You are now in 1993, your parents will only buy you either a 3DO or a Jaguar

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] and a game I think should have a sequel or a HD version . what amazed me about Panzer Saga was the atmosphere it had and the story, the battle system was very good too. graphically, its very interesting, because very few RPGs at that time were full 3D, most were either 2D (Lunar) , 3D characters with 2D backgrounds (the FF games ) , or 3D enviroments with 2D characters (Grandia , Xenogears) , PDS does everything in 3D, and it does it well too .Darkman2007

Yep Panzer dragoon Saga had an excellent story and your right about the 3D aspect of it. Again I think we need to see rereleases of some of these games, such as Saga and Burning Rangers need rereleases. Its kind of sad since Sega seems to fondly remember the Genesis and even the Dreamcast era but seems to have forgotten the Saturn era....

Yep I remember even several attempts on the Saturn to start new franchises such as Clock Work Knight and Mr Bones, but alas both of those games fizzled out sadly.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

Yep Panzer dragoon Saga had an excellent story and your right about the 3D aspect of it. Again I think we need to see rereleases of some of these games, such as Saga and Burning Rangers need rereleases. Its kind of sad since Sega seems to fondly remember the Genesis and even the Dreamcast era but seems to have forgotten the Saturn era....

TheTrueMagusX1

Yep I remember even several attempts on the Saturn to start new franchises such as Clock Work Knight and Mr Bones, but alas both of those games fizzled out sadly.

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] in terms of sales, the Saturn and Dreamcast both sold around 9-10 million units, so both are technically , not successful, but the DC did better in the west, wheres the Saturn did better in Japan , so there is less of a market in the west. the sad thing is, that the Saturn was probably Sega's most supported system, they made or published alot of games on the system.Darkman2007

Yep I remember even several attempts on the Saturn to start new franchises such as Clock Work Knight and Mr Bones, but alas both of those games fizzled out sadly.

All those great games. Though I did remember something, the Original Panzer Dragoon did get ported though, and it got to me any way, a flawless port. Rmeember how you can unlock it in Panzer Dragoon Orta for the Xbox? So yeah it is possible to port them, luckily I rememebered that.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

Yep I remember even several attempts on the Saturn to start new franchises such as Clock Work Knight and Mr Bones, but alas both of those games fizzled out sadly.

TheTrueMagusX1

All those great games. Though I did remember something, the Original Panzer Dragoon did get ported though, and it got to me any way, a flawless port. Rmeember how you can unlock it in Panzer Dragoon Orta for the Xbox? So yeah it is possible to port them, luckily I rememebered that.

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] not to mention Panzer Dragoon , Virtua Fighter (started in the arcades, but the Saturn got the first home ports) , Virtua Cop (same) , Nights, Burning Rangers , Astal , Dragon Force, and others all started on the Saturn by Sega.Darkman2007

All those great games. Though I did remember something, the Original Panzer Dragoon did get ported though, and it got to me any way, a flawless port. Rmeember how you can unlock it in Panzer Dragoon Orta for the Xbox? So yeah it is possible to port them, luckily I rememebered that.

Interesting, well I am keeping my fingers crossed for a Saturn Collection. For now though I guess I will just continue hunting down titles...

DOA Saturn on the left PS1 DOA on the right

Darkman2007

PS1 version has better lighting/shading while the Saturn version runs in a higher res.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

DOA Saturn on the left PS1 DOA on the right

nameless12345

PS1 version has better lighting/shading while the Saturn version runs in a higher res.

pretty much , just the Saturn one is a bit less blocky and has better quality textures., but again , its a matter of taste of which one is actually the better looking.

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

DOA Saturn on the left PS1 DOA on the right

Darkman2007

PS1 version has better lighting/shading while the Saturn version runs in a higher res.

pretty much , just the Saturn one is a bit less blocky and has better quality textures., but again , its a matter of taste of which one is actually the better looking.

Yeah, its dead or alive, give me any version and its a fun little fighting game. Not the best but fun though!

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="nameless12345"]

PS1 version has better lighting/shading while the Saturn version runs in a higher res.

TheTrueMagusX1

pretty much , just the Saturn one is a bit less blocky and has better quality textures., but again , its a matter of taste of which one is actually the better looking.

Yeah, its dead or alive, give me any version and its a fun little fighting game. Not the best but fun though!

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

pretty much , just the Saturn one is a bit less blocky and has better quality textures., but again , its a matter of taste of which one is actually the better looking.

Darkman2007

Yeah, its dead or alive, give me any version and its a fun little fighting game. Not the best but fun though!

Good Point, I think the pad on the Saturn was quite good for Fighting games, but the PSX controller is good in its own right. But I think in terms of controllers however for fighting games just the pure lay out of the six buttons on Saturn games(or the six button for Genesis fighters) was good as well.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

Yeah, its dead or alive, give me any version and its a fun little fighting game. Not the best but fun though!

TheTrueMagusX1

Good Point, I think the pad on the Saturn was quite good for Fighting games, but the PSX controller is good in its own right. But I think in terms of controllers however for fighting games just the pure lay out of the six buttons on Saturn games(or the six button for Genesis fighters) was good as well.

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] I think we are also forgetting the aspect of which controller is better. if someone likes the PS1 controller better, he will favour the PS1 version no matter if it looks worse or not.Darkman2007

Good Point, I think the pad on the Saturn was quite good for Fighting games, but the PSX controller is good in its own right. But I think in terms of controllers however for fighting games just the pure lay out of the six buttons on Saturn games(or the six button for Genesis fighters) was good as well.

Yeah I remember that Analog controller was shipped with Nights back in the fall of 1996.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

Good Point, I think the pad on the Saturn was quite good for Fighting games, but the PSX controller is good in its own right. But I think in terms of controllers however for fighting games just the pure lay out of the six buttons on Saturn games(or the six button for Genesis fighters) was good as well.

TheTrueMagusX1

Yeah I remember that Analog controller was shipped with Nights back in the fall of 1996.

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] I certainly prefer the Saturn controller for these types of games. the dual analog controllers the PS1 later got were better for 3D games though. obviously the Saturn got an analoge controller , but it only has one analoge "stick " (its more like a thumb pad)Darkman2007

Yeah I remember that Analog controller was shipped with Nights back in the fall of 1996.

I say that D Pad was just as bad as the one on the Xbox 360.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

Yeah I remember that Analog controller was shipped with Nights back in the fall of 1996.

TheTrueMagusX1

I say that D Pad was just as bad as the one on the Xbox 360.

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] which is basically a Dreamcast controller with 2 more buttons why they took off 2 buttons off for the DC is beyond me, the DC controller has has that awful D-pad .Darkman2007

I say that D Pad was just as bad as the one on the Xbox 360.

the saturn's D-pad is too mushy

the DC's real problem is that horrible analog stick and the fact that it only has one analog

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

I say that D Pad was just as bad as the one on the Xbox 360.

ohthemanatee

the saturn's D-pad is too mushy

the DC's real problem is that horrible analog stick and the fact that it only has one analog

If you're from Europe then it's very likely that you've experienced the smaller controller with the inferior d-pad.

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] I don't see why they couldnt have used the Saturn D-pad, its far better and more comfortable to use.Panzer_Zwei

the saturn's D-pad is too mushy

the DC's real problem is that horrible analog stick and the fact that it only has one analog

If you're from Europe then it's very likely that you've experienced the smaller controller with the inferior d-pad.

I do believe Darkman is from Europe so that might explain what you mean. I thought the Saturn pad was quite good, one of the best Dpads out there, so it looks like we did luck out in terms of getting the good DPad.

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]really? I actually like DC's D-pad better than the saturn's D-PAD.

the saturn's D-pad is too mushy

the DC's real problem is that horrible analog stick and the fact that it only has one analog

TheTrueMagusX1

If you're from Europe then it's very likely that you've experienced the smaller controller with the inferior d-pad.

I do believe Darkman is from Europe so that might explain what you mean. I thought the Saturn pad was quite good, one of the best Dpads out there, so it looks like we did luck out in terms of getting the good DPad.

the controller I use the "model 2" controller , the one thats basically a Japanese controller.

this one, the bulkier controller did make it to Europe too

this is he controller that originally came out in the US and Europe for the Saturn launch , as you can see, a different D-pad and just generally bigger, but these were eventually replaced by the model 2 controller.

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

well , to each his own I guess, I actually read an interview with the creator of the DOA series, and he said Kasumi on the Saturn used more polygons then the one on the PS1 version, so he seems to agree with me at least.

that said, its a matter of taste, there are just as much people who prefer the Saturn version , as there are those who prefer the PS1 version (I own both versions, and prefer the Saturn one)

Also Panzer Dragoon Saga and Burning Rangers are probably the best looking 3D games on the Saturn overall, imo.

Darkman2007

I have had the pleasure of playing Panzer Dragoon Saga, and Burning Rangers, and I will agree with you ohn that. They do look very very good. Too bad Burning Rangers is seemingly forgotten by most, now that was a wonderful litttle game!

panzer dragoon saga was the most revoluionary rpg of the 90s no doubt. more so even than final fantasy 7. panzer dragoon saga was fully 3d and fully spoken dialogue as well as fully spoken fmv. not to mention the most extraordinary battle system that's never even been duplicated as well as the whole "desolate" atmosphere. no galore of city's or big party's just you and the dragon. in many ways it laid the foundation for games like ico and shadow of the colossus. again way ahead of their time and that is why saga is now so sought after on ebay.

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] and a game I think should have a sequel or a HD version . what amazed me about Panzer Saga was the atmosphere it had and the story, the battle system was very good too. graphically, its very interesting, because very few RPGs at that time were full 3D, most were either 2D (Lunar) , 3D characters with 2D backgrounds (the FF games ) , or 3D enviroments with 2D characters (Grandia , Xenogears) , PDS does everything in 3D, and it does it well too .Darkman2007

Yep Panzer dragoon Saga had an excellent story and your right about the 3D aspect of it. Again I think we need to see rereleases of some of these games, such as Saga and Burning Rangers need rereleases. Its kind of sad since Sega seems to fondly remember the Genesis and even the Dreamcast era but seems to have forgotten the Saturn era....

saturn sold 11 million, of which 7 million in japan. dreamcast sold 12 million of which 3 million in japan but was a huge succes in usa and especially uk. europe als did well. dreamcast had already sold 6 million dreamcasts in usa before end of 2000. only problem was lacking software sales

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

Yep Panzer dragoon Saga had an excellent story and your right about the 3D aspect of it. Again I think we need to see rereleases of some of these games, such as Saga and Burning Rangers need rereleases. Its kind of sad since Sega seems to fondly remember the Genesis and even the Dreamcast era but seems to have forgotten the Saturn era....

bultje112

saturn sold 11 million, of which 7 million in japan. dreamcast sold 12 million of which 3 million in japan but was a huge succes in usa and especially uk. europe als did well. dreamcast had already sold 6 million dreamcasts in usa before end of 2000. only problem was lacking software sales

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] in terms of sales, the Saturn and Dreamcast both sold around 9-10 million units, so both are technically , not successful, but the DC did better in the west, wheres the Saturn did better in Japan , so there is less of a market in the west. the sad thing is, that the Saturn was probably Sega's most supported system, they made or published alot of games on the system.Darkman2007

saturn sold 11 million, of which 7 million in japan. dreamcast sold 12 million of which 3 million in japan but was a huge succes in usa and especially uk. europe als did well. dreamcast had already sold 6 million dreamcasts in usa before end of 2000. only problem was lacking software sales

Exactly I donot know why he put his figures there, yours are close enough and your point came across. None the less, While the Saturn may be considered a failure, I think its a Great Console in its own right.

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] in terms of sales, the Saturn and Dreamcast both sold around 9-10 million units, so both are technically , not successful, but the DC did better in the west, wheres the Saturn did better in Japan , so there is less of a market in the west. the sad thing is, that the Saturn was probably Sega's most supported system, they made or published alot of games on the system.Darkman2007

saturn sold 11 million, of which 7 million in japan. dreamcast sold 12 million of which 3 million in japan but was a huge succes in usa and especially uk. europe als did well. dreamcast had already sold 6 million dreamcasts in usa before end of 2000. only problem was lacking software sales

A "huge success" that led to the system's discontinuation? I fail to see how the DC was a huge success anywhere. It had a good start, one of the best ever, even, but it wasn't enough.

The DC sold a lot of units in the west at clearance prices. That's something a lot of people often forget. Many of the popular shops in the US cleared their huge inventories by selling brand new DC units even as low as $50. That doesn't seem very successful to me.

Then there's the issue that both the SS and DC were sold at a loss in the first place. Most companies (with the exception of Nintendo nowadays) start selling their consoles for less than what it costs them to make. The real money comes from the software sales, since third parties have to pay for each and every released piece of software regardless of it is sells at the shop or not.

The main reason that allowed the SS to stay afloat is that it found a dedicated userbase in Japan. The system didn't had many million sellers, but in general SS software sales were extremelly decent in Japan, and it showed since the SS had the most third party support of any SEGA console. Even companies who never before and never again made games for a SEGA system (like ENIX for example) released at least one game for the SS.

As for why one console is considered more successful than the other is all a matter of perception. I guess a lot of people in the west at least saw DC games at their local stores. The DC had more releases in the west than the SS, and at least at first, most stores carried the system. In the case of the SS, it eventually became a pain in the arse to find games for it. Most of the late western releases had very limited prints in comparison to Japan, hence why they're so expensive nowadays.

Hell, a lot of people probably never saw a SS unit outside of the internet.

Oh, and don't forget media coverage. The DC had lightyears away the best media coverage any SEGA console ever got in the west. I don't think EGM ever put on their cover another console as much as they did with the DC. Or had as much feature-lenght articles about it. And I have most of their mags from the early 90s.

The media, all loved the DC. The system's failure certainly wasn't due to lack of praise or attention from them.

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="bultje112"]

saturn sold 11 million, of which 7 million in japan. dreamcast sold 12 million of which 3 million in japan but was a huge succes in usa and especially uk. europe als did well. dreamcast had already sold 6 million dreamcasts in usa before end of 2000. only problem was lacking software sales

Panzer_Zwei

A "huge success" that led to the system's discontinuation? I fail to see how the DC was a huge success anywhere. It had a good start, one of the best ever, even, but it wasn't enough.

The DC sold a lot of units in the west at clearance prices. That's something a lot of people often forget. Many of the popular shops in the US cleared their huge inventories by selling brand new DC units even as low as $50. That doesn't seem very successful to me.

Then there's the issue that both the SS and DC were sold at a loss in the first place. Most companies (with the exception of Nintendo nowadays) start selling their consoles for less than what it costs them to make. The real money comes from the software sales, since third parties have to pay for each and every released piece of software regardless of it is sells at the shop or not.

The main reason that allowed the SS to stay afloat is that it found a dedicated userbase in Japan. The system didn't had many million sellers, but in general SS software sales were extremelly decent in Japan, and it showed since the SS had the most third party support of any SEGA console. Even companies who never before and never again made games for a SEGA system (like ENIX for example) released at least one game for the SS.

As for why one console is considered more successful than the other is all a matter of perception. I guess a lot of people in the west at least saw DC games at their local stores. The DC had more releases in the west than the SS, and at least at first, most stores carried the system. In the case of the SS, it eventually became a pain in the arse to find games for it. Most of the late western releases had very limited prints in comparison to Japan, hence why they're so expensive nowadays.

Hell, a lot of people probably never saw a SS unit outside of the internet.

Oh, and don't forget media coverage. The DC had lightyears away the best media coverage any SEGA console ever got in the west. I don't think EGM ever put on their cover another console as much as they did with the DC. Or had as much feature-lenght articles about it. And I have most of their mags from the early 90s.

The media, all loved the DC. The system's failure certainly wasn't due to lack of praise or attention from them.

The media coverage for the DC Launch in particular was interesting. I remember even MTV was covering it, and the big signs of 9-9-99 are still there. It was a step above what they did for the Saturn, as their marketing for the Saturn was poor and they made poor decisions (Such as deciding to suddenly out of no where move the launch from September 1995, to May 1995. This is the US launch that is).

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] in terms of sales, the Saturn and Dreamcast both sold around 9-10 million units, so both are technically , not successful, but the DC did better in the west, wheres the Saturn did better in Japan , so there is less of a market in the west. the sad thing is, that the Saturn was probably Sega's most supported system, they made or published alot of games on the system.Darkman2007

saturn sold 11 million, of which 7 million in japan. dreamcast sold 12 million of which 3 million in japan but was a huge succes in usa and especially uk. europe als did well. dreamcast had already sold 6 million dreamcasts in usa before end of 2000. only problem was lacking software sales

and in japan it's the other way around. besides mouth to mouth is important here since I never ever heard anyone say anything bad about a dreamcast when they owned one.

and the figures do matter since dreamcast sold those within little more than 2 years and saturn in 4 years. you can do the math which one is selling better. it's a huge difference especially in the west. dreamcast also marked the most succesful console launch in history up to that point

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="bultje112"]

saturn sold 11 million, of which 7 million in japan. dreamcast sold 12 million of which 3 million in japan but was a huge succes in usa and especially uk. europe als did well. dreamcast had already sold 6 million dreamcasts in usa before end of 2000. only problem was lacking software sales

bultje112

and in japan it's the other way around. besides mouth to mouth is important here since I never ever heard anyone say anything bad about a dreamcast when they owned one.

and the figures do matter since dreamcast sold those within little more than 2 years and saturn in 4 years. you can do the math which one is selling better. it's a huge difference especially in the west. dreamcast also marked the most succesful console launch in history up to that point

youre also forgetting that for much of its life , the main competition for the DC was the PS1 and N64, not the PS2, it had an advantage in graphics and the next gen brand helped, and for a long time it was the only next gen console on the market.

on the other hand, the Saturn mostly competed against comparable consoles, and the press essentially gave Sega a particularly hard time regarding almost everthing (some of it deserved , some not)

so there is a difference in the market conditions

I was just looking at some of my old mags. EGM2 #1 from July,1994 to be precise. The 3DO was US$449 by then. The core 16-bit systems cost US$99 and in a bundle around US$130.

In my opinion, if you buy a 3DO now, you're most likely gonna get your money's worth. Hell, I certainly got a bang out of my PC-FX and it has a smaller library than the 3DO. The games (at least the Japanese versions) also go very cheaply. Policenauts only costs around US$24 on the 3DO. So understandably NOW you can go easy on systems like the 3DO and PC-FX.

Back then however, there's no doubt in mind that those systems were about the worst investmet you could've done on a gaming system, and everybody knew it (I remember GAMEFAN used to poke fun to the system and its userbase on a regular basis).

Regardless if the system had a few great games at the time, the 16-bit systems had hundreds of available software by then and cost only $99. The 32-bit systems that followed were also on a different level, there's no way the 3DO could've competed. Not to mention that the 3DO was hyped up the kazoo and it didn't delivered anything that it promised.

And by the way... there was really nothing more lamer than the Jaguar ads. They only showcased games that never came out, and even those looked terrible.

I was just looking at some of my old mags. EGM2 #1 from July,1994 to be precise. The 3DO was US$449 by then. The core 16-bit systems cost US$99 and in a bundle around US$130.

In my opinion, if you buy a 3DO now, you're most likely gonna get your money's worth. Hell, I certainly got a bang out of my PC-FX and it has a smaller library than the 3DO. The games (at least the Japanese versions) also go very cheaply. Policenauts only costs around US$24 on the 3DO. So understandably NOW you can go easy on systems like the 3DO and PC-FX.

Back then however, there's no doubt in mind that those systems were about the worst investmet you could've done on a gaming system, and everybody knew it (I remember GAMEFAN used to poke fun to the system and its userbase on a regular basis).

Regardless if the system had a few great games at the time, the 16-bit systems had hundreds of available software by then and cost only $99. The 32-bit systems that followed were also on a different level, there's no way the 3DO could've competed. Not to mention that the 3DO was hyped up the kazoo and it didn't delivered anything that it promised.

And by the way... there was really nothing more lamer than the Jaguar ads. They only showcased games that never came out, and even those looked terrible.

Panzer_Zwei

So that said what are your thoughts on the aborted M2 than?

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

I was just looking at some of my old mags. EGM2 #1 from July,1994 to be precise. The 3DO was US$449 by then. The core 16-bit systems cost US$99 and in a bundle around US$130.

In my opinion, if you buy a 3DO now, you're most likely gonna get your money's worth. Hell, I certainly got a bang out of my PC-FX and it has a smaller library than the 3DO. The games (at least the Japanese versions) also go very cheaply. Policenauts only costs around US$24 on the 3DO. So understandably NOW you can go easy on systems like the 3DO and PC-FX.

Back then however, there's no doubt in mind that those systems were about the worst investmet you could've done on a gaming system, and everybody knew it (I remember GAMEFAN used to poke fun to the system and its userbase on a regular basis).

Regardless if the system had a few great games at the time, the 16-bit systems had hundreds of available software by then and cost only $99. The 32-bit systems that followed were also on a different level, there's no way the 3DO could've competed. Not to mention that the 3DO was hyped up the kazoo and it didn't delivered anything that it promised.

And by the way... there was really nothing more lamer than the Jaguar ads. They only showcased games that never came out, and even those looked terrible.

TheTrueMagusX1

So that said what are your thoughts on the aborted M2 than?

Stil, many magazines kept M2 listed as one of the systems that they were covering, during that year.

The 3DO has some interesting Japanese games. I have 3 and never owned the system. If I wasn't into other systems at the moment, I probably would have one by now.

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

I was just looking at some of my old mags. EGM2 #1 from July,1994 to be precise. The 3DO was US$449 by then. The core 16-bit systems cost US$99 and in a bundle around US$130.

In my opinion, if you buy a 3DO now, you're most likely gonna get your money's worth. Hell, I certainly got a bang out of my PC-FX and it has a smaller library than the 3DO. The games (at least the Japanese versions) also go very cheaply. Policenauts only costs around US$24 on the 3DO. So understandably NOW you can go easy on systems like the 3DO and PC-FX.

Back then however, there's no doubt in mind that those systems were about the worst investmet you could've done on a gaming system, and everybody knew it (I remember GAMEFAN used to poke fun to the system and its userbase on a regular basis).

Regardless if the system had a few great games at the time, the 16-bit systems had hundreds of available software by then and cost only $99. The 32-bit systems that followed were also on a different level, there's no way the 3DO could've competed. Not to mention that the 3DO was hyped up the kazoo and it didn't delivered anything that it promised.

And by the way... there was really nothing more lamer than the Jaguar ads. They only showcased games that never came out, and even those looked terrible.

Panzer_Zwei

So that said what are your thoughts on the aborted M2 than?

Stil, many magazines kept M2 listed as one of the systems that they were covering, during that year.

The 3DO has some interesting Japanese games. I have 3 and never owned the system. If I wasn't into other systems at the moment, I probably would have one by now.

Interesting. Now if I remember correctly, was not the story for the original M2 version of D2 darker I guess you could say. Something about Laura being pregnant and than her unborn child being stolen from her womb, being aged quickly and than forced back into Medieval times? That sounds a bit more messed up to me than the D2 Dreamcast version we got.

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

So that said what are your thoughts on the aborted M2 than?

TheTrueMagusX1

Stil, many magazines kept M2 listed as one of the systems that they were covering, during that year.

The 3DO has some interesting Japanese games. I have 3 and never owned the system. If I wasn't into other systems at the moment, I probably would have one by now.

Interesting. Now if I remember correctly, was not the story for the original M2 version of D2 darker I guess you could say. Something about Laura being pregnant and than her unborn child being stolen from her womb, being aged quickly and than forced back into Medieval times? That sounds a bit more messed up to me than the D2 Dreamcast version we got.

I was reading the GAMEFAN review of D's Diner (SS version). They gave it 80, 92 and 90.

They also reviewed Lunar: Eternal Blue for the Mega-CD. They gave it 90, 92, 90. They praise it as one of the best RPGs of all time, but bash Working Designs into oblivion for breaking the game's mechanics and changing the script with their usual nonsense.

I find it interesting how many consoles were competing for customers back in those days. You had the 16-bit consoles like SNES and Genesis, 32-bit consoles like PS1 and Sega Saturn, the Atari Jaguar, the 3DO, Amiga CD32, the N64, Neo Geo, ect. And not to mention all the CD and other add-ons these consoles had and computers like the PC and Amiga. In comparison, today we have only three home consoles and the PC. I think many companies back then thought that consoles will bring them profit, but only a few succeeded.

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] I don't see why they couldnt have used the Saturn D-pad, its far better and more comfortable to use.Panzer_Zwei

the saturn's D-pad is too mushy

the DC's real problem is that horrible analog stick and the fact that it only has one analog

If you're from Europe then it's very likely that you've experienced the smaller controller with the inferior d-pad.

i'm from europe yeah, anyway this is the controller I own

not a big fan of it though

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]I enjoyed the previews of the games that never came out for it (that's why I like going over old mags really). D2 looked a bit like Nightmare Creatures. I remember an interview with its creator Kenji Eno in 1995 (D on the 3DO got AAA's all over the board back then). They asked him if he thought the M2 was still gonna make it, and he said that no, that it was too late. That was the end of that, really.

Stil, many magazines kept M2 listed as one of the systems that they were covering, during that year.

The 3DO has some interesting Japanese games. I have 3 and never owned the system. If I wasn't into other systems at the moment, I probably would have one by now.

Panzer_Zwei

Interesting. Now if I remember correctly, was not the story for the original M2 version of D2 darker I guess you could say. Something about Laura being pregnant and than her unborn child being stolen from her womb, being aged quickly and than forced back into Medieval times? That sounds a bit more messed up to me than the D2 Dreamcast version we got.

I was reading the GAMEFAN review of D's Diner (SS version). They gave it 80, 92 and 90.

They also reviewed Lunar: Eternal Blue for the Mega-CD. They gave it 90, 92, 90. They praise it as one of the best RPGs of all time, but bash Working Designs into oblivion for breaking the game's mechanics and changing the script with their usual nonsense.

Yeah I was just doing some research and that story I told you was the original version of the game. As for Lunar, I been a big fan of WDs translation thougH I do know that not everyone likes them and they did change alot in their translations, I do like them personally.

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

[QUOTE="ohthemanatee"]really? I actually like DC's D-pad better than the saturn's D-PAD.

the saturn's D-pad is too mushy

the DC's real problem is that horrible analog stick and the fact that it only has one analog

ohthemanatee

If you're from Europe then it's very likely that you've experienced the smaller controller with the inferior d-pad.

i'm from europe yeah, anyway this is the controller I own

not a big fan of it though

really? I think its the most comfortable controller out of any controller ive used. to each his own I guess.

I've never played a Jaguar, always wanted to because of Aliens vs. Predators. BUT I did have a 3DO with lots of games, I actually played my 3DO a lot when i had it. It was a lot of fun. Road Rash, Need for Speed, Fifa, Slam n Jam, Gex, I know I'm missing some games that I played a lot on it, but it's hard remembering what I had exactly.

^^If that helps any^^ :question:

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] regardless of which figuers are correct, my point still stands, both consoles had similar sales figures, yet its the Dreamcast that gets worshipped for some reason. but the Saturn is considerd a failureDarkman2007

and in japan it's the other way around. besides mouth to mouth is important here since I never ever heard anyone say anything bad about a dreamcast when they owned one.

and the figures do matter since dreamcast sold those within little more than 2 years and saturn in 4 years. you can do the math which one is selling better. it's a huge difference especially in the west. dreamcast also marked the most succesful console launch in history up to that point

youre also forgetting that for much of its life , the main competition for the DC was the PS1 and N64, not the PS2, it had an advantage in graphics and the next gen brand helped, and for a long time it was the only next gen console on the market.

on the other hand, the Saturn mostly competed against comparable consoles, and the press essentially gave Sega a particularly hard time regarding almost everthing (some of it deserved , some not)

so there is a difference in the market conditions

sega had 15 months unopposed against ps2 until it got released in february 2000 in japan. ps2 kicked dreamcasts ass meaning I wouldn't even count the japanese dreamcast run(also thanks to nec with limited chips at launch for dreamcast). in rest of the world it ran from fall 99 till fall 2000 until ps2 came out. dreamcast had sold more than 6 million dreamcasts in 1 year by end of 2000. which was an incredible number at that time 2x as much as saturn did in basically 4 years in the usa and also 1 million more than sega had hoped for. so dreamcast was wayyy more succesful than saturn. dreamcast was 199$ from launch till september 2000 and then became 150$ until midway through 2001, most dreamcasts weren't cleared in the 50$ clearance bins at all

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

So that said what are your thoughts on the aborted M2 than?

TheTrueMagusX1

Stil, many magazines kept M2 listed as one of the systems that they were covering, during that year.

The 3DO has some interesting Japanese games. I have 3 and never owned the system. If I wasn't into other systems at the moment, I probably would have one by now.

Interesting. Now if I remember correctly, was not the story for the original M2 version of D2 darker I guess you could say. Something about Laura being pregnant and than her unborn child being stolen from her womb, being aged quickly and than forced back into Medieval times? That sounds a bit more messed up to me than the D2 Dreamcast version we got.

actually you can look the video up on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nmy6XQSDr0

to me this is clearly vlad dracula, the most gruesome ruler in history of mankind. look up some of his story's they go beyond your imagination what he did. excellent theme for a d horror game. the d2 for dreamcast was awesome too but still wish he would've done this one also

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"]

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

and in japan it's the other way around. besides mouth to mouth is important here since I never ever heard anyone say anything bad about a dreamcast when they owned one.

and the figures do matter since dreamcast sold those within little more than 2 years and saturn in 4 years. you can do the math which one is selling better. it's a huge difference especially in the west. dreamcast also marked the most succesful console launch in history up to that point

bultje112

youre also forgetting that for much of its life , the main competition for the DC was the PS1 and N64, not the PS2, it had an advantage in graphics and the next gen brand helped, and for a long time it was the only next gen console on the market.

on the other hand, the Saturn mostly competed against comparable consoles, and the press essentially gave Sega a particularly hard time regarding almost everthing (some of it deserved , some not)

so there is a difference in the market conditions

sega had 15 months unopposed against ps2 until it got released in february 2000 in japan. ps2 kicked dreamcasts ass meaning I wouldn't even count the japanese dreamcast run(also thanks to nec with limited chips at launch for dreamcast). in rest of the world it ran from fall 99 till fall 2000 until ps2 came out. dreamcast had sold more than 6 million dreamcasts in 1 year by end of 2000. which was an incredible number at that time 2x as much as saturn did in basically 4 years in the usa and also 1 million more than sega had hoped for. so dreamcast was wayyy more succesful than saturn. dreamcast was 199$ from launch till september 2000 and then became 150$ until midway through 2001, most dreamcasts weren't cleared in the 50$ clearance bins at all

I went to check the sales figures at vgchartz.com for hardware sales.

according to them the Saturn sold 8.82 million and the DC sold 8.20 million .

so according to them the Saturn outsold the DC.

whichever the figure was the correct it doesn't matter, what matters is how much money did Sega make from each , and the result for both would be a loss, since its doubtful they made any money from either system.

http://www.vgchartz.com/hardware_totals.php

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"] the dreamcast was around for longer then 2 years, from the end of 1998 to the end of 2001, so really 3 years. even then , there were still Dreamcasts being sold at bargain bin prices.

youre also forgetting that for much of its life , the main competition for the DC was the PS1 and N64, not the PS2, it had an advantage in graphics and the next gen brand helped, and for a long time it was the only next gen console on the market.

on the other hand, the Saturn mostly competed against comparable consoles, and the press essentially gave Sega a particularly hard time regarding almost everthing (some of it deserved , some not)

so there is a difference in the market conditions

Darkman2007

sega had 15 months unopposed against ps2 until it got released in february 2000 in japan. ps2 kicked dreamcasts ass meaning I wouldn't even count the japanese dreamcast run(also thanks to nec with limited chips at launch for dreamcast). in rest of the world it ran from fall 99 till fall 2000 until ps2 came out. dreamcast had sold more than 6 million dreamcasts in 1 year by end of 2000. which was an incredible number at that time 2x as much as saturn did in basically 4 years in the usa and also 1 million more than sega had hoped for. so dreamcast was wayyy more succesful than saturn. dreamcast was 199$ from launch till september 2000 and then became 150$ until midway through 2001, most dreamcasts weren't cleared in the 50$ clearance bins at all

they are from the segabase articles about the dreamcast who listed dreamcast sales hardware and software. dreamcas6t was a big succes hardware/wise but not software wise for multiple reasons not the least of them piracy.

dreamcast was supported until march 2001. after that it was done, games were still released yeah but they cancelled whatever they could. there´s a list somewhere online with canceled dreamcast games during that time, over 200 I believe. it´s like saying megadrive was supported after 1996. on paper perhaps a little in europe but in reality nothing

sega posted a netto win of few million dollars in 2000. they lost 450 millionb dollars in 1998, 350 in 1997 and 100 in 1999(as was projected in 1999). imagine if saturn had sold the way dreamcast did, it would not have been a failure, as sega had more reserves. sega was so far in debts by time dreamcast came it was not possible especially when okawa died, the boss who put 1 billion dollar of his own money into sega to keep it afloat for dreamcast launch.

dreamcast was always supposed to be the last sega console, okawa already said in 1999 that dreamcast was sega's last hardware endeavour.

sega posted a netto win of few million dollars in 2000. they lost 450 millionb dollars in 1998, 350 in 1997 and 250 in 1999(not exatcly sure about 1999). imagine if saturn had sold the way dreamcast did, it would not have been a failure, as sega had more reserves. sega was so far in debts by time dreamcast came it was not possible especially when okawa died, the boss who put 1 billion dollar of his own money into sega to keep it afloat for dreamcast launch.

bultje112

though in the end I couldn't care less how much the DC sold, its really all about the games, and personally I feel the Saturn has the better game library.

[QUOTE="TheTrueMagusX1"]

[QUOTE="Panzer_Zwei"]I enjoyed the previews of the games that never came out for it (that's why I like going over old mags really). D2 looked a bit like Nightmare Creatures. I remember an interview with its creator Kenji Eno in 1995 (D on the 3DO got AAA's all over the board back then). They asked him if he thought the M2 was still gonna make it, and he said that no, that it was too late. That was the end of that, really.

Stil, many magazines kept M2 listed as one of the systems that they were covering, during that year.

The 3DO has some interesting Japanese games. I have 3 and never owned the system. If I wasn't into other systems at the moment, I probably would have one by now.

bultje112

Interesting. Now if I remember correctly, was not the story for the original M2 version of D2 darker I guess you could say. Something about Laura being pregnant and than her unborn child being stolen from her womb, being aged quickly and than forced back into Medieval times? That sounds a bit more messed up to me than the D2 Dreamcast version we got.

actually you can look the video up on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nmy6XQSDr0

to me this is clearly vlad dracula, the most gruesome ruler in history of mankind. look up some of his story's they go beyond your imagination what he did. excellent theme for a d horror game. the d2 for dreamcast was awesome too but still wish he would've done this one also

Yep both synopsis are right, as the original D Game also did with vampires, and I looked up the story and I was right but it also did involve Dracula so both you and I are right.

[QUOTE="bultje112"]

sega posted a netto win of few million dollars in 2000. they lost 450 millionb dollars in 1998, 350 in 1997 and 250 in 1999(not exatcly sure about 1999). imagine if saturn had sold the way dreamcast did, it would not have been a failure, as sega had more reserves. sega was so far in debts by time dreamcast came it was not possible especially when okawa died, the boss who put 1 billion dollar of his own money into sega to keep it afloat for dreamcast launch.

Darkman2007

I already explained to you that dreamcast didn't last any longer because the sega boss okawa died and without his guidance they knew all too well sega was too far in the hole to recover and decided first to let all studios develop for other consoles and stof manufacturing any more dreamcast consoles.

though in the end I couldn't care less how much the DC sold, its really all about the games, and personally I feel the Saturn has the better game library.

Darkman2007

saturn is my most favorite console ever, but quanity/quality wise dreamcast is the best console ever made i think. there are at least over a hundred good games on dreamcast. saturn featured the best games I've ever played like panzer dragoon saga, saturn was like a all or nothing console with it;s games while dreamcast maintained a higher overall quality in games but not as exceptional as some saturn games except shenmue (2)

also to me saturn has more sega feel to it. I can't back it up but that is just how it feels, even better arcade games than dreamcast

[QUOTE="Darkman2007"][QUOTE="bultje112"]

sega posted a netto win of few million dollars in 2000. they lost 450 millionb dollars in 1998, 350 in 1997 and 250 in 1999(not exatcly sure about 1999). imagine if saturn had sold the way dreamcast did, it would not have been a failure, as sega had more reserves. sega was so far in debts by time dreamcast came it was not possible especially when okawa died, the boss who put 1 billion dollar of his own money into sega to keep it afloat for dreamcast launch.

bultje112

I already explained to you that dreamcast didn't last any longer because the sega boss okawa died and without his guidance they knew all too well sega was too far in the hole to recover and decided first to let all studios develop for other consoles and stof manufacturing any more dreamcast consoles.

This decision actually hurt the Japanese division since they became forced to sell refurbished untis through their website.

In various interviews, the former SoA president Simon Jeffery also stated that the Japanese branch were very reluctant to let go of the system, and that they even had plans to re-enter the hardware bussiness with another system.