Debate Concluder: Zelda: Twilight Princess (POLL)

This should explain it all:

[QUOTE="chazasul"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="chazasul"]

[QUOTE="nintendoboy16"]Twilight Princess may have not done so hot.Wintry_Flutist

Eh? It sold well and received critical acclaim. It's got an average score of 95 (Wii) and 96 (Gamecube) on metacritic.

Open your eyes, look around, and you'll see many, many complaints. Remember it's TP, and TP only, that triggered those "Zelda is dying" and "Zelda needs to change" threads we've never seen before, haters/trolls aside.

Welcome to the internet. Where everyone moans and whines about everything. Ignore it.

I think you don't get the point. You bring up sales and reviews, when there is undeniable insatisfaction (no, not rant) around. Enough to raise the "caution" warning at Nintendo EAD - and they know they need to fix/change things in Zelda.

[QUOTE="chazasul"]

Undeniable insatisfaction? I guaruntee you that is a small minority of people whining over nothing.

Wintry_Flutist

Judging by your post account, you were certainly here when TP was the hot topic. I can guarantee you there is a lot of people totally disappointed with the rehash TP was, and that's not counting those who enjoyed TP but reckon it's time for a change.

This whole talk of Zelda change didn't come from nowhere. If it was just the rant of haters, it would have died long ago.

I guess this can only mean one thing...

IT'S POLL TIME!

While i did like TP. i do think its time for a shake up. i would like to see it have a deeper story and charecters. TP was just to predictble and it just got repetative to me. And please o please nintendo put more time into a deeper combat system. the combat in TP as well as ww was just so boreing to me. less than half way threw the game i started just avoiding every encounter i could. And i wish thay would stay away from the silly charicters like tingle and the mailman ect. Wild_Card

Hey tingle and the mailman are awesome in my books.

[QUOTE="Wild_Card"]While i did like TP. i do think its time for a shake up. i would like to see it have a deeper story and charecters. TP was just to predictble and it just got repetative to me. And please o please nintendo put more time into a deeper combat system. the combat in TP as well as ww was just so boreing to me. less than half way threw the game i started just avoiding every encounter i could. And i wish thay would stay away from the silly charicters like tingle and the mailman ect. Kuhu

Hey tingle and the mailman are awesome in my books.

I did enjoy Twilight Princess too. I loved the story, the combat was good, the bosses were cool despite being easy, soundtrack was amazing and the length was perfect. To be honest, i didnt want TP to end. The only thng i really hatd aabout TP was that you had Zant like the villain and then right before the final segment surprisse!!! ganondorf is in the castle waiting for you...

Dont get me wrong, TP is the best Zelda game imo but i have to admit there are some serious areas that have to be redone. Lets star by getting ridd of ganondorf, that should help make the story different. Then add more characters and voice acting. There is always space for difficulty levels which would really make the game much better. Lest hope nintendo gets zelda back on track.

[QUOTE="Kuhu"]

[QUOTE="Wild_Card"]While i did like TP. i do think its time for a shake up. i would like to see it have a deeper story and charecters. TP was just to predictble and it just got repetative to me. And please o please nintendo put more time into a deeper combat system. the combat in TP as well as ww was just so boreing to me. less than half way threw the game i started just avoiding every encounter i could. And i wish thay would stay away from the silly charicters like tingle and the mailman ect. MaceKhan

Hey tingle and the mailman are awesome in my books.

The mail man did suck, but Tingle is way rad. But I HATED both agitha the bug chick or whoever and also that guy that ran the cannon by the lake.

Twilight Princess is amazing in every way, and improved many aspects over Ocarina of Time. The only complaint that is reasonable would be that the game is too easy.

After Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, people complained that they wanted something more similar to Ocarina. Then after Twilight Princess people complained that it was too similar to Ocarina. Make up your mind people.

After Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, people complained that they wanted something more similar to Ocarina. Then after Twilight Princess people complained that it was too similar to Ocarina. Make up your mind people.

Rocky32189

I second, third, fourth and fifth that. So very true.

Looks like the poll is sawying in my favour. I won't rub it in.

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"]

After Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, people complained that they wanted something more similar to Ocarina. Then after Twilight Princess people complained that it was too similar to Ocarina. Make up your mind people.

chazasul

I second, third, fourth and fifth that. So very true.

Looks like the poll is sawying in my favour. I won't rub it in.

The truth is in the comments:

While i did like TP. i do think its time for a shake up.Wild_Card

It was good, but since playing OoT, I can see where a lot of the complaints are coming from. It's very, very similar.dmil1991

Dont get me wrong, TP is the best Zelda game imo but i have to admit there are some serious areas that have to be redone.Darkman159

That puts a lot more perspective in the poll results, huh? Besides those who didn't find TP anything SUPER AWESOMEZ SPECIAL, how many of its fans actually reckon Zelda can't rely on the current formula?

The right question would be "Should the next Zelda keep the same formula as the console 3D Zeldas?"

That puts a lot more perspective in the poll results, huh?

The right question would be "Should the next Zelda keep the same formula as the console 3D Zeldas?"

Wintry_Flutist

That wasn't what we were debating though. We were debating the success of Twilight Princess and you said "Many people were disappointed". I think the next Zelda needs something to freshen it up, I never denied that.

Edit: I should note I think every Zelda has managed to remain fresh with something new. The fact is, I personally still really enjoy the series (Judging by the poll, so do a lot of people) so I see no need for any drastic change.

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"]

After Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, people complained that they wanted something more similar to Ocarina. Then after Twilight Princess people complained that it was too similar to Ocarina. Make up your mind people.

chazasul

I second, third, fourth and fifth that. So very true.

Looks like the poll is sawying in my favour. I won't rub it in.

Heck yeah I loved TP. people just don't freakin' know what they want. And people that dislike a game are always way more vocal about their feelings than the people who enjoyed it.

The idea of Twilight Princess was to bring nostalgia from Ocarina of Time. My only complaints to TP are that the boss battles are way too easy and very little orchestrated music. TP did an extraordinary job with the feel of TP with the same formula, many similar tunes, and even grapihcs resembling OoT.

A lot of people don't care for it because, like Jeff Gerstman, they think it's time to move on with fresh and new material and that's what seperates a lot of fans from liking it/not liking it.

Personally, I loved it, but it wasn't as good as Ocarina of Time. It's still my #1.

[QUOTE="chazasul"][QUOTE="Rocky32189"]

After Majora's Mask and Wind Waker, people complained that they wanted something more similar to Ocarina. Then after Twilight Princess people complained that it was too similar to Ocarina. Make up your mind people.

Huell_Howser

I second, third, fourth and fifth that. So very true.

Looks like the poll is sawying in my favour. I won't rub it in.

Heck yeah I loved TP. people just don't freakin' know what they want. And people that dislike a game are always way more vocal about their feelings than the people who enjoyed it.

Exactly! THANK YOU.

That puts a lot more perspective in the poll results, huh?

The right question would be "Should the next Zelda keep the same formula as the console 3D Zeldas?"

Wintry_Flutist

Obviously people are open to a reinvention of the series. The Zelda series has been virtually unchanged since it debuted over 20 years ago. But that doesn't change the fact that Twilight Princess was an amazing game and everything fans had been begging for since Ocarina of Time.

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

That puts a lot more perspective in the poll results, huh?

The right question would be "Should the next Zelda keep the same formula as the console 3D Zeldas?"

chazasul

That wasn't what we were debating though. We were debating the success of Twilight Princess and you said "Many people were disappointed". I think the next Zelda needs something to freshen it up, I never denied that.

I'm pretty sure you brougth up the sales figures and reviews as argument agaisnt reinvention in Zelda, and I said there is more demand for it than there has ever been.

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]That puts a lot more perspective in the poll results, huh?

The right question would be "Should the next Zelda keep the same formula as the console 3D Zeldas?"

Rocky32189

Obviously people are open to a reinvention of the series. The Zelda series has been virtually unchanged since it debuted over 20 years ago. But that doesn't change the fact that Twilight Princess was an amazing game and everything fans had been begging for since Ocarina of Time.

They aren't just "open". Everyone with half a brain knows that after two Ocarina of Time, if I can put it that way, the franchise needs new standards to live on.

In any case, that's what Miyamoto thinks, so it should happen (after TP, I can't count so much on that).

[QUOTE="chazasul"][QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"]

That puts a lot more perspective in the poll results, huh?

The right question would be "Should the next Zelda keep the same formula as the console 3D Zeldas?"

Wintry_Flutist

That wasn't what we were debating though. We were debating the success of Twilight Princess and you said "Many people were disappointed". I think the next Zelda needs something to freshen it up, I never denied that.

I'm pretty sure you brougth up the sales figures and reviews as argument agaisnt reinvention in Zelda, and I said there is more demand for it than there has ever been.

Alright, fair play. I'll end this now 'cause I think the conclusion is that most people really enjoyed Twilight Princess but fear that the next Zelda will just be more of the same.

Twilight Princess is amazing in every way, and improved many aspects over Ocarina of Time. The only complaint that is reasonable would be that the game is too easy.Rocky32189

Artistically/graphically, it was off. Link looks weird as do a lot of the characters. I prefer the blocky polygons of OoT over Link in TP.

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"]Twilight Princess is amazing in every way, and improved many aspects over Ocarina of Time. The only complaint that is reasonable would be that the game is too easy.Skie7

Artistically/graphically, it was off. Link looks weird as do a lot of the characters. I prefer the blocky polygons of OoT over Link in TP.

There is some weird truth in this. :shock:

That's one of the reasons why I think Nintendo should never go 100% photorealistic for Zelda.

Gerstmann was right. TP is a well-made Zelda game, the fact stands that it feels old.

Not that Nintendo did wrong to create such a game, as practically 70% of the Nintendo audience was asking Miyamoto just that. The reality was the more you played, the more it felt like going through the motions. The more sidequests opened up, the longer the walk for exactly what you needed. Exploring everything put the mind at ease, numerous visits put the mind into frustration. Complaining about it was foolish (except the glitch that ruined your save file) because Twilight Princess did exactly as advertised.

It's just that...copying an 8 year old game is frowned upon in the gaming industry, especially when it is more than a generation old. The market for exactly that experience has moved on to bigger ideals, which is why so much argument existed. Most of it neglects to mention that the correct nomenclature for Zelda:TP is a retro game, and that the Wii version is a port (still the best on the console). The point still stands, however, that the story drove Twilight Princess. Had it not been one of the best story-driven action games, it would have clutched too greatly on "the formula" to keep anyone but the most dedicated from completing it, and certainly would have brought the score down.

In the end, there is nothing wrong about not liking this game. The industry version of "fanboy-check" doesn't pertain to Zelda anymore. While it certainly is a benefit for a Wii owner to buy and enjoy Zelda, it is not the only great game in the genre. Everyone that got upset about Zelda are only cheating themselves out of the experience they paid for. Those that grew up with OOT and were upset have even less reason to gripe. If anything, those who want more should be complaining even louder, because Nintendo has announced a change not even Miyamoto is sure about its true outcome.

So in short. if you get upset that retro game is not groundbreaking, please do not buy Zelda:Twilight Princess.

Gerstmann was right. TP is a well-made Zelda game, the fact stands that it feels old.

Not that Nintendo did wrong to create such a game, as practically 70% of the Nintendo audience was asking Miyamoto just that. The reality was the more you played, the more it felt like going through the motions. The more sidequests opened up, the longer the walk for exactly what you needed. Exploring everything put the mind at ease, numerous visits put the mind into frustration. Complaining about it was foolish (except the glitch that ruined your save file) because Twilight Princess did exactly as advertised.

SirSpudly

Yes and no. Of course, by the time TP was getting close to launch, everyone should have had realized what it was going to be. But for those who followed every news since announcement, they were first presented to a game that would be as new as its predecessors, "animal interaction" being the flagship of "Zelda 2005" uniqueness. Later, Twilight and wolf were introduced.

Over time, it was clear Nintendo was going to play safe (already gambling too much with the Wii), but there was still hope those promised features would make it. Unfortunately, they were reduced to almost nothing.

I enjoyed TP. It was like a breath of fresh air. I know the controls before I even started. So I was automatically comfortable with the controlls.

The storyline with the temples and how everything went was similiar to Ocarina. But who could blame them to follow through Ocarina's footsteps. They got a sh*tload of money for that game. They had 4 different versions for it (that I know of)

1. Original N64

2. Gamecube Collector's Disc

3. Master Quest

4. Wii VC

I dont think any game has been released that many times. Especially since it was made lst in 1998. I didnt play this until I think 2001 and I thought it was the best game still at that time. Anyway TP is nice with graphics, fun to play, storyline isnt that dark or sinister and I for once feel sorry for the people that played it on the Gamecube because personally I think the Wii version is more fun with the motion controls.

If people complain about how this game isnt like Ocarina. That because this game ISNT Ocarina. It would have been called Ocarina of Time: Remastered. I glad that it was different from Ocarina somewhat so it didnt feel like I was playing the same game.

[QUOTE="Skie7"]

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"]Twilight Princess is amazing in every way, and improved many aspects over Ocarina of Time. The only complaint that is reasonable would be that the game is too easy.Wintry_Flutist

Artistically/graphically, it was off. Link looks weird as do a lot of the characters. I prefer the blocky polygons of OoT over Link in TP.

There is some weird truth in this. :shock:

That's one of the reasons why I think Nintendo should never go 100% photorealistic for Zelda.

On topic: I thought TP was amazing.

[QUOTE="MaceKhan"][QUOTE="Kuhu"]

[QUOTE="Wild_Card"]While i did like TP. i do think its time for a shake up. i would like to see it have a deeper story and charecters. TP was just to predictble and it just got repetative to me. And please o please nintendo put more time into a deeper combat system. the combat in TP as well as ww was just so boreing to me. less than half way threw the game i started just avoiding every encounter i could. And i wish thay would stay away from the silly charicters like tingle and the mailman ect. Huell_Howser

Hey tingle and the mailman are awesome in my books.

The mail man did suck, but Tingle is way rad. But I HATED both agitha the bug chick or whoever and also that guy that ran the cannon by the lake.

[QUOTE="Wintry_Flutist"][QUOTE="Skie7"]

[QUOTE="Rocky32189"]Twilight Princess is amazing in every way, and improved many aspects over Ocarina of Time. The only complaint that is reasonable would be that the game is too easy.SER69

Artistically/graphically, it was off. Link looks weird as do a lot of the characters. I prefer the blocky polygons of OoT over Link in TP.

There is some weird truth in this. :shock:

That's one of the reasons why I think Nintendo should never go 100% photorealistic for Zelda.

On topic: I thought TP was amazing.

or this...

I love ALL zelda games so for me its a no brainer!

Its my 2nd favourite game behind OoT, but it still had its issues. The one thing for me that i really didnt like was how it started off good but just got boring in the second half of the gameFelmo_07

Yea same for me.

It was good, but my main problems were that it was too easy, too short (36 hours including all side quests, come on) and it brought nearly nothing new to the table. Overral it was an enjoyable game. I spent a weekend playing it and it was a good weekend (although my room did smell a bit seeing as I didnt leave my bed :P) But basically now we need a whole to formula. Sure there are some new people who just started with TP and would like the same, but a new formula would bode well for both the longtime players such as myself and new players so it keeps everyone more and more interested.freek666

Agreed, we need a new formula. The 2+2=4 formula is getting old for zelda. Its time for Nintendo to make a 1+3=4 formula.

I have been a Zelda fan for a long time and I genuinely loved TP.

I've beaten it twice, and liked it the second time too.

And while I do think the game stays close to the zelda formula, it has a really UNIQUE atmosphere to it.

The early twilight sections, Arbiter's Grounds, Snowpeak Ruins, The City in the Sky were especially unique.

And while The Forrest Temple, Goron Mines, Lakebed Temple, and Temple of Time were based on stuff from past games they still felt very different from their counterparts. Especially Goron Mines, with the magnets.