Wow Manuhunt 2 executions look horrible

http://media.wii.ign.com/media/883/883115/vids_1.html

Really dissapointed about this it could have been a great game

That is disgusting :|.

I wish ESRB would have gotten rid of this game :cry:.

Now I seriously feel nauseous :(.

Well I just found out the PS2 versions look a little different than the Wii. It just flashes bteween color and b/w no crazy blurring motion. The handgun execution makes me excited about this game agian:D check it out

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/830/830473p1.html

That is disgusting :|.

I wish ESRB would have gotten rid of this game :cry:.

Now I seriously feel nauseous :(.F-14Bombcat

And yet you just had to look at it, right? :|

Anyway, I don't like the Wii version's motion blur and camera swerving, but the PS2 executions aren't really that bad. As always, Rockstar found a creative solution that plays well into the storyline (Lamb is prone to hallucinations). I'm still hoping for an uncensored European release.

Now I can see why it got slapped with the AO rating by watching the "death by crowbar video", its pretty graphic and kind of disgusting as you hear the victim gag. I've played the original halfway thru haven't gotten to finish it due to getting caught up with other games; it was pretty violent and a intense challenging game but that and the "choke video" are a bit pushing it compared to the first one.D3s7rUc71oN

It's actually just the opposite for me. I'm looking at it and I can't comprehend why would they go with AO considering that it's really similar to the original in which the "grousome" crowbar execution involved hitting a hunter in the sides, then cracking his skull with a downward motion while he's on his knees, blood splattering all over the screen. The meat cleaver and machete executions from the original are far worse than this. Sorry, but considering that the original got an M, there's no justificiation for the AO rating whatsoever from what I've seen (also note that I have seen the leaked uncensored footage).

[QUOTE="F-14Bombcat"]That is disgusting :|.

I wish ESRB would have gotten rid of this game :cry:.

Now I seriously feel nauseous :(.UpInFlames

And yet you just had to look at it, right? :|

Anyway, I don't like the Wii version's motion blur and camera swerving, but the PS2 executions aren't really that bad. As always, Rockstar found a creative solution that plays well into the storyline (Lamb is prone to hallucinations). I'm still hoping for an uncensored European release.

I'm not a fan of Manhunt 1 or 2, but I've been following the game some due to the fact that games as they relate to politics is something of an interest of mine. And so I have to say good luck on getting an uncensored European release. The UK banned the sale of the game outright. Even the edited versions that got a M rating weren't allowed. I'm not certain about other countries though.

[QUOTE="D3s7rUc71oN"]Now I can see why it got slapped with the AO rating by watching the "death by crowbar video", its pretty graphic and kind of disgusting as you hear the victim gag. I've played the original halfway thru haven't gotten to finish it due to getting caught up with other games; it was pretty violent and a intense challenging game but that and the "choke video" are a bit pushing it compared to the first one.UpInFlames

It's actually just the opposite for me. I'm looking at it and I can't comprehend why would they go with AO considering that it's really similar to the original in which the "grousome" crowbar execution involved hitting a hunter in the sides, then cracking his skull with a downward motion while he's on his knees, blood splattering all over the screen. The meat cleaver and machete executions from the original are far worse than this. Sorry, but considering that the original got an M, there's no justificiation for the AO rating whatsoever from what I've seen (also note that I have seen the leaked uncensored footage).

The executions seemed worse in Manhunt 1 like the one sawing your enemies head off with a barbed wire or using the crowbar but what makes it more tolerable to me is the blood (graphics) looked unrealistic and your victims didn't show much "emotion" in a realistic manner compared to this sequel. I think that's what makes more "gruesome" than the original. Note that only those 2 videos I've mentioned are the ones that draw my attention, the other 2 are more tame compared to the original.

I'm not a fan of Manhunt 1 or 2, but I've been following the game some due to the fact that games as they relate to politics is something of an interest of mine. And so I have to say good luck on getting an uncensored European release. The UK banned the sale of the game outright. Even the edited versions that got a M rating weren't allowed. I'm not certain about other countries though.Mad_Scientist

The only other game that was banned in Britain was Carmageddon back in 1997. SCi filed an appeal, the decision was overturned, and the game was released. Rockstar filed an appeal as well, so Manhunt 2 being released in Britain is not entirely out of the question especially when you take into consideration that the BBFC simply doesn't have a case. Their reasoning for banning the game is flimsy at best, Carmageddon's ban was lifted because the BBFC simply couldn't prove that the game would be harmful to anyone, and the BBFC has recently flat-out said that they can't prove that. Most European countries can't ban games, so I have to say that I'm a bit puzzled as to why Rockstar doesn't release their game over here even though Britain is admittedly one of the biggest European game markets.

The executions seemed worse in Manhunt 1 like the one sawing your enemies head off with a barbed wire or using the crowbar but what makes it more tolerable to me is the blood (graphics) looked unrealistic and your victims didn't show much "emotion" in a realistic manner compared to this sequel. I think that's what makes more "gruesome" than the original. Note that only those 2 videos I've mentioned are the ones that draw my attention, the other 2 are more tame compared to the original.D3s7rUc71oN

It's still PS2 graphics, if it were on the 360/PS3 you'd have a point, but this really doesn't look at all different (the animations seem better, though). As for the "emotion", in the original hunters were twitching, gasping for air, gurgling blood...it was really horrible stuff, and I can't say that this is any worse. In fact, as it is now, Manhunt 2 is actuallyconsiderably tamer than the original.

The meat cleaver and machete executions from the original are far worse than this. UpInFlames

Plastic bag silent wepaon and Baseball bat heavy weapon on thier fully pressed stealth kills were some of the most gruesome events ive ever seen in a videogame that I can think of right now. Slaughterhouse and older games would maybe bebetter but they cant count becuase of graphic detail.

Without the "No remorse" violence id say Silent Hill 2 and 3 were very gory and they made a movie about it!

:O I was freaking out when I saw the thumbnails for the videos, but I was like "I'm so watching them. I'm very anxious." I watch them, and wow. Very gory, but it looks kind of fun since it's not real at all. Although, I wouldn't be able to play these games because I hate sneaking behind people. I always get caught and piss my pants.

My only big problem with the game is why would it be included with the Wii?! You are practically making the killing motions with your hands. Isn't a controller enough for this?

I'd totally play this, but I would have to change my underwear and pants multiple, multiple times.

While it sucks that they had to make adjustments for the ESRB, I personally don't mind the video effects they applied to the death segments as much, as I can pretty much tell what's going on relatively clearly.

The changes don't remove the fact that I'm buying this game on day one.

The only other game that was banned in Britain was Carmageddon back in 1997. SCi filed an appeal, the decision was overturned, and the game was released. Rockstar filed an appeal as well, so Manhunt 2 being released in Britain is not entirely out of the question especially when you take into consideration that the BBFC simply doesn't have a case. Their reasoning for banning the game is flimsy at best, Carmageddon's ban was lifted because the BBFC simply couldn't prove that the game would be harmful to anyone, and the BBFC has recently flat-out said that they can't prove that. Most European countries can't ban games, so I have to say that I'm a bit puzzled as to why Rockstar doesn't release their game over here even though Britain is admittedly one of the biggest European game markets.

UpInFlames

That may very well be, as you said only one other game has been banned in the UK so there's not a huge amount of precedent to go on. Though without Rockstar having already submitted an edited version and it too getting rejected, I'm not sure what the chances of an unedited version getting released in the UK are. If one did, it would be quite ironic though, as it would mean that the country that originally banned the sale outright of even the edited versionwould be selling the uncensored form of the game, while in the US where the edited version was immediately accepted the unedited version still wouldn't be found.

I have no idea about other European countries though. I live in the US, and just about the only rating system in Europe that I hear about are the BBFC ratings for the UK and Germany's system. I understand Germany often forces games to be edited heavily for violence but seldom bans outright.

That may very well be, as you said only one other game has been banned in the UK so there's not a huge amount of precedent to go on. Though without Rockstar having already submitted an edited version and it too getting rejected, I'm not sure what the chances of an unedited version getting released in the UK are. If one did, it would be quite ironic though, as it would mean that the country that originally banned the sale outright of even the edited versionwould be selling the uncensored form of the game, while in the US where the edited version was immediately accepted the unedited version still wouldn't be found.

I have no idea about other European countries though. I live in the US, and just about the only rating system in Europe that I hear about are the BBFC ratings for the UK and Germany's system. I understand Germany often forces games to be edited heavily for violence but seldom bans outright.Mad_Scientist

Unlike in the US, the appeal isn't processed by the ratings body, both sides are going to plead their case in front of an independent third-party, so in the end, the BBFC's refusal of both versions isn't that important.

Most of Europe is covered under the PEGI system whose most restrictive rating is 18+ (equivalent of M) and it doesn't have the ability to ban or censor games in any way.

That is disgusting :|.

I wish ESRB would have gotten rid of this game :cry:.

Now I seriously feel nauseous :(.

F-14Bombcat

I personally find your promotion of censorship moretroublesome than anything in those videos.

And the ESRBare censor-happy assclowns.

I personally find your promotion of censorship moretroublesome than anything in those videos.

And the ESRBare censor-happy assclowns.

Grammaton-Cleric

I may sound as if I am contradicting myself here, but I do not agree with censorship. If they show somebody die, so be it. But if you have somebody ruthlessly killing another person with a crowbar taking out their organs, that is going too far. When they add unnecessary violence, that is when I start shaking my head.I think ESRB is doing the right thing by at least banning the AO version of this game. Violence is okay. Decapitations, amputation, and suffocating is when I think the line should be drawn. I am currently writing a few papers about censorship (both for and against), so think twice before you label me as Jack Thompson who just wants to get rid of violence in video games. I actually think animated violence is actually helpful in society to show us what could happen, but this took it too far and I am not going to support it. I know just one missed sell is not going to change anything, but I hope that a few other people go in my direction and not support such abysmal games.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]

I personally find your promotion of censorship moretroublesome than anything in those videos.

And the ESRBare censor-happy assclowns.

F-14Bombcat

I may sound as if I am contradicting myself here, but I do not agree with censorship. If they show somebody die, so be it. But if you have somebody ruthlessly killing another person with a crowbar taking out their organs, that is going too far. When they add unnecessary violence, that is when I start shaking my head.I think ESRB is doing the right thing by at least banning the AO version of this game. Violence is okay. Decapitations, amputation, and suffocating is when I think the line should be drawn. I am currently writing a few papers about censorship (both for and against), so think twice before you label me as Jack Thompson who just wants to get rid of violence in video games. I actually think animated violence is actually helpful in society to show us what could happen, but this took it too far and I am not going to support it. I know just one missed sell is not going to change anything, but I hope that a few other people go in my direction and not support such abysmal games.

In manhunt, the violence is completely necessery... its the whole game. Im not the type who loves violence, but what would Hostel be without the violence? It wouldn't be what it's known for. I can see how you think they are "going too far", but I don't agree that some violence should be censored and some shouldn't. MOST people buying manhunt 2 know that the violence is way above the norm. in most games, and they make the choice to buy it, so I don't think the line should be drawn. If people don't want that kind of violence... then they shouldn't buy it.

This game should not be banned, not matter how much violence it has... people are mature enought to make their own decisions. They should put a warning lable on the front (ever see the case of Conker?) labeling this game above normal... and trust me, there are movies much more abysmal then manhunt.

[Quote=F14-Bombcat]

I may sound as if I am contradicting myself here, but I do not agree with censorship. If they show somebody die, so be it. But if you have somebody ruthlessly killing another person with a crowbar taking out their organs, that is going too far. When they add unnecessary violence, that is when I start shaking my head.I think ESRB is doing the right thing by at least banning the AO version of this game. Violence is okay. Decapitations, amputation, and suffocating is when I think the line should be drawn. I am currently writing a few papers about censorship (both for and against), so think twice before you label me as Jack Thompson who just wants to get rid of violence in video games. I actually think animated violence is actually helpful in society to show us what could happen, but this took it too far and I am not going to support it. I know just one missed sell is not going to change anything, but I hope that a few other people go in my direction and not support such abysmal games.

These statements are not contradictory, but this one is.

That is disgusting :|.

I wish ESRB would have gotten rid of this game :cry:.

Now I seriously feel nauseous :(.

F-14Bombcat

Is that you, Jack Thompson Jr.?

It's a shame they had to do that, stupid wimps. I've watched so much news reports on this, and I love how EVERY news reporter thinks the game is for kids. Ha, do they not realise there are gamers over the age of 18?

The censoring sucks, but hopefully the game plays well.

Its ironic that ratings in music, games, etc. have only made it easier for censorship to happen and taken away true freedom of expression. There's an article in the new EGM about the ESRB with some developers speaking out against them. Jaffe says they need to grow a pair.

And the ESRB are censor-happy assclowns. Grammaton-Cleric

That is a view I do not understand. The ESRB didn't censer Manhunt 2. The ESRB didn't stop it from being sold. They just gave it a rating. It's the console makers who are stopping it from being sold. Are you saying that the ESRB should have given Manhunt 2 a M rating just so it could be sold? That the duty of a supposedly independent ratings body is to purposely misrate games so that they can sell better/easier?

Now, it's possible the ESRB just made a mistake here, perhaps reacting to the increased hostility with which games are viewed by some people. But one ironic thing I recall is that when Manhunt 1 came out, quite a few people were saying that it deserved an AO rating and that the ESRB were a bunch of frauds for rating it M. They can't win, can they?

I've never played either game and haven't seen much of them even. So I can't answer whether Manhunt 2 really deserved it's AO. But I do know that such things are unfortunately very subjective.

"How is Manhunt any different from Saw? Hostel? Turistas? This is a question, I don't really support any views, i'm just in the middle, but i'm curious,how are movies about aphsycho murdering people any different than a video game about a phsycho murdering people?"

I don't think there is much of a difference, but the arguement people make is that because a game is interactive, it's worse. At first glass, that arguement sounds good, because in a game like Manhunt 2, you're actually playing the guy doing the killing, not just watching.

Of course, there was that study done in the UK I believe that found that video games were better, because they are interactive. The arguement being that the interactive nature of a game reinforces the line between fantasy and reality (press A button, guy swings blade, press b button and he jumps like a monkey oncommand,obviously not a real guy) andeffects whatthe focus of the gamer is on, more towards actually playing the game then the violence, while TV and movie watching is a more passive experience that makes the violent images easier to absord and makes the line between reality and fantasy less clear. Or something like that, can't remember exactly.

And then you have the studies saying there's no real difference between video games and other forms of violent media in terms of their effects.

And then you have the studies saying there's no real difference between video games and other forms of violent media in terms of their effects.Mad_Scientist

I agree with this whole post. I dont think there is a real difference at all. The only thing I see the opposite side feels about it is that "videogames" are for children. I feel it should be treated just like the movie industries.

"How is Manhunt any different from Saw? Hostel? Turistas? This is a question, I don't really support any views, i'm just in the middle, but i'm curious,how are movies about aphsycho murdering people any different than a video game about a phsycho murdering people?"

I don't think there is much of a difference, but the arguement people make is that because a game is interactive, it's worse. At first glass, that arguement sounds good, because in a game like Manhunt 2, you're actually playing the guy doing the killing, not just watching.

Of course, there was that study done in the UK I believe that found that video games were better, because they are interactive. The arguement being that the interactive nature of a game reinforces the line between fantasy and reality (press A button, guy swings blade, press b button and he jumps like a monkey oncommand,obviously not a real guy) andeffects whatthe focus of the gamer is on, more towards actually playing the game then the violence, while TV and movie watching is a more passive experience that makes the violent images easier to absord and makes the line between reality and fantasy less clear. Or something like that, can't remember exactly.

And then you have the studies saying there's no real difference between video games and other forms of violent media in terms of their effects.

Mad_Scientist

I'd agree with the the argument that videogames are more immersive than movies, but take into the consideration, video games characters are sprites, pixels, no life, nothing. Movies on the otherhand, or real people dying (So real infact you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference nowadays between a real person getting sawed in half versus movie magic) so in that sense, I feel movies engross the viewer into the movies, cause they are real people.

[QUOTE="Grammaton-Cleric"]And the ESRB are censor-happy assclowns. Mad_Scientist

That is a view I do not understand. The ESRB didn't censer Manhunt 2. The ESRB didn't stop it from being sold. They just gave it a rating. It's the console makers who are stopping it from being sold. Are you saying that the ESRB should have given Manhunt 2 a M rating just so it could be sold? That the duty of a supposedly independent ratings body is to purposely misrate games so that they can sell better/easier?

Now, it's possible the ESRB just made a mistake here, perhaps reacting to the increased hostility with which games are viewed by some people. But one ironic thing I recall is that when Manhunt 1 came out, quite a few people were saying that it deserved an AO rating and that the ESRB were a bunch of frauds for rating it M. They can't win, can they?

I've never played either game and haven't seen much of them even. So I can't answer whether Manhunt 2 really deserved it's AO. But I do know that such things are unfortunately very subjective.

I've already written two very long and detailed anti-ESRB posts so I'm not really looking to write a third. You can readone here if you want:

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=25945693

Basically, it breaks downlike this: the ESRB uses the AO rating much in the same way the MPAA uses the NC-17 rating. Both ratings have no practical purpose and both are redundant. The only difference between an AO game and an M rated game is what the ESRB says. It's an arbitrary system that allows soccer moms, religiousfanatics and other non-artistic people to become would-be censors.