Fixing the Legend Of Zelda!

Nintendo really needs to improve Zelda, and remaking the Wind Waker is a good start in my opion. I think the game was higher underrated. The game was awesome. With that being said I think they need to make a new feeling Zelda game. The DS ones sucked. The lack of button use for me killed it I hated playing the whole game with the screen. The ones on the Wii was nothing to brag on could the Wii U be the revival of a good Zelda game? I sure hope so I thought Twilight Princess felt like a game I beat a 100 times, and I really did not like Skyward sword! I think the last great and amazing Zelda game was indeed the Wind Waker! Had a brand new polish, and good game play. The game was the funniest one of the series. I really wish the Wii U has a good one come out on it! Besides the remake. What do you guys think? 

A debate with no reasonable end.

It's not broken.

Skyward Sword is the best game I've played on the Wii and an awesome addition to the series IMHO. However, I do feel like Wind Waker was the pinnacle of the franchise. That game was absolutely massive and full of things to do.

I loved playing zelda on the DS with touch-only controls.

Ever really watch someone play an older zelda like minish cap. You have to line yourself up with the d-pad exactly to attack. Most of your attacks just hit nothing but air because you're either a bit too far a way or too far left/right. In PH, you just tap and instant attack. It's wonderful.

PH's controls bugged me a bit at first too, but after I beat it I played minish cap again and it just felt so clunky.

I loved playing zelda on the DS with touch-only controls.

Ever really watch someone play an older zelda like minish cap. You have to line yourself up with the d-pad exactly to attack. Most of your attacks just hit nothing but air because you're either a bit too far a way or too far left/right. In PH, you just tap and instant attack. It's wonderful.

PH's controls bugged me a bit at first too, but after I beat it I played minish cap again and it just felt so clunky.

goblaa

They need to hit that sweet spot between atmospheric (TP) and joyful (SS), leaning more on atmosphere, and they need to cut out the filler, have a lot better side quests and stop with the ridiculous handholding that was in SS.  I say stop making Zelda accessible to kids completely.  There is a frick ton of improvement and evolution needed in Zelda.

And the item and dungeon design needs a ton of improvement.  Skyward Sword was actually a huge downgrade from TP in that regard.  We need more item's like the spinner.

What is wrong with you. Majora's Mask was the only bad Zelda. Skyward Sword was amazing. Its in my top 3. Ocarina is #1, Windwaker and Skyward Sword fight for the #2 spot.Master_Of_Fools

Call me crazy, but an open-worlded Zelda that didn't follow the same formulaic "get this and go to that dungeon" structure would go a long ways to making Zelda fresh again. The one thing I HATED about Skyward Sword was the wasted potential. So much world undernearth the cloud barrier and you couldn't explore it. You got three regions to explore, and ... ugh... they had you backtrack through them again! THAT needs to stop right there. No more backtracking. Backtracking is the weakest form of game development and it stifles creative experiences. If Nintendo wants to continue to be heralded as an innovative game maker, that's the first obstacle they can tackle, and they can start with Zelda. Oh, and no more patronizing partner that chirp incomprehensible jibberish in your ear whenever you pick up an item would help, too.JustPlainLucas

I think we will have to wait for the Wii U, and 3DS to finally get another 10/10 Zelda quality game. My main concern is they seem to be running out of ideas. I heard peoples opinion of the story of the timelines, and they were put together better then Nintendos. That's just sorriness on their part.

Shattered-dream

[QUOTE="Shattered-dream"]I think we will have to wait for the Wii U, and 3DS to finally get another 10/10 Zelda quality game. My main concern is they seem to be running out of ideas. I heard peoples opinion of the story of the timelines, and they were put together better then Nintendos. That's just sorriness on their part.JustPlainLucas

I said I'm glad they are reconizing it. Yeah remakes are old, but the wind waker was underrated. In my opinion, but yeah they need to make a better Zelda game like that trailer of the Wii U Zelda HD!

Shattered-dream

Just curious, but how did you conclude that a tech demo trailer would be a "better" Zelda game? For all we know, it could have been hands-down the worst in the series had Nintendo did anything more with it. :P

Anyways, as a whole, I think the Zelda series may be too aware of the expectations placed in front of it with each and every installment. It's starting to seem like a lot of fans have ALttP and/or OoT ingrained into their vision of the series so strongly, it'd be hard for Nintendo to "fix" the series, no matter what it does. Wind Waker got knocked solely because of its unique and well-executed visual style, while Skyward Sword's controls seemed to have turned a lot of people off, despite the fact that they actually worked. It's not like Nintendo hasn't tried for the most part (I still believe Twilight Princess served as little OoT fanservice, though), but it appears that the changes have been unwelcome to a lot of the series' enthusiasts.

Maybe it's because I don't hold the series in the super-high regard some of my fellow gamers do, but I'd like to know what exactly is "wrong" with the series. It may have its ups and downs, but that's to be expected for such a long-running series. I just think Nintendo needs to let go and continue to find ways to make the series 'fun,' similar to how it tends to handle most Super Mario games.

[QUOTE="Shattered-dream"]

I said I'm glad they are reconizing it. Yeah remakes are old, but the wind waker was underrated. In my opinion, but yeah they need to make a better Zelda game like that trailer of the Wii U Zelda HD!

Madmangamer364

Just curious, but how did you conclude that a tech demo trailer would be a "better" Zelda game? For all we know, it could have been hands-down the worst in the series had Nintendo did anything more with it. :P

Anyways, as a whole, I think the Zelda series may be too aware of the expectations placed in front of it with each and every installment. It's starting to seem like a lot of fans have ALttP and/or OoT ingrained into their vision of the series so strongly, it'd be hard for Nintendo to "fix" the series, no matter what it does. Wind Waker got knocked solely because of its unique and well-executed visual style, while Skyward Sword's controls seemed to have turned a lot of people off, despite the fact that they actually worked. It's not like Nintendo hasn't tried for the most part (I still believe Twilight Princess served as little OoT fanservice, though), but it appears that the changes have been unwelcome to a lot of the series' enthusiasts.

Maybe it's because I don't hold the series in the super-high regard some of my fellow gamers do, but I'd like to know what exactly is "wrong" with the series. It may have its ups and downs, but that's to be expected for such a long-running series. I just think Nintendo needs to let go and continue to find ways to make the series 'fun,' similar to how it tends to handle most Super Mario games.

Maybe it's because I don't hold the series in the super-high regard some of my fellow gamers do, but I'd like to know what exactly is "wrong" with the series.Madmangamer364

The main problem the Zelda series has(or nearly any major Nintendo series in general) is that the difficulty overall has decreased over the years. Gamers weened on classics such as the NES Zeldas and ALttP require a bit more challenge to match what they at least grew up with. The first enemies in the Dark World in ALttP you run into are taking a handful of hearts on one single hit. In modern Zeldas, you lose a measly one-quarter heart piece if you take a hit, so Link can pretty much run around Hyrule or Outset Island like a buffon with little worry about actually falling to foes. Even with the absence of a hard fought playthrough, games like WW, TP and SS are all fantastic games in their own right, but Nintendo has just gotten too soft on us.

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

Maybe it's because I don't hold the series in the super-high regard some of my fellow gamers do, but I'd like to know what exactly is "wrong" with the series.FFCYAN

The main problem the Zelda series has(or nearly any major Nintendo series in general) is that the difficulty overall has decreased over the years. Gamers weened on classics such as the NES Zeldas and ALttP require a bit more challenge to match what they at least grew up with. The first enemies in the Dark World in ALttP you run into are taking a handful of hearts on one single hit. In modern Zeldas, you lose a measly one-quarter heart piece if you take a hit, so Link can pretty much run around Hyrule or Outset Island like a buffon with little worry about actually falling to foes. Even with the absence of a hard fought playthrough, games like WW, TP and SS are all fantastic games in their own right, but Nintendo has just gotten too soft on us.

I agree with you there, but it's not only the difficulty WW was amazing, but TP and SS was ok for me. People who say the DS ones was good is kissing Nintendos behind. Whether they want to agree or not it sucked!

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

[QUOTE="Shattered-dream"]

I said I'm glad they are reconizing it. Yeah remakes are old, but the wind waker was underrated. In my opinion, but yeah they need to make a better Zelda game like that trailer of the Wii U Zelda HD!

Shattered-dream

Just curious, but how did you conclude that a tech demo trailer would be a "better" Zelda game? For all we know, it could have been hands-down the worst in the series had Nintendo did anything more with it. :P

Anyways, as a whole, I think the Zelda series may be too aware of the expectations placed in front of it with each and every installment. It's starting to seem like a lot of fans have ALttP and/or OoT ingrained into their vision of the series so strongly, it'd be hard for Nintendo to "fix" the series, no matter what it does. Wind Waker got knocked solely because of its unique and well-executed visual style, while Skyward Sword's controls seemed to have turned a lot of people off, despite the fact that they actually worked. It's not like Nintendo hasn't tried for the most part (I still believe Twilight Princess served as little OoT fanservice, though), but it appears that the changes have been unwelcome to a lot of the series' enthusiasts.

Maybe it's because I don't hold the series in the super-high regard some of my fellow gamers do, but I'd like to know what exactly is "wrong" with the series. It may have its ups and downs, but that's to be expected for such a long-running series. I just think Nintendo needs to let go and continue to find ways to make the series 'fun,' similar to how it tends to handle most Super Mario games.

So what is wrong with zelda?

[QUOTE="Shattered-dream"]

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

Just curious, but how did you conclude that a tech demo trailer would be a "better" Zelda game? For all we know, it could have been hands-down the worst in the series had Nintendo did anything more with it. :P

Anyways, as a whole, I think the Zelda series may be too aware of the expectations placed in front of it with each and every installment. It's starting to seem like a lot of fans have ALttP and/or OoT ingrained into their vision of the series so strongly, it'd be hard for Nintendo to "fix" the series, no matter what it does. Wind Waker got knocked solely because of its unique and well-executed visual style, while Skyward Sword's controls seemed to have turned a lot of people off, despite the fact that they actually worked. It's not like Nintendo hasn't tried for the most part (I still believe Twilight Princess served as little OoT fanservice, though), but it appears that the changes have been unwelcome to a lot of the series' enthusiasts.

Maybe it's because I don't hold the series in the super-high regard some of my fellow gamers do, but I'd like to know what exactly is "wrong" with the series. It may have its ups and downs, but that's to be expected for such a long-running series. I just think Nintendo needs to let go and continue to find ways to make the series 'fun,' similar to how it tends to handle most Super Mario games.

 

goblaa

So what is wrong with zelda?

Ok you ask then allow me to tell you!

 nintendo seems like they are making them easy, and they are messing up the story not only that the DS ones was a big joke. Tp was nothing compared to the old either was SS if you disagree look at scores. Game informer said spirit tracks was the worst Zelda game of all time, and I have to agree if it was as bad the PHG for the DS that is I never bought the other one. G4 X play said SS was the worst 3d Zelda game to date i have to agree.I think Nintendo when it comes to Zelda have lost their touch!

Call me crazy, but an open-worlded Zelda that didn't follow the same formulaic "get this and go to that dungeon" structure would go a long ways to making Zelda fresh again. The one thing I HATED about Skyward Sword was the wasted potential. So much world undernearth the cloud barrier and you couldn't explore it. You got three regions to explore, and ... ugh... they had you backtrack through them again! THAT needs to stop right there. No more backtracking. Backtracking is the weakest form of game development and it stifles creative experiences. If Nintendo wants to continue to be heralded as an innovative game maker, that's the first obstacle they can tackle, and they can start with Zelda. Oh, and no more patronizing partner that chirp incomprehensible jibberish in your ear whenever you pick up an item would help, too.JustPlainLucas

And yeah, Fi did get extremely annoying at times like when she kept continuously telling me that my health was low. She acted like a damn mom and treated Link as if he was handicapped. If Link is going to have another helper, I hope they won't have them making Link seem like an idiot. I thought out of all the "partners" that Link had, Tatl from Majora Mask was the least annoying. She actually had a personality and didn't try hand holding Link through his adventure. Midna wasn't bad either. But Fi was a step in the wrong direction as far as being a partner...

I don't think they need to "fix" anything, but I do think it's time for a "realistic" HD Zelda in that tech-demo vein.

The majority want a large, open-ended Zelda game with pretty and "dark" HD graphics and cool bosses and much less hand-holding.

The sales are proof of this as Skyward Sword sold relatively poorly given the large audience the Wii had.

They are remaking Wind Waker anyway so that should suffice for the "cartoon" Zelda.

The only really "bad" Zelda is 2. Even then it has its good parts. I think in the next installment they should make it less linear. That was truly the biggest disappointment from SS for me. That and the really tedious padding that the game didn't even attempt to hide. All that being said I think SS is still a good game. I like some of the dieas it brought to the series.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="goblaa"]I loved playing zelda on the DS with touch-only controls.Ever really watch someone play an older zelda like minish cap. You have to line yourself up with the d-pad exactly to attack. Most of your attacks just hit nothing but air because you're either a bit too far a way or too far left/right. In PH, you just tap and instant attack. It's wonderful.PH's controls bugged me a bit at first too, but after I beat it I played minish cap again and it just felt so clunky.Shattered-dream

[QUOTE="goblaa"]

[QUOTE="Shattered-dream"] I disagree with you man. The game looked hardcore like god of war.

Shattered-dream

So what is wrong with zelda?

Ok you ask then allow me to tell you!

nintendo seems like they are making them easy, and they are messing up the story not only that the DS ones was a big joke. Tp was nothing compared to the old either was SS if you disagree look at scores. Game informer said spirit tracks was the worst Zelda game of all time, and I have to agree if it was as bad the PHG for the DS that is I never bought the other one. G4 X play said SS was the worst 3d Zelda game to date i have to agree.I think Nintendo when it comes to Zelda have lost their touch!

You do know that anybody can make any game look good or bad if they just pick the reviews that support their own opinion and disregard the reviews that disagree with it. There were a large number of reviews that considered Skyward Sword the best Zelda since Ocarina of Time (IGN and Destructoid to name a couple).

[QUOTE="Shattered-dream"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] i'm sorry, but you really suck at playing zelda if you can't hit stuff with the (extremely wide) sword attacks. the effective range of the attacks is so large that if you can't hit them, then you can't hit a goomba in SMB either.BrunoBRS

The Zelda formula is still strong and for good reason. Nothing is necessarily wrong with it, however I would remove the informative sidekicks or at least give us the option to not hear their obvious remarks. And difficulty has scaled down significantly since LttP probably for the sake of a more grand appeal. However, Nintendo should give options in the Zelda franchise like the recent Fire Emblem (a casual mode where fallen comrades could still fight but veterans still had standard option of perma-death). In this case, a casual mode where the sidekick talks your ear off with handholding advice and a hardcore mode with little to no assistance and scaling up the difficulty. None of this "access to harder difficulties after you beat the game" like in Skyward Sword. Grand adventure games like this shouldn't be shy to give us difficulty options from the get-go.

People who say the DS ones was good is kissing Nintendos behind. Whether they want to agree or not it sucked!

Shattered-dream

"A fool always thinks he's right and the wise listen to others." A good quote I heard in church today. It applies here.

[QUOTE="BrunoBRS"][QUOTE="Shattered-dream"]
I'm not a fan of retarded controlls the game wasn't hard it was annoying to me. I found it as no fun. I could use the controls pretty good tho. So your opinion isn't debatable sorry chap.Shattered-dream

[QUOTE="Shattered-dream"][QUOTE="BrunoBRS"] i wasn't even directing it to you.BrunoBRS

What is wrong with you. Majora's Mask was the only bad Zelda. Skyward Sword was amazing. Its in my top 3. Ocarina is #1, Windwaker and Skyward Sword fight for the #2 spot.Master_Of_Fools

What is wrong with you! MM is also amazing. Granted it was a little hard to get into, but once you did, one of the best Zelda's out there.

[QUOTE="Master_Of_Fools"]What is wrong with you. Majora's Mask was the only bad Zelda. Skyward Sword was amazing. Its in my top 3. Ocarina is #1, Windwaker and Skyward Sword fight for the #2 spot.trugs26

What is wrong with you! MM is also amazing. Granted it was a little hard to get into, but once you did, one of the best Zelda's out there.

I agree amen man! Thank you I agree 100% MM was a 10 to me! People say it was too hard that is what made it so much fun. They don't make them like that anymore!

Ok you ask then allow me to tell you!

 nintendo seems like they are making them easy. Tp was nothing compared to the old either was SS if you disagree look at scores. 

Shattered-dream

Another generic "too easy." Look I've been circled this for many years now. It's become a meaningless argument. I've never heard say they quit playing Zelda because it got too easy. The franchise stopped being hard over a decade ago.

Look at the scores of TP and Skyward Sword eh?

Ok, the metacritic score of TP is 95, over 70 reviews. Skyward Sword? A metacritic score of 93. That's the 4th highest rated game of 2011 and highest rated Wii game that year. I'd say the "scores" argument is invalid.

I disagree with you man. The game looked hardcore like god of war.

Shattered-dream

And there's the real problem. You've determined the overall quality of the game solely because of its looks. Given the fact that you think the series needs fixing, don't you find that a bit premature to say? A trailer won't usually show broken controls, poorly executed mechanics, or game-killing bugs. This is especially true for a tech demo, which isn't really a game at all. :P

I asked that question expecting an answer much like you gave me, to be honest. If a "hardcore" tech-demo is what you think the series needs, we have been different definitions of 'fixing' a game.

[QUOTE="Master_Of_Fools"]What is wrong with you. Majora's Mask was the only bad Zelda. Skyward Sword was amazing. Its in my top 3. Ocarina is #1, Windwaker and Skyward Sword fight for the #2 spot.trugs26

What is wrong with you! MM is also amazing. Granted it is a little hard to get into, but once you do, it is the best Zelda out there.

I fixed your post for you.

[QUOTE="trugs26"]

[QUOTE="Master_Of_Fools"]What is wrong with you. Majora's Mask was the only bad Zelda. Skyward Sword was amazing. Its in my top 3. Ocarina is #1, Windwaker and Skyward Sword fight for the #2 spot.Shattered-dream

What is wrong with you! MM is also amazing. Granted it was a little hard to get into, but once you did, one of the best Zelda's out there.

I agree amen man! Thank you I agree 100% MM was a 10 to me! People say it was too hard that is what made it so much fun. They don't make them like that anymore!

MM is the only 10 I've ever given to a game. Naysayers be damned.

[QUOTE="trugs26"]

[QUOTE="Master_Of_Fools"]What is wrong with you. Majora's Mask was the only bad Zelda. Skyward Sword was amazing. Its in my top 3. Ocarina is #1, Windwaker and Skyward Sword fight for the #2 spot.Shattered-dream

What is wrong with you! MM is also amazing. Granted it was a little hard to get into, but once you did, one of the best Zelda's out there.

I agree amen man! Thank you I agree 100% MM was a 10 to me! People say it was too hard that is what made it so much fun. They don't make them like that anymore!

[QUOTE="Master_Of_Fools"]What is wrong with you. Majora's Mask was the only bad Zelda. Skyward Sword was amazing. Its in my top 3. Ocarina is #1, Windwaker and Skyward Sword fight for the #2 spot.Shattered-dream

[QUOTE="JustPlainLucas"]Call me crazy, but an open-worlded Zelda that didn't follow the same formulaic "get this and go to that dungeon" structure would go a long ways to making Zelda fresh again. The one thing I HATED about Skyward Sword was the wasted potential. So much world undernearth the cloud barrier and you couldn't explore it. You got three regions to explore, and ... ugh... they had you backtrack through them again! THAT needs to stop right there. No more backtracking. Backtracking is the weakest form of game development and it stifles creative experiences. If Nintendo wants to continue to be heralded as an innovative game maker, that's the first obstacle they can tackle, and they can start with Zelda. Oh, and no more patronizing partner that chirp incomprehensible jibberish in your ear whenever you pick up an item would help, too.Shattered-dream

[QUOTE="Master_Of_Fools"]What is wrong with you. Majora's Mask was the only bad Zelda. Skyward Sword was amazing. Its in my top 3. Ocarina is #1, Windwaker and Skyward Sword fight for the #2 spot.trugs26

[QUOTE="trugs26"][QUOTE="Master_Of_Fools"]What is wrong with you. Majora's Mask was the only bad Zelda. Skyward Sword was amazing. Its in my top 3. Ocarina is #1, Windwaker and Skyward Sword fight for the #2 spot.Master_Of_Fools

You understand that the point of the game is to repeat the same 3 days and do different tasks in those days? Not to beat the game within that time limit? You can beat the game "at your own pace." The only way the game forces you out of that is by having different people at different places and the majority of those situations was in the sidequests, all of which were optional.

[QUOTE="Master_Of_Fools"]

[QUOTE="trugs26"]What is wrong with you! MM is also amazing. Granted it was a little hard to get into, but once you did, one of the best Zelda's out there.turtlethetaffer

You understand that the point of the game is to repeat the same 3 days and do different tasks in those days? Not to beat the game within that time limit? You can beat the game "at your own pace." The only way the game forces you out of that is by having different people at different places and the majority of those situations was in the sidequests, all of which were optional.

I always did a dungeon one 3 day cycle then do some side-quests the next 3 day cycle.

[QUOTE="turtlethetaffer"]

[QUOTE="Master_Of_Fools"]

Hard? That wasnt the issue. ANY game that makes me rush is an instant game breaking mechanic for me. I like taking my time and going at my own pace. MM is my least favorite Zelda game for that sole reason. I never even finished the game. My top 3 is Ocarina is #1, Windwaker is #2, Skyward Sword is #3.

Nintendo_Ownes7

You understand that the point of the game is to repeat the same 3 days and do different tasks in those days? Not to beat the game within that time limit? You can beat the game "at your own pace." The only way the game forces you out of that is by having different people at different places and the majority of those situations was in the sidequests, all of which were optional.

I always did a dungeon one 3 day cycle then do some side-quests the next 3 day cycle.

Exactly. Apparently these ideas are lost on some people.

[QUOTE="trugs26"][QUOTE="Master_Of_Fools"]What is wrong with you. Majora's Mask was the only bad Zelda. Skyward Sword was amazing. Its in my top 3. Ocarina is #1, Windwaker and Skyward Sword fight for the #2 spot.Master_Of_Fools

[QUOTE="Master_Of_Fools"]

[QUOTE="trugs26"]What is wrong with you! MM is also amazing. Granted it was a little hard to get into, but once you did, one of the best Zelda's out there.turtlethetaffer

You understand that the point of the game is to repeat the same 3 days and do different tasks in those days? Not to beat the game within that time limit? You can beat the game "at your own pace." The only way the game forces you out of that is by having different people at different places and the majority of those situations was in the sidequests, all of which were optional.