Does Something Need To Be Done With The Casual?

When the Wii started it was geared towards the casual and then Nintendo said that when the casual was hooked there would be "bridge" titles that change the casual.

Does that really need to happen anymore?

Look at Wii, it's a casual console that's powered almost exclusively by it's core of casual users. All that's done is made it a colossal financial success for Nintendo. Everything casual = phenominal success.

I used to think that "bridge" titles were the smart way to go but instead it makes more sense to just stick with the casual because Nintendo's shown that doing that makes you successful.

Yes, I know that you're going to say "well Nintendo's always been casual" and that's true but the Wii is their finest job of reaching that market and why shouldn't they keep up with it? They spend almost 3 decades trying to find the perfect combination to reach the casual user then throw it all away?

The casual user doesn't need to go anywhere and I think Nintendo is seeing it. Games that are able to play by themselves for users unable to pass challenges in New Super Mario and then stripping away everything that would be thought of as difficult for a new user in Mario Galaxy 2 allowing a more streamlined and easygoing experience when completing the game.

The bottom line is this, the more people who play and enjoy games the better and Nintendo is doing that in spades this gen by taking in 4 year olds and grandmothers and people who gave up gaming in the past and saying "come on back, you can totally do this" and the casuals are responding by supporting Nintendo more then any group has ever supported them before.

What do you guys think? Does something need to be done with the casual audience on the Wii or should Nintnedo just empower it like they've been doing all generation and forget about changing them?

Shoot them all, then give us our Zelda. :P

Ok, but seriously now...I think that there's no 'need' to bridge the alleged gap between casual games and hardcore games if it's not going to be used in the first place. There may be a few people that take advantage of such a thing, but it risks alienating the 'hardcore' population and not attracting enough of the 'casual core' in the first place.

I think they need to have both causal and hardcore titles right now. The casual gamer can see the hardcore (maybe star fox or f zero) and think it looks fun and give it a try. Eventually a bridge will be bulit and they will be like many of us are today. But for many people with a wii it is going to be the only console they ever own, Nintendo needs to remeber that as well

I'm thinking that they have begun their bridging plan already with the super guide thing. New Super Mario Bros. on the DSis the easiest Mario platformer to date IMO then Nintendo added the Super Guide to New Super Mario Bros. Wii and we get a Mario game that is more difficult than almost every previous title in the franchise. I have high hopes that Galaxy 2 will give me a solid challenge so that I feel good about my accomplishments thanks to the new guide feature.

Believe it or not, the super guide may be Nintendo's most genius idea ever and Mario is the ideal bridge game! Everyone gets what they want

I have a hard time finding this clear line like you do between hardcore and casual gamers. The mainstreaming of games is something that is for the better, for the majority. I'm talking about linearity, additions like super-guide which is optional, death of Trial and Error gameplay.

With the super-guide, I have no problem whatsoever with it, because I won't use it unless I have a hard time understanding in some complex puzzle how the dev was thinking in order to solve it the way you are supposed to. But, I will die after watching it and complete it myself, of course. I love the fact that if you use the SG, you will only recieve a bronze star in SMG2 and not a golden one. Something that will seperate me and you from the crowd.

I love playing games with everyone, even non gamers. But at the same time I want there to be something like the example mentioned above, that will separate me from them.

If you are talking about Wii Fit and such, I don't see the problem here. The 'game' is loved by many, isn't that good? Sure, for you and me it could be a setback because making these games takes time and resources away from the kind of game hardcore gamers wants, but at the same time, as long as our games are huge blockbusters (which they are), I have no problem with these casual games.

I mean, as long as I get SSBB, MKWii, SMG1+2, Zelda TP+Wii, Metroid Prime Trilogy + M:OM I'm fine with it. I don't care as much for the other franchises, those are expendable. We have to be realistic, of course they will make Wii Fit over Starfox / F-zero and even my beloved Kid Icarus game. Also they can't crap out more of the kind of games we want, and instead take a break in between with a casual game.

TL : DR; There are ALOT of titles for hardcore gamers, counting DS too. The term you use "bridge title" associated with mainstreamed gaming is the future. It's not only happening on the Nintendo front. Go to SW and you'll see a crapload of "They destroyed CoD with MW2" threads because of the accessible gameplay aka no longer skill-oriented but instead a party-experience. That's why there are oldschool games like Mega man 9+10 out there and more to come, because they cater to a dying species of gaming.

"They destroyed CoD with MW2" threads because of the accessible gameplay aka no longer skill-oriented but instead a party-experience. That's why there are oldschool games like Mega man 9+10 out there and more to come, because they cater to a dying species of gaming.

kontejner44

The mainstream audience will always respond to the same stimulus, it just comes down to taste, A grandmother probably isn't going to play CoD with her grandkids, but she would play Wii Sports or LBP. There is no divide, there is just the mainstream audience who each has their taste, but respond to the same thing. All Nintendo needs to continue to do and the gaming industry in general, is offer variety. Some people will like Wii Fit and LBP and others will like GeOW and Zelda. Despite the undeserved elitism of other half of the mainstream audience, the game industry has shown in the past that it cant survive on a static audience, and cutting off half of the mainstream audience is the road to ruin. Especially if they are going to continue to try the whole bigger is better routine with $700 consoles and such.

[QUOTE="kontejner44"]

"They destroyed CoD with MW2" threads because of the accessible gameplay aka no longer skill-oriented but instead a party-experience. That's why there are oldschool games like Mega man 9+10 out there and more to come, because they cater to a dying species of gaming.

Sepewrath

The mainstream audience will always respond to the same stimulus, it just comes down to taste, A grandmother probably isn't going to play CoD with her grandkids, but she would play Wii Sports or LBP. There is no divide, there is just the mainstream audience who each has their taste, but respond to the same thing. All Nintendo needs to continue to do and the gaming industry in general, is offer variety. Some people will like Wii Fit and LBP and others will like GeOW and Zelda. Despite the undeserved elitism of other half of the mainstream audience, the game industry has shown in the past that it cant survive on a static audience, and cutting off half of the mainstream audience is the road to ruin. Especially if they are going to continue to try the whole bigger is better routine with $700 consoles and such.

Yeah, I would also like to add that the only real casual games out there today are something like Wii Fit, Nintendogz and Cooking mama. These are not even considered to be 'games' in the traditional sense.

Wii Fit / Cooking mama = Casual

SMG1+2 / Zelda TP+Wii / MPT+M:OM = Hardcore (with modern game mechanics)

Games are games and Wii Fit and Cooking Mama are no different, they have goals, winning and losing, scores etc. Saying those aren't games in a traditional sense is like saying Guitar Hero isn't a game in the traditional sense. The only thing I can think of that isn't a traditional game on the Wii is EA Active, it looks like a straight up exercise tape. But I haven't seen it in person, so I cant make that call, the same applies to Nintendoqz, I haven't seen it.

^There is NO such thing a casual game or casual for that matter. If you want to say those games cater to the mainstream audience, that's fine. but all games do, like MM10's easy mode for example. Every individual games audience(and I hate to use this abused word) is a niche audience. Like 15 million people bought MW2 out of the possible hundred millon potential consumers between consoles and PC. And since most games will never even see that level of the success, games don't try and appeal only to the dedicated fanbase of that game. So every game appeals to the greater mainstream audience as much as possible, Mario is no different, neither is God of War, Dead Space, Splinter Cell, Halo etc.

^There is NO such thing a casual game or casual for that matter. If you want to say those games cater to the mainstream audience, that's fine. but all games do, like MM10's easy mode for example. Every individual games audience(and I hate to use this abused word) is a niche audience. Like 15 million people bought MW2 out of the possible hundred millon potential consumers between consoles and PC. And since most games will never even see that level of the success, games don't try and appeal only to the dedicated fanbase of that game. So every game appeals to the greater mainstream audience as much as possible, Mario is no different, neither is God of War, Dead Space, Splinter Cell, Halo etc.

Thought (incorporating Nintendo's "Bridging" strategy):

1. Release the Wii with the casual market in mind, but later bridging a gap creating "gamers" more so out of the casuals.
2. Success! The Wii is a hit. Sales are huge.
3. As of about year and a bit a go, Wii sales are slowing. Miyamoto claims "lack of good software" is the problem.
4. Nintendo has a huge installed base but sales are slowing. This is where their original idea of bringing out non casual software comes into play.

5. Nintendo have Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid: Other M, Zelda Wii, Sin and Punishment (and help with packages and advertising for Monster Hunter Tri) all this year (and possibly more). All pretty "hardcore" games. This not only may appeal to the current installed base of casuals to pick up and play some "hardcore" titles that they're not used to, but this may also appeal to other gamers that Nintendo haven't been advertising much to (that is, the people who chose PS360 over the Wii).

This is just an idea. Criticise and construct it. My main question would be:

What does creating gamers out of casuals do for Nintendo? Well my current reply to that would be either:

1. To Nintendo, sales are simply slowing, it's time for them to take a slightly different approach (but still with the original business model in mind).
2. More and new gamers that know the Nintendo label not only a casual level.
3. Having more and new users simply in the market now, rather than staying a gen (for the Wii) and leaving.
4. A unity between the casual and "hardcore" market allows for more talk about Nintendo and thus spreading the Wii virus. The casuals are the majority, and the majority have a Wii.

I could go on.

To answer the initial question: According to this theory, to Nintendo something needs to be done. They don't want to settle for "slowing" sales down to the level of the PS360. It's time to take action. Not only that, let's be proactive and do something with our installed base.

Correct me if you disagree with anything said ^ I'm just throwing around ideas.

BTW, I have the word "hardcore" in "" because I don't really agree with the term. Nor did I completely agree with the term "casual" initially. But the term "casual" has slightly evolved over the course of this generation to my liking, that is, it captures nicely a certain market. "Hardcore" on the other hand, does not.

I think we need to build a bridge and get over the whole casual/hardcore argument once and for all.

they can keep their casual consumers but they also have to consider their hardcore traditional gamers like me and make good games without spoiling and ruining them so those casual gamers play them.

I think we need to build a bridge and get over the whole casual/hardcore argument once and for all.

DDRMom

In that case we have to reach a consensus.

To do so we need to define exactly what a casual and hardcore game is.

SMG is clearly hardcore... :P

I think this speaks volumes

They're happy where they are and they don't want to move. I wouldn't want to move if I were happy with where I was. wiifan001

The casual audience hasn't changed but they've also stayed a force with the Wii

The first Wii Fit sold over 22 million and then Wii Fit Plus comes out and it's already nearing 12 million in just 7 months

Not only is the casual the largest audience on the Wii but they're the ones that support it the most. You can give them one casual title and they'll support it with amazing numbers and then you release a sequel and they bring the support again.

Don't put God of War in the same situation as Mario. That's pitiful. Same thing with Modern Warfail 2. Freekin terrorism. Terrorism applies to the casuals. Uh-huh, sure. Cutting off body parts one limb at a time. And with Dead Space, Yeah, that appeals to athe greater mainstream audience. Sure.... wiifan001

no, nothing needs to be done.

casuals get their games and nintendo has given me quality games. im cool.

i mean 1 console cant have eveything.

[QUOTE="DDRMom"]

I think we need to build a bridge and get over the whole casual/hardcore argument once and for all.

kontejner44

In that case we have to reach a consensus.

To do so we need to define exactly what a casual and hardcore game is.

SMG is clearly hardcore... :P

That won't work. The only way a consensus will ever be met is if everyone acknowledges the fact that there isn't such a thing as a casual or hardcore game. Otherwise, you'll continue to have people constantly making arguments to disprove one label in favor of the other. The two terms have become so elistist-oriented and exclusive, there's not much of a chance that they can be used reasonably now, so the best thing to do would be just dispose of them completely. Saying "hardcore" or "casual" these days almost always gives off the impression that you're either one or the other, and if you're one of either, you can't embrace the other in any sense.

The sad irony is that the Nintendo created and marketed the Wii for the exact opposite reason of this hardcore/casual nonsense, and it's become the posterboy of the exclusive side of gaming in the more vocal gaming community. Getting on topic with the subject now, the thing Nintendo needs to do is just manage to maintain, if not improve, the balance of its games from a mainstream standpoint and keep consumers interested. Nintendo can't keep throwing out sequel after sequel with its established franchises, nor can it focus solely on new concepts. Just think about what Nintendo has done over the Wii's life, and you'll see why the system has flourished in this regard.

When the Wii launched with Wii Sports, there was also Zelda: Twilight Princess. When Super Smash Bros. Brawl came out, Mario Kart Wii and Wii Fit followed shortly afterwards. The gap between Wii Fit Plus and New Super Mario Bros. Wii was also pretty small. When Nintendo has gone with this formula, all of its games have done well, and the Wii got explosive sales numbers from a hardware AND software standpoint. It would be wise if Nintendo continued to develop games with the interest of gamers of ALL skill levels and demographics, as that's what has worked wonders for them thus far.

I don't think there needs to be any kind of bridge from "casual gamer" to "hardcore gamer." In terms of Nintendo's success, that bridge makes no difference. It's like saying that in order to increase the population of the United States, we need to build a bridge from Chicago to New York. Regardless of which side of the bridge you're on, you're still in the United States.

The only bridge that matters is from non-gamer to gamer. Get someone to cross that bridge and you've made a real impact. Nintendo's strategy now should be to keep everyone inside its borders, regardless of where they happen to settle down. If they eventually move from Chicago to New York, good, but that's not necessary. As long as they don't say "screw this I'm moving to France," Nintendo is set.

I don't think there needs to be any kind of bridge from "casual gamer" to "hardcore gamer." In terms of Nintendo's success, that bridge makes no difference. It's like saying that in order to increase the population of the United States, we need to build a bridge from Chicago to New York. Regardless of which side of the bridge you're on, you're still in the United States.

The only bridge that matters is from non-gamer to gamer. Get someone to cross that bridge and you've made a real impact. Nintendo's strategy now should be to keep everyone inside its borders, regardless of where they happen to settle down. If they eventually move from Chicago to New York, good, but that's not necessary. As long as they don't say "screw this I'm moving to France," Nintendo is set.

JordanElek

Yeah what you are saying is true. I think Jason says that Nintendo should lure the non gamers with casual games and then turn them into hardcore gamers so that his dying breed of games still gets developed.

I think this speaks volumes

They're happy where they are and they don't want to move. I wouldn't want to move if I were happy with where I was. wiifan001

The casual audience hasn't changed but they've also stayed a force with the Wii

The first Wii Fit sold over 22 million and then Wii Fit Plus comes out and it's already nearing 12 million in just 7 months

Not only is the casual the largest audience on the Wii but they're the ones that support it the most. You can give them one casual title and they'll support it with amazing numbers and then you release a sequel and they bring the support again.

I really don't feel like particpating in a topic like this again as I've already summed up my views on these matters pretty well, and I'd love to re-post them in here but I can't find them so I'll try to sum it up real quick.

Every gamer is unique and special in his or her own traits/habits/likes and dislikes just as any consumer in any market is.

That being said companys can't cater to consumers at an individual level as that would be insanely impossible so their is a need to generalize their audiences in different categories. This is what happens in just about every industry: sports, film, music, ect, so why would the gaming industry be any differet. All these industrys have generalized their audiences into certain groups to better set a general target for just who their trying to get their products to appeal to.

So yeah I think its fair to say that their are different types of gamers like casuals and traditional, but I also have 2 problems with how their used around here:

First they are usually grossly miss-understood/defined and used waaaay to loosely.

Second their just talked about waaay to much, I mean their mostly industry terms that the higher ups should be talking/worrying about not us consumers. I can totally understand how ppl are getting sick of hearing about these terms so so much!

I don't think anything needs to be done with the casual gamers/games. Let them have their fun and let them support the system. Actually let them...GASP...enjoy their system.

I believe that something need to be done with the hardcore gamers/games. Why can't we have equal opportunities to support the system, let alone have fun on it? I don't think it's fair that I have to surf through thousands of copies of Wii Fit and M&M's Racing just to get to something like Zelda, Call of Duty, Monster Hunter, etc. And even then, I'm lucky if I find any copies of those "hardcore" games at all.

Let the casual gamers have their fun. But I want some fun too.

WHEN was Mario Galaxy ever hardcore? One thing I've noticed this gen is that Mario is now considered hardcore because "Wii ____" is casual. SMG is totally casual and that's one the title I can't understand where people call it hardcore. Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, Super Paper Mario, SMG, SSBB, they are all catered to the casualwiifan001

The danger of relying on a large casual userbase is that they have no loyalty for any system. If the Wii 2 won't satisfy their needs then they will move on. It happened with the PS2 to PS3 and Sony still hasn't recovered from the loss.

Nintendo are walking a thin line if they put too much hope in the casuals loyalty. They have been pushing out more and more core gamers from the Wii to the other consoles and that could potentially come back and hurt them badly when Wii 2 launches.

The other problem with the casual userbase is that they have a tendency to be satisfied with one or two games per genre. They have one Guitar Hero game, one Mario platformer, one mini-game collection, etc etc. This basically means that Nintendo can walk into a wall next generation because their largest userbase are already satisfied with games they've bough for the Wii.

I think "bridging" casual gamers to become mainstream gamers is necessary for Nintendo to have a healthy business in the future.

The danger of relying on a large casual userbase is that they have no loyalty for any system. If the Wii 2 won't satisfy their needs then they will move on. It happened with the PS2 to PS3 and Sony still hasn't recovered from the loss.

Nintendo are walking a thin line if they put too much hope in the casuals loyalty. They have been pushing out more and more core gamers from the Wii to the other consoles and that could potentially come back and hurt them badly when Wii 2 launches.

The other problem with the casual userbase is that they have a tendency to be satisfied with one or two games per genre. They have one Guitar Hero game, one Mario platformer, one mini-game collection, etc etc. This basically means that Nintendo can walk into a wall next generation because their largest userbase are already satisfied with games they've bough for the Wii.

I think "bridging" casual gamers to become mainstream gamers is necessary for Nintendo to have a healthy business in the future.

JLF1

Casuals are fine but i hope they still promote some other titles and games like madworld, demon blade, deadspace, DBZ, redsteel....that sorta thing. MH seems like a good bridge as stated in other posts

Casuals are fine but i hope they still promote some other titles and games like madworld, demon blade, deadspace, DBZ, redsteel....that sorta thing (not the big sellers).

PA_DUTCH

[QUOTE="PA_DUTCH"]

Casuals are fine but i hope they still promote some other titles and games like madworld, demon blade, deadspace, DBZ, redsteel....that sorta thing (not the big sellers).

Kojo222

Well the reason those companys run those types of advertising campaigns is because for the most part their not trying to appeal to casuals, their after a different target crowd.

You wouldn't invest tons of money into advertising a R rated Horror movie on say cartoon network or nickelodian :P

It would be a waste just as it would be a waste of money for those gaming companies to have long advertising campaigns targeted at a group that will probably forget the games name after the commercials over due to zero interest in that type of product!

The danger of relying on a large casual userbase is that they have no loyalty for any system. If the Wii 2 won't satisfy their needs then they will move on. It happened with the PS2 to PS3 and Sony still hasn't recovered from the loss.

JLF1

The danger of relying on a large casual userbase is that they have no loyalty for any system. If the Wii 2 won't satisfy their needs then they will move on. It happened with the PS2 to PS3 and Sony still hasn't recovered from the loss.

JLF1

I don't think brand loyalty exists or should exist, at least it doesn't in my book. I only satisfy my needs as you said. As much as I dislike Microsoft because they basically killed Rare, I'd still buy the system if I had enough money to own yet another console. On the flipside, if Nintendo would have stopped making the kinds of games that I will enjoy, I won't buy their next system it's that simple. I bought the Wii because I was already convinced by Wii sports and Zelda TP, also knowing their history there is just no way they will disappoint to the extreme where I won't buy their next big thing, which is 3DS!