but again I would say its not really any better at all because in a game you don't play to shoot a human being, or an alien: in a game world they are really the same thing: stuff for you to shoot. And you play to shoot full stop. Because fundamentally FPS games are played for the love of the genre, which itself is shooting, which we all seem to find fun, which is what this thread tries to explain..

The family point was to try and show conflicting views of the enemy. I wouldn't worry about it: I just tried to show that an enemy is relative to a personal point of view. The Taliban see the troops stationed in Afghanistan as invaders, the Americans see the Taliban as terrorists.

"What better way to have fun then compete with other people while being in no danger?": sure, but when we play sport we do the same thing. But sport is not malicious in intent, and yet is still competitive. I wonder: some games are competitive in nature, but are they malicious in intent? I don't think they are in intent, but they end up that way, because you still get a kick out of shooting somebody, and there are a whole bunch of reasons in the thread to why that is.

"To conclude, shooting people in video games can be competitive in a violent but harmless manner thus making it fun. If killing someone defenceless in a video game is considered fun by some people, this is merely there to suit a small sadistic desire, for a reward from the game, or comic relief. If a game would consist entirely out of motiveless violence, it wouldn't be very worthwhile".

I think you're right: I think the reason we enjoy violence, virtual or real, as entertainment though is because like you said deep down perhaps we're all worse people then we would like to believe.

ARGUMENTS FOR

a) ESCAPISM: In games we have no consequence to our shooting, so it acts as a form of relieving the fact most human beings have a suppressed desire to kill, to injure, to steal etc.

b) MOTIVE: When you shoot someone in a game you have a reason for it given to you by the storyline.

c) COMPETITION: When you compete in a team based FPS it is competetive, hence the shooting is just another form of competition. As the game is virtual, the sport becomes harmless. Games are fun not because of shooting, but because of the challenge.

d) REALITY: A game is a game: who cares if you shoot somebody, its not like shooting them for real is it.

e) ENTERTAINMENT: Shooting people and replaying historic theatres of war passes as entertainment in our society. Enjoying shooting people in a game is no different to enjoying a good war film or novel.

g) POWER: It gives you power and control.