Do you think Harmonix will change its stance on Rock Band Wii due to negative...

public response. Basically overall forums on the internet Wii fans are pretty mad that Rock Band did not at least go as far as GHIII?

Really it wont be hard for them to AT LEAST add online play; incorporate Wiimotes into instruments to have cheaper price, rumble, and speaker functionality; and please make the white instruments an optional color.

DLC I can understand because stubborn Nintendo simply refuses to add more functionality to the SD card. But even that is not that hard. Put packages in the Wiiware. Its so obvious, GHIII PRs said they were going to do that.

All Im saying is the way they are going about RB Wii is totally wrong. Do you think they will change?

No because the people that make that ruckus are a teeny tiny portion of their sales.

What happens on sites like that and pretty much anywhere else online don't matter. That's why I always laugh at this "you must buy this game" campaigns here.

The majority of buyers wont even know what's in the game before they get it home.

No because the people that make that ruckus are a teeny tiny portion of their sales.

What happens on sites like that and pretty much anywhere else online don't matter. That's why I always laugh at this "you must buy this game" campaigns here.

The majority of buyers wont even know what's in the game before they get it home.

Jaysonguy

low blow, look at his sig.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

No because the people that make that ruckus are a teeny tiny portion of their sales.

What happens on sites like that and pretty much anywhere else online don't matter. That's why I always laugh at this "you must buy this game" campaigns here.

The majority of buyers wont even know what's in the game before they get it home.

jfkunrendered

low blow, look at his sig.

Oh no, I don't have sigs on.

I wasn't trying to say anything negative

What does it say?

[QUOTE="jfkunrendered"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

No because the people that make that ruckus are a teeny tiny portion of their sales.

What happens on sites like that and pretty much anywhere else online don't matter. That's why I always laugh at this "you must buy this game" campaigns here.

The majority of buyers wont even know what's in the game before they get it home.

Jaysonguy

low blow, look at his sig.

Oh no, I don't have sigs on.

I wasn't trying to say anything negative

What does it say?

It says, "Buy No More Heroes Campaign" and its really big and red, he put more than 2 minutes in to making it.

crap.....did not see that

Sorry Cyber

[QUOTE="jfkunrendered"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

No because the people that make that ruckus are a teeny tiny portion of their sales.

What happens on sites like that and pretty much anywhere else online don't matter. That's why I always laugh at this "you must buy this game" campaigns here.

The majority of buyers wont even know what's in the game before they get it home.

Jaysonguy

low blow, look at his sig.

Oh no, I don't have sigs on.

I wasn't trying to say anything negative

What does it say?

I have a Buy Campaign for No More Heroes because we all know it sold bad and I thought its one of the cooler third party games on the Wii. But I know what your saying. These Buy Campaigns dont help much but I just do it out of principle. Kinda like a lost cause is worth most fighting for.

This thread is not about tellling people to cause "ruckus" though. I am just exploring and seeing if people think its possible that Harmonix will listen to its more dedicated fanbase. I mean its not the first time. Certainly its happened many times before. Some companies like Valve who have the PC gaming world's love and respect master in listening to those poor fools on the internet.

Again I am just seeing what people think.

crap.....did not see that

Sorry Cyber

Jaysonguy

lol Its cool I know exactly what you mean and I explained my reasoning. BTW I did not make this.

I have a Buy Campaign for No More Heroes because we all know it sold bad and I thought its one of the cooler third party games on the Wii. But I know what your saying. These Buy Campaigns dont help much but I just do it out of principle. Kinda like a lost cause is worth most fighting for.

This thread is not about tellling people to cause "ruckus" though. I am just exploring and seeing if people think its possible that Harmonix will listen to its more dedicated fanbase. I mean its not the first time. Certainly its happened many times before. Some companies like Valve who have the PC gaming world's love and respect master in listening to those poor fools on the internet.

Again I am just seeing what people think.

Cyber-

I put most of my thoughts onto the other Rock Band thread that is running right now, but I would like to add one thing to this one. I don't think Harmonix considers its 'loyal fans' to have missed out on buying the 'other' versions for this long. I think the Wii edition is nothing more than a 3rd party port milking.raahsnavj

That pretty much sums up my opinion on this entirely about this game coming to Wii. I don't think Rock Band would have had a shot to come on the Wii if the system itself wasn't still selling like crazy. Heck, the game hardly feels like a fit on the system at all, with the price point and the way the accessories are thrown at you; I think Rock Band is one of those games that is the exact opposite of the simplicity and accessibility that the Wii prides itself on being and offering the most. Once again, you see another third party publisher/developer making a game for this system when strictly because it's much more popular and successful than they ever could have anticipated and are now trying to cash in as much as possible.

[QUOTE="raahsnavj"] I put most of my thoughts onto the other Rock Band thread that is running right now, but I would like to add one thing to this one. I don't think Harmonix considers its 'loyal fans' to have missed out on buying the 'other' versions for this long. I think the Wii edition is nothing more than a 3rd party port milking.Madmangamer364

That pretty much sums up my opinion on this entirely about this game coming to Wii. I don't think Rock Band would have had a shot to come on the Wii if the system itself wasn't still selling like crazy. Heck, the game hardly feels like a fit on the system at all, with the price point and the way the accessories are thrown at you; I think Rock Band is one of those games that is the exact opposite of the simplicity and accessibility that the Wii prides itself on being and offering the most. Once again, you see another third party publisher/developer making a game for this system when strictly because it's much more popular and successful than they ever could have anticipated and are now trying to cash in as much as possible.

The core idea is perfect for the wii though. A group can play together. There comes some extra baggage but Harmonix seems incapable or unwilling to add the same simple features that are in the other one. Its like devs want their games to be more simple on the Wii so they automatically equate that with taking out features. Its the most stupid thing I have ever witnessed.

[QUOTE="raahsnavj"] I put most of my thoughts onto the other Rock Band thread that is running right now, but I would like to add one thing to this one. I don't think Harmonix considers its 'loyal fans' to have missed out on buying the 'other' versions for this long. I think the Wii edition is nothing more than a 3rd party port milking.Madmangamer364

That pretty much sums up my opinion on this entirely about this game coming to Wii. I don't think Rock Band would have had a shot to come on the Wii if the system itself wasn't still selling like crazy. Heck, the game hardly feels like a fit on the system at all, with the price point and the way the accessories are thrown at you; I think Rock Band is one of those games that is the exact opposite of the simplicity and accessibility that the Wii prides itself on being and offering the most. Once again, you see another third party publisher/developer making a game for this system when strictly because it's much more popular and successful than they ever could have anticipated and are now trying to cash in as much as possible.

This statement makes it sound as if Rock Band doesn't belong on the Wii just because you believe it's not what you think the Wii should stand for. I appreciate where you're coming from but I have to disagree. I definitely think it belongs. As casual as the Wii is it's still just as much a hardcore gamers machine and Rock Band is the kind of game that appeals to both casual and hardcore gamers in my opinion. What doesn't belong on the Wii is this "version" (if you want to even call it that) of Rock Band. It's so bad and devoid of any substantial gaming characteristics when compared to it's next-gen cousins that I as a hardcore gamer, Nintendo fan, and professional musician take it personally offensive and as an afront to my knowledge of game design and my consumer dollar (run-on sentance like a mofo lol). This type of laziness and insult no longer belongs on our Wii.

Who's with me! (warcry)

Well I'll tell you this: I was holding off from getting a 360/PS3 because I knew that the game would be coming out for the Wii eventually. Now that we know the horrible truth, I'm either going to get the 360/PS3 version, or wait until Rock Band 2 comes out. I refuse to support such mediocrity when I know I can have better.bob_newman

This statement makes it sound as if Rock Band doesn't belong on the Wii just because you believe it's not what you think the Wii should stand for. I appreciate where you're coming from but I have to disagree. I definitely think it belongs. As casual as the Wii is it's still just as much a hardcore gamers machine and Rock Band is the kind of game that appeals to both casual and hardcore gamers in my opinion. What doesn't belong on the Wii is this "version" (if you want to even call it that) of Rock Band. It's so bad and devoid of any substantial gaming characteristics when compared to it's next-gen cousins that I as a hardcore gamer, Nintendo fan, and professional musician take it personally offensive and as an afront to my knowledge of game design and my consumer dollar (run-on sentance like a mofo lol). This type of laziness and insult no longer belongs on our Wii.

Who's with me! (warcry)

Darth-Samus

I don't mind being honest and more clear with my statement, so here goes... It's not really about Rock Band being for a hardcore or casual gamer, as I know that Wii owners come in all kinds of gaming styles and preferences. That part really doesn't bother me, but what does get to me is that the game appears to have been designed for those who can invest a huge amount of money into a singular product, whereas the Wii itself was designed so that it was more affordable. That's really what throws me off with this game being brought to Wii more than anything. A game that costs $160 for a system that's $250 itself just makes me scratch my head a bit. Then, there's the fact that, like you said, the game is being stripped down from the other console versions only makes me wonder about this decision even more. I'm sure that there are some Wii owners out there that won't mind any of this at all and just want to enjoy a great game. However, I can't help but get that "cash-in" vibe this game is putting off. I agree that the Wii doesn't need this kind of development approach, even if it is a solid title that is worth playing for a lot of people.

I HOPE they will change it, cuz after it gets' released no oen will buy it, and then they will add online and DLC via some patch.Fatkiwi

ummmm I hope so but that seems more unlikely than them changing it right now. Harmonix's decision is just plain stupid. Its like they are going out of their way to exclude these simple features because that is how most of the industry treats multiplatform efforts. Its almost like they are adhering to this trend.

I have to say I dont believe that the wii is made up of mostly this non gamer crowd everyone speaks of today. I think its more significant on the Wii than any other platform but its NOT near a majority. I think for the most part Wii has the same generally misinformed gamers that are on the 360 and PS3. Just like the PS3 and 360 they also have their extremely informed gamers that generally go to websites like this to discuss games. Then there are those non gamers. I think that people will buy this because they will automatically assume that it is as cool as GHIII was on Wii and find out they are dissappointed.

Most consumers are misinformed and most companies know that. It speaks to the integrity of the company when they listen to the few that are informed. Harmonix is using this somewhat false notion that non gamers wont even care that this long list of missing features are MIA. Its false because 1) typical gamers will still be the major buyer 2) non gamers arent sub human apes so they want to have the features that add entertainment.

The truth comes out.... Harmonix isn't making DLC available because of the Wii's lack of hard drive:

Come on Nintendo, we need a hard drive. That's what we want. The whole problem is there's nowhere to store {DLC}. . . . If the platform could do it, we'd jump on it. It's something that we championed to Nintendo, that we'd like to do it. Who knows what will happen down the line, I don't know what's coming down the line, but that's the reason there's no DLC in Wii Rock Band.Harmonix

This is no real surprise, since a lot of people figured this was the reason, but now there's no question. Hopefully Nintendo sees the problem here, finally, and comes up with a solution. Quickly.

public response. Basically overall forums on the internet Wii fans are pretty mad that Rock Band did not at least go as far as GHIII?

Really it wont be hard for them to AT LEAST add online play; incorporate Wiimotes into instruments to have cheaper price, rumble, and speaker functionality; and please make the white instruments an optional color.

DLC I can understand because stubborn Nintendo simply refuses to add more functionality to the SD card. But even that is not that hard. Put packages in the Wiiware. Its so obvious, GHIII PRs said they were going to do that.

All Im saying is the way they are going about RB Wii is totally wrong. Do you think they will change?

Cyber-

trust me. even if they allowed the ability to snap in a wiimote, the price wont go down. besides, the Fender Strtocaster (the guitar its based off of) is too skinny to accomodate a wii mote and it'd be silly to go and change that. personally, i'd prefer the wiimote stay out of the intruments so that way you dont need 50 wiimotes to play with more people other than yourself.

as for the online, i think its a lousy excuse that harmonix is pulling off saying that there is no space. you can easily shove the music into an SD card. Hell, Activi$ion is doing it, why not EA? on a side note: i cant wait to buy this game! lol

you will get complaints either way from every party

if HMX puts the wii mote into the guitar, then everyone will say that they ripped off neversoft's design

so i doubt they will do that

yes, there is online for guitar hero 3, but remember, its only a maximum of 2 people playing

if it lags on brawl with 4 players, you expect it to run perfectly with a full band on a rythmn game with no lag??

i have it on the 360 and get some lag if one person's connection isn't on par with the rest of the band members

the ideas for SD cards is pretty good because it really doesn't take much space for the songs

only reason i can think of is their concern of people making copies and handing them out

if the wii was the only thing i owned, i would just be glad that i have the option to own RB

they can just say RB will not be coming to the wii, period

The truth comes out.... Harmonix isn't making DLC available because of the Wii's lack of hard drive:

[QUOTE="Harmonix"]Come on Nintendo, we need a hard drive. That's what we want. The whole problem is there's nowhere to store {DLC}. . . . If the platform could do it, we'd jump on it. It's something that we championed to Nintendo, that we'd like to do it. Who knows what will happen down the line, I don't know what's coming down the line, but that's the reason there's no DLC in Wii Rock Band.JordanElek

This is no real surprise, since a lot of people figured this was the reason, but now there's no question. Hopefully Nintendo sees the problem here, finally, and comes up with a solution. Quickly.

Deffinatly not. Rockband is coming to Wii and it will sell, regardless of the color of the instument shaped plastic controllers and if there is or is not online multiplayer.

The truth comes out.... Harmonix isn't making DLC available because of the Wii's lack of hard drive:

[QUOTE="Harmonix"]Come on Nintendo, we need a hard drive. That's what we want. The whole problem is there's nowhere to store {DLC}. . . . If the platform could do it, we'd jump on it. It's something that we championed to Nintendo, that we'd like to do it. Who knows what will happen down the line, I don't know what's coming down the line, but that's the reason there's no DLC in Wii Rock Band.JordanElek

This is no real surprise, since a lot of people figured this was the reason, but now there's no question. Hopefully Nintendo sees the problem here, finally, and comes up with a solution. Quickly.

that doesnt explain online play, no wiimote inclusion in the instruments, it doesnt explain that its loooking like they are missing in game features, nor does it explain the sterile colored instruments or why they did not lower the price for a agame that is much less and much later.

[QUOTE="JordanElek"]

The truth comes out.... Harmonix isn't making DLC available because of the Wii's lack of hard drive:

[QUOTE="Harmonix"]Come on Nintendo, we need a hard drive. That's what we want. The whole problem is there's nowhere to store {DLC}. . . . If the platform could do it, we'd jump on it. It's something that we championed to Nintendo, that we'd like to do it. Who knows what will happen down the line, I don't know what's coming down the line, but that's the reason there's no DLC in Wii Rock Band.Cyber-

This is no real surprise, since a lot of people figured this was the reason, but now there's no question. Hopefully Nintendo sees the problem here, finally, and comes up with a solution. Quickly.

that doesnt explain online play, no wiimote inclusion in the instruments, it doesnt explain that its loooking like they are missing in game features, nor does it explain the sterile colored instruments or why they did not lower the price for a agame that is much less and much later.

It also doesn't explain the fact that you can play MP3 files off of your SD card (see Excite Truck or Endless Ocean), so technically there is, in fact, a way to play music in-game.

I still call BS, and I still say this is just a lazy effort.

[QUOTE="Cyber-"][QUOTE="JordanElek"]

The truth comes out.... Harmonix isn't making DLC available because of the Wii's lack of hard drive:

[QUOTE="Harmonix"]Come on Nintendo, we need a hard drive. That's what we want. The whole problem is there's nowhere to store {DLC}. . . . If the platform could do it, we'd jump on it. It's something that we championed to Nintendo, that we'd like to do it. Who knows what will happen down the line, I don't know what's coming down the line, but that's the reason there's no DLC in Wii Rock Band.bob_newman

This is no real surprise, since a lot of people figured this was the reason, but now there's no question. Hopefully Nintendo sees the problem here, finally, and comes up with a solution. Quickly.

that doesnt explain online play, no wiimote inclusion in the instruments, it doesnt explain that its loooking like they are missing in game features, nor does it explain the sterile colored instruments or why they did not lower the price for a agame that is much less and much later.

It also doesn't explain the fact that you can play MP3 files off of your SD card (see Excite Truck or Endless Ocean), so technically there is, in fact, a way to play music in-game.

I still call BS, and I still say this is just a lazy effort.

well the SD card will have to come from Nintendo to let them use it for in game memory. Its idfferent with Excite Truck.

[QUOTE="bob_newman"]

It also doesn't explain the fact that you can play MP3 files off of your SD card (see Excite Truck or Endless Ocean), so technically there is, in fact, a way to play music in-game.

I still call BS, and I still say this is just a lazy effort.

Cyber-

well the SD card will have to come from Nintendo to let them use it for in game memory. It is dfferent with Excite Truck.

Wait, what? I've played MP3s on Endless Ocean using a non-Nintendo SD card. I'm sure there's a way for Harmonix to lock the cards to make them console-specific.

[QUOTE="Cyber-"][QUOTE="bob_newman"]

It also doesn't explain the fact that you can play MP3 files off of your SD card (see Excite Truck or Endless Ocean), so technically there is, in fact, a way to play music in-game.

I still call BS, and I still say this is just a lazy effort.

bob_newman

well the SD card will have to come from Nintendo to let them use it for in game memory. It is dfferent with Excite Truck.

Wait, what? I've played MP3s on Endless Ocean using a non-Nintendo SD card. I'm sure there's a way for Harmonix to lock the cards to make them console-specific.

That would involve Nintendo's permission Im assuming. There must be a difference bewteen playing an external MP3 rather than in game content but I really dont know, maybe Nintendo has been putting up road blocks with in game content.

I have those old 4gb SD cards so giving more functionality to the SD card would be great.

Nintendo has been terrible about memory, its really lame of them and probabaly soiled alot of third party games being better.

Nintendo has been terrible about memory, its really lame of them and probabaly soiled alot of third party games being better.

Cyber-

Yep, but none of Nintendo's 1st party games need a harddrive to sell. It's been proven time and time again that Nintendo knows how to squeeze the most out of their consoles with the resources they're given. I have a feeling that they could care less about 3rd parties, as long as their 1st party stuff still sells.

[QUOTE="Cyber-"]

Nintendo has been terrible about memory, its really lame of them and probabaly soiled alot of third party games being better.

bob_newman

Yep, but none of Nintendo's 1st party games need a harddrive to sell. It's been proven time and time again that Nintendo knows how to squeeze the most out of their consoles with the resources they're given. I have a feeling that they could care less about 3rd parties, as long as their 1st party stuff still sells.

If they dont care about third party games then they are very stupid. It almost killed the GC and has been their single most terrible flaw with any Ninten do console since thw n64.

Not only that Nintendo can push not only their games further with load times and such but their nintendo wii channels, DLC, bigger downloadable games. The list goes on. This isnt just about more convenient way to store games with HDD or SD but it is pushing third party games out or at least the souls of the games and then further its limiting just about every feature with the Wii. This is an utter mess.

[QUOTE="Cyber-"]

Nintendo has been terrible about memory, its really lame of them and probabaly soiled alot of third party games being better.

bob_newman

Yep, but none of Nintendo's 1st party games need a harddrive to sell. It's been proven time and time again that Nintendo knows how to squeeze the most out of their consoles with the resources they're given. I have a feeling that they could care less about 3rd parties, as long as their 1st party stuff still sells.

If they dont care about third party games then they are very stupid. It almost killed the GC and has been their single most terrible flaw with any Nintendo console since thw N64.

Not only that Nintendo can push not only their games further with load times and such but their nintendo wii channels, DLC, bigger downloadable games. The list goes on. This isnt just about more convenient way to store games with HDD or SD but it is pushing third party games out or at least the souls of the games and then further its limiting just about every feature with the Wii. This is an utter mess.

This is an utter mess.

Cyber-

Uh, well, that depends.

From Nintendo's view, no, it's not a mess. Their games are selling better than they've ever sold since the SNES (In some cases even better than that), and people buy Nintendo games regardless of DLC or amazing online. They are in great shape right now. Sure, they don't offer what you want, but they offer something that is exclusive to Nintendo consoles, and they offer top-tier 1st party efforts (from both the reviewer's perspective, as well as a consumer's perspective). Again, they're in no trouble right now.

As for 3rd parties, well, it's too late for Nintendo to salvage that. They'll get some great 3rd party titles, but it's too late to ask Nintendo owners to buy a harddrive. There are over 20 million Wiis worldwide in people's living rooms. At this point in the lifecycle, the percentage of the current Wii owners who will actually go out and buy a harddrive if it were offered would be too low to make financial sense on Nintendo's part. Even if Nintendo released a harddrive, developers wouldn't be able to start making games that offer DLC for at a year (if not more).

It is simply too late to offer a harddrive for it to be sensible. It's like the expansion pak for the N64. They actually had to include the thing with Donkey Kong 64 because nobody was picking the thing up on its own. This ended up costing Nintendo a lot of money, and not many companies supported it (In fact, only 4 games needed it).

If you mean that it's a mess for consumers, well, then you'd be right. But I guess Nintendo is willing to accept that fact that this will bother a certain group of people and make them buy a console from one of the competitors. Maybe Nintendo doesn't really have much of an interest for the "hardcore" community anymore. I mean, there are 2 other companies that cater to that group, so with Nintendo's "family-friendly" image it kind of leaves them with few options. They tried to cater to "hardcore" players last gen and it bit them in the ass. Maybe they simply don't want to go that route right now.

But, being a Nintendo-console owner since the NES days, I can tell you that Nintendo has always done things differently. If it truly bothers you that much, buy a different console. I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy here, I'm just being honest. I've noticed that lately you seem to be really against what Nintendo is going for, so maybe you should stop supporting them if it's that much of an issue to you. That's the only way to get the message across. I mean, they don't read the forums, so your complaints aren't being heard, right?

[QUOTE="Cyber-"]

This is an utter mess.

bob_newman

Uh, well, that depends.

From Nintendo's view, no, it's not a mess. Their games are selling better than they've ever sold since the SNES (In some cases even better than that), and people buy Nintendo games regardless of DLC or amazing online. They are in great shape right now. Sure, they don't offer what you want, but they offer something that is exclusive to Nintendo consoles, and they offer top-tier 1st party efforts (from both the reviewer's perspective, as well as a consumer's perspective). Again, they're in no trouble right now.

As for 3rd parties, well, it's too late for Nintendo to salvage that. They'll get some great 3rd party titles, but it's too late to ask Nintendo owners to buy a harddrive. There are over 20 million Wiis worldwide in people's living rooms. At this point in the lifecycle, the percentage of the current Wii owners who will actually go out and buy a harddrive if it were offered would be too low to make financial sense on Nintendo's part. Even if Nintendo released a harddrive, developers wouldn't be able to start making games that offer DLC for at a year (if not more).

It is simply too late to offer a harddrive for it to be sensible. It's like the expansion pak for the N64. They actually had to include the thing with Donkey Kong 64 because nobody was picking the thing up on its own. This ended up costing Nintendo a lot of money, and not many companies supported it (In fact, only 4 games needed it).

If you mean that it's a mess for consumers, well, then you'd be right. But I guess Nintendo is willing to accept that fact that this will bother a certain group of people and make them buy a console from one of the competitors. Maybe Nintendo doesn't really have much of an interest for the "hardcore" community anymore. I mean, there are 2 other companies that cater to that group, so with Nintendo's "family-friendly" image it kind of leaves them with few options. They tried to cater to "hardcore" players last gen and it bit them in the ass. Maybe they simply don't want to go that route right now.

But, being a Nintendo-console owner since the NES days, I can tell you that Nintendo has always done things differently. If it truly bothers you that much, buy a different console. I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy here, I'm just being honest. I've noticed that lately you seem to be really against what Nintendo is going for, so maybe you should stop supporting them if it's that much of an issue to you. That's the only way to get the message across. I mean, they don't read the forums, so your complaints aren't being heard, right?

Yes Nintendo first party games are the core of everything at Nintendo. It brings back disgruntled fans ands makes them remember that though Nintendo has flaws they can still churn out the best games in the industry regardless of what system its on. That does not change the fact that if DLC, better online, and more appropriate memory storage devices were available that Nintendo would even further push the boundaries and cast bigger shadows.

3rd party games on Wii for the most part areto blame. I am right now talking about this stuff like memory and DLC not being available to them and I agree with you that they are to blame. At the same time Nintendo has to accept the fact that this is not like the SNES era where devs are dying to get their games on your system, there are three very powerful consoles out there all trying to get a piece so its really the 3rd parties making the demands. As for introducing new peripherals and hardware midway in a console's life they have had some success, in fact more success than anyother console provider. The expansion pak was supported by more than just DK64 but I know what your saying. All they would have to do is make sure that its heavily supported in the games. Its really as simple as that.

I dont see how this is a problem because Nintendo just has to sell it at a profit and make sure its used in as many games as possible. These things only fail because they are not supported.

Its really a mess for everyone but Nintendo. I dont know what its going to take to make them listen to people but I think its even bad for them if current trends keep up with third party support. PS2 is dying everyday and thats basically where all the multiplats are coming from. If Nintendo really wants to just forget 3rd party support then really mean it and make more 1st party games and really push them. I know this whole casual idea is still fresh in everyone's minds but in the end of the day the main supporters for Wii are still hardcore as shown with million seller games. The GC was misunderstood and horribly underrated but alot of that is Nintendo's fault. i dont see that as a good excuse for them maybe chaging different directions because that was not a full hearted attempt.

See during the NES and SNES days Nintendo had incredible 1st party games and then a plethora of 3rd party games to make the library very diverse. I think its still pretty much undisputed that that was the golden age of gaming if there ever was one. I have other consoles. I have the 360 and a good PC. i have always been well rounded in all systems. Since you have been monitering my overall posts in these forums ill just let you know that those systems do fill a gap in what should not be empty with Wii but that does not mean I like them more. 360 is nice and super polished in every essence of the word but from what I can think of it doesnt have anything that is exciting and creative as what Nintendo has to offer with the Wii. I complain alot about the wii because thats what Im most passionate about. The mistakes i see on that system affect me more than the fact that 360 is mainly shooters and still cant play alot of my old Xbox games let alone the same memory. so thats why I am very outspoken about it. Im a fan and I really do like the system even if it does nott sound like it but i am NOT a fanboy and I will not just be complacant and just not care about these crazy things going on.

I dont know if you have not noticed but this is a public forum and I am fully aware that nintendo will not listen. I talk about it because i want to see what others think. I dont know about you guys but its just lame with some stuff.

[QUOTE="Cyber-"]

This is an utter mess.

bob_newman

Uh, well, that depends.

From Nintendo's view, no, it's not a mess. Their games are selling better than they've ever sold since the SNES (In some cases even better than that), and people buy Nintendo games regardless of DLC or amazing online. They are in great shape right now. Sure, they don't offer what you want, but they offer something that is exclusive to Nintendo consoles, and they offer top-tier 1st party efforts (from both the reviewer's perspective, as well as a consumer's perspective). Again, they're in no trouble right now.

As for 3rd parties, well, it's too late for Nintendo to salvage that. They'll get some great 3rd party titles, but it's too late to ask Nintendo owners to buy a harddrive. There are over 20 million Wiis worldwide in people's living rooms. At this point in the lifecycle, the percentage of the current Wii owners who will actually go out and buy a harddrive if it were offered would be too low to make financial sense on Nintendo's part. Even if Nintendo released a harddrive, developers wouldn't be able to start making games that offer DLC for at a year (if not more).

It is simply too late to offer a harddrive for it to be sensible. It's like the expansion pak for the N64. They actually had to include the thing with Donkey Kong 64 because nobody was picking the thing up on its own. This ended up costing Nintendo a lot of money, and not many companies supported it (In fact, only 4 games needed it).

If you mean that it's a mess for consumers, well, then you'd be right. But I guess Nintendo is willing to accept that fact that this will bother a certain group of people and make them buy a console from one of the competitors. Maybe Nintendo doesn't really have much of an interest for the "hardcore" community anymore. I mean, there are 2 other companies that cater to that group, so with Nintendo's "family-friendly" image it kind of leaves them with few options. They tried to cater to "hardcore" players last gen and it bit them in the ass. Maybe they simply don't want to go that route right now.

But, being a Nintendo-console owner since the NES days, I can tell you that Nintendo has always done things differently. If it truly bothers you that much, buy a different console. I'm not trying to sound like a fanboy here, I'm just being honest. I've noticed that lately you seem to be really against what Nintendo is going for, so maybe you should stop supporting them if it's that much of an issue to you. That's the only way to get the message across. I mean, they don't read the forums, so your complaints aren't being heard, right?

Yes Nintendo first party games are the core of everything at Nintendo. It brings back disgruntled fans ands makes them remember that though Nintendo has flaws they can still churn out the best games in the industry regardless of what system its on. That does not change the fact that if DLC, better online, and more appropriate memory storage devices were available that Nintendo would even further push the boundaries and cast bigger shadows.

3rd party games on Wii for the most part areto blame. I am, right now talking about this stuff like memory and DLC not being available to them, but I agree with you that they are to blame. At the same time Nintendo has to accept the fact that this is not like the SNES era where devs are dying to get their games on your system, there are three very powerful consoles out there all trying to get a piece so its really the 3rd parties making the demands. As for introducing new peripherals and hardware midway in a console's life they have had some success, in fact more success than anyother console provider. The expansion pak was supported by more than just DK64 but I know what your saying. All they would have to do is make sure that its heavily supported in the games. Its really as simple as that.

I dont see how this is a problem because Nintendo just has to sell it at a profit and make sure its used in as many games as possible. These things only fail because they are not supported.

Its really a mess for everyone but Nintendo. I dont know what its going to take to make them listen to people but I think its even bad for them if current trends keep up with third party support. PS2 is dying everyday and thats basically where all the multiplats are coming from. If Nintendo really wants to just forget 3rd party support then really mean it and make more 1st party games and really push them. I know this whole casual idea is still fresh in everyone's minds but at the end of the day the main supporters for Wii are still hardcore as shown with million seller games. The GC was misunderstood and horribly underrated but alot of that is Nintendo's fault. I dont see that as a good excuse for them maybe chaging different directions because that was not a full hearted attempt.

See during the NES and SNES days Nintendo had incredible 1st party games and then a plethora of 3rd party games to make the library very diverse. I think its still pretty much undisputed that that was the golden age of gaming if there ever was one. I have other consoles. I have the 360 and a good PC. I have always been well rounded in all systems. Since you have been monitering my overall posts in these forums Ill just let you know that those systems do fill a gap in what should not be empty with Wii, but that does not mean I like them more. 360 is nice and super polished in every essence of the word but from what I can think of it doesnt have anything that is exciting and creative as what Nintendo has to offer with the Wii. I complain alot about the Wii because thats what Im most passionate about. The mistakes I see on that system affect me more than the fact that 360 is mainly shooters and still cant play alot of my old Xbox games let alone the same memory. So thats why I am very outspoken about it. Im a fan and I really do like the system even if it does not sound like it, but I am NOT a fanboy and I will not just be complacant and just not care about these crazy things going on.

I dont know if you have not noticed but this is a public forum and I am fully aware that nintendo will not listen. I talk about it because i want to see what others think. I dont know about you guys but its just lame with some stuff.

I think we're pretty much on the same page. I mean, I disagree with some of what you say, but it's like splitting hairs at this point. So instead of going back and forth, knowing fully well that we're not going to completely convince eachother, I'll just note a few last things:

At the same time Nintendo has to accept the fact that this is not like the SNES era where devs are dying to get their games on your system, there are three very powerful consoles out there all trying to get a piece so its really the 3rd parties making the demands.

Cyber-

Yeah, it's not like the SNES era. I think that's the biggest difference here with 3rd parties. In today's age, no company is going to succeed without killer 1st-party efforts. That's why the PS3 has floundered so far. Look at most of the highest-rated games for their console: Multiplat titles available on the 360. That's not good enough to get them anywhere in sales. Nintendo, on the other hand, has had amazing 1st party games so far, and as a result they're currently killing the competition in the market. I think that suggests that (to the majority) 1st party is much, much more important than 3rd party support.

See during the NES and SNES days Nintendo had incredible 1st party games and then a plethora of 3rd party games to make the library very diverse. I think its still pretty much undisputed that that was the golden age of gaming if there ever was one.

Cyber-

Yes, it was the golden age, so to speak. I agree with that statement fully. BUT, that said, I don't think it will ever go back to that. No matter how much you want amazing 3rd party support, it's not going to happen with the Wii. As I said before, we will get some killer apps, but it won't be anything like the days of the NES and the SNES. Games were simpler to make back then, and budgets were much lower.

Today, the budgets for games have gotten so high that banking that much on the Wii is too much of a risk for 3rd parties. I mean, why make a non-High Definition game for the Wii (where it would have to be exclusive because of the lower, unacceptable technical specs when compared with the competitors) when you can just make a game for the other 2 systems that you know will sell?

It's also important to note that 3rd parties seem to think that it's ok to get their 3rd or 4th string dev teams to work on a Wii game, while leaving the "more important" versions of the game to their top teams. That's the way it's going to be, just because the Wii isn't as powerful. No external hard drive, headset, or removal of friend-codes is going to change that fact. Inferior graphics = inferior support.

Graphics are all that most 3rd parties have going for them, because most of the well-established franchises are console-exclusive. That's why, on the 360, you'll see a bunch of 3rd parties making FPS after FPS after FPS. Each one is basically the same concept (You shoot people), just with slightly better graphics then past games and maybe one unique gameplay difference (of course, there are exceptions).

but I am NOT a fanboy and I will not just be complacant and just not care about these crazy things going on.

Cyber-

Hey, I'm not a fanboy either. It may sometimes seem like I'm just blindly following whatever Nintendo does, but that's not the case. I still scratch my head whenever Nintendo makes a dumb mistake just like everyone else. I still sit here and think "well that's kind of a weird choice you made there, Nintendo". The only difference is that I choose not to voice that negativity because I see no point in complaining about it...someone else will always be there to do it for me.

Most importantly, I just prefer to think about the positives. For instance, I can trust that Nintendo knows what they're doing most of the time. I mean, they wouldn't still be alive and kicking after over 20 years in the console business if they didn't have a clue about what people really want, right? In the end, they'll still be around making amazing games with unbeatable gameplay, and that's all that really matters to me.