About the Zelda Formula

As you all know allot of zelda games follow the same basic plot strucure:

Beginning, 3 levels, encounter with final boss- something goes wrong, more levels, final boss, endgame.

Do you think the next Zelda should follow this?!

I think it should because it helps move the story along. And that part in the middle is usually alot of fun.

This Formula is kind of like beating the game twice.

You forgot:find A new item in the next temple,use it to defeat the boss in the temple.SuperSmashBro1

The formula works, so I wouldn't even think of Nintendo changing it.

The formula works, so I wouldn't even think of Nintendo changing it.

mkDSpro63

Well that structure has been working for a long time, the next one might be the same, unless Myamoto surprises us.WR_Platinum

Didn't Miyamoto state that Twilight Princess was the last traditional Zelda game. If this is true, then I'd be a bit happier.
I agree that the structure does work, but it has been getting a bit stale.

[QUOTE="SuperSmashBro1"]You forgot:find A new item in the next temple,use it to defeat the boss in the temple.alphamale1989

This is another thing I sometimes have a problem with. Often, the items you get have limited use. E.g.: The wand from TP, the spinner from TP.

The wand was used quite a lot in its dungeon, but mostly in that dungeon alone. I know it was important in the story, but it did very little for the gameplay. The spinner was one of my favorite new items, unfortunately, it also had little use. The problem with these two items was that they interacted only with a specific element in the world, the statues for the wand and the rails for the spinner.

The formula works, so I wouldn't even think of Nintendo changing it.

mkDSpro63

Candles work. Would you replace your electric lamps by candles?

[QUOTE="WR_Platinum"]Well that structure has been working for a long time, the next one might be the same, unless Myamoto surprises us.tonitrus_acutus

Didn't Miyamoto state that Twilight Princess was the last traditional Zelda game. If this is true, then I'd be a bit happier.
I agree that the structure does work, but it has been getting a bit stale.

He did say so, and this E3 he confirmed Zelda needs "new big unique ideas" and the team is working hard to find them.

Sure it works, but it's getting old. It needs to be shaken up and mixed up a bit.

They said TP was the last of its kind.rcignoni

Good thing, too.

But I have a feeling that people here are going to be upset when the next Zelda is announced and it's not what they expect.

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]They said TP was the last of its kind.Dark_Link142

Good thing, too.

But I have a feeling that people here are going to be upset when the next Zelda is announced and it's not what they expect.

It's not like we can expet something, we have no single clue what will be done with Zelda.

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]They said TP was the last of its kind.Dark_Link142

Good thing, too.

But I have a feeling that people here are going to be upset when the next Zelda is announced and it's not what they expect.

[QUOTE="Dark_Link142"]

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]They said TP was the last of its kind.Wintry_Flutist

Good thing, too.

But I have a feeling that people here are going to be upset when the next Zelda is announced and it's not what they expect.

It's not like we can expet something, we have no single clue what will be done with Zelda.

The people in this thread don't even know about the "TP being the last of it's kind". That being said, yeah, we don't know what to expect. But people fear change in something they've grown so used to.

But I'm pretty sure most people just expect another Zelda game to follow the same formula, except with proper Wii controls.

The people in this thread don't even know about the "TP being the last of it's kind". That being said, yeah, we don't know what to expect. But people fear change in something they've grown so used to.

But I'm pretty sure most people just expect another Zelda game to follow the same formula, except with proper Wii controls.

Dark_Link142

Well, for one, I'll just let Miyamoto/Aonuma do their work. :P

If they have fun making the game, we're in for a winner, not matter what it will be.

[QUOTE="Dark_Link142"]

The people in this thread don't even know about the "TP being the last of it's kind". That being said, yeah, we don't know what to expect. But people fear change in something they've grown so used to.

But I'm pretty sure most people just expect another Zelda game to follow the same formula, except with proper Wii controls.

Wintry_Flutist

Well, for one, I'll just let Miyamoto/Aonuma do their work. :P

If they have fun making the game, we're in for a winner, not matter what it will be.

True enough.

I was randomly thinking...if Wind Waker had sailing, and Oot, MM, and TP had horseback riding, why not have those PLUS flight in the next game? :lol: Zelda games have conquered the sea and the land. Throw in a giant bird with a saddle and you have a winner :P.

True enough.

I was randomly thinking...if Wind Waker had sailing, and Oot, MM, and TP had horseback riding, why not have those PLUS flight in the next game? :lol: Zelda games have conquered the sea and the land. Throw in a giant bird with a saddle and you have a winner :P.

Dark_Link142

I expected this to be in TP, because of the promised animal interaction, and the confirmation Link would be able to ride other animals besides the horse. It was even said in an interview Link would be able to fly at some point...

It ended up the only animal you can ride besides the horse is the boar (with super limited controls) and the flight was that balloon poping minigame... :(

I expected this to be in TP, because of the promised animal interaction, and the confirmation Link would be able to ride other animals besides the horse. It was even said in an interview Link would be able to fly at some point...

It ended up the only animal you can ride besides the horse is the boar (with super limited controls) and the flight was that balloon poping minigame... :(

Wintry_Flutist

Oh, I actually remember that being said. It's too bad. The boar is kind of lame.

I also think they should add that weapons feature they had in Wind Waker. Whenever an enemy drops their weapon, you can pick it up and use it. Sure, it was limited, but the idea of it was great and it was fun throwing spears at enemies :P.

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

I expected this to be in TP, because of the promised animal interaction, and the confirmation Link would be able to ride other animals besides the horse. It was even said in an interview Link would be able to fly at some point...

It ended up the only animal you can ride besides the horse is the boar (with super limited controls) and the flight was that balloon poping minigame... :(

Dark_Link142

Oh, I actually remember that being said. It's too bad. The boar is kind of lame.

I also think they should add that weapons feature they had in Wind Waker. Whenever an enemy drops their weapon, you can pick it up and use it. Sure, it was limited, but the idea of it was great and it was fun throwing spears at enemies :P.

That certainly needs to become standard in Zelda. 3 swords/3 shields/3 tunics/etc, that kind of system was interesting and even epic in the 90s... I hate myself for saying that, but Zelda has to catch up some modern standards (and to think years ago Zelda was the sole standard to be caught up...).

That certainly needs to become standard in Zelda. 3 swords/3 shields/3 tunics/etc, that kind of system was interesting and even epic in the 90s... I hate myself for saying that, but Zelda has to catch up some modern standards (and to think years ago Zelda was the sole standard to be caught up...).

Wintry_Flutist

It's kind of sad :(. They tried that 3 tunic thing in TP. Wow, that didn't work out at all. The Zora tunic was alright and served its purpose, albeit it looked rather awkward.

And the Magic Armour...yikes. At least there's finally a use for Rupees :P. It looked sort of cool at least, even though it looked too big for Link.

It's kind of sad :(. They tried that 3 tunic thing in TP. Wow, that didn't work out at all. The Zora tunic was alright and served its purpose, albeit it looked rather awkward.

And the Magic Armour...yikes. At least there's finally a use for Rupees :P. It looked sort of cool at least, even though it looked too big for Link.

Dark_Link142

Which reminds me Link should have been able to swim underwater without the Zora tunic, as shown in a trailer. I was OMGWTFBBQ when I saw that, that really would have given Zelda a 100% exploration freedom vibe, yet it was canned to rehash the tunic system...Oh, well.

[QUOTE="Dark_Link142"]

It's kind of sad :(. They tried that 3 tunic thing in TP. Wow, that didn't work out at all. The Zora tunic was alright and served its purpose, albeit it looked rather awkward.

And the Magic Armour...yikes. At least there's finally a use for Rupees :P. It looked sort of cool at least, even though it looked too big for Link.

Wintry_Flutist

Which reminds me Link should have been able to swim underwater without the Zora tunic, as shown in a trailer. I was OMGWTFBBQ when I saw that, that really would have given Zelda a 100% exploration freedom vibe, yet it was canned to rehash the tunic system...Oh, well.

Oh yeah, I was surprised to see Link go underwater without any special tunic. That whole video was made of win. Most of it was removed though. I think they may have even taken out an entire forest area from the game. The "Lost Woods" in TP were a bit linear, although admittedly a bit confusing, but weren't the same as the ones in one of the videos, despite having the same creepy puppet enemies.

Oh yeah, I was surprised to see Link go underwater without any special tunic. That whole video was made of win. Most of it was removed though. I think they may have even taken out an entire forest area from the game. The "Lost Woods" in TP were a bit linear, although admittedly a bit confusing, but weren't the same as the ones in one of the videos, despite having the same creepy puppet enemies.

Dark_Link142

Well, the list goes on. But here is hope Nintendo will do it right this time.

But you know what?! Thier are "people" out thier who would have it changed. These are terrible people and while they may sound like fans they only have one goal- to completley destroy the Zelda franchise. It just makes me shudder to think that thier are such people on this site as we speak.

alphamale1989

Oh, so new ideas are bad? I guess that's ok, if you want to keep playing the same game. That will be fun...

The people who want some new ideas are trying to SAVE Zelda. YOU are the one destroying the Zelda franchise. I have been a Zelda fan for 6-7 years. I loved TP, but I agree that it's time for some minor change. I'm not saying annialate the formula, but please just change it up. I'm not talking Link in NYC, but maybe he could go do something unique that hasn't done yet.

It just makes me shudder to think that thier are such people on this site as we speak who don't want a little change in Zelda.

lol

But you know what?! Thier are "people" out thier who would have it changed. These are terrible people and while they may sound like fans they only have one goal- to completley destroy the Zelda franchise. It just makes me shudder to think that thier are such people on this site as we speak.

alphamale1989

I see this true fan of Zelda wishes Zelda Wii to be a direct sequel - specially gameplay wise - of The Legend of Zelda on NES.

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]They said TP was the last of its kind.Dark_Link142

Good thing, too.

But I have a feeling that people here are going to be upset when the next Zelda is announced and it's not what they expect.

What Nintendo promises and what Nintendo delivers are oftentimes very different things. Don't be surprised when the big, unique ideas look a lot like the classic formula with one or two unique concepts that go hand-in-hand with the Wiimote itself.

[QUOTE="Dark_Link142"]

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]They said TP was the last of its kind.helium_flash

Good thing, too.

But I have a feeling that people here are going to be upset when the next Zelda is announced and it's not what they expect.

What Nintendo promises and what Nintendo delivers are oftentimes very different things. Don't be surprised when the big, unique ideas look a lot like the classic formula with one or two unique concepts that go hand-in-hand with the Wiimote itself.

But the context is totally different now. Nintendo changed TP because fan service would guarantee sales, and they needed them for the Wii (although starting as an unique concept than changing it to fan service leaded to many flaws). It worked, but it also raised the demand for imminent change.

I see no problem with the formula they use, sure they will need to include/change more things in the new game. But I hope they keep the general feel off the game the same.Carroll-06

Thats the important thing; the FEEL of the game. Fortunately, I think the basic feel of Zelda was kept with TP. And there were more changes in the game than we'd like to admit. The whole wolf transformation, using spirits instead of faeries, the fighting mechanics, and of course, Midna(who's involvement saved TP from being a weak version of OoT).

A problem I saw with TP was the landscape. Though it was beautiful, it was almost a mirror image of the map for OoT. The Forest/Fire/Water temples were even in the same order. And though they added temples, they were laughably easy when it came to combat. The only difficult characters(Darknuts, Ice Warriors) only showed up near the end of the game, and then not often.There should have been a hard setting, at least after clearing the game once.

Well that structure has been working for a long time, the next one might be the same, unless Myamoto surprises us.WR_Platinum

you mean auonuma, miyamoto doesn't take direct control over zelda anymore

and no, I don't think it should follow the same structure, games falling into a structure makes developers lazy, they see the structure and just create more of the same. I think they should change the structure all together actually

not have all the game have wandering sections above ground then go down below ground for a dungeon, it's all very obvious which is which, they should shake it up and have it less structured

[QUOTE="Dark_Link142"]

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]They said TP was the last of its kind.helium_flash

Good thing, too.

But I have a feeling that people here are going to be upset when the next Zelda is announced and it's not what they expect.

What Nintendo promises and what Nintendo delivers are oftentimes very different things. Don't be surprised when the big, unique ideas look a lot like the classic formula with one or two unique concepts that go hand-in-hand with the Wiimote itself.

actually no they didn't, they said it would be the only one to have animal interaction... and it was. YOU TURN INTO A FLIPPING WOLF and you can talk to all the animals as well, often you have to talk to them.

as for the rest of it, they announced many times during the development that it was the last of it's kind (so indeed announcing that it would be the same way as before)

actually no they didn't, they said it would be the only one to have animal interaction... and it was. YOU TURN INTO A FLIPPING WOLF and you can talk to all the animals as well, often you have to talk to them.

as for the rest of it, they announced many times during the development that it was the last of it's kind (so indeed announcing that it would be the same way as before)

monty_4256

Dude, don't lie to yourself. They announced animal interaction (going as far as saying Link would ride a flying animal) as the main mechanic of the game, in other words as it if were as huge as the masks are in Majora's Mask. Turned out animal interaction was a minor and irrelevant detail. Even the wolf is more of a burden than a worthy addition (hookshot + lens of truth + shovel, oh my, the innovation).

[QUOTE="monty_4256"]

actually no they didn't, they said it would be the only one to have animal interaction... and it was. YOU TURN INTO A FLIPPING WOLF and you can talk to all the animals as well, often you have to talk to them.

as for the rest of it, they announced many times during the development that it was the last of it's kind (so indeed announcing that it would be the same way as before)

Wintry_Flutist

Dude, don't lie to yourself. They announced animal interaction (going as far as saying Link would ride a flying animal) as the main mechanic of the game, in other words as it if were as huge as the masks are in Majora's Mask. Turned out animal interaction was a minor and irrelevant detail. Even the wolf is more of a burden than a worthy addition (hookshot + lens of truth + shovel, oh my, the innovation).

hmm well I never heard them saying that, I remember a nintendo power issue trying to blow it out of proportion, but I never really listened to them, I think it was a leak rather than an interview

They said TP was the last of its kind.rcignoni

A few months later...the Legend of Zelda phantom hourglass

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]They said TP was the last of its kind.SuperSmashBro1

A few months later...the Legend of Zelda phantom hourglass

The point being...?

This game has to do something HUGE for the series imo. Not only does nintendo have to cater to the fans of the series, but Casuals as well. They did it pretty well with SMG but.......Mario has always been playable by everyone.

I honestly don't expect it do go into 1st person because that big of a change would upset millions, and most likely be considered the AoL of the 3d games. Imo, I think that would be very difficult to transform the series into a completly different type of game. It's possible, Oblivion does it pretty good...but does Zelda need a dramatic change of the caliber??? I don't think so to be honest.

Maybe the series needs to take that direction, maybe it needs to stay in the 3rd person perspective and change the formula. That's not up to us...I just know Nintendo has a huge responsibility in changing one of the most famous franchises in video game history.

RE4 changed to the "over the shoulder" type of camera angle and received positive reviews. So let's hope Nintendo has an ACE up their sleeves like Capcom did.

This game has to do something HUGE for the series imo. Not only does nintendo have to cater to the fans of the series, but Casuals as well. They did it pretty well with SMG but.......Mario has always been playable by everyone.

I honestly don't expect it do go into 1st person because that big of a change would upset millions, and most likely be considered the AoL of the 3d games. Imo, I think that would be very difficult to transform the series into a completly different type of game. It's possible, Oblivion does it pretty good...but does Zelda need a dramatic change of the caliber??? I don't think so to be honest.

Maybe the series needs to take that direction, maybe it needs to stay in the 3rd person perspective and change the formula. That's not up to us...I just know Nintendo has a huge responsibility in changing one of the most famous franchises in video game history.

RE4 changed to the "over the shoulder" type of camera angle and received positive reviews. So let's hope Nintendo has an ACE up their sleeves like Capcom did.

danger_ranger95

That said, I think Zelda is fine gameplay-wise, it just needs more work in the story and layout department. And very little motion-controlled crap.

[QUOTE="danger_ranger95"]

This game has to do something HUGE for the series imo. Not only does nintendo have to cater to the fans of the series, but Casuals as well. They did it pretty well with SMG but.......Mario has always been playable by everyone.

I honestly don't expect it do go into 1st person because that big of a change would upset millions, and most likely be considered the AoL of the 3d games. Imo, I think that would be very difficult to transform the series into a completly different type of game. It's possible, Oblivion does it pretty good...but does Zelda need a dramatic change of the caliber??? I don't think so to be honest.

Maybe the series needs to take that direction, maybe it needs to stay in the 3rd person perspective and change the formula. That's not up to us...I just know Nintendo has a huge responsibility in changing one of the most famous franchises in video game history.

RE4 changed to the "over the shoulder" type of camera angle and received positive reviews. So let's hope Nintendo has an ACE up their sleeves like Capcom did.

Ovirew

That said, I think Zelda is fine gameplay-wise, it just needs more work in the story and layout department. And very little motion-controlled crap.

although I agree, and did not enjoy SMG like a lot of other people did.....What I meant was (using Mario as an example) anyone has always been able to pick up and play Mario games. Whether it be hardcore or casual....that's just Mario. (well besides Sunshine imo) SMG followed that ever lasting Mario "pick up and play" style.

Nintendo will have a harder time doing so with Zelda imo. I've never known Zelda to be a "casual" type of game, unless I just don't talk to enough people.

[QUOTE="Ovirew"][QUOTE="danger_ranger95"]

This game has to do something HUGE for the series imo. Not only does nintendo have to cater to the fans of the series, but Casuals as well. They did it pretty well with SMG but.......Mario has always been playable by everyone.

I honestly don't expect it do go into 1st person because that big of a change would upset millions, and most likely be considered the AoL of the 3d games. Imo, I think that would be very difficult to transform the series into a completly different type of game. It's possible, Oblivion does it pretty good...but does Zelda need a dramatic change of the caliber??? I don't think so to be honest.

Maybe the series needs to take that direction, maybe it needs to stay in the 3rd person perspective and change the formula. That's not up to us...I just know Nintendo has a huge responsibility in changing one of the most famous franchises in video game history.

RE4 changed to the "over the shoulder" type of camera angle and received positive reviews. So let's hope Nintendo has an ACE up their sleeves like Capcom did.

danger_ranger95

That said, I think Zelda is fine gameplay-wise, it just needs more work in the story and layout department. And very little motion-controlled crap.

although I agree, and did not enjoy SMG like a lot of other people did.....What I meant was (using Mario as an example) anyone has always been able to pick up and play Mario games. Whether it be hardcore or casual....that's just Mario. (well besides Sunshine imo) SMG followed that ever lasting Mario "pick up and play" style.

Nintendo will have a harder time doing so with Zelda imo. I've never known Zelda to be a "casual" type of game, unless I just don't talk to enough people.

Zelda just shoudn't be a casual game. I think Phantom Hourglass was a fantastic game for people new to Zelda, that did an okay job of being casual. It still wasn't exactly simple, but much more simplistic and user-friendly.

[QUOTE="SuperSmashBro1"]

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]They said TP was the last of its kind.Wintry_Flutist

A few months later...the Legend of Zelda phantom hourglass

The point being...?

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="SuperSmashBro1"]

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]They said TP was the last of its kind.SuperSmashBro1

A few months later...the Legend of Zelda phantom hourglass

The point being...?

PH represents a lot of the "new kind" of Zelda we'll see from now on. It wasn't a total reinvention of the series, but for the first time in a long time, I felt surprised every time I got a new item or solved a puzzle. It really was new.

[QUOTE="SuperSmashBro1"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="SuperSmashBro1"]

[QUOTE="rcignoni"]They said TP was the last of its kind.Wintry_Flutist

A few months later...the Legend of Zelda phantom hourglass

The point being...?

PH represents a lot of the "new kind" of Zelda we'll see from now on. It wasn't a total reinvention of the series, but for the first time in a long time, I felt surprised every time I got a new item or solved a puzzle. It really was new.

yeah same with boss's and enemies. Zelda has been rebuilding the same boss' for a long time, and same enemies but putting a new front on them. PH made a few new ones. Also it seemed like a blend of retro zelda with twists, not like other 3d ones