Action against the ESRB!

I, like others feal that this ban is unwarranted and a direct attack on Wii, saying that Wii must legaly stay "childish" in mature. chris_wing

So you're mad at the ESRB for doing their job?

It's not the game he's sticking up for it's freedom to play whatever you like as consenting adult! It's about choice not letting somelse diecide what you should or not view!

It's not the game he's sticking up for it's freedom to play whatever you like as consenting adult! It's about choice not letting somelse diecide what you should or not view!

JustWiicredible

theres violent games, there horrors and there a re graphical violent down right sick/perverse games. sorry, no signature from me on this one. let it be ao, and let it be banned. something this brutal ain't no videogame anymore, not to mention it ain't fun. u find this fun, somwthings wrong with u.mkfalcon2007

Video games in the same way asfilms sometimes aint about 'fun' like in the Mario party way. It can be a ordeal that pushes your boundaries,explores issues, confronts your preconceived ideas. Playing Silent hill,Resident evil,the sufferring,killer 7 play out these themes. Films espeically the Horror ones are about getting through to the end whilst learning something along the way either about the story or your reaction to whats presented to you. To not even give consenting adults the opportunity to play the game to say it sucks or it's good is censorship of the worst kind.

Playing manhunt would be me the opportunity to test whether i had the 'stomach' to continue to the end, (like walking out in the cinema) my feelings towards the events on screen etc. The goverment has no right saying that a grown man that can kill people in real life (i was in the Navy) hunt animals, and all kind of vices can't play a little video game, :(

Calm down. its just a game.SuprLuigi

you should have never said that ur going 2 get it

I can't believe people STILL don't understand the difference between this game and other violent games. In Manhunt 2, you're not just committing violent acts, you're playing the SADIST. You are rewarded for torturing people and making the violence more disgusting. Not only that, you are meant to take pleasure in causing pain (in a virtual environment, of course) and identify with the torturer.

Also, for those of you who are whining about the government's role - the ESRB is an independent body.

Honestly, it's a little ironic - the people making the arguments for the game and complaining about the rating probably aren't mature enough to understand the ramifications of that kind of violence and depravity, and generally wouldn't be old enough to play the game even if it did see a release as is.

I can't believe people STILL don't understand the difference between this game and other violent games. In Manhunt 2, you're not just committing violent acts, you're playing the SADIST. You are rewarded for torturing people and making the violence more disgusting. Not only that, you are meant to take pleasure in causing pain (in a virtual environment, of course) and identify with the torturer.

Also, for those of you who are whining about the government's role - the ESRB is an independent body.

Honestly, it's a little ironic - the people making the arguments for the game and complaining about the rating probably aren't mature enough to understand the ramifications of that kind of violence and depravity, and generally wouldn't be old enough to play the game even if it did see a release as is.

shroomba

The ESRB is an independant body rating games on the goverments behalf. As i have said before there are many films in which you favour the side of the tourturer, that by it'self should not be a reason to ban a piece of electronic entertainment.

If I were on the ESRB and received an email with the complaints you've listed, I would immediately dismiss them. Why? Because I would've played the game, while none of the protesters have. The ESRB is in a much better position to rate the game than us.JordanElek

And we have a winner

The ESRB is right in this. The people who don't understand WHY this is happening only fuels the fire AGAINST the game

The ESRB is an independant body rating games on the goverments behalf. As i have said before there are many films in which you favour the side of the tourturer, that by it'self should not be a reason to ban a piece of electronic entertainment. JustWiicredible

Name one mainstream film where you are meant to identify with the torturer. One.

And no, the ESRB does not rate game on the behalf of the government. It was formed at the request of the government, but past that it has been pretty well autonomous. In addition, not having a rating board, and a rating of AO, would be just flatout irresponsible. Not having that level of rating would do less to inform the consumer about the content of the media. If there is anyone to be upset with, it would be the console manufacturers, since they are the ones who disallow the AO rating on their respective platforms.

If I were on the ESRB and received an email with the complaints you've listed, I would immediately dismiss them. Why? Because I would've played the game, while none of the protesters have. The ESRB is in a much better position to rate the game than us.JordanElek

The ESRB are in a better position to say which games they think us lowly gamers can handle you mean?

I think that i as a adult should be able to judge what i can or cannot handle. Yes keep it away from the kids but not giving it a cert is banning it de facto (Speaking for UK gamers) and takes away my choice to play it or not.

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]If I were on the ESRB and received an email with the complaints you've listed, I would immediately dismiss them. Why? Because I would've played the game, while none of the protesters have. The ESRB is in a much better position to rate the game than us.JustWiicredible

The ESRB are in a better position to say which games they think us lowly gamers can handle you mean?

No, he means the ESRB has played it while everyone else is guessing.

This thread is ridiculous. The game deserves an Adults Only rating. Have you heard whats in the game? Look up a description. The game is made for adults. Therefore the rating is accurate. The rating is gonna keep the game out of kids hands and thats what the ESRB was trying to do. This game doesn't even look that good. Its just gonna use shock tactics to make you want to buy it. It's like the Hills Have Eyes, just a total disgrace to film as is Manhunt to gaming. I know my opinion will probably be unpopular but I don't really care.cradleOFfilth37

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]If I were on the ESRB and received an email with the complaints you've listed, I would immediately dismiss them. Why? Because I would've played the game, while none of the protesters have. The ESRB is in a much better position to rate the game than us.Jaysonguy

The ESRB are in a better position to say which games they think us lowly gamers can handle you mean?

No, he means the ESRB has played it while everyone else is guessing.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]If I were on the ESRB and received an email with the complaints you've listed, I would immediately dismiss them. Why? Because I would've played the game, while none of the protesters have. The ESRB is in a much better position to rate the game than us.chris_wing

The ESRB are in a better position to say which games they think us lowly gamers can handle you mean?

No, he means the ESRB has played it while everyone else is guessing.

Yes, actually they do these days

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]The ESRB are in a better position to say which games they think us lowly gamers can handle you mean?Jaysonguy

No, he means the ESRB has played it while everyone else is guessing.

Yeah, I'm not getting into any deep discussion on the philsophy behind the rating system in this thread, just pointing out the flaw in the original poster's proposal. ;)

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]

It's not the game he's sticking up for it's freedom to play whatever you like as consenting adult! It's about choice not letting somelse diecide what you should or not view!

hazbazz

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]If I were on the ESRB and received an email with the complaints you've listed, I would immediately dismiss them. Why? Because I would've played the game, while none of the protesters have. The ESRB is in a much better position to rate the game than us.Jaysonguy

The ESRB are in a better position to say which games they think us lowly gamers can handle you mean?

No, he means the ESRB has played it while everyone else is guessing.

Ok let me break it down. The ERSB has played the game. The ESRB are run by men and women just like you and me. The ERSB says that this game is not suitable for other people to play even though they've played it themselves and are still well adjusted. Again I'm more refering to the BBFC as it's not an Outright ban by themselves rather by Nintys refusal. How come the censors are able to play it and feel fine after but here comes the key word the said that we as people 'SHOULD' not be able to play it. They are imposing their moral judgements on what i should or should not see. That is what is wrong!

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]

It's not the game he's sticking up for it's freedom to play whatever you like as consenting adult! It's about choice not letting somelse diecide what you should or not view!

hazbazz

[QUOTE="mkfalcon2007"]theres violent games, there horrors and there a re graphical violent down right sick/perverse games. sorry, no signature from me on this one. let it be ao, and let it be banned. something this brutal ain't no videogame anymore, not to mention it ain't fun. u find this fun, somwthings wrong with u.hazbazz

Guess again, do you people know that the ESRB don't even play the games they rate? Don't belive me, check their website.chris_wing

Their website says that they play the final versions of some hand-selected games before they are released, just to be sure all of the previously collected information is accurate. Then the rating is finalized. I think it's safe to assume that Manhunt 2 was one of the hand-selected games.

This thread is ridiculous. The game deserves an Adults Only rating. Have you heard whats in the game? Look up a description. The game is made for adults. Therefore the rating is accurate. The rating is gonna keep the game out of kids hands and thats what the ESRB was trying to do. This game doesn't even look that good. Its just gonna use shock tactics to make you want to buy it. It's like the Hills Have Eyes, just a total disgrace to film as is Manhunt to gaming. I know my opinion will probably be unpopular but I don't really care.cradleOFfilth37

Its not that this game isn't made for adults, it most certainly is. Is that this AO rating doesn't mean its for adults, it means its worse. M is for adults. I know AO stands for Adults Only, but thats just a formality. Nintendo won't allow an AO game on their system, and apparently neither will Sony. Entire countries are banning this game based solely on the AO rating.

I used to work in a video game store, and we didn't even carry AO games because we were a "family store". You get that? A video game store not carrying certain video games. Oh yeah, we had Gears of War, Resident Evil 4, Manhunt, all the Grand Theft Autos, but we're a family store, and good wholesome family fun is the purpose of video games....uhh...what!?

This is a direct attack of video games. Anyone who says otherwise is just straight up stupid. Games have been under a lot of scruitiny lately and its not good. How will this game be any worse than GTA 4? Read the previews, that game (which lets you do whatever you want, sex, drugs, murder) sounds disturbing. But its our right to play them, and we shouldnt have to order them from overseas just to get them.

Video games in the same way asfilms sometimes aint about 'fun' like in the Mario party way. It can be a ordeal that pushes your boundaries,explores issues, confronts your preconceived ideas. Playing Silent hill,Resident evil,the sufferring,killer 7 play out these themes. Films espeically the Horror ones are about getting through to the end whilst learning something along the way either about the story or your reaction to whats presented to you. To not even give consenting adults the opportunity to play the game to say it sucks or it's good is censorship of the worst kind.

Playing manhunt would be me the opportunity to test whether i had the 'stomach' to continue to the end, (like walking out in the cinema) my feelings towards the events on screen etc. The goverment has no right saying that a grown man that can kill people in real life (i was in the Navy) hunt animals, and all kind of vices can't play a little video game, :(

JustWiicredible

I don't understand a lot of the arguments being made. The job of the ESRB is to evaluate a game and asign it a rating to inform customers. They gave it a rating. Retailers choose not to stock AO games. The console makers choose not to have these titles on their systems. That is their business right. I am sure there is a clause in the contracts that third parties sign saying that AO games will not be released.

I don't see how this is violating anyone's rights. Can anyone show me how they are personally being censored?

I can't believe people STILL don't understand the difference between this game and other violent games. In Manhunt 2, you're not just committing violent acts, you're playing the SADIST. You are rewarded for torturing people and making the violence more disgusting. Not only that, you are meant to take pleasure in causing pain (in a virtual environment, of course) and identify with the torturer.

Also, for those of you who are whining about the government's role - the ESRB is an independent body.

Honestly, it's a little ironic - the people making the arguments for the game and complaining about the rating probably aren't mature enough to understand the ramifications of that kind of violence and depravity, and generally wouldn't be old enough to play the game even if it did see a release as is.

shroomba

They are imposing their moral judgements on what i should or should not see. That is what is wrong!JustWiicredible

The irony of this statement is hard to dismiss... You're imposing your moral judgements on them as well by saying that they're wrong. It's impossible to admit to the existence of morality without imposing it on others in some way.

With that said, however, I do see your point, and we've discussed this a little in a different thread.

Back to the original topic, the console manufacturers (in the US, at least) are the ones banning the game because of its rating. The ESRB's job is to let the consumer know what he's getting into by playing the game before he plays it. They've done their job just fine. And Nintendo and Sony have the right to choose which games appear on the consoles they've created.

If I were on the ESRB and received an email with the complaints you've listed, I would immediately dismiss them. Why? Because I would've played the game, while none of the protesters have. The ESRB is in a much better position to rate the game than us.JordanElek

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]If I were on the ESRB and received an email with the complaints you've listed, I would immediately dismiss them. Why? Because I would've played the game, while none of the protesters have. The ESRB is in a much better position to rate the game than us.chris_wing

I do find it hard to believe that these white collar ratings people played through Manhunt 2 in like 3 days...

Guess who didn't play any of these games, thats right, Osama!chris_wing

We don't know that. How do you think he entertains himself being trapped in those caves all these years? :P

But really, things like video games affect different people in different ways.

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]

The ESRB is an independant body rating games on the goverments behalf. As i have said before there are many films in which you favour the side of the tourturer, that by it'self should not be a reason to ban a piece of electronic entertainment. shroomba

Name one mainstream film where you are meant to identify with the torturer. One.

And no, the ESRB does not rate game on the behalf of the government. It was formed at the request of the government, but past that it has been pretty well autonomous. In addition, not having a rating board, and a rating of AO, would be just flatout irresponsible. Not having that level of rating would do less to inform the consumer about the content of the media. If there is anyone to be upset with, it would be the console manufacturers, since they are the ones who disallow the AO rating on their respective platforms.

Again, check their website. They DO NOT PLAY THE GAMES THEY RATE!chris_wing

Umm....

When the game is ready for release to the public, publishers send copies of the final product to the ESRB. The game packaging is reviewed to make sure the rating information is displayed accurately and in accordance with ESRB requirements. Additionally, ESRB's in-house game experts play the final version of both a random sample of games as well as a number of hand-selected titles to verify that all the materials provided by the game's publisher during the rating process were accurate and complete.The ESRB Website

Like I said before, I'm pretty sure a game like Manhunt 2 would be one of the hand-selected games to play.

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]If I were on the ESRB and received an email with the complaints you've listed, I would immediately dismiss them. Why? Because I would've played the game, while none of the protesters have. The ESRB is in a much better position to rate the game than us.Jaysonguy

The ESRB are in a better position to say which games they think us lowly gamers can handle you mean?

No, he means the ESRB has played it while everyone else is guessing.

The BBFC in the UK refused to give the game a cert e.g PG,12,13,18 OR EVEN R18 which can only be sold in 'special' stores this means it's banned in all but name. I therefore am not legally alound to buy it even though i a consenting adult.Here is the censorship.JustWiicredible

I didn't know there was a law that said the public had the right to demand what products are released. Also, I am not allowed to get a prostitute even though I am an adult

[QUOTE="chris_wing"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"][QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]If I were on the ESRB and received an email with the complaints you've listed, I would immediately dismiss them. Why? Because I would've played the game, while none of the protesters have. The ESRB is in a much better position to rate the game than us.Jaysonguy

The ESRB are in a better position to say which games they think us lowly gamers can handle you mean?

No, he means the ESRB has played it while everyone else is guessing.

Yes, actually they do these days

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]They are imposing their moral judgements on what i should or should not see. That is what is wrong!JordanElek

The irony of this statement is hard to dismiss... You're imposing your moral judgements on them as well by saying that they're wrong. It's impossible to admit to the existence of morality without imposing it on others in some way.

With that said, however, I do see your point, and we've discussed this a little in a different thread.

Back to the original topic, the console manufacturers (in the US, at least) are the ones banning the game because of its rating. The ESRB's job is to let the consumer know what he's getting into by playing the game before he plays it. They've done their job just fine. And Nintendo and Sony have the right to choose which games appear on the consoles they've created.

Without going to farinto the ideas of the Existentialism of Satre. it is by defintion impossible to make any choice for yourself without automatically choosing for the whole of Mankind. If you say that i will not fire a gun you also say that others should not aswell as aren't they the same as you. In relating to the topic my moral judgement 'all should see' against the censors moral judgement 'all should not see' is in conflict however they are in the posistion to enforce their judgements (With or without justification) where as i don't.

I don't understand a lot of the arguments being made. The job of the ESRB is to evaluate a game and asign it a rating to inform customers. They gave it a rating. Retailers choose not to stock AO games. The console makers choose not to have these titles on their systems. That is their business right. I am sure there is a clause in the contracts that third parties sign saying that AO games will not be released.

I don't see how this is violating anyone's rights. Can anyone show me how they are personally being censored?

kakkarott23

they are in the posistion to enforce their judgements (With or without justification) where as i don't.JustWiicredible

I have to concede to that. Good point. ;)

[QUOTE="JustWiicredible"]The BBFC in the UK refused to give the game a cert e.g PG,12,13,18 OR EVEN R18 which can only be sold in 'special' stores this means it's banned in all but name. I therefore am not legally alound to buy it even though i a consenting adult.Here is the censorship.kakkarott23

I didn't know there was a law that said the public had the right to demand what products are released. Also, I am not allowed to get a prostitute even though I am an adult

Hence the stupidity of the prositution laws. The only way the goverment should interfere in our lives is when there is a product or service which is so abhorrent that using it once would be fatal or lead to a life time of misery. I'm really talking about hard drugs,having speed limits,murder is illegal. I'm not a anarchist but i belive the gorvement especially in the uk is becoming to involved in what we should or should not do in our day to day lives. Foxhunting,smoking bans,knee jerk BBFC even ouruse of energyit's becoming a nanny state!